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Gropius
30-12-2008, 04:11
I didn't find this little info I got on the forums so here it goes.

1) Apparently the Griffon will be back in the artillery section.

2) Two different kinds of sentinels. The normal ones and others in support role. These can not scout but get heavier weapons (like plasma cannons).

3) At least one completely new unit and old units coming back (thats all I have been told)

I can't guarantee for the truth of these rumours and I am sorry if this has already been posted.

Commissar Danilov
30-12-2008, 04:36
I was at my GW store today and the guy working there said that they are making a plastic version of the Vulture not the Valkyrie. Thats what he told me, I don't know if it is ture, or the other way around.

esk34
30-12-2008, 05:19
The new unit would probably be the valk. THe old units comming back would have to be the griffin and Leman Russ variants. (Vanquisher etc.)

The sential rumor sounds good, as long as they make them cheaper. At the moment a killer can or war waler puts a sentinal to shame as far as value for points goes.

Bun Bun
30-12-2008, 05:20
I like the news regarding the new Sentinel. It may be only a rumour but still it is a welcome one to me. :cool:

T_55
30-12-2008, 05:23
Like sentinels with twin linked weapons?

That'd be a great opportunity for me, almost as great as plastic gretchin.

chaos0xomega
30-12-2008, 05:53
no, prolly like the FW support sentinels with rocket pods/missile launchers

nickclark
30-12-2008, 06:11
no, prolly like the FW support sentinels with rocket pods/missile launchers

Yer thats what i was thinking. They might add another variant like the first commentor said with plasma cannon

I would prefer ones with multimelter

old unit coming back:

IG Jet Bikes??? havent heard any rumours regarding them, but it would be cool

even normal bikes would do

spaint2k
30-12-2008, 07:11
I was at my GW store today and the guy working there said that they are making a plastic version of the Vulture not the Valkyrie. Thats what he told me, I don't know if it is ture, or the other way around.

The valkyrie is a transport while the vulture is a gunship. I would prefer to see the transport vehicle from a gameplay point of view.

Steve

vladsimpaler
30-12-2008, 07:35
Very cool, the nice thing about these rumors is that 1. There seems to be new stuff, and 2. It seems to confirm older stuff.

@ Danilov- The only thing I'm not sure about is the Vulture. Isn't it supposed to be a Valkyrie?

sigur
30-12-2008, 07:49
IG Jet Bikes??? havent heard any rumours regarding them, but it would be cool

even normal bikes would do



IG Jetbikes won't happen and what would we need IG bikes for if we have cav?

zombied00d
30-12-2008, 07:51
Yeah I have to go with the Valkyrie being more likely as the Vulture is a straight up flyer.

Ghilleman
30-12-2008, 07:54
IG Jet Bikes??? havent heard any rumours regarding them, but it would be cool

I think it's safe to say that we won't see those, ever. Master Samuel or whatever of the Ravenwing purportedly rides the last known imperial jetbike. So I don't think we'll see the rank-and-file of the imperium getting them ;)


Heavy weapons sentinels sounds good to me. The more heavy weapons I can get, the better.

Reflex
30-12-2008, 08:21
hmm griffin mortar... if i remember correctly it was rather useless for points cost and what it could do thats why it wasn't a popular choice. so i doubt it will make a comeback.

TabulaRasa
30-12-2008, 08:44
@Reflex: A comeback don't equal old rules.

laudarkul
30-12-2008, 09:35
1) Apparently the Griffon will be back in the artillery section.
2) Two different kinds of sentinels. The normal ones and others in support role. These can not scout but get heavier weapons (like plasma cannons).
3) At least one completely new unit and old units coming back (thats all I have been told)

1) If I can use a heavy weapons slot for a 3 Griffo's battery sounds good.And of course some rules modification.
2) Sound good especially if they can get attach to a HQ as a battery/squadron (3 plasma cannon as a support sound good, depending the cost)
3) I just want rapier laser destroyer and all the tank variants.

shabbadoo
30-12-2008, 09:55
The Griffon was great, and undervalued. Str 6, AP 4 Ordinance blast, and has a heavy bolter in the hull for secondary fire should the mortar get taken out; plus 12 front armor. Way better than a Whirlwind in both weaponry and armor, and for 5 points cheaper to boot. I'd love to see it brought back, and see people actually use it.

singlewideslim
30-12-2008, 10:43
I heard rumor somewhere that that a new valkrie kit could also potentialy make a vulture. If the plastics look anything like the forgeworld ones, it wouldnt be too hard to convert them anyway. I also have been hearing murmurings about the new guard codex haveing "Inquisitor" as an hq choice listed. Wonder if that could be the new unit. One thing we need baaaadly is new rough rider models,and I would expect to see that sometime next year,too.

Bregalad
30-12-2008, 12:05
The Valkyrie (confirmed and seen) and Sentinel recut were already mentioned in another IG thread. Here the old Sentinel rumours from there:


On the sentinel frame, I saw a lot of waepons. There are flamer, multi-laser, autocannon chainsword etc.. There also seems a heavy bolter and a plasma cannon on it lol. Although, I am not quite sure about the plasma cannon, the pic is not clear enough.

The new unit mentioned there, taken from BolS:


There is a new HQ choice referred to as a "Fleet Officer". This fine chap gives you access to different types of orbital bombardments every turn. There are other officer "types" to select from that give other abilites including a Commissar Lord.

Models
New Commissar Lord is available as a new HQ choice with dual models.

Barbarossa
30-12-2008, 16:53
Then maybe I can finally use my VDR'ed Sentinels with Plasma Cannon/Multi Melta and Assault cannon!
And my two Griffons will be back in the codex? Here's to hoping!

The Highlander
30-12-2008, 17:23
Griffons are the best value artillery tank in the game! Great damage, low cost and a minimum range that means you can hit almost anything on the table. They slaughter anything not in PA, and wound SM on a 2+. What's not to like?

pablofiasco
30-12-2008, 17:25
Griffons are the best value artillery tank in the game! Great damage, low cost and a minimum range that means you can hit almost anything on the table. They slaughter anything not in PA, and wound SM on a 2+. What's not to like?

not to mention, if your using the IA speicla ammunition rules, you can pull all sorts of "evil' things to make units fall back, ignore cover, etc

DarkMatter2
30-12-2008, 17:38
Does anyone happen to know if there are rumors regarding new Rough Rider models? We really really need them.

MajorWesJanson
30-12-2008, 17:43
Sentinels with HB? Nice. If they add Multimeltas, that means my Elysian sentinels can come play.

Da King
30-12-2008, 22:29
Plasma cannon sentinels would be pretty awesome. So would multi-meltas, the extra mobility would make them a lot easier to use.

Marneus Calgar
30-12-2008, 23:32
The problem with the griffon was that everyone played Space Marines back when it was still on the shelves. Yes, there are still a lot of Space Marine players now, but the number of Ork, Eldar, Tau, and IG armies have drastically increasing over the years. Therefore, the griffon is a lot more appealing than it was in the past, when the basilisk dominated. I bought one on Ebay a couple years ago and I never looked back.

I would like to see other variants of the Leman Russ, but I think I will stick to my ordinance battle cannon until the Str4 defensive weapon gets fixed.

Sabotage!
30-12-2008, 23:56
I would love to see Sentinels with heavier weapons, maybe assault cannons like back in the day? I would love the option of having more variation in all the Guard units, as obviously different guard forces from different planets would have different weapons and preferences for technology would differ. While you couldn't include every weapon in the galaxy, the more variation the better.

Maxis Lithium
31-12-2008, 00:14
Given the rules for flanking, I have grown to love my Lascannon sentinal. The ability to come in from the side and then lay into flank armour with a Lascannon is very worth the effort, but War Walkers DO do it better.

I really hope that Autocannons make their way on to the sprue. I would field units of those without a second thought.

As for Gryphon Mortars, I would be vey happy to see them. Their biggest problem was always that they were competing for slots with Russes. If the rumor of squadrons of Russes is true, then more then likly, there will be units of Gryphons and Basalisks. Useing Gryphons in groups would make them a #1 choice for me.

TaintedSpam
31-12-2008, 00:22
The problem with the griffon was that everyone played Space Marines back when it was still on the shelves.

I dunno if that's changed, there was one Eldar player and one IG player (that would be me) at the last tournament I went to with the rest being Marines or Chaos Marines. ;)

However, the main problem with it as it was, was that why the heck would you buy it when for a few points more you could get an IDF Basilisk or a Russ in the same slots?

The game's changed a lot since then - cover is all over the place which helps a the non 3+ armies field larger shooty support units. Lootas are the best example I guess. With it's new incendiary rounds you see Whirlwinds a lot more often. I could see the Griffon getting something similar to make it an attractive option - coupled with low points cost - again.

Ozendorph
31-12-2008, 00:24
They'd have to be some amazing options for me to consider buying more Sentinels, as I have a bunch already. Though if they did a cool advanced recon/sensor Sentinel in plastic I'd likely pick up a couple ;)

If they're doing either the Vulture or the Valkyrie, my money is on the Valk. The Guard need another (non-SH) transport, and that would certainly do the job. 3 Valks loaded with storm troopers, a little Wagner, and you're good to go.

Dio´Ra
31-12-2008, 00:55
give us sentinels with two weapons....that way we can place each weapon at each side of the sentinel and start making mechwarrior conversions :chrome:....

Would love to see sentinels leaving fast attack and going troop to function more as infantry support....

Chem-Dog
31-12-2008, 03:13
Yer thats what i was thinking. They might add another variant like the first commentor said with plasma cannon

I would prefer ones with multimelter

old unit coming back:

IG Jet Bikes??? havent heard any rumours regarding them, but it would be cool

even normal bikes would do

I too would love MM Sentinels.
I don't think we'll ever see imperial jetbikes again, they were restricted to the more advanced races for a good reason.


hmm griffin mortar... if i remember correctly it was rather useless for points cost and what it could do thats why it wasn't a popular choice. so i doubt it will make a comeback.

All you have to do is give it variable ammo types and it's instantly a better option than the Basilisk imo, give it an AP 3 ammo type and one that ignores cover....


I just want to add a single observation based on the most recent WD (janu-WAAAGH!-ry edition), Andy Hoare is fielding an IG army of 2500 points, featuring
FOUR Leman Russes,
ONE Demolisher,
ONE Hellhound,
THREE Basilisks and
SIX sentinels.
Whichever way you cut it, that's way too many HS slots for what's currently legal (by my count, five too many) and a dubious number of FA selections (if sentinels are counted singly as suggested in army list), could this be an early sneeky peeky at some IG rules development/playtesting hinting at the ++tanks situation we've been hearing about?

Certainly looks that way to me, there's no way you should be fielding two minimum sized platoons in 2.5K for any other reason...

MajorWesJanson
31-12-2008, 03:50
I wonder of Sentinels are platoon attachments now?

4 Russ? Is this one squadron? A Tank Ace HQ and a squadron?

3 Bassies is a battery it looks like.

TheOneWithNoName
31-12-2008, 04:02
Guard could really use some arty that ignores cover saves, even if its just 4 and up.

Mr Kibbles
31-12-2008, 05:16
Inferno shells maybe?

MrBigMr
31-12-2008, 05:35
*Reads about all the new sentinels.*
You're excited?! Feel these nipples!

If we get plasma cannon and/or assault cannon sentinels, I'll be so happy I might just soil myself.

shabbadoo
31-12-2008, 05:42
I just want to add a single observation based on the most recent WD (janu-WAAAGH!-ry edition), Andy Hoare is fielding an IG army of 2500 points, featuring
FOUR Leman Russes,
ONE Demolisher,
ONE Hellhound,
THREE Basilisks and
SIX sentinels.
Whichever way you cut it, that's way too many HS slots for what's currently legal (by my count, five too many) and a dubious number of FA selections (if sentinels are counted singly as suggested in army list), could this be an early sneeky peeky at some IG rules development/playtesting hinting at the ++tanks situation we've been hearing about?

Certainly looks that way to me, there's no way you should be fielding two minimum sized platoons in 2.5K for any other reason...

That could just have been a "special" battle report. Never hurts to encourage people to be creative with the structure of their games to suit a story line. Besides, the FOC is based on 1,500 points, not 2500, so I wouldn't read too much into things. Rumors do point to minor changes so as to be able to take more or certain things(Heavy Support in particular), but it really won't be too long until we get some very concrete information on this.

Commiesalami
31-12-2008, 05:51
I just want to add a single observation based on the most recent WD (janu-WAAAGH!-ry edition), Andy Hoare is fielding an IG army of 2500 points, featuring
FOUR Leman Russes,
ONE Demolisher,
ONE Hellhound,
THREE Basilisks and
SIX sentinels.

Whichever way you cut it, that's way too many HS slots for what's currently legal (by my count, five too many) and a dubious number of FA selections (if sentinels are counted singly as suggested in army list), could this be an early sneeky peeky at some IG rules development/playtesting hinting at the ++tanks situation we've been hearing about?

Certainly looks that way to me, there's no way you should be fielding two minimum sized platoons in 2.5K for any other reason...

They mention for that battle report that in order to encourage tank use, there were no maximums for Heavy Support or Fast Attack. If you notice that the ork player also has 6 battlewagons, 2 looted wagons, big guns and 3 deff dreads

Commissar Bob
31-12-2008, 05:56
I just want to add a single observation based on the most recent WD (janu-WAAAGH!-ry edition), Andy Hoare is fielding an IG army of 2500 points, featuring
FOUR Leman Russes,
ONE Demolisher,
ONE Hellhound,
THREE Basilisks and
SIX sentinels.
Whichever way you cut it, that's way too many HS slots for what's currently legal (by my count, five too many) and a dubious number of FA selections (if sentinels are counted singly as suggested in army list), could this be an early sneeky peeky at some IG rules development/playtesting hinting at the ++tanks situation we've been hearing about?

Certainly looks that way to me, there's no way you should be fielding two minimum sized platoons in 2.5K for any other reason...

That was a special scenario with no limits on Heavy Support or Fast Attack as "they" wanted to emphasize armour. So I don't think that really tells us anything about the new codex.

I am intrigued at the idea of new sentinel sprues though. But to me Valkryies in everyone's IG army just doesn't feel quite right. I view them more as a transport for elite units or supply ferrying, not really something any normal Guard unit would ride around in during combat.

Whoops ninjaed by commiesalami!

long bow
31-12-2008, 07:28
valkryies are in the back round from IA are only issued to air borne regiments and storm trooper squads. and it also says that they are a rarer technolagy like the plasma gun because of the hover mode thing.

The Highlander
31-12-2008, 11:50
However, the main problem with it as it was, was that why the heck would you buy it when for a few points more you could get an IDF Basilisk or a Russ in the same slots?

A russ can't do indirect fire, and a Basilisk has a 36" minimum range while a griffon has a 12" minimum range. This means that you have to put a Basilisk out on one flank (where it is vulnerable), and even then after a few turns its targets will be limited. The griffon can be paced behind cover (or other tanks) slap bang in the middle of your lines and fire all game. You can't hide from a griffon!

shabbadoo
31-12-2008, 12:47
Indeed! And, an indirect firing Basilisk is not just a few points more than a Griffon either. It's 50 pts. more. Going by the IA2 update, if you tack on just 5 more points to that 50 points, you get a Griffon AND a Chimera for 5 points more than an direct firing Basilisk. That is a well spent 130 points if you ask me.

From what has been posted so far, IG might end up being one of the more interesting army lists released in the last 5 years.

Chem-Dog
31-12-2008, 14:08
You're excited?! Feel these nipples!

I suggest you return them before the owner notices they're missing!


They mention for that battle report that in order to encourage tank use, there were no maximums for Heavy Support or Fast Attack. If you notice that the ork player also has 6 battlewagons, 2 looted wagons, big guns and 3 deff dreads

Admittedly I didn't see that bit about the no maximum for HS units, but if they wanted to promote heavy tank usage, why not just take Mechanised infantry? Anyway, less than ideal army lists isn't what the rumour section's for, so I'll leave it there :)

TaintedSpam
31-12-2008, 16:45
Yes, that's true now, as a matter of fact, you're proving my point that the Griffon would be more popular now, but let's look back in the original 3rd Ed codex when the Griffon was last available (excluding IA). The way the game worked back then, what did you want filling your heavy slots? A Griffon or a Russ?

Gorbad Ironclaw
31-12-2008, 16:59
but if they wanted to promote heavy tank usage, why not just take Mechanised infantry?

Because mechanised infantry isn't tanks? Yes, you get some chimeras but they are not really what you would call proper tanks.

nickclark
01-01-2009, 02:39
Wow, ive never really heard of the griffon before this thread but u have sold me sounds VERY cool.
i like the idea of a sentinel with an assault cannon
dual weapons would also work for me :D

Corton
01-01-2009, 05:46
[QUOTE=Gropius;3167285]
3) At least one completely new unit and old units coming back (thats all I have been told)

QUOTE]



Oh how I would hope for penal legion troops, or even those living bombs. Probably the various Russ kits though. Maybe the Griffon will get to use those lovely Hellfire rounds that the Death Korps get....

zombied00d
01-01-2009, 06:28
I'd promise that the Living Bombs won't be making a come back. Too horridly un-PC. Given the ability of the media to work people into a tizzy over nothing, the idea of teaching fine young upstanding citizens to play with toys glorifiying "blowing oneself up" for... well, anything really, wouldn't make it very far.

starlight
01-01-2009, 06:40
Yeah, that's pretty much been confirmed for a few years...:eyebrows:


Not to say that some don't model their Demo Charges that way *anyways*, but you won't see it in the rules anymore...which is good I think.:) We have enough problems convincing people we're not worshiping Satan or some silly thing without having suicide bombers written into the game...

MrBigMr
01-01-2009, 07:12
I'm a little skeptical about the multi-barreled Russ variant. I mean, it could be a homage to a conversion in the 3rd edition IG rulebook of an Exterminator that had a 4 barrel "flak panzer" style turret on it. Seeing how we have all sorts of stuff in the background to use, making a totally new and radical Russ pattern seems a little... Unneeded. Then again, maybe it's a turret mounted rapier laser destroyer, which could be a variant of the Annihilator pattern Russ.

I'm actually hoping we would get some sort of heavy mortar or thud gun. I've been just dying to get some of those SM Thunderers and making them a part of my IG. They have just the style I want, rather than the nitty gritty WW1-2 that dominates the IG.


We have enough problems convincing people we're not worshiping Satan or some silly thing without having suicide bombers written into the game...
Yeah, God forbid there should be something disturbing in there. Like skulls and blood and child soldiers and rape and mutilation and slavery and death and awesome nakedness and so forth.

They should take all the PC people, strap them with explosives and send them storming Omaha beach. And put GW censors in with them. I mean, ok, you can't put people doing suicide runs, but bomb squigs and grot bombs are not people, right? Nothing wrong with the image of a fanatical grot riding a aerial vehicle packed full of explosives into targets. Or herds of squigs running around with TNT strapped to their backs.

Reminds me a little of a thing here on Warseer (not critizising, just saying how funny it sounded) when I made a query on what sort of models I can post pictures of. The bottom line, a walking daemon penis is fine (as long as it has the proper warnings), as it's not real, but a Michelangelo's David style model with the junk just hanging out is a little... there and there.

...
Dangit, now look what you made me do. This is entrapment, your honor, I was coerced into it!

synapse
01-01-2009, 08:05
i like the idea of a sentinel with an assault cannon
dual weapons would also work for me :D

a long time ago in a galaxy far away, that was the only weapon the sentinel had :D

funny how things change and come full circle (if inded thats true)

MrBigMr
01-01-2009, 09:31
It is possible for assault cannon sentinel to come back. I mean, look at all the stuff that came back in the SM codex. Conversion beamer, lascannon and TL plasma gun Razorbacks... Not to forget how much assault cannons can be found in Marine armies these days, so I don't see anything wrong in spreading the wealth around a bit.

Shangrila
01-01-2009, 09:54
I have 12 sentinels they cant change them now!

but itde be nice to actually be able to use my vanquisher and exterminators without having to ask for permission.

Mr Kibbles
01-01-2009, 10:46
Oh, awesome, will there be Vanquishers?

Gazak Blacktoof
01-01-2009, 11:14
Not entirely sold on a couple of the ideas being discussed.

I don't like the idea of the guard running around with lots of rare specialist equipment like assault cannons and plasma cannons. I understand that there are so many guard regiments that some of them will have plasma cannon sentinels, I just hope that they don't become so numerous that they outnumber the more "traditional" multilaser or autocannon equipped models.

I also don't like the sound of the fleet officer. Naval officers don't serve on battlefields as far as I know and there's a deliberate separation of navy and guard thanks to a certain son of the emperor. Shipborne weapons are also immense, hardly designed to target anything so small as a unit on a 40K battlefield. Orbital bombardments are epic in epic and lances can only hit super heavies. 40K games represent an epic firefight and assault action, which is not where you should be targeting indiscriminate fire that's probably in the megaton range, unless you're particularly callous.

I am pleased to see the return of Griffin and addition of the Valkyrie. The Griffin has always seemed a much more sensible weapon than the basilisk to be hauling into a short ranged fire fight.

EVIL INC
01-01-2009, 13:49
Heres me being glad I magnatized my sentinel weapons.:p

RichBlake
01-01-2009, 13:59
I don't like the idea of the guard running around with lots of rare specialist equipment like assault cannons and plasma cannons. I understand that there are so many guard regiments that some of them will have plasma cannon sentinels, I just hope that they don't become so numerous that they outnumber the more "traditional" multilaser or autocannon equipped models.


I sort of agree with you here and then again I sort of don't. From the fluff side there are a million planets in the Imperium each with their own Guard Regiments so really almost anything is possible. Also in various fluff it's mentioned that some planet produce lots of whatever it is that's used to make plasma. In a Last Chancer's novel they visit an ice planet that help produce some of the safest plasma weapons around (only 40% chance of malfunction!) and as such are abundant there.

From a game point of view anything that makes the Guard more comeptitive is a good thing as long as you aren't forced to take it.



I also don't like the sound of the fleet officer. Naval officers don't serve on battlefields as far as I know and there's a deliberate separation of navy and guard thanks to a certain son of the emperor. Shipborne weapons are also immense, hardly designed to target anything so small as a unit on a 40K battlefield. Orbital bombardments are epic in epic and lances can only hit super heavies. 40K games represent an epic firefight and assault action, which is not where you should be targeting indiscriminate fire that's probably in the megaton range, unless you're particularly callous.



Firstly there are lots of bits of fluff that mention a "Fleet Liaison Officer". Their rank is usually Captain or something and their job is to liaise with the naval taskforce either helping the regiment or transporting it. So the role itself is plausible. It's unlikely that they would ever lead a contingent but that wasn't specifically said.

Also the weapons you are thinking of are generally attached to battleships, even small Imperial ships will have guns that put a baneblade to shame. Besides the Marines and the Inquisition already have access to both so denying one race the ability to use orbital strikes on the basis of debatable fluff when 3 others currently can use it seems a bit unfair.

Gazak Blacktoof
01-01-2009, 15:40
I'd rather that none of them had it. Besides its not as if the imperium are the only side with ships. Everybody can engage in planetary bombardments, its just not appropriate for the game scale.

RichBlake
01-01-2009, 16:14
I'd rather that none of them had it. Besides its not as if the imperium are the only side with ships. Everybody can engage in planetary bombardments, its just not appropriate for the game scale.

That's fair enough, I still think small ships would be able to target like that, but more like the Inquisition bombardment then the SM Bombardment. The whole idea of attacks coming from "somewhere else" sort of brings the idea that you're not the only part of the army in nicely. For example why do Guard need basilisks next to them to call in artillery strikes? Earthshakers should be able to lob shells at the enemy from like 100 miles away if the fluff is correct.

(For anyone not in the know =I= bombardment is secretly targeted on a terrain piece then the =I= player choose when they want to start rolling for it via reserves. When it starts coming down it doesn't stop and scatters 3D6. The SM one comes down anywhere on the board and scatters 2D6 and is only used once.)

synapse
01-01-2009, 16:30
if you dont like the idea of a fleet officer, just call him an artillery dude and imagine the bombardments are fro off table bombards/basilisks etc. just like 2nd edition had

RichBlake
01-01-2009, 16:53
if you dont like the idea of a fleet officer, just call him an artillery dude and imagine the bombardments are fro off table bombards/basilisks etc. just like 2nd edition had

"Artillery Dude"? Did the Munitorium get lazy when they came to that position? :P

In all seriousness it's a good point though. Count as FTW

Darnok
01-01-2009, 17:14
Hastings just confirmed here (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3172128&postcount=145) that we will see the Codex, new Psykers and Ratlings in April. Maybe there is more to come, but he'll spill the beans when he's ready. ;)

chaos0xomega
01-01-2009, 17:24
I just want to add a single observation based on the most recent WD (janu-WAAAGH!-ry edition), Andy Hoare is fielding an IG army of 2500 points, featuring
FOUR Leman Russes,
ONE Demolisher,
ONE Hellhound,
THREE Basilisks and
SIX sentinels.
Whichever way you cut it, that's way too many HS slots for what's currently legal (by my count, five too many) and a dubious number of FA selections (if sentinels are counted singly as suggested in army list), could this be an early sneeky peeky at some IG rules development/playtesting hinting at the ++tanks situation we've been hearing about?

Certainly looks that way to me, there's no way you should be fielding two minimum sized platoons in 2.5K for any other reason...

Don't think so. His opponent took 6 battlewagons, 3 deff dreads, 2 killa kans, 2 looted wagons, and 3 big gunz. As he didn't take any special HQ's or any other form of unit which messes with the FoC, this should have been downright impossible.

*DAMN beated too it...*

and...

Damnit Hastings, you glorious bastard, I want to read your errr.. .books?

Someone get him in here and make him spill the frijoles.

synapse
01-01-2009, 17:30
that was a special scenario using as many tanks as they could get their hands on. no FoC used as far as i can tell

TaintedSpam
01-01-2009, 17:45
Hastings just confirmed here (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3172128&postcount=145) that we will see the Codex, new Psykers and Ratlings in April. Maybe there is more to come, but he'll spill the beans when he's ready. ;)

For the lazy:


Codex, Psykers, Ratling Snipers... etc (I won't go into any more detail to spoil it) all in April :) I can give you part codes, price bands, everything... ;)

Sorry everyone for posting 40k nonsense on the WFB forums.

W00T!

Pink Horror
01-01-2009, 17:48
Reminds me a little of a thing here on Warseer (not critizising, just saying how funny it sounded) when I made a query on what sort of models I can post pictures of. The bottom line, a walking daemon penis is fine (as long as it has the proper warnings), as it's not real, but a Michelangelo's David style model with the junk just hanging out is a little... there and there.


Orks aren't real. Does that mean I can post pictures of pants-less Ork conversions?

RichBlake
01-01-2009, 18:29
What? My sanctioned psykers will actually be useful? Apart from the fact that at 37 points for a Psyker + Honorifica Imperalis you have a psychic HSO for the Price of a Junior Officer of course.

23rd elysian
01-01-2009, 18:47
What? My sanctioned psykers will actually be useful? Apart from the fact that at 37 points for a Psyker + Honorifica Imperalis you have a psychic HSO for the Price of a Junior Officer of course.

A Junior officer and 4 other guardsmen...

RichBlake
01-01-2009, 18:57
A Junior officer and 4 other guardsmen...

It's a fair point, but seeing as you will already have at least a Junior Officer and 4 other Guardsmen in the squad why not have a(nother) Heroic Senior Officer who can shoot lightening from his hands? :P

Shangrila
01-01-2009, 19:50
Not entirely sold on a couple of the ideas being discussed.

I also don't like the sound of the fleet officer. Naval officers don't serve on battlefields as far as I know and there's a deliberate separation of navy and guard thanks to a certain son of the emperor. Shipborne weapons are also immense, hardly designed to target anything so small as a unit on a 40K battlefield. Orbital bombardments are epic in epic and lances can only hit super heavies. 40K games represent an epic firefight and assault action, which is not where you should be targeting indiscriminate fire that's probably in the megaton range, unless you're particularly callous.
.


Well in both world wars SWOs(surface warfare officer) have gone ashore, its called a shore party. and theres tons of naval officers in the sandbox now, so i dont see how the IG/IN any different from the Army/Navy.

RichBlake
01-01-2009, 19:57
Well in both world wars SWOs(surface warfare officer) have gone ashore, its called a shore party. and theres tons of naval officers in the sandbox now, so i dont see how the IG/IN any different from the Army/Navy.

Because the Imperial Guard and the Imperial Navy were purposefully split up so if one went traitorous the other would be hard pressed to join them?

During the Horus Heresy Primarchs turned traitor and their Marines and Guardsmen followed them through ignorance or loyalty. As a result each Primarch that turned traitor also turned about 1,000,000(?) Marines as well as countless ships and guardsmen, more the enough to conquer a planet.

In order for that to happen in the current Imperium you'd need a Lord General, a Chapter Master and a Lord Admiral all to become tainted and vow to serve a single person above them. Not impossible but difficult.

The Fleet Officer will either be a Naval Officer that is helping the Guard or a Fleet Liaison Officer from the Guard who liaises with the Navy. Anything else would break all the fluff.

starlight
01-01-2009, 19:57
As well, Forward Air Observers from the Air Force have been seconded to Infantry units to liaise with aircraft...

Possible, plausible...let's see how characterful...:)

Shangrila
01-01-2009, 20:04
Because the Imperial Guard and the Imperial Navy were purposefully split up so if one went traitorous the other would be hard pressed to join them?

During the Horus Heresy Primarchs turned traitor and their Marines and Guardsmen followed them through ignorance or loyalty. As a result each Primarch that turned traitor also turned about 1,000,000(?) Marines as well as countless ships and guardsmen, more the enough to conquer a planet.

In order for that to happen in the current Imperium you'd need a Lord General, a Chapter Master and a Lord Admiral all to become tainted and vow to serve a single person above them. Not impossible but difficult.

The Fleet Officer will either be a Naval Officer that is helping the Guard or a Fleet Liaison Officer from the Guard who liaises with the Navy. Anything else would break all the fluff.

So your saying that because theres a fleet officer in my guard army,then it goes choas then my fleet will because theres a guy on the ground with a headset?

RichBlake
01-01-2009, 20:08
No I'm saying that's why it will either be:

A) A low ranking Naval Officer designated the role of liaising with the Guard

or

B) A Guard Officer designated the role of liaising with the Navy

I thought you were saying that it's understandable that the Guard and the Navy would be merged, if not then I apologise for misunderstanding your point.

starlight
01-01-2009, 20:09
No, but the guy with the headset can now call down fire on Loyalist troops without the guys on the ship being aware...

Shangrila
01-01-2009, 20:12
No I'm saying that's why it will either be:

A) A low ranking Naval Officer designated the role of liaising with the Guard

or

B) A Guard Officer designated the role of liaising with the Navy

I thought you were saying that it's understandable that the Guard and the Navy would be merged, if not then I apologise for misunderstanding your point.

Yeah i was just saying that naval officers have to do a joint tour, in which they are assigned to the army or USAF. But due to stuff mainly their going to the sandbox with the army. so we had the same point just went a different way.


No, but the guy with the headset can now call down fire on Loyalist troops without the guys on the ship being aware...

True.

Deus Mechanicus
01-01-2009, 20:39
It's a bummer they decided to drop the living bombs. I wouldn't have minded some suicide bombers for a Tallarn Al-Qaeda themed force i always wanted to do (so much metal...)

Jedi152
01-01-2009, 21:33
The mention of ratlings make me smile.

Scorpion
01-01-2009, 21:55
I'd promise that the Living Bombs won't be making a come back. Too horridly un-PC. Given the ability of the media to work people into a tizzy over nothing, the idea of teaching fine young upstanding citizens to play with toys glorifiying "blowing oneself up" for... well, anything really, wouldn't make it very far.

Except, perhaps, in the middle east...

Bregalad
01-01-2009, 22:12
Hastings just confirmed here (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3172128&postcount=145) that we will see the Codex, new Psykers and Ratlings in April. Maybe there is more to come, but he'll spill the beans when he's ready. ;)
Hastings just corrected himself: The IG release is beginning 2nd of May, as we all expected.

chaos0xomega
01-01-2009, 22:27
Just in time for me to ship off to field training :cries:

I'll be playing guardsman, but in a slightly different manner :wtf:

Damocles8
01-01-2009, 23:23
What in the nine hells are they going to release after Lizardmen and the Apocalypse book?

philbrad2
01-01-2009, 23:28
What in the nine hells are they going to release after Lizardmen and the Apocalypse book?


2nd wave of Deamons is due May(ish) and an expansion book for 40K might be Planetstrike might be the expanded missions book. After that could be Space Wolves/Dark Eldar/Necrons.

PhilB
:chrome:

Da Black Gobbo
01-01-2009, 23:59
So we'll se: 2nd ork wave--)Lord of the Ring "apocalypse"--)¿?¿¿¿??---)IG???

Damocles8
02-01-2009, 01:26
Jan: Orks 2nd
Feb: Lizardmen
March: Apocalypse part 3
April: ?????
May: IG

that's the last I heard anyway

zealot!
02-01-2009, 05:04
Apoc reload will prolly be May w/the Guard book so the Valkyrie coincides... you know they'll have a 500 valkyrie fleet or something in the book lol

Getifa Ubazza
02-01-2009, 05:55
I really hope they bring back the Griffin. It always felt more right for IG. They would be seriously cool in a city fight.

NotElite
02-01-2009, 06:04
I think I'm the only Gaurd player who thinks the griffon looked like an ogryn-sized chamber pot on the back of a Chimera.

There really isn't anything it could do in 5th edition that isn't covered by a bassie anyway. ..

synapse
02-01-2009, 06:08
its cheaper

starlight
02-01-2009, 06:14
...and has a shorter minimum indirect range.:)

Shangrila
02-01-2009, 08:16
I think I'm the only Gaurd player who thinks the griffon looked like an ogryn-sized chamber pot on the back of a Chimera.

There really isn't anything it could do in 5th edition that isn't covered by a bassie anyway. ..

I hate griffons and ratlings... you are not alone.

MajorWesJanson
02-01-2009, 09:07
I have one of the old metal griffon kits. It is pretty ugly. If it looked more like the FW one, on the other hand...

MrBigMr
02-01-2009, 11:23
I have one of the old metal griffon kits. It is pretty ugly. If it looked more like the FW one, on the other hand...
*Jedi mind trick*
It is gorgeous and you want to buy another metal griffon kit. From me.

I just got it because I needed a Chimera chassis and it was on sale.

fluffy05
02-01-2009, 11:41
The Griffon was great, and undervalued. Str 6, AP 4 Ordinance blast, and has a heavy bolter in the hull for secondary fire should the mortar get taken out; plus 12 front armor. Way better than a Whirlwind in both weaponry and armor, and for 5 points cheaper to boot. I'd love to see it brought back, and see people actually use it.

I used to use Griffon's all the time under the old Guard Codex. A fantastic tank. It really made me angry when they got rid of it from the codex :wtf: & no I am not interested in Imperial Armour FW books/models - far to expensive for me thanks.

I hope they bring the Griffon back. A great Work horse in my old Army list :D as well as being a great model.

Ironmonger
02-01-2009, 11:45
Just in time for me to ship off to field training :cries:

I'll be playing guardsman, but in a slightly different manner :wtf:

Just don't go bullet catching, eh?;)

MajorWesJanson
02-01-2009, 16:03
*Jedi mind trick*
It is gorgeous and you want to buy another metal griffon kit. From me.

I just got it because I needed a Chimera chassis and it was on sale.

I bought mine cause it has the old IG tank accessory sprue, with the box HK mount.

Sajuuk
02-01-2009, 16:13
Excuse me this little off topic but... what the hell is orks 2nd wave? ;) New codex? Just new models release?

Karnage
02-01-2009, 16:57
Excuse me this little off topic but... what the hell is orks 2nd wave? ;) New codex? Just new models release?

The Battlewagon, Characters, Nobs and Grots that you've already seen probably countless times already by now.

Putting it back on topic though, I think that if what I heard from Robin Cruddace back in September is still accurate and there are rules for 20 tanks in the new Guard book, then the Griffon would probably be making a comeback :D

NotElite
02-01-2009, 22:48
its cheaper
No points costs are a given. They could make it cost the same/more. Sounds more like wishing for "the old days"


...and has a shorter minimum indirect range.:)
Which barely matters considering area terrain doesn't block LOS anymore.

It would have to have inferno shells or whatever to ignore cover to be useful, and they could just give that to the bassie too.

esk34
02-01-2009, 22:53
Which barely matters considering area terrain doesn't block LOS anymore.

It would have to have inferno shells or whatever to ignore cover to be useful, and they could just give that to the bassie too.

Doesn't everything pretty much block line of sight now. (if it is big enouh that is.)
Most of the 5th ed games I've played, indirect fire is still very relevant, and shorter min range would leave me with better deployment options that are not so vunrable to scouts.... etc.

loveless
02-01-2009, 22:56
It would have to have inferno shells or whatever to ignore cover to be useful, and they could just give that to the bassie too.

Psh, why give everything to one tank when you could divide it between two? Tanks for the Tank God.

MrBigMr
02-01-2009, 23:12
It would have to have inferno shells or whatever to ignore cover to be useful, and they could just give that to the bassie too.
Because mortars and cannons are different types of weapons?

I've heard of a wide variety of mortar shells, ranging even to various incendiary devices, but I've yet to come across cannon shells that worked the same way. Most have a quite limited effect and not at all the widespread destruction that something like the inferno shell includes. Most incendiary cannon shells I've read about, are for AT work, detonating inside the tank to kill the crew, rather than laying waste to everything for several meters around the point of impact.

chaos0xomega
03-01-2009, 00:02
Just don't go bullet catching, eh?;)

Silly :rolleyes:

I can only do that once :D

So 20/21 tanks, lets see if we can list some of these off:

1.Chimera
2. Hellhound
3. Basilisk
4. Salamander
5. Destroyer Tank Hunter
6. Thunderer
7. Griffon
8. Leman Russ MBT
9. Leman Russ Demolisher
10. Leman Russ Exterminator
11. Leman Russ Annihilator
12. Leman Russ Executioner
13. Leman Russ Vanquisher
14. Leman Russ Conqueror
15. Medusa
16. Hydra
17. Manticore
18. Bombard
19. Centaur
20. ???
21. Unnamed 5ed Rulebook Russ Variant

A few of those are a bit of a stretch...

starlight
03-01-2009, 00:27
I think it's more likely to see Chimera and Russ variants that only require minor weapons swaps.

Chimedon, Chimerax, etc.

There are many that can be done with minor swaps (Bas to Griffon, etc) so these become more likely than others which would be full kits like the Hydra.

chaos0xomega
03-01-2009, 01:13
The Hydra and Manticore are Chimera's with different turret systems ala the skyray. If they gave us tau players a (worthless IMO) skyray instead of the multitude of alternative weapon systems available on the forgeworld site (which could have been easily modified to fit the GW turret), then I don't see why it's so hard to believe that guard might see Hydra's and Manticores (with the exception of their rules..., but the skyray was meant to be an anti-air vehicle like the hydra and Manti are... and look what they did to it).

Alternatively the Manticore/Hydra might be Siegfrieds/Ragnarok's , but I find that less likely as I see that as requiring a whole new kit rather than a weapons swap.

The Chimerradon, Chimerax, and Chimerro are possiblities, but lame ones if you ask me (for those that don't know, one has a battlecannon, one has 4 autocannons, and the other has a hnter killer missile in addition to its standard armament in the turret).

RichBlake
03-01-2009, 01:31
Silly :rolleyes:

I can only do that once :D

So 20/21 tanks, lets see if we can list some of these off:

1.Chimera
2. Hellhound
3. Basilisk
4. Salamander
5. Destroyer Tank Hunter
6. Thunderer
7. Griffon
8. Leman Russ MBT
9. Leman Russ Demolisher
10. Leman Russ Exterminator
11. Leman Russ Annihilator
12. Leman Russ Executioner
13. Leman Russ Vanquisher
14. Leman Russ Conqueror
15. Medusa
16. Hydra
17. Manticore
18. Bombard
19. Centaur
20. ???
21. Unnamed 5ed Rulebook Russ Variant

A few of those are a bit of a stretch...


It's more likley to be:

1) Chimera w/ Multilaser
2) Chimera w/ Autocannon
3) Chimera w/ Heavy Bolters
4) Leman Russ w/ Lascannon + Heavy Bolters
5) Leman Russ w/ Heavy Bolter + Heavy Bolters
6) Leman Russ w/ Lascannon + Heavy Flamers
7) Leman Russ w/ Lascannon
8) Leman Russ w/ Heavy Bolter
9) Leman Russ Demolisher w/ Heavy Bolter + Heavy Bolters
10) Leman Russ Demolisher w/ Lascannon + Heavy Flamers
11) Leman Russ Demolisher w/ Heavy Bolter + Plasma Cannons
12) Leman Russ Demolisher w/ Lascannon + Plasma Cannons
13) Leman Russ Demolisher w/ Lascannon + Multi Meltas
14) Leman Russ Demolisher w/ Heavy Bolter + Multi Meltas
15) Leman Russ Demolisher w/ Heavy Bolter
16) Leman Russ Demolisher w/ Lascannon
17) New Leman Russ w/ option 1 + sponsons 1
18) New Leman Russ w/ option 2 + sponsons 1
19) New Leman Russ w/ option 1 + sponsons 2
20) New Leman Russ w/ option 2 + sponsons 2
21) New Leman Russ w/ option 1
22) New Leman Russ w/ option 2
23) Hellhound
24) Basilisk
25) Griffon
26) Valkyrie (technically)


WOW look at that! An amazing 26 different tanks! :P

Remember expect the worst but hope for the best, that's what I say. Prepare for disappointment and you'll either be right or pleasantly surprised!

(Not that getting a new Russ Variant, the re-introduction of the Griffon and the Valkyrie is bad mind you, just not as high as some hopes).

shabbadoo
03-01-2009, 02:15
Rich Blake is on the right track here folks. Think *CONFIGURATIONS* instead of "variants".

Mr Kibbles
03-01-2009, 02:38
Sweeeeet! I'll be able to use my Vanquisher and convert myself an exterminator!!

RichBlake
03-01-2009, 03:14
Rich Blake is on the right track here folks. Think *CONFIGURATIONS* instead of "variants".



Don't get me wrong, I'm hoping like hell I'm wrong and there are actually 21 different tanks, though personally I really couldn't see a use for all 21, I don't even particularly fancy any of the specialist Forge World tanks when the Demolisher pretty much kills everything in it's own right :P

I just very highly doubt that there will be 21 different tanks, probably 20+ different load outs like I suggested.

There are in the list I said: A Leman Russ, Leman Russ Demolisher, Leman Russ To Be Named, Basilisk, Chimera, Griffon, Hellhound if you throw vehicles into the works you also get: Sentinels and a Valkyrie

That's 9 different types of vehicles there, quite a lot to be honest, especially combined with the variety of sponsons you can give each one. Personally I would like to see more then 7 types of tanks, but at the moment GW is rumoured to be producing:

A re-cut Leman Russ kit with all variations (same/similar model, different sprue configurations)
A Griffon kit (Chimera chassis as standard + griffon stuff)
A Valkyrie kit (that's never before been done)
A Cadian Command kit (plastic Cadians for reference, and Baneblade commander, so somewhere easy to start)
A Catachan Command kit (If it's actually good they will only have the H. Weapons teams to go off, not ideal but it's something)
New Metal Ratlings (probably similar to old ones)
New Sanctioned Psykers (see above)
Plastic Stormtroopers (haven't seen pictures but may be similar to kasrkin, may not)
Re-cut sentinel kits
Plastic Hellhound
Re-cut Chimera?
And the Codex

Sorry if I sound like I'm underestimating GW but since the Guard aren't the only army they have to work on I don't think they could do all that, plus another 15 or so tanks that forgeworld do and do everyone else too :P

Yes some of the stuff is adding to, evolving from or re-jigging old stuff but there are going to be a fair amount of totally brand new plastic bits too.

starlight
03-01-2009, 03:18
Do remember that the standard is now to do multiple *waves*, so it doesn't all have to be ready when the Codex is released... ;)

chaos0xomega
03-01-2009, 03:18
Configurations and Variants are the same thing. Take a look at a possible sample entry:

Leman Russ: FA SA RA Points
Weapons: Battlecannon and Hull-mounted Heavy Bolter
Options: May replace Hull-mounted Heavy Bolter w/ x for +x points, y for +y points, or z for +z points. May purchase x sponsons for +x points, y sponsons for +y points, or z sponsons for + z points.

In addition, a Leman Russ Variant can be fielded instead:
Vanquisher: Replace Battlecannon with Vanquisher Battlecannon for +x points
Exterminator: Replace Battlecannon with Twin-Linked Heavy Boltes for +y points
Conqueror: Replace Battlecannon with Conqueror Cannon and co-axial Heavy Bolter for +z points
Annihilator: Replace Battlecannon with Twin-Linked Lascannons for +x1 points
Executioner: Replace Battlecannon with Plasma Cannon for +Y1 points

Only Russ variant IIRC that this wont work with is the demolisher, as it has different sponsons options and armor loadout (in which case we might see a variant or two based off of the Demolisher instead of the LRBT).

Bassie also works the same way:
Self Propelled Artillery: FA SA RA Points
Weapons: Hull-mounted Heavy Bolter and one of the following:
Griffon: Heavy Mortar for +x points
Basilisk: Earthshaker Cannon for +y points
Medusa: Medusa Siege Gun for +z points
Bombard: Bombard Heavy Siege Mortar for +x1 points

and chimera:
Chimera Armored Personnel Carrier: FA SA RA Points
Weapons: Multilaser and Hull Mounted Heavy Bolter
Options: May field a variant instead:
Chimeraddon: Replace Multilaser with Battlecannon and remove Transport capability for +x points
Chimerax: Replace Multilaser with 2 Twin-linked Autocannons +y points
Chimerro: Replace Multilaser with Multilaser and Missile Launcher(more interesting than Hunter Killer IMO) +z points

Right there thats 14 "unique" vehicles from 3 codex entries, and I'm sure the same principles can be applied elsewhere.


Don't get me wrong, I'm hoping like hell I'm wrong and there are actually 21 different tanks, though personally I really couldn't see a use for all 21, I don't even particularly fancy any of the specialist Forge World tanks when the Demolisher pretty much kills everything in it's own right :P

I just very highly doubt that there will be 21 different tanks, probably 20+ different load outs like I suggested.

There are in the list I said: A Leman Russ, Leman Russ Demolisher, Leman Russ To Be Named, Basilisk, Chimera, Griffon, Hellhound if you throw vehicles into the works you also get: Sentinels and a Valkyrie

That's 9 different types of vehicles there, quite a lot to be honest, especially combined with the variety of sponsons you can give each one. Personally I would like to see more then 7 types of tanks, but at the moment GW is rumoured to be producing:

A re-cut Leman Russ kit with all variations (same/similar model, different sprue configurations)
A Griffon kit (Chimera chassis as standard + griffon stuff)
A Valkyrie kit (that's never before been done)
A Cadian Command kit (plastic Cadians for reference, and Baneblade commander, so somewhere easy to start)
A Catachan Command kit (If it's actually good they will only have the H. Weapons teams to go off, not ideal but it's something)
New Metal Ratlings (probably similar to old ones)
New Sanctioned Psykers (see above)
Plastic Stormtroopers (haven't seen pictures but may be similar to kasrkin, may not)
Re-cut sentinel kits
Plastic Hellhound
Re-cut Chimera?
And the Codex

Sorry if I sound like I'm underestimating GW but since the Guard aren't the only army they have to work on I don't think they could do all that, plus another 15 or so tanks that forgeworld do and do everyone else too :P

Yes some of the stuff is adding to, evolving from or re-jigging old stuff but there are going to be a fair amount of totally brand new plastic bits too.

Re-cut Leman Russ kit could easily accomodate the Leman Russ + all variants (including Demolisher) with zero increase in price.

A "Griffon Kit" could just as easily be a bassie kit with weapon options for the Griffon cannon (as its a basilisk variant not a chimera variant), as well as Bombards/Medusa's

The Chimera kit could likewise be made to accomodate the 3 chimera variants OR have the options for the Hellhound contained within.

Shibboleth
03-01-2009, 06:41
...at the moment GW is rumoured to be producing:

A re-cut Leman Russ kit with all variations (same/similar model, different sprue configurations)
A Griffon kit (Chimera chassis as standard + griffon stuff)
A Valkyrie kit (that's never before been done)
A Cadian Command kit (plastic Cadians for reference, and Baneblade commander, so somewhere easy to start)
A Catachan Command kit (If it's actually good they will only have the H. Weapons teams to go off, not ideal but it's something)
New Metal Ratlings (probably similar to old ones)
New Sanctioned Psykers (see above)
Plastic Stormtroopers (haven't seen pictures but may be similar to kasrkin, may not)
Re-cut sentinel kits
Plastic Hellhound
Re-cut Chimera?
And the CodexThere's also the rumour of basic troop sprues being recut to 10 men with Heavy Weapon in one box, like Eldar Guardians got.

laudarkul
03-01-2009, 08:21
There's also the rumour of basic troop sprues being recut to 10 men with Heavy Weapon in one box, like Eldar Guardians got.

Hummmm...I would prefer the battleforce to be the same and the basic troopt sprue to contain 20 men.

RichBlake
03-01-2009, 14:02
There's also the rumour of basic troop sprues being recut to 10 men with Heavy Weapon in one box, like Eldar Guardians got.

Oh yeah and that one, I think I must have sub consciously forgot that one because I think it's a horrible idea :P

MrBigMr
03-01-2009, 14:26
Oh yeah and that one, I think I must have sub consciously forgot that one because I think it's a horrible idea :P
But, most likely, the most accurate one. Lets face it, Guardians, Boyz and even WHFB skeletons have gone from big boxes into 10 man ones. I can understand Guardians, but stuff like skeletons, which need to be fielded by the bunch and you even need extra models on top of what you'll field, as you can and should summon more of them, just seems wrong. How many 10 Skeleton units with full comman are people gonna fields. Feels like paying for extra stuff for nothing.

It would have been better to leave the "extra bitz" for special boxes. Or release bulk unit boxes, like 20 stock Cadians, 20 stock Boyz, 20 Skeletons, 20 Guardians, etc. for £18 or something, where as the units that come with nobs, sergeants, special weapon options, command models, etc. would have 10 models and cost £12.

But I guess my rambling is just that. Surely GW has done the mathhammering on the subject.

RichBlake
03-01-2009, 14:38
The precendece is quite scary.

I've already figured out it will be more expensive to buy Guardsmen and Heavy Weapons then it currently is, can't remember the maths right now, nor can i be bothered to go over it).

If I can get away with it I avoid fielding heavy weapons with infantry squads as it slows them down and simply creates a static gun line. I much prefer covering fire from heavy weapons while the infantry advance. Not to mention fluff wise a heavy weapon in every squad is extremely dodgy.

The MOST irritating thing about it though is that you will be unable to create a ten man squad of normal guardsmen from the box unless you forsake a heavy weapon which will mean buying the horrid 5 man box Cadians or something to fill the gaps, and those models are shocking.

I'm hoping that with 4 point Guardsmen they are trying to make guardsmen truly expendable. If conscripts die no-one cares and it should be the same with guardsmen (tbh I don't care if my Guardsmen die but that's just me). However if you start selling Guardsmen in sets of 10 and give everyone a heavy weapon you're not going to do what I was planning on doing if assault 2 lasguns were true (i.e shoot the avatar, assault the avatar with the squad. Squad dies. Repeat) because you can't get a really good number of Guardsmen going.

Tbh if the rumour is confirmed I'll go out and buy 8 boxes of Cadians and that will sort me good and proper. 160 Guardsmen will take a while to paint :P

esk34
03-01-2009, 14:42
I think the idea of 10 men with heavy weapons in the box is great, as long as they dont charge the full price for the box. Do like the orks have done with there price drop (well not really a real drop, but you do pay less for the box.) and I would definitly pick up a couple of boxes.

I know they may be more expensive this way, however the way that I am buying stuff latley (a box or 2 at a time) it will be easier for me.

It would be nice if tey left the box of 20 they had on the market though, so you had the choice.

MrBigMr
03-01-2009, 14:50
The MOST irritating thing about it though is that you will be unable to create a ten man squad of normal guardsmen from the box unless you forsake a heavy weapon which will mean buying the horrid 5 man box Cadians or something to fill the gaps, and those models are shocking.
How can't you turn the heavy weapons team into normal Marines? All the other boxes allow you to make all the models in them as basic infantry, if you wish. All they need are different arms. With the current set, you can create at least 3 different heavy weapons teams from a single HW box set with some stock trooper. Mortar, missile launcher (if you forego the bipod, which is a little daft to me anyays) and a HB/Lascannon/Autocannon.

Lungboy
03-01-2009, 15:40
what would we need IG bikes for if we have cav?

For Genestealer Cultists of course!

Xandros
03-01-2009, 17:32
Do remember that the standard is now to do multiple *waves*, so it doesn't all have to be ready when the Codex is released... ;)

I often get the feeling people think that history is bound to stop repeating itself. Either that or short memory spans.

On december 30th I voiced concerns of aching leg muscles to my family, fearing the onset of flu. Preposterous, they said: You got flu in your legs?

I am now feeling better albeit oozing more slime than a beast of nurgle :eyebrows:

MrBigMr
03-01-2009, 17:39
In the fluff, there are IG bikers. In Pawns of Chaos they are used to scout ahead of the main force. Besides, a good bike is far faster than a horse, but fighting horseback should give you other advantages, maybe extra attack (like how seekers of Slaanesh get extra attack over normal daemonettes) or Furious Charge, presenting the heavy horse crashing into the enemy rank.

I would make cavalry into CC specialist force and bikers into a more shooty unit with sidecar heavy weapons and more special weapons. Look into your heart, how is a zündapp with a heavy stubber not fit for the Guard in any shape or form? How more WW1-2 can you be?

MajorWesJanson
03-01-2009, 18:20
Given that the recut guard will have heavy weapons in the starter box, maybe flamers and missiles/heavy bolters will become free upgrades like Marines got? Or built into the price of the squad, i.e. 50 points for a squad of 10 plus a free flamer and HW upgrade.

chaos0xomega
03-01-2009, 18:51
Yeah, because you know, I want flamers and missile launchers in my guard squads, thats a real useful points efficient combination right there, not...

Marneus Calgar
03-01-2009, 18:57
I was fearing that we might get a 10 man box instead of our 20. I am thankful that at least they are adding a heavy weapon inside that 10 man box. With the direction GW has been going (sneaking price increases), I would rather have my 20 guardsmen for $35 US instead of 10 guardsmen for $22 US.

Redeemer1988
03-01-2009, 18:57
Yeah, because you know, I want flamers and missile launchers in my guard squads, thats a real useful points efficient combination right there, not...

I'll take your flamer and give you one extra lasgun if you don't want it :)

MrBigMr
03-01-2009, 19:04
I doubt IG will get free upgrades. Orks nor Eldar do either. To a Marine a flamer is just a template bolter, which in shooty units is not worth it really, where as to a guardsman with lower BS and crappier stock weapon, a free flamer is a gift from heaven. Heavy bolter and missile for free is a little too rich for my, but I guess nothing's too good for Big Daddy GW's little baby boy...

I'm hoping we get squad heavy stubbers.

victorpofa
03-01-2009, 19:14
Exterminator: Replace Battlecannon with Twin-Linked Heavy Boltes for +y points


That's Twin-Linked Autocannons. Much better for light tank duty as well as anti-horde with the three heavy bolters you can get. Hopefully the Russ will have a work around to the defensive weapon issue and heavy bolters. Maybe a stabilization upgrade. :cool:

As far as the re-cut Guardsman sprue is concerned I feel it is more likely that they will just add meltagun and plasmagun arms to the guard sprue rather than heavy weapon teams. It also depends on how platoons are redone. If they heavily encourage heavy weapons in line guard squads then perhaps they will combine the two sets.

I predict 10 guardsmen with all special weapons and sergeant upgrade bits for $15 (like Grots). Slightly cheaper than current and eliminates the metal meltagun and plasmagun blister. The Orks went from 16 for $35 ($2.19 per Ork) to 10+Nob and big shoota/rokkit launcha bits for $22 ($2.20 per Ork plus Nob and heavy weapon upgrades) so this is not unreasonable. If the box is $22 for 10 there better be a Heavy Weapon team in there as well as 10 Guardsmen. ;)

The tank situation is a bit iffy and I look forward to more concrete information. Right now it could go either direction with lots of new kits over the next few years, or just a bunch of weapon swaps to make up the numbers quoted from the codex author. I really want to see the return of the old 2E variants in plastic. Especially the Exterminator and Griffon which I picked up off Ebay. Currently the Exterminator is seconded to my Space Wolves, and the Griffon serves as a counts-as Basilisk.


I'm hoping we get squad heavy stubbers.

This is on my wishlist too.

Idaan
03-01-2009, 20:26
For anything that matters I second the wish for squad heavy stubbers. They'd be a godsend for my planned WWI trench Tommy army as an ideal counts-as for Lewis machine guns.

Max1mum
03-01-2009, 21:08
...sneaky price increase ?! ...

17.50 Euro for 5 chaos knights as apose to 50 euros....

...offcourse this is for fantasy ..but still. Credit for GW where credit is due please.
..and i'm going to stick with one example, because i'm sure your smart enough to figure out the many other examples out there.


Anyway I don't want new recut infantry..i'm happy with my guys as they are :P, give more cool special stuff ;) ..i do not want to have to paint 80 guys up again :P.

and to throw in my score for rumours....not sure if its here, but ...mini vulcan mega bolter. Does that ring bells to anybody ? ;-)

MajorWesJanson
03-01-2009, 21:09
Just because an upgrade is free doesnt mean you have to take it.

Free weapons woudl be nice, but you are right, and they are not that likely.

Heavy stubbers show up a lot in Kreig, and they already exist as tank upgrades. I can see it being easy to modify to use the HW tripod in place of the tank mount.




and to throw in my score for rumours....not sure if its here, but ...mini vulcan mega bolter. Does that ring bells to anybody ? ;-)

AKA Assault Cannon?

Gorbad Ironclaw
03-01-2009, 21:37
Heavy bolter and missile for free is a little too rich for my, but I guess nothing's too good for Big Daddy GW's little baby boy...



Well they did increase the price of your basic marine as well, so I do believe that the price of a Marine squad with Heavy Bolter and Flamer is priced at the same as it used to be. You just pay for it in a different way.

MrBigMr
03-01-2009, 22:07
Well they did increase the price of your basic marine as well, so I do believe that the price of a Marine squad with Heavy Bolter and Flamer is priced at the same as it used to be. You just pay for it in a different way.
I assumed the price increase came from the fact that stock marines get BP, grenades, combat tactics and combat squad for the low, low price of 1pts. per model.

So having to pay 5pts. for a flamer and 5-10pts. for a HB, MM, ML on top of that doesn't seem that absurd really. Maybe it's just GW's way of encouraging people to use other options than the old las/plas, not to forget how nice plasma cannon is these days with the scattering blast marker. I know I would field them more if they would fit my army fluff better.

I just get the feeling of GW pushing stuff on us we don't need, like Iron Halos and such. Even as a free upgrade, I most likely wouldn't have taken an iron halo for my commander. Not to forget that it makes terminator almost worthless.


...sneaky price increase ?! ...

17.50 Euro for 5 chaos knights as apose to 50 euros....

...offcourse this is for fantasy ..but still. Credit for GW where credit is due please.
..and i'm going to stick with one example, because i'm sure your smart enough to figure out the many other examples out there.
Yes, but ask yourself this: How much cheaper is it to make plastic models than metal ones?

chaos0xomega
03-01-2009, 23:56
I'll take your flamer and give you one extra lasgun if you don't want it :)

Plasma only please. I prefer weapons that augment the capability of the rest of my unit, not ones that don't mesh. Flamers for instance, can't be used until I'm within 8 inches of the enemy. Missile Launchers, yes they can be used against troops in their frag configuration, but I feel heavy bolters do the job better for the cost in comparison. Using them in krak mode to kll tanks effectively wastes the rest of the squad's firepower (which is why I take all my anti-tank capability in the form of anti-tank and fire support squads attached to the command platoon).



I'm hoping we get squad heavy stubbers.

Never really understood what the love of the heavy stubber was. Can someone please explain this to me? Isn't it just a heavy 3 hellgun? Why not just take a heavy bolter?


That's Twin-Linked Autocannons. Much better for light tank duty as well as anti-horde with the three heavy bolters you can get. Hopefully the Russ will have a work around to the defensive weapon issue and heavy bolters. Maybe a stabilization upgrade.

Ah yes. My mistake, and I agree.


For anything that matters I second the wish for squad heavy stubbers. They'd be a godsend for my planned WWI trench Tommy army as an ideal counts-as for Lewis machine guns.

Or you can just counts-as them as heavy bolter?

Figmaniac
04-01-2009, 01:56
So, being new to the discussion, but just having laid out WAY too much dough over the past couple months acquiring a full Elysian company - most interested in the Valkyrie, but also in the existence of specialized units like drop troops. Anyone heard anything? :confused:

RichBlake
04-01-2009, 02:22
How can't you turn the heavy weapons team into normal Marines? All the other boxes allow you to make all the models in them as basic infantry, if you wish. All they need are different arms. With the current set, you can create at least 3 different heavy weapons teams from a single HW box set with some stock trooper. Mortar, missile launcher (if you forego the bipod, which is a little daft to me anyays) and a HB/Lascannon/Autocannon.

I meant that lets assume the new kits are:

8 Standing legs
10 Bodies
10 heads
1 set of gunners arms for HB/LC/AC
1 set of gunner arms for ML
1 laspistol
1 CC weapon
1 Flamer
1 Grenade Launcher
8 lasguns + arms
1 Heavy Bolter
1 Autocannon
1 Lascannon
1 tripod for HB/AC/LC
1 tripod for ML
2 kneeling legs

That means to make 10 guardsmen two of them will be kneeling and by giving them lasguns you wont be able to make a heavy weapons team (as the kneeling gunners have lasguns).

The only way I can see around it is if the heavy weapon is on one base then the two gunners are on two separate bases like Eldar Guardians. That would be a bit better as it would be: Ten Guardsmen and a heavy weapon rather then 8 guardsmen and two guardsmen stuck on a big base with a H weapon.

However I haven't heard any rumours of new heavy weapons teams.

chaos0xomega
04-01-2009, 02:23
I'd imagine the option to deep strike your infantry squads/platoons will still be an option (whether for free or for extra pointage or through a special character etc.), but as of now, valkyries are rumored to be a stormtrooper only transport option.

RichBlake, what makes you assume that they're going to continue the 60mm bases for heavy weapons teams? Rules pertaining to that have always caused a bit of confusion (does it count as one model or two, do both of them count as being equipped with a different weapon than the rest of the squad for wound allocation purposes, etc.)

Flightleader
04-01-2009, 02:52
RichBlake, what makes you assume that they're going to continue the 60mm bases for heavy weapons teams? Rules pertaining to that have always caused a bit of confusion (does it count as one model or two, do both of them count as being equipped with a different weapon than the rest of the squad for wound allocation purposes, etc.)

The FAQ states that you should imagine a 25mm base around each of the figures on the base and that common sense is needed when doing this. I'm surprised the MRB doesn't adress this, and why multibasing isn't mentioned at all.

Anyways, as for rumours and such The stuff i've heard is 16 tank varients, a plastic Valk for sure and march for release date of new codex. Local GW folks have said cryptic things like "don't by Death Korps something in plastic next year" but honestly greatcoat guard is something that will have to be seen to be believed.

What surprises me is that by now, usually, most rumours have verified and we have pictures... And yet all I see is alot of wishlisting. Why are guard players so bitter? I don't see Dark Eldar players wishlisting nearly as much.. not even Space Marine players.

Anyways, my 2 cents worth.

Cheers,

Flightleader

Phangry
04-01-2009, 06:43
Marine players don't have the time to wishlist, by the time they've read their new codex, the next one is already on the shelves.

MajorWesJanson
04-01-2009, 06:49
Greatcoat guard seems like a good second wave thing. First wave has the codex, valkeryes, and command squads as big draws, second wave needs more than just some recut vehicles.

vladsimpaler
04-01-2009, 08:14
What surprises me is that by now, usually, most rumours have verified and we have pictures... And yet all I see is alot of wishlisting. Why are guard players so bitter? I don't see Dark Eldar players wishlisting nearly as much.. not even Space Marine players.


Pfft. To heck with the Space Marine players.:rolleyes:

As for Dark Eldar, well, at least their codex is good.

Ours sucks, two cruddy codices in a row, and we have stuff taken from us and given to the Spais Mureenz Hurr!

Guard players are bitter because not only does our codex stink, but it's a shadow of what the IG once was, and we want some justice. But maybe that's just me.

Logarithm Udgaur
04-01-2009, 09:40
Why are guard players so bitter?

My money is on having the must rubbish army list in the game.

Iverald
04-01-2009, 10:18
On a recent tourney I saw Guard slaughtering Marines and the Marine player has won some battles before he was exterminated, so he was not a total newbie.

t-tauri
04-01-2009, 10:38
Let's get this on topic please otherwise it will be closed. Please take the wishlisting to one of the threads in 40k general.

MrBigMr
04-01-2009, 10:50
Never really understood what the love of the heavy stubber was. Can someone please explain this to me? Isn't it just a heavy 3 hellgun?
No, it isn't.


Why not just take a heavy bolter?
Because a heavy bolter is a large caliber automatic rocket launcher, rather than a heavy machine gun. It's the feel of the thing. One wouldn't field a revolver as a plasma gun. Or a battle cannon as an autocannon.


I meant that lets assume the new kits are:

8 Standing legs
10 Bodies
10 heads
1 set of gunners arms for HB/LC/AC
1 set of gunner arms for ML
1 laspistol
1 CC weapon
1 Flamer
1 Grenade Launcher
8 lasguns + arms
1 Heavy Bolter
1 Autocannon
1 Lascannon
1 tripod for HB/AC/LC
1 tripod for ML
2 kneeling legs

That means to make 10 guardsmen two of them will be kneeling and by giving them lasguns you wont be able to make a heavy weapons team (as the kneeling gunners have lasguns).
Or give the box 10 standing legs and 2 kneeling ones, but limit the torsos and heads so that you can only squeeze 10 models out of it without extra bits. I mean, the Eldar Dire Avenger box can make either 10 DA or 9 DA and an Exarch, who has his own torso, arms and head. So if you could get one extra pair of legs, the box could make 11 models. It's quite common for GW to limit the number of models per box by liming legs or torsos.

Then again, the SM tac Marine box doesn't come with other HW than the missile launcher. It is possible that GW would release the IG box at £18-20 with 20 models and all special weapons (maybe as a seperate "command sprue" that contains special weapons and sergeant upgrades), without any HWs. Possible. Mostly I'm thinking so because IG has to have 2 squad minimum per Troop slot. So a box of troops and a command squad box would also seems like a proper set. They could also make 10 guardsmen + a Chimera armoured fist boxes.

T_55
04-01-2009, 10:58
On a recent tourney I saw Guard slaughtering Marines and the Marine player has won some battles before he was exterminated, so he was not a total newbie.

Well the other day i saw a marine army slaughter a guardsmen army...

In other news i'm wondering whether or not they'll make a new griffon model or just re-release the old conversion kit. With the chimera apparently dropping in price as well do you think other tanks will? Bell of Lost Souls has also posted up a few more rumours.

Idaan
04-01-2009, 13:31
Why not just take a heavy bolter?
Because a heavy bolter is a large caliber automatic rocket launcher, rather than a heavy machine gun. It's the feel of the thing. One wouldn't field a revolver as a plasma gun. Or a battle cannon as an autocannon.
That, and heavy bolter is more like Vickers HMG.
And besides, I think Guard really lacks a squad based LMG able to augment squad's shooting with some let's say AP5 shots at low points cost. Not necessarily a heavy stubber, but some kind of minigun or LMG would be nice. Wasn't such a thing mentioned in the Gaunt's Ghosts novels?

MrBigMr
04-01-2009, 13:54
That, and heavy bolter is more like Vickers HMG.
Vickers? More like GMGs. How does this (http://www.ttgnet.com/images/gmgcover.jpg) not remind anyone of a heavy bolter?


Wasn't such a thing mentioned in the Gaunt's Ghosts novels?
Fluff say a lot of things. There's plenty of miniguns in the artwork and some novels even mention them (and these are not assault cannons, but more down to earth kind of things), but you rarely see everything transferred to the game itself.

Scorpion
04-01-2009, 15:11
I did the math, and TL Heavy Stubbers are actually (fractionally) better against MEQs than Heavy Bolters...

Getifa Ubazza
04-01-2009, 15:16
Im happy that the IG are getting a new Codex soon. All i ask is that my army isnt messed up by it. I have a Tallarn army, that has taken along time to put together and although i rarely use it. I would still like to be able too. I cant just go out and get new stuff for it.

Anaxagoras
04-01-2009, 16:28
Im happy that the IG are getting a new Codex soon. All i ask is that my army isnt messed up by it. I have a Tallarn army, that has taken along time to put together and although i rarely use it. I would still like to be able too. I cant just go out and get new stuff for it.

Ditto this...I have a Mordian army that also took years...I'll gladly buy more for it, if GW will just get the damn codex out.

t-tauri
04-01-2009, 16:34
Thread off to 40k general. No discussion of the rumours.