View Full Version : Bretonnians or Lizardmen... which one stands a better chance against VC?

25-12-2008, 02:30
New player here, and I'm trying to get into WFB. My friend has tons of fantasy models that he is willing to sell me for very cheap, but I'm not sure what I should go for. He probably has about 1500 points of both Bretonnians and Lizardmen that I saw.

My paygroup consists of 5 VC players and a WE list, so I'd like to field an army that will hopefully cause them to mix it up a bit and stop with what seems to be a FotM army.

I like both LM and Bretonnians equally from an asthetic and fluff perspective, so my choice is pretty much comming down to whatever list can bring the beating to VC.

If anyone can think of another army that fares better then those two against VC, I'm all ears :) . Just from the asthetic perspective, I could see playing anything (with the exception of daemons, not much of a fan).


25-12-2008, 03:07
Against VC, Lizardmen have a far better chance than Brets. On top of that, there is a new Lizardmen book out in just a little over one month. So I think Lizardmen is your best bet.

To be honest though, if you want to make your Warhammer experience worthwhile then you cant have 5 out of 8 gamers in your group playing one army. I would advise trying to get more of yours mates into the game.

25-12-2008, 10:03
I personally would go for lizardmen. With a new book they should be pretty strong and with the cold blooded rule have a good chance holding against vampire counts blocks. Furthermore if your expanding the army, getting a slann would be a good idea meaning you would have a strong magig offense/defense.
Finally from how I see it a bretonian army isnt as varied as a lizardmen army and often relies on the same tactic... charge, and against big unbreakable blocks can be difficult to pull of. Whereas with a lizardmen army you can have mass infantry blocks, lots of skirmish, big monsters,heavy magic and everything in between so persoanlly I would go for the lizzies.

27-12-2008, 01:42
Thanks for the advice.

Is there an army thats better at countering VC then the two I mentioned? There were more models he has for sale other then just brets and LM.

27-12-2008, 02:03
daemons of chaos would beat VC any day of the week. get a bloodthirster, and hunt down that vampire general. but then again, it is super boring to always cause 5 wounds, no armor save, and the 3-wound vamp only gets a 4+ ward save.

EDIT: oh, and i vote for lizards too. lots of tactical flexability. you can tailor your list to do a lot of different things.

28-12-2008, 00:01
lizzies definitely cos cold blooded really helps with pyscology

28-12-2008, 03:00
High Elves can do a decent job at it as well, as long as you take a solid magic phase.

28-12-2008, 21:56
In the Bretonnians defence here, they can use Grail Knights and Knight Errant, both of which can charge without needing to worry about psychology. Along with a Grail Knight hero in each unit (dolling out magical attacks against ghostly units) and the ability to target the more obvious threats (characters), these units can do a decent job of tearing through blocks of infantry, which make up the bulk of the enemy in the first place.

29-12-2008, 00:36
The issue with Brets vs Vamps is that the Brets almost invariably rely on breaking enemies on the charge. It's sort of their thing. Vampires don't run. You might crumble a unit, if you hit it hard enough and roll well, but it's by no means assured. If even one ghoul or skeleton or whatever is left standing after CR, the charging Bret unit is likely to be wiped out or at least completely bogged down.

Lizards are much more flexible, and given the nasty things that it looks like Slann will be able to do to enemy casters in the new edition... well, they'll be okay.

Others that do well against Vamps: Daemons, as mentioned. Anything else will survive, as long as you put in some fear-immune units and good magic defense. Items such as the lizzies' Cube of Darkness can really mess with a Vamp general's day.

Spiney Norman
30-12-2008, 00:31
Out of the two I'll go for Lizards any day of the week. Bretonnians are possibly the worst match for undead as once their charge is spent they'll be lucky to do much damage at all. I'm not sure its even possible for a Lance formation to destroy a 20 strong undead unit on the charge, I suspect it isn't since they'd need to do about 10 casualties (well a very lucky unit of grail knights might manage it).

The problem is that Bets struggle to do casualties after the initial charge and if even one model is left standing in the undead unit it can be raised back in the VC magic phase.

Psychology will also really hurt Bret units far more than Lizardmen.

I'd recommend going all out with Lizards since VC aren't the friendliest army to play anyway. A 2nd Gen Slann will be able to create serious problems if it gets drain magic off, stick him in a unit of Tlaxcotl/quetzl saurus to protect against the psychology problem, aside from blood nights there probably isn't a VC unit that could break a large Tlaxcotl/quezlt saurus block on its own.

The other way to do it would be to take the totem of prophecy and a unit of temple guard, but you'll be sinking well over half the points of your army into a single unit.