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Whitesox
28-12-2008, 19:25
Ok im going to be playing a 2k battle tomorrow with my Vampire Counts.

Whats your opinion on the Quantity of Power Dice that would be deemed as competitive and not abusive..

I have two lists, identical in every way apart from my Vampire Lord and Thrall.

One has the following combo and produces 11 Power Dice, 7 Dispel and 4 Bound Items

Vampire Lord, Flayed Hauberk, Gem of Blood, Master of the Black Arts, Lord of Dead & Dark Acolyte
Vampire, Wristbands of Black Gold, Talisman of the Lycni, Dark Acolyte & Avatar of Death

The other has the following combo and produces 8 Power Dice, 7 Dispel and 4 Bound Items

Vampire Lord, Flayed Hauberk, Gem of Blood, Avatar of Death, Walking Death, Lord of Dead & Dark Acolyte
Vampire, Wristbands of Black Gold, Talisman of the Lycni, Supernatural Horror & Avatar of Death

So whats your opinions which would be best for a 2k VC army?

Fr0
28-12-2008, 21:16
8PD/4 bound in a VC army is still brutal, depends how your opponent will take it I suppose.

Caine Mangakahia
28-12-2008, 21:17
Ok im going to be playing a 2k battle tomorrow with my Vampire Counts.

Whats your opinion on the Quantity of Power Dice that would be deemed as competitive and not abusive..

I have two lists, identical in every way apart from my Vampire Lord and Thrall.

One has the following combo and produces 11 Power Dice, 7 Dispel and 4 Bound Items

Vampire Lord, Flayed Hauberk, Gem of Blood, Master of the Black Arts, Lord of Dead & Dark Acolyte
Vampire, Wristbands of Black Gold, Talisman of the Lycni, Dark Acolyte & Avatar of Death

The other has the following combo and produces 8 Power Dice, 7 Dispel and 4 Bound Items

Vampire Lord, Flayed Hauberk, Gem of Blood, Avatar of Death, Walking Death, Lord of Dead & Dark Acolyte
Vampire, Wristbands of Black Gold, Talisman of the Lycni, Supernatural Horror & Avatar of Death

So whats your opinions which would be best for a 2k VC army?

A vampire with supernatural horror, can't take any other magical items.
I usually get by with 8 power dice and bound items myself. Its usually more about how you spend those dice that gets complaints. Spamming Vanhels more than once with the same wizard will usually have your opponant swearing, as will 10 minutes of single dice casting invocation of nehek. Try throwing more dice into it instead. Although if your opponant is in the habit of taking lots of dispel scrolls (which need some kind of balance IMO, fail on a 1 or something), then I say serves them right and spam away. Book of Arkhan is fair enough if you spend the points on it. Its only Power 3 and dies on a 1.

orkz222
28-12-2008, 21:43
11pd list , i like to spam spells

athamas
28-12-2008, 21:51
11 is a reasonable number for a VC army..

a VC army needs soma magic to work atall, and as such, 11 is reasonable.. 15 + would be getting kinda silly... [its possible to have 18+]

11 is my standard build of lord, vamp, necro and wright... its not bad unless you span invo.. and that just gets repetative...

Whitesox
28-12-2008, 22:15
A vampire with supernatural horror, can't take any other magical items.


Supernatural horror causes the vamp to be terror causing not etheral as in the power you are thinking of

sulla
28-12-2008, 22:47
8PD/4 bound in a VC army is still brutal, depends how your opponent will take it I suppose.

I agree. More than enough in most cases. Don't neglect fighting abilities for your vamps.

theunwantedbeing
28-12-2008, 22:53
The lower of the 2 is plenty really.
If your doing the whole "invocation spam" people generally get fed up whether its 8 or 20 dice your using anyway.

I'll also point out that you dont need anywhere near as many dice if you have multiple corpse carts and/or a load of other bound items.
My DE army has 9 powerdice and 6 dispel dice with no bound items and is perfectly capable of being a pain for my opponent.

Heafstaag
29-12-2008, 00:02
How do you use Invocation of Nehek more than once on one power dice?

(i've never fought VC, and don't know too much about them)

changer of fate
29-12-2008, 05:18
I would go for the 11 power dice, even though i don't really know how to use them well, but "more the better" is the rule i follow.

PS: does "more the better" make sense???:confused: sounds weired to me???

FunkyRatDemon
29-12-2008, 08:18
11 is fine, especially in 'raise' lists

Frankly
29-12-2008, 11:06
10 to 12 dice + bound spells will get you through a solid magic defense. Most good player are going to hold back and wait for you to danse/magic movemnt anyway since thats the real game breaker 90% of the time.

fastcarfreak
29-12-2008, 20:07
My brother plays VC only, and coming from experience, He along with everyone else in the game (we usually play a regular sunday night 2v2), have a much more enjoyable game when he uses less powerdice, and more close combat buffing. Raising a million zombies and skeletons only goes so far with only 4 vulnerable characters.... yes, zombies and skeletons will keep things in combat for a long time, but, thats really all they are doing... They almost never win combat unless joined by a character, and then still because the character lacks close combat ability, his damage is only minimum, where any elite troop should make up for it with kills to the zombies or skellies.

Caine Mangakahia
29-12-2008, 21:11
Supernatural horror causes the vamp to be terror causing not etheral as in the power you are thinking of

Doh! Still I find terror to be a bit hit or miss. You already cause fear, your opponant passes his terror test and those points are wasted for the rest of the game. Ok, it'll come off once in a while (never does for me, except vs Skaven).
I prefer the balance of combat and magic myself.

fubukii
29-12-2008, 21:21
they have a special rule that lets them cast the spell more then once.

BattleofLund
30-12-2008, 01:18
I would go for the 11 power dice, even though i don't really know how to use them well, but "more the better" is the rule i follow.

PS: does "more the better" make sense???:confused: sounds weired to me???

'The more dice you have, the better it is.'

Truncated to 'the more the better'. The expression is right; the sentiment, not always. Increased magic means less of something else, right? Jam is good, but if you choose to trade away ALL your bread for more jam... then things will get sticky before the meal is done.

Spiney Norman
30-12-2008, 01:21
In general 7/8PD is about average if you actually want to get a spell off about once a turn against your average magic defence. Less than seven is about as effective as none.

More than 10 would be considered a strong magic phase

orkz222
02-01-2009, 13:24
How do you use Invocation of Nehek more than once on one power dice?

(i've never fought VC, and don't know too much about them)

+1 to cast /dispel staff and the +1 to invocation for summoning skeletons/ghouls. 1 dice spam nehek with high rate of success. :D

Guanyin
03-01-2009, 01:18
+1 to cast /dispel staff and the +1 to invocation for summoning skeletons/ghouls. 1 dice spam nehek with high rate of success. :D

Still fails on a roll of 1 or 2 on the dice, no matter what bonuses you got.

Guy Fawkes
04-01-2009, 04:33
Still fails on a roll of 1 or 2 on the dice, no matter what bonuses you got.

The point isn't to increase the chance of success, but to increase the difficulty to dispel. A roll of 3 will be dispelled with one die 66% of the time and will be dispelled with 2 dice on every roll but snake eyes. Even if you maintain the 66% chance to successfully cast, making your power level rise from the 3 to 6 range to the 5 to 8 range will make your spells get through more often and drain dispel dice faster. Also, every other spell in the list gets improved with the Skull Staff, along with dispelling.

Magic is very much, "Go Long or Go Home," because the more you have, the more spells get through. Metagame right now means that most enemies can effectively shut down magic if you have 6 Power dice or less. If you want decent magic (eg. 1 or 2 spells per phase) you need 4 to 6 levels of Wizards and 7+ power dice. Bound spells can help substitute for power dice in many circumstances. If you want a lot of magic getting through, add in more power dice, levels of Wizards, or Bound spells accordingly.

Again though, magic, especially in the Vampire Army, can't make up for everything in army and taking excessive amounts of magic can handicap the rest of your army. I've seen armies - Tzeentch, Vampires, Lizardmen, etc... that can get 18 to 20+ power dice. However, these armies tend to be very small. I can be selective in my combats, almost always get flanking, and generally only start deploying most of my important units in reaction to their entire army being on the table. My armies are built to sustain decent magic missile and shooting both, so I am generally fine. I generally pack 6 to 7 dispel dice and usually a small defense item, like a scroll or magic resistance thing. My fast units can make combat by turn 2, even if I go first and they stand still. By then, I usually don't have to worry about magic missiles, but some utility spells are still mean. In this case, I try to assassinate Wizards and reach combat as quickly as possible. Sometimes the enemy gets only 2 turns of their powerful magic before I start racking up victory points killing their troops and their Wizards become embroiled in combat and lose LOS (at worst) or are killed or run down when their unit flees (at best).

The lesson here is: More power dice and Wizards make your magic phase better, but this is the same as everything else. More guns makes your shooting better. More cavalry makes your movement better. While being powerful in one phase is always an advantage, don't neglect the rest of the game, because if any phase generally wins the game it's movement. Generally, it is most important to perform well at everything than cripple one leg to make the other superhuman in strength. Be careful when heading towards the excessive.