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Latro_
28-12-2008, 14:08
Sorry am fairly new to fantasy and after reading the rule book bit and a quick forum search I coudlent see this.

If a model with killing blow is on a mount, does that mount get killing blow. So for example with a unit of DoC bloodcrushers do both the Jugger AND bloodreaper's attacks count as killing blow?

cheers.

DeathlessDraich
28-12-2008, 14:23
No, KB is conferred to the model and not the mount.
I don't think there are any magic items that transfer KB to the mount as well.

Latro_
28-12-2008, 15:13
Is there any page ref that defines what a 'model' is. Personally if a juggernaught isn't a model then what is it? hehe its not a tree, boat, sandwich etc...

I agree with you in my heart of hearts but just wanna clear it up fully.

EvC
28-12-2008, 15:29
Daemonic Juggernauts do have killing blow, yes. If you have a character with KB and mount him, the mount does not get killing blow, mind. But I'm fairly sure the Daemon book lists KB as a special rule of juggernauts anyway, so why the confusion?

Devon Harmon
28-12-2008, 15:37
EVC is right. Juggers (from the DoC Army Book) have KB and so do Bloodletters.

A better example might be a Chaos Lord with the Axe of Khorne mounted on a Jugger. The Jugger in the WoC book is different from the one in the DoC book and does not have KB. However, thanks to the Axe, the Lord has KB, but this special ability does not transfer to attacks made by the Jugger he is riding.

Latro_
28-12-2008, 16:08
Ah ok thats cool (for me)

But 'why' in the chaos lord example does it not extend to the mount. I know logically its a silly mute point but ruleswise... in fantasy is a 'model' not actually a complete model? As the KB rules says model.... it would just be nice to have something that makes the destinction as I can see it maybe coming up for other things as I start playing with my army.

theunwantedbeing
28-12-2008, 16:21
The item doesnt state model, it states "bearer gains killing blow".

Either way, only rules that are stated to transfer to all parts of the model will transfer to all parts of the model.
Killing blow is not such a rule (unlike hatred for example).

Latro_
28-12-2008, 16:29
Why is it no such rule?

Pg6. 'A cavalry model is treated in all respects as a single model'
Pg95. 'If a model with the killing blow special rule rolls a 6...'

hense my confusion... hehe i'm not trying to be difficult or beardy, i'm literally fairly new to FB from 40k and wanan get my head round whats what.

EvC
28-12-2008, 16:40
Well, sometimes it is that case. For example Wood Elf Wild Riders have a special rule that gives them +1A when they don't charge, and magical attacks. This extends to their steeds, which gain the extra attack and magical properties.

However, GW expect us to utilise common sense to understand the unwritten parts of rules. For example, if a character is swinging a weapon, then only the character gets the bonus. If the character drinks a potion of strength, then only he gets the strength bonus (even if it does say model). If something does give killing blow to the entire model though, then, yes, the whole model will gain the rule, unless it has a stipulation preventing it (E.g. Cauldron of Blood).

Kalandros
28-12-2008, 16:49
Its the awful awful wording and inconsistancy of the rules - a single model is not always a single model.

"in all respects" is false. The horse has his own attacks, the rider has his own attacks.
Psychology transfers to the mount but Special rules do not.

If we went with "its a single model" then the Dark Elf Items Potion Of Strength (and some other items) would affect the mount.
S9 Dragons, S7 cold Ones, etc.

Crazy Harborc
29-12-2008, 02:54
Whenever a rider has a KB it does not include his mount having it too. When a KB hits the rider of a "monster mount" the mount is NOT hit too. If a mount has saves of it's own and wounds separate from the rider's aren't you supposed to use those wounds to save the mount?

Goruax
29-12-2008, 13:25
If a mount has multiple wounds, they are treated as a monstrous mount and have a different set of rules.
Mounts with a single wound are treated as cavalry models.