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View Full Version : How to Beat Daemons with VC



Whitesox
25-12-2008, 23:48
Right i was wondering how people who play VC deal with a heavy tzeetch flamer list backed up with flesh hounds, plaugebearers and herald???

The flamers are killing my etherals, my zombies die in a matter of seconds and the only thing which lasts is generally my grave guard and they end up getting attacked from all sides..

I cant whittle the daemons down with shooting and they rip me apart in hth...

has anyone got any advice for a VC player against the daemons?

Lennart.nevanoja
26-12-2008, 01:25
hello,
take the fight to the deamons dont let them chose which fights they gonna battle, cavalery is the **** for this. have you tested the first turn charge on them, four vampies and a lord with frost blade infinit hatred and red fury is nice for those big deamons and with the three other vamps you gonna pick the fights with you flying the first thing you gonna charge is the flames to kill them and then the big thing. its importent that you have black knights with this army because you gonna screw your self over if you let your vamps hang dry in the open. have some scrolls !!

Neckutter
26-12-2008, 03:00
generally when you play VC, you go magic heavy, or at least magic-medium. this is how you beat daemons. while i have only drawn daemons, ive not lost to daemons in a while. my list can generally pull out a draw, or a win by 200pts(still a draw). the person i play with has his army looking something like this:

thirster
10 plaguebearers
14 plaguebearers, standard
14 plaguebearers, standard
5 fleshhounds
3 plaguebeasts
6 flamers
2 nurgle heros, both lvl 1 wizards, one of which is the -2 to cast banner BSB, slime trail and noxious vapours on both.


the key to VC is that you dont die. the -2 to cast banner DOES NOT affect invocation, as it isnt in the lore of the vampires. therefore you need to spam that spell with 2 dice per casting and make sure you bump up your units to 25+(with skeleton or ghoul mastry), then make sure you lord always has vanhel's(the bloodline power) and make sure he spams that spell over and over.

with all the movement and attrition you should always be able to draw it out. HOWEVER beware of the thirster doing a kamikazee on your general. the main reason i cant win is because my army has nothing in it to beat the bloodthirster. it lines up on my flank, and then i cant stop it from charging my flank. since he is a large target, he can see ANY of my flanks and he gets to choose which one he wants to charge. if my opponent DIDNT have a thirster it would be a lot better. even if he just had a kepper of secrets. it would still be a TON better. anyways, if you play daemons, your cairn wraiths are basically garbage. just try NOT to get them into HtH, unless it is a pivotable part in the game.

my army list for VC:
vamp lord, lvl 4, knows all spells, ghouls march b4 game, 4+ stupidity ward, 3 power stones, -1 save generic weapon.
vamp hero, lvl 2, ghoul mastery
vamp hero, lvl 2, ghoul mastery
vamp hero, lvl 2, ghoul mastery, book of arkhan

19 ghouls, champ
19 ghouls, champ
19 ghouls, champ
23 grave guard, full comm, hatred banner, GWs
2 corpse carts
4 wraiths, 1 banshee

xacatecas
29-12-2008, 18:11
i agree with lenn, go to him, get enough vanhel's that you can get the charges. a thirster can only charge where it can fit, so tight formation and let him hit a big unit with a champion and leave him there forever.

don't bother with ethereals, go for more knights, flamers don't really hurt BK.

with magic i'm mixed, either go for a lot and take a staff of sorc and skull staff, +2 to dispel or forget it and take combat and hunt mages.

and well zombies can't stand up to much which does any sort of damage so either expect them to vanish - i.e. use them to redirect, or take units of 40 or more!

theunwantedbeing
29-12-2008, 18:36
Black knights.

Ethereals beat msot units as most unit cant harm them.
However daemons are the exception, specifically flamers who tend to utterly maul your crappy t3 ethereal stuff with their magical attacks.

Blood knights are particularly useful, as daemons can't flee, so bait tactics are somewhat more difficult for daemons. Meaning your blood knights are unlikely to be put into a bad position.

Corpse carts are useful, dont bother with upgrades.
Just use them for the ASF bound spell.
Skeleton spearmen going before things like...flesh hounds will actually stand a half decent chance at killing 1 of them, rather than being mauled to death if they strike last.

3 ranks, standard, outnumber...a wound perhaps.
5 flesh hounds will deal you 6 wounds.
So you win by 1..not great deal but they're then taking a break test at -1 and if they roll a high number they suffer a lot of wounds.

Numbers and lots of units works best. The typical 4 character "I refuse to spend anything less than 50% of my army on chracters" nonsense doesnt work vs daemons very well.
You want lots and lots of troops.

1 lord, loads of troops.
2 small units of blood knights to help the army march.
Bunch of corpse carts and presto....daemon killer list.

darkelves99
29-12-2008, 22:24
two units of blood knights, if they get the charge idk what could possibly live through that.thats alot of points but 2 groups of five would be deadly.

fubukii
30-12-2008, 00:21
two units of blood knights, if they get the charge idk what could possibly live through that.thats alot of points but 2 groups of five would be deadly.

plaguebearers with a herald with vapors and palaquin, not only will they probaby kill a few prior to them striking... with the 5+ ward and 4+ regen they will bounce off most of the attacks

5 wide vs 5 wide
1 knight wont be in btb so he goes first
3 attacks, 2 hits, 1.666 wounds adfter ward and regen it goes down to .5 wounds.
2 horse attacks 1 hit .5 wounds .17 wounds after saves
so .667 wounds so ill say 1 dies
so then the herald fights 3 str 5 attacks, 1.5 hits 1 wound, then .5 after saves
6 Palaquin attacks, 1 should be posion so a auto wound, 2 regular hits for a total of 1.66 wounds counting posion .5 after the saves
3 attacks from plague bearers 1.5 hits, 1 wound .33 after saves

so 1.33 wounds to the unit

12 more knight attacks causing 2 wounds after saves and regen
then .66 wounds after saves from the mounts

so 3.16 cr from th knights
3 ranks banner outnumber + wounds from bearers :P

BattleofLund
30-12-2008, 01:33
... my VC opponent said he equipped his Black Knight unit with a magic banner (? I think) that gave them Flaming attacks. Conceivably this would do some good against Regenerating enemies if given to those Blood Keep Knights, right? Or is it too expensive? I don't VC myself.

EvC
30-12-2008, 02:20
I had a good game against Daemons today. Utterly pathetic army:
GUO, 3 Heralds on Palanquins, 2 Staffs, Sundering, 37 Plaguebearers, 18 Furies, 3 Nurglings. 1450 points in characters at 2250, made me sick (But then it was Nurgle). However, the thing you have to realise with these WAAC types, is that they play these styles often because they're not very good at the game. I had typically bad luck, rolled a double one to dispel a Staff shot on my Wraiths, which killed all 225 points of them in an instant. On top of that the Book of Arkhan ran out turn 1, and my Rod of Flaming Death (very handy against regenerators!) ran out the next time. But I killed his Sundering BSB (Wight King with Sword of Kings, bee-yoo-tiful), and penned him in (He was moving backwards on turn one- king of the lame!), and he gave up. My combat Lord didn't even get into combat, I was going to move him into my Skeleton unit with Hellfire Banner the next turn and

fubukii
30-12-2008, 02:43
yes there is a flaming banner, but the above user has the 4+ ward save vs shooting banner already and if he loses that his unit will get mangled by the lore of metal spell.

Kaleb
30-12-2008, 12:18
But I killed his Sundering BSB ... ... and he gave up.Wow. Giving up at the fitst sign of having to work for a victory...

Another knob hard at work demolishing the reputation of Daemon-players worldwide.