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squeekenator
22-12-2008, 23:24
Is it any good?

Gazak Blacktoof
23-12-2008, 10:22
Most of looks good and the rules seem well written.

I don't play 40K any more so my comments might not prove particularly helpful.

I like the gauss rule alterations, from what I've read on the forums the problem with gauss as it stands is that it can't get a good glance result and +1 helps that. The +1 also makes heavy destroyers more brutal.

Following on from that you've improved the heavy destroyer's gun massively. I'm not sure if its too good, as I said I don't play 40K any more so this might be appropriate these days.

WBB might be a bit too good with these rules, it appears the restrictions regarding surviving models have gone, which enables a bit more freedom of choice with regards to force composition. However it appears that its going to be almost impossible to wipe out a squad, the models will go down and then half the squad (or more) will reappear and there's nothing that can be done to prevent this. Wiping out a squad will be purely based on luck (the new phase out rule appears to prevent most sweeping advances from happening).

What happens to units that are still in reserves at the end of the game (because they've phased out)? Do they award VPs/ KPs? This might be part of the 40K 5th edition rules, if not it needs to be addressed.

The monolith is much morevulnerable, particularly in close combat. Monstrous creatures and power fist armed assault squads would probably make it a liability.

I was about to say that a second attack wont have fixed the pariah but you appear to have eased the restrictions on teleporting them (if I'm reading your rules correctly) they'll now be a very scary unit.

I'm not so sure that wraiths should get phasing weapons as this overlaps with the pariahs too much and might make them redundant again.

The obelisk seems quite costly to me and its very different from the epic version, which is highly mobile rather than immobile. I do like the idea of deep striking portals though and its an idea I've toyed with for our own home brew 40K rules. Perhaps separating the two unit types might be a good idea- producing immobile spatial portals and separate particle whip obelisks.

Have you tried these rules yet?

squeekenator
23-12-2008, 10:46
Yeah, the WBB-Phase Out buffs probably do make Necrons too unkillable, I'm going to have to think of some way to nerf their survivability.

I'm pretty sure the basic rules state that a model still in reserves at the end of the game counts as destroyed.

Wraith phase claws don't really overlap with Pariahs. Pariahs are more of a frontline combat unit that kicks ass and doesn't get kicked back, whereas Wraiths are fast assault units that hit something and kill it stone dead, but die from a single volley of shots.

The Obelisk is based on the Dawn of War version.

I haven't playtested yet, but I'm going to go on a week-long holiday with nothing to do but chill out, so I'll probably do some then.

marv335
23-12-2008, 11:18
No.
Just No.
160pts gets you a lord that has I10 and allows no saves of any kind.
The chronometron needs to be a lot more expensive if you're going to keep doubling I

robtheguru
23-12-2008, 13:05
Most broken fandex I have ever read, explanation of why coming soon...

-We'll be back no longer requires a like unit within 6" and can always be taken. I'm sorry, but I think if you get hit by a meltagun, there won't be much left to reform.
-Gauss weapon I agree with.
-Phase out is absolutely rediculous.
-Portals should be confined to the Monolith.
-HEAVY 2 ON A S9 AP2 GUN?!?!?!?!?!?! ARE YOU HIGH?!
-Chronometron is just overpowered. Drop double initiative and it'd be fine.
-Lightning Field should only affect the Lord.
-Res Orb is stupidly overpowered.
-Nightmare shroud, again, overpowered. Have it as a one use item or drop it all together.
-Tomb spider rules are stupid, see res orb! It pretty much means that if you have a 2 Lords with Res Orb and 6 spiders, you can auto res between 11 and 30 Necrons no matter what has shot them. Absolutely stupid! Also, PHYLACTERY?! WTF?!
-I like the idea of Obelisks, but deepstriking, no!
-I4 on Scarabs? Again, ARE YOU HIGH?! Keep at I3.
-Finall the Monolith, i like the fact that it no longer ignores powerfists, meltas etc. Along with Gauss weapon, the only thing i fully agree with.


I'm sorry to be harsh, i haven't slept in 28 hours and that was so bad, it annoyed me.

squeekenator
23-12-2008, 18:48
Ouch.


-We'll be back no longer requires a like unit within 6" and can always be taken. I'm sorry, but I think if you get hit by a meltagun, there won't be much left to reform.

Second paragraph of the We'll Be Back rule. Same restrictions as Feel No Pain. Requiring someone near you for moral support never made sense anyway.


-Phase out is absolutely rediculous.

True, it does need some sort of nerf. Any suggestions?


-Portals should be confined to the Monolith.

Why? Magical teleportation tricks are a very Necrony thing, and in DoW you can teleport to Obelisks just like you can teleport to Monoliths. I'm trying to make Necrons a mobile and skill-requiring race without actually increasing their speed, and teleportation seemed like a good idea.


-HEAVY 2 ON A S9 AP2 GUN?!?!?!?!?!?! ARE YOU HIGH?!

Not at all. It's 70pts for two fairly fragile lascannons. Heavy Destroyers are rather underwhelming right now, this gives them the oomph you'd expect the anti-tank specialists of a Necron army to have.


-Chronometron is just overpowered. Drop double initiative and it'd be fine.

Yeah, I guess, although I'd prefer a price hike instead. Would 40-50pts be better for it?


-Lightning Field should only affect the Lord.

It affects the entire squad in the actual codex, does it not? Why should it be weaker?


-Res Orb is stupidly overpowered.




-Nightmare shroud, again, overpowered. Have it as a one use item or drop it all together.

Probably. I didn't think about that one at all, I just needed an effect so I invented one. I don't much like nightmare shrouds. Anyway, yeah, one use sounds like a good idea.


-Tomb spider rules are stupid, see res orb! It pretty much means that if you have a 2 Lords with Res Orb and 6 spiders, you can auto res between 11 and 30 Necrons no matter what has shot them. Absolutely stupid! Also, PHYLACTERY?! WTF?!

True, I didn't consider the effects of stacking them all up like that. Could be tricky to get around that sort of tactic. However, you still can't bring back a model that got instant-killed or whatever. They need be down, and a model that doesn't get WBB is just removed. And what about the phylactery?


-I like the idea of Obelisks, but deepstriking, no!

Why not? Otherwise they can't get anywhere outside your deployment zone, and a portal there isn't really going to do much at all.


-I4 on Scarabs? Again, ARE YOU HIGH?! Keep at I3.

What's so bad about it? It's not like they're going to be flying around and slaughtering Marines just because they strike at the same time.

marv335
23-12-2008, 21:02
If the chronometron is going to cost any less than 100 pts, it'll need to either effect only the lord, or drop the double I.
Personally I'd make it do this;
Chronometron
The lord and attached squad may not be caught by a sweeping advance if they fail a Ld test in close combat. Instead they automatically perform a hit and run move

ehlijen
24-12-2008, 03:50
I disagree on the Gauss. Bringing back the old glancing table for crons is just going to make them spam gauss blasters and cannons in lieu of heavy gauss' even more in this edition. How about, all gauss weapons benefit from the Tank Hunter USR?

Suggestion for phase out:
After making the decision to phase out, you still roll the test. If failed, apply the usual consequences for failure instead of pahsing out.

2 shots heavy gauss aren't the fix heavy destroyers need. I'd much rather give them 2 wounds instead.

No I doubling on the chronometron or make it cost a whole (whole!) lot more.

Resurection Orb is just too good. How about: the squad he joined gains +1 to all WBB rolls? Or maybe squads within 6"?
Side note: the whole WBB thing should be scrapped for something that doesn't penalise saturation fire in any case I say, but you seem to want to stick with the old one, so I'll try to stay within that
Nightmare shroud+veil is basically the old droppoding FatD ezekiel everyone hated the 4th ed marines for. At the price given it should be one use only.

Gaze: For some reason I don't see how a scary face is going to affect people hiding behind a tree. I'd say defensive grenades only, but that's just me. This isn't broken as is I think.

I'd not give the lord both a warscythe and a blaster. It was a simple bash or shoot choice before, now it's a do both but how much do you want to spend choice. And that always results in 'either it costs too much or everyone buys it' situations.

And while I can see why you'd want a skill increase for lords, I always liked how all necrons were equally skilled but just had different physcical bodies. By adding skill varieties I feel like they're loosing something. Not sure if that's good or bad though.

The pariah lord cannot use Phylacteries but can still take them? I think a pariah should not get access to any WBB related gear, nor the veil. He should also need to pay even more more for the shroud as it would benefit from his abomination rule.

Are 2 tomb spyders a single unit? Your entry doesn't say. Repair is too powerful, unless it somehow becomes random as to which ones get to pass automatically.
The swarms should either not be d3 per attempt or not fly off alone. The potential is just too great, especially as the tomb spyder doesn't seem to have to give up any actions for it. I'm not too fond of the move to elites either, but meh.

Add a line that either flayed ones can't be the compusory troops choices or that they are only troops if a flayed lord is present. The baseline necron should still be the unyielding legions of warriors.

Wraiths: once again, I don't think there should be skill variances within the necron ranks. Also you gave them +2 WS and an extra attack (2 weapons) and rending and then reduced their cost? They were allright units to begin with but now they're just a bit too good. They're genestealers on crack. And more. Make rending an upgrade instead of the phase claw one.

Obelisk: Living metal is too good. Ignore stun and shake and never loose your gun? The ignoring bit is already very good and should add quite a bit to the cost, but autoreparing things is just furstrating for the opponent. Leave out the repair bit and it could be ok, though the weapons on offer should both increas a lot in cost for this thing. Less than 150 points and I get to more or less shoot everything on the board at once? Yes please (says the beardlord)!

You do realise that there are armies that cannot deal with these new scarabs? The only hope guardsmen had was actually hitting them more often then they get hit in return. But now +1 A, +1WS and +2I I might as well just take off the squad. And why don't they have the swarm/vulnerable to blasts special rule anymore?

Heavy destroyes should have 2 wounds but stick to their 1 shot weapon. They are tank hunters, not terminator slayers.

'liht: for the extra 30 points you've now made it more or less immune to all vehicle damage results apart from 'destroyed', including every single glancing hit result. Why not make living metal just give a 4+ invul save to the vehicle and leave it at that?