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View Full Version : Anti-WoC (Tzeentch/Slaanesh)



mossel
27-12-2008, 09:27
Tomorrow, I'll be facing a WoC army (2k) with my Dark Elves (infantry based, some RBTs, chariot and DR support). My opponent will play with a L4 Tzeentch mage on disc, 3 L2 Tzeentch mages on discs and 10 units of 5 Slaaneshi Marauder Horsemen with throwing axes or throwing spears. The heroes stick together (+1 to cast within 3" item) and pack a lot of magical punch (I've seen them getting their freak on once). The Horsemen harass and might eventually charge in after trying to draw me out of position.

Now my question is: what to do? I've got a balanced magical defence (5 DD + 2 scrolls + Ring of Hotek), which I hope can hold off most of the magical onslaught. I'd use my 2 mages to cast Chillwind on 2 different units of Horsemen and my Dark Riders and harpies to threaten some more. The Bolt Throwers will target more Horsemen, but if they could get a shot off, I'd take aim at the mages on disc (using single bolts).

My worry now is what to do with my 2 blocks of spearmen, my 2 chariots and my black guard...

My initial idea was to position them close together:
|coc||spears||BG||spears||coc|

I'd try to charge with the chariots if opportunity arises, or charge with the blocks if I can combine the charge with harpies charging (to make sure fleeing Horsemen will get caught).

Any tips y'all can give me?

Neknoh
27-12-2008, 09:35
The big thing to aim for is actually the sorceror carrying the skull, unless he is the sorceror lord, that sorceror will not have a better save than a 3+ armoursave and a 6+ wardsave, he should be your main priority, the Tzeentch Lore is nasty at +2 to cast.

Now, second priority should go to magicing the lot of them, one of them will have a 3+ ward against non-magical-attacks, this would most likely be the Lord (who'll also be fitted with a Spell Familliar and the regeneration crown) if you can bring flaming, magical shooting/attacks, do so.

Remember that although they are mean, sorcerors are STILL not meant for close combat, and a fleeing sorceror is not generating combat resolution, do not take them lightly, but charge them to chase them off.

bored1
27-12-2008, 18:12
basically, engage the mages ASAP. Use your RXB shooting to eliminate some of the horsemen. He'll be trying to magic off your BG, so the ring better be around there.

Artemis360
27-12-2008, 19:29
[QUOTE=Neknoh;3162057]The big thing to aim for is actually the sorceror carrying the skull, unless he is the sorceror lord, that sorceror will not have a better save than a 3+ armoursave and a 6+ wardsave... Now, second priority should go to magicing the lot of them, one of them will have a 3+ ward against non-magical-attacks.QUOTE]

They could also have a 3+ ward save vs shooting and magic missiles for 25 points. I wouldn't count on being able to bring them into combat either. If his horsemen are slaaneshi then they can't hurt that bad unless they get a bloody beautiful charge off. I'd say go hull-down, weather the magic as best you can and just blast anything you can with your own shooting. Tzeentch magic isn't all that bad, especially if you've got a fair amount of magic resistance and defence. The magic is a bit of a one trick pony, if it doesn't work out, his army will be a toothless tiger.

VVar
27-12-2008, 21:56
Put everything you've got within your RoH bubble.....it will make almost the entire tzeetch tree risky (excluding flickering flame of course). He would be crazy to try and cast infernal on 4-5 dice into that bubble

bork da basher
27-12-2008, 22:11
i play a trio of sorcerers on discs in my tzeentch army (lvls 4,2,2) and i'll tell you now if hes any good you wont get anywhere near them. he has the speed to avoid you and the firepower to elimiate 20+ units in a single turn so going after the mages with anything other than shooting will be futile, even in combat 4 sorcerers on discs would butcher a unit of harpies for example which is about all you have to catch them. count on them being well prepared for your shooting phase with 3+ saves and all with a ward save of 6+ but usually between 5 and 3+.

he'll target your shooting units with his sorcerers and proberly remove them as a threat by turn 2, 3 at latest, he can be on your flanks and thus out of your LoS more or less by the end of his first movement phase and be perfectly able to rain fire on these units while you sit there helpless. once they are defeated he'll sit behind your army marching blocking your blocks and fragging units at whim.

he'll use spells like treason of tzeentch on executioners or blackguard which with their high strength and low toughness will decimate you, he'll rob you of any leadership bonus from your general you may have with pandemonium and strike from every angle with numerous units of hard hitting fast cavalry, beat you, run you down and dance a little jig on your pointy eared corpses.

a all infantry list is begging to be crippled against superfast ultra magic tzeentch. i play the heavy cavalry version of this army with 4 units of knights, 3 units of horsemen and 4 units of hounds and its unbeaten in its maiden 6 games. your magical defense will do very little, he'll be packing 14 powerdice plus and your own mages cant compete. your scrolls will need to be saved for eternal gateway and treason of tzeentch more than anything and he can cast most of his spells effortlessly on 2 dice.

i dont know your army or how you play but hes going to run rings around you and there wont be much you can do to prevent him picking you apart and my sad prediction is defeat unless you can find a way to neautralise the sorcerers effectively.

mossel
27-12-2008, 22:53
not very hope-giving :p

I"ll try to stay inside the hotek bubble and count on my opponent's bad luck...
The sorcerers will attract most of my shooting, but I'll try to destroy as much of the marauders as possible. I simply cannot allow to stay in the same spot and just get slaughtered by his magic and shooting.

with a little luck, I will be able to withstand 2 turns of his magic without suffering that many casualties. In that time, I might outmanouver his sorcerers using as much of my faster elements as possible.

Let's hope luck is on my side and the dicegods are kind to me! I'll keep you posted on how it went...

scatterlaser
28-12-2008, 00:09
If you have the option, I'd go Black Guard-heavy (probably two units), stick the Ring of Hotek on somebody that won't die easily, sit your whole army in the Hotek-bubble and giggle as most of the Tzeentch magic is neutered:

- Infernal Gateway is almost certain to miscast if they use four dice on it, and it'll never be Irresistible (due to the Ring) so you'll always be able to scroll it.

- Call to Glory is also a miscast magnet as they'll really need three dice to cast it. It isn't very impressive anyway, and if they do cast it they're tying up a mage as it's Remains in Play.

- Treason of Tzeentch won't work on your Immune to Psych Black Guard, and even with +2 it won't be the most reliable thing ever if they only use 2d6 to cast it.

- Pandaemonium won't really affect your Ld9 Black Guard anyway, though it'll play havok with your offensive magic. You may want to try and stop this, but if you can't just don't cast for a turn. You probably won't be getting masses of magic past their 7 dispel dice plus scrolls anyway.

- Baleful Transmogrification also won't do a lot to your tanky Black Guard (oh no, you lose three models if you fail your Ld test with a 12).

- Flickering Fire is the one to stop, but they won't be able to use many dice to cast it due to the Ring. It'll be easily cast on 1d6, but then you should (hopefully) be able to stop it easily enough. Also remember that a natural 1 or 2 to cast always fails, so they can't cast it on a 2+.

Their miscasts won't hurt them a lot as they'll inevitably have the Infernal Puppet, but if they do miscast they're wasting their power dice. (If they somehow don't have the Puppet, even more giggling is in order.) Even if they force an Infernal Gateway through by modifying a miscast result up to a 12, you'll only have to suffer through it once before the spell vanishes.

In addition to the Black Guard, I'd take a few decent-sized units of Repeater Crossbows and some Repeater Bolt Throwers. Keep them all in Ring range and have fun gunning down Marauder Horsemen. Once you've cleared them out, you can go Mage-hunting. This whole thing might sound a bit tailored, but quite frankly anybody using an army consisting entirely of Tzeentch mages and Slaanesh Marauder Horsemen has no room to complain about lopsided army composition...

mossel
28-12-2008, 19:22
Well, things went rather well! I didn't have to play against the list... There were 2 battles in this mini-tournament. My first battle was against vampire counts, and thanks to an insane courage of one of my chariots, I was able to destroy my opponent's general before back-up could arrive! The exact situation will be poored into a battle report one of these days, but for the moment, I can be short: massacre for me!

The chaos list came up against dwarfs and Maarten (the chaos player) rolled a few horrible saves, so lost 2 mages in the second turn, and his lord was forced to flee because of a Master Rune of Challenge and didn't rally, so flew of the table...


My second battle was against these dwarfs, and Tim and I had a great battle, which I won with a minor victory in the end (a lucky break from his hammerers after the lord had suffered 2 unsaved wounds). I won the tournament with 41/50, and about 700VP advantage on the second (whom also scored 41/50).

Both were fun battles, but I still want to face that damned Chaos list, just to know how I'd fare!

thx for all your advice, I hope to use it somewhere soon!

pkain762
28-12-2008, 22:31
don't neglect the fact that he can re roll ones if he brings a deamon prince with tendrils of tzeenech.... he'd be stupid not to bring that gift of chaos... can avoid a miscast and cause a possible irresistable.... it's a nasty combo but if he's just bring a lvl 4 lord wizard..... that ring sounds like your game winner to me

kain

Havock
29-12-2008, 03:00
The Tourney yesterday went fine until last round, at which point the dice decided to give me the finger (3 S4 hits inflicting 3 wounds on my knights, me botching my rolls and him outnumbering etc led his pimped out CoK's right into my main unit of knights), but before that, I trounced most lists.
The one thing any army not ItP has to watch out for is the level 4 with Diabolic Splendour. -1 Ld on all panic and fear tests = murderLd8 elves go down to Ld7, quite a difference.
And don't get me started on matches against O&G or Skaven.

mossel
02-01-2009, 16:06
Today was the day! I took on maarten's army, and with some luck, I beat it!
I deployed my army safely in the hotekbubble, keeping it safe from any magic missiles.
My boltthrowers protected one slower flank, while a unit of spearmen and the dark riders would form the faster flank.
Maarten deployed over his entire table edge, his mages behind a forest on the RBT flank.

In his first turn, he kinda crippled my harpies using one D6 to cast the first tzeentch spell 4 times... I let it pass, and used a scroll to stop the Pandaemonium. To no avail as the 3 remaining harpies fled...

His mages flying behind my army and me trying to keep as much as possible either away from his mages or inside the bubble being the major part of the remaining battle.
My fast cav and chariots trying to eliminate as much as possible from his army (my bolt throwers were all goners after turn 2).

In my final turn, I luckily took the last 2 wounds from his general and my 3 remaining harpies charged a mage, failed to wound, he fluffed his hits, I won, he broke, I overran...

in the end, I only lost half a mage, a unit dark riders, my black guard, my harpies and my bolt throwers.
all he had left, was a level 2 mage on disc and a unit marauder horsemen with throwing axes.

Result: a solig victory for the dark elves!

Now I am wondering, as I'm using the ring of hotek, to drop the level 2 upgrades on my mages and/or to change the seal of ghrond for 2 extra scrolls...

All comments are welcome

(my army list can be found here: http://warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=175941 )