PDA

View Full Version : Potion of Strength and Monstrous Mounts...



Draconian77
22-12-2008, 20:14
In the new Dark Elf book the potion of Strength grants the model +3 Strength.

The BrB says that a character on a mounstrous mount is considered one model.

So, is it actually legal to make your Dragon S9 or your Maticore S8...

theunwantedbeing
22-12-2008, 20:29
Model = bearer in almost all cases.
Although untill an FAQ, you can abuse this by getting a st9 dragon at tournamets :P

nosferatu1001
22-12-2008, 20:53
Except in the WoC thread where it was determined "model" == model.

SO you either have model == bearer, or not

Draconian77
22-12-2008, 21:03
Yes, I must confess that it was the WoC Mark thread which first alerted me to this, em, "problem."

So...it's legal but not obviously not RAI right?

In which case don't be surprised to see it at a tournament...

decker_cky
22-12-2008, 22:19
A magic item or special rule has to specify whether it affects the mount as per the main FAQ. Check the second question under Miscellaneous here:
http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m470856_Warhammer_FAQ_2008-02_Edition.pdf

Talash
22-12-2008, 23:22
A magic item or special rule has to specify whether it affects the mount as per the main FAQ. Check the second question under Miscellaneous here:
http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m470856_Warhammer_FAQ_2008-02_Edition.pdf

Actually, no. It only discusses special rules and ward saves that the character might have, not magical items. In fact, when it mentions magical items in the last part of the answer it states that there are some exceptions, such as when the item specifies otherwise. And the item in question (apparently, I havent the DE army book to hand) grants the model +3 Strength, which means the whole model, character and mount.

Crazy Harborc
23-12-2008, 00:31
Oh great. IF a DE hero on a Dragon/whatever.....if the rider drinks a potion it also effects his mount which did not drink the potion.

Thurizdan
23-12-2008, 04:52
Anybody who smugly announces to me that they have a S9 dragon is going to be very unpopular. Said dragon might "accidentally" fall of the table. As if a dragon actually needs S9 anyway.

This is like last edition DE where some kiddies claimed that Assassins could use magic items from any book. Yes, I said, you're correct, there isn't a comma there, congratulations, you've won your petty little victory, now stop being such a pointless squit and learn to play the game.

Draconian77
23-12-2008, 05:25
Ah, I can imagine it now...

"Come here Buttercup(An irate Black Dragon...), time for your shots!"

Hehe, I shouldn't have brought this question up but it is an amusing image.

Condottiere
23-12-2008, 05:39
At a minimum, the intent must be for the character to drink the potion; it's similar to the HE healing potion, in that wouldn't it make sense to dope their star dragons, potentially 11 wounds?

Neckutter
23-12-2008, 07:48
At a minimum, the intent must be for the character to drink the potion; it's similar to the HE healing potion, in that wouldn't it make sense to dope their star dragons, potentially 11 wounds?

Mr. High Elf says "if a DE can drink a potion, i can drink a potion"

but yeah, if some DE player said this to me, i would laugh at his face and not let him do it. and if the tournament judge agreed with the DE player, i would smash the DE player's models and go home.(and hope the DE player throws a punch)

Cambion Daystar
23-12-2008, 08:19
Mr. High Elf says "if a DE can drink a potion, i can drink a potion"

but yeah, if some DE player said this to me, i would laugh at his face and not let him do it. and if the tournament judge agreed with the DE player, i would smash the DE player's models and go home.(and hope the DE player throws a punch)

Yes, it definately shows who of the 2 is acting childish then...

Just let the dragon have his energydrink. :)

blindingdark
23-12-2008, 10:37
This thread is appalling in its abuse of common sense.

It is the Rider / Character that buys and drinks the potion, not the dragon.

(Dragon Rider) open wide my friend, this will make you stronger....
(Dragon) RRRRAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGHHHHHHHHHHH
(Dragon Rider) is that a yes ?

Djekar
23-12-2008, 11:37
Abusing common sense is what makes it so great!

Cambion Daystar
23-12-2008, 13:30
This thread is appalling in its abuse of common sense.

It is the Rider / Character that buys and drinks the potion, not the dragon.

(Dragon Rider) open wide my friend, this will make you stronger....
(Dragon) RRRRAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGHHHHHHHHHHH
(Dragon Rider) is that a yes ?

Please stop trying to use common sense with warhammer. It will only lead to a broken heart.

blindingdark
23-12-2008, 13:35
Lol, perhaps. but seriously, come on now. A feeble elf with a potion of strength, (who, on an average day, struggles to pull his own boots off) is not gonna share it with a dragon that can shatter mountains with a flick of its tail !

This is just plain abuse ! (of the rules.)

There are registers for people like this.

@Djekar - possibly the best sig ive ever seen. kudos.

r019nd
23-12-2008, 14:47
The errata talks about "being able to hit character and mount separately" as determining whether the mount gains the abilities.

So any mount that can't be hit separately eg. cold ones / dark-steed would benefit from these rules. Not as good as a str 9 dragon, but against any enemy an additional s7 cold one attack is still a nice bonus.

The errata also specifically mentions magic items, so the s9 dragon would be out.

nosferatu1001
23-12-2008, 18:11
Which would also mean presumably that Characts on Dragon / etc with MoN would not get any benefit from it?

Neckutter
23-12-2008, 19:44
Yes, it definately shows who of the 2 is acting childish then...

Just let the dragon have his energydrink. :)

have you been to any tournaments? i see 30 year old men act like kids ALL THE TIME.
and if someone wants to abuse the rules and blatantly cheat me, then i will make it so he cant play in another game in the tourney, since i will smash his models. yes, i will. i hate it when opponents read a passage in the BRB a certain way that gives them an advantage. some people rub me the wrong way, and i hardly ever win sportsmanship. but then again there are some people who deliberatly like to read into rules to give them unfair advantages. then again, if you are correct i will cede the argument to you in an instant and have no hard feelings. our gaming group are rules-lawyers and we get along fine. if it is in the rules, then its in the rules.

@dj is that a quote from nosferatu about how the casket of souls FAQ goes against RAW? it probably is.

nosferatu1001
23-12-2008, 23:39
I have to agree with Neckutter - I have seen some really, really childish behaviour from people, and not just the usual "accidentally" moving 11 inches instead of 10....

The sig is not about that; it was an attempt to explain that, if a rule doesn't apply to you, then the content of the rule doesnt actually matter - nothing in it effects you so why even read it? HOwever in his infinite wisdom and "humour" dj decided to sig it completely out of context, and without responding to the point....but it was all i expected really.

However the casket of souls faq really, really made no sense. Like a lot of FAQs recently!

Ganymede
24-12-2008, 00:42
Q. Do ward saves and other special rules that apply to a
character (including those coming from a magic item or
spell) also apply to the monster/chariot it is riding?
A. Because the rider and mount can be hit separately, any
saves and other special rules of the character (including
those from magic items, spells, etc.) are not passed to its
mount, and viceversa. There are a few exceptions to this
rule however, when such rules do apply to both rider and
mount: Psychology rules (see rule book, page 79), rules
that the character would confer to a unit it joins (like
Magic Resistance), or if the rule itself specifies otherwise
(certain magic items, the Blessing of the Lady, etc.).


I think this FAQ answer gives us a solid way to decide on whether or not you can give the potion of strength to a dragon. Not everyone agrees with me on this, but they're probably just being contrarian because they are bored.

Fellblade
24-12-2008, 02:29
This thread is appalling in its abuse of common sense.
Welcome to Warhammer Fantasy Battles 7th Edition, where common sense is thrown out the window so we can play Herohammer.

Sadly, yes. If the book says "The model gains +3 str" then by following the rules it applies to the dragon too. Of course, I have no doubt in my mind this is NOT the intent of the rule. Its a little like when a Ratling gun rolls double 5s or 6s and the rulebook says the crew is torn to pieces but it never says to remove the model (note, the warpfire thrower does specific the model is removed on its misfires.
Wait for the errata, and if that doesn't solve the problem, just quit playing against people who try to use it that way.

@Ganymede: While I totally agree with you, I can't count how many times people like to point out the disclaimer ('http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?community=&catId=cat410004&categoryId=1000018&aId=3000006') on the FAQs vs the Errata. "The FAQs on the other hand are very much 'soft' material. They deal with more of a grey area, where often there is no right and wrong answer - in a way, they are our own 'Studio House Rules' "
The argument is anything labeled FAQ is unoffical because otherwise it would have been printed in the errata. (yeah, I know... just don't shoot the messenger)

Ganymede
24-12-2008, 02:48
@Ganymede: While I totally agree with you, I can't count how many times people like to point out the disclaimeron the FAQs vs the Errata.

Take solace in the fact that the vast majority of Tournaments use the GW FAQ as a suppliment to the rules. Sure, some people can throw that back at you. If they do, simply call a judge over and they'll be thoroughly schooled.

blindingdark
24-12-2008, 11:26
Sadly, yes. If the book says "The model gains +3 str" then by following the rules it applies to the dragon too

So.... i have a lord on a mount with a weapon that states the Model does d6 wounds. Are you saying that the mount benefits from this also ?

I think the distinction between, Model and Model carrying / using needs to be made. In the case of the potion, it should be read as Model carrying / using, that being the lord himself rather than the entire peice.

you could argue that the lord IS a seperate model from the dragon, as one is purchased after the other. The only exception being HE dragon mages