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High speed low drag
02-01-2009, 23:10
Hi guys and gals i was wondering who you all thought was the best single model shot in 40k, the choice can be from any army, must be under 5th ed rules and must be a single model, that is to say if you were to take eldar rangers or SM snipers, please compare these teams of 5 - 10 as only 1 man teams so 1 eldar vs 1 SM ect, thanks

Frep
02-01-2009, 23:14
I guess I'd have to say an eldar autarch with deathspinner, but for a non-HQ choice I would have to say a sternguarf veteren, only BS 4 but his special ammo will mess anyone up.

Damocles8
02-01-2009, 23:15
Telion....kinda designed to be the best shot in 5th.....

GimpMaster
02-01-2009, 23:21
um...the best shot?

i would say an obliterator...they can do everything

Chaplain Nikolai
02-01-2009, 23:25
What about the Vindicare? An AP 2 sniper and with a bunch of special ammmo.

Surgency
02-01-2009, 23:38
unless I miss my mark (which is probably the case) really isn't that good, as he misses half the time... of course, last time I tried to use a vindicare was 4 years ago, so I could be wrong...

I'd have to say a Chp. Master tooled up to shoot. Most of the special ammo types of Sternguard vets are available, and he has a pretty decent BS as well...

MajorWesJanson
03-01-2009, 00:37
Aren't Vindicares BS5?

Hopefully they get bumped up to 6-7 next time around, since Telion is a 6 and he is a scout, not a sniper assassin.

Surgency
03-01-2009, 01:09
ahh, I mixed up the rules for the VSR. It hits on a 2+, but only wounds on a 4+ And his special ammo isn't all that great, each one is only a 1 use item. The Hellfire wounds on a 2+, but the other 2 ammo types are going to do nothing 50% of the time, so you have a (slightly less than) 66% chance of doing damage

Orkeosaurus
03-01-2009, 01:16
Big Mek with a Shokk Attack Gun?

Or do you mean aim?

Bunnahabhain
03-01-2009, 02:26
Maugan Ra.

The nigh-on Immortal embodyment of hundreds of generations of training, and the very best man portable technology available to the Eldar. Now that's not just a very good shot, it's probably the best shot possible in the 40K setting. Surely that must exceed even the very best Vindicare assassin or marine, who, after all, are still mainly human.

Alternativley, any one of a number of psyker, C'tan and such like. They can never miss, as they just move the target into the way of the shot if needs be.........

Noserenda
03-01-2009, 02:37
Tellion or Maughn Rar, id lean towards Tellion as he is just a Sniper while Rar is also a Badass hand to hand and being an omen of doom keeps him busy :D

Vindicare are cool, but faceless, which kinda loses them "best" points :chrome:

Lord Inquisitor
03-01-2009, 02:42
Maugan Ra again.

While in background terms the Vindicare temple of assassins are absolutely undoubtably the "best shots" in the Imperium (although in the game that upstart Tellion has a higher BS), Maugan Ra has to be the contender for #1. With millenia of experience, there is none known that could possibly match his skill for ranged weapons, not even the other phoenix lords. Plus, with BS7, he really does have the highest BS in the game!

Orkeosaurus
03-01-2009, 04:00
How about Tzeentch?
He knows everything, so he can probably hit everything.
He'll shoot a bullet in a random direction, and 50 years later you'll choke on it your sleep.

vladsimpaler
03-01-2009, 05:59
Another vote for Maugan Ra.

BS7=Ownage.

Maugan Ra would make Telion soil his old man pants.


But out of game terms, probably a C'tan or Tzeentch or something like that.

Ser_Spazz
03-01-2009, 07:42
I'll vote for Telion, but on a side note, why hasn't anyone mentioned the Master of the Forge with his conversion beamer. Prolly the single person shot in the game with some awfully cataclysmic results for longer range.

laudarkul
03-01-2009, 07:49
1)Vindicare= can make a day worse
1a)Telion=damn well good

kikkoman
03-01-2009, 08:45
Maugan Ra

the other contenders use scoped sniper rifles

Maugan Ra wields a gigantic cannon that fires discs known for poor range and inaccuracy, and the monster killing scythe at the end probably does little for stability.

djinn8
03-01-2009, 10:50
Not a singel model in the respect I think his thread means, but Basilik Earth-Shaker Cannons are the best weapon in the game.

A strength 10, AP 1, Pinning, Pie Plate that can hit pretty much anywhere on the table without line of sight.... WTF!!

Doomseer
03-01-2009, 11:14
I'd say its either Fuegan or Maugan Ra.

Autarchs and Tzeentch Heralds are also very good.

Gen.Steiner
03-01-2009, 11:16
Not a singel model in the respect I think his thread means, but Basilik Earth-Shaker Cannons are the best weapon in the game

Urm. No. Titan weapons are better. ;)

Another vote for Maugan Ra from me, too. Eldar might be vile xenos scum but by crikey can they do war well! Oops, excuse me while I go and repent for my sin. The Emperor protects!

Edzard
03-01-2009, 11:25
The Emperor is the best shot. Doh!

Lavadude360
03-01-2009, 11:40
Exterminatus firer: on % hits they are best.

100% accuracy beats evrything.

LD

Askari
03-01-2009, 12:15
Hive Tyrant
2x Twin-linked Devourers
Enhanced Senses

12 re-roll to hit and wound BS4 shots.
Throw enough mud and some of it's bound to stick :)

RexTalon
03-01-2009, 19:23
An Ork Lifta-Droppa. It hits 100% of the time. Same with any model armed with a flamer.

Lord Cook
03-01-2009, 19:32
Basilik Earth-Shaker Cannons are the best weapon in the game.

A strength 10, AP 1, Pinning, Pie Plate that can hit pretty much anywhere on the table without line of sight.... WTF!!

Well it's not S10, and it's certainly not Ap1 either.

Vindicare. The rules let them down a lot, but for faceless sniper assassins, the Vindicare rules.

40kdhs
03-01-2009, 19:35
If you can use ORBITAL STRIKE to target any target on the table without scattering double the distance, it is undoubtly the BEST because it CAN'T BE SHOT DOWN.

Moriarty
03-01-2009, 22:15
Easy one, this. Any figure with a flamer. Hits _all_ the time.

Damn. Should read all the replies before posting.

death__lord
03-01-2009, 23:37
Exterminatus firer: on % hits they are best.

100% accuracy beats evrything.

LD

I can only imagine what would happen if they did miss.

Now best shot. I'll say vindicare.

Usopreme
04-01-2009, 01:47
I'm baffled how people can be saying that telion or a vindicare are better shots than maugan. He has a better Bs, a more reliable weapon and won't be folded in half by anyone else shooting at him. Maugan is, was, and always will be the greatest shot in the universe.

the neckbone
04-01-2009, 04:21
chaos marine with a blast master
hmmmm sounds killy

starlight
04-01-2009, 04:38
Background:

1) Maugan-Ra
2) Vindicare / Eldar Pathfinder (tie)
4) Telion

AngryAngel
04-01-2009, 04:39
Sgt Telion, He does his long range shooting with a bolter. Could most likely do as good with a standard bolter and with all the time Maugan Ra has had. I'm sure he would beat the hell out of that pansy Xeno.

Orkeosaurus
04-01-2009, 06:19
Background:

1) Maugan-Ra
2) Vindicare / Eldar Pathfinder (tie)
4) Telion
How do you figure Pathfinders being equal to Vindicare Assassins?
And better than Telion?
I'd say they're the best conventional sniper, but not better than Temple Assassins or Special Character snipers.

starlight
04-01-2009, 06:46
Eldar who dedicate their considerable lifespans to the Ranger arts are going to be rather good shots... ;) Remember, this isn't just a job for these guys, but a way of living...


Telion is just a recent bone thrown from GW...I don't see any reason he would be on the same level as people who dedicate their lives to shooting. Yes he's good, but he's just a Marine who happens to be a good shot (maybe the top level for Marines) and instructor. He's not someone who has dedicated his life to the shot...

Koryphaus
04-01-2009, 07:16
Mr Norris - anybody who can shoot down a plane by pointing at it and yelling "Bang!" gets my vote..

ctsteel
04-01-2009, 08:40
since the question is more about the model and rules (5th ed).....
Vindicare on the tabletop can pick any model he can see (even in combat!) and shoot/kill that model. this = win.

Moriarty
04-01-2009, 10:16
Mr Norris - anybody who can shoot down a plane by pointing at it and yelling "Bang!" gets my vote..

Well, that settles it, then :-)

AngryAngel
04-01-2009, 10:33
Just because Marines have less of a lifespan dedicated to the shot, doesn't mean they don't live for their jobs. Telion is at least as dedicated as a ranger. He just needs work that much harder, and has perhaps a great amount of natural talent. Which makes his level of relative skill that much more imprevious as its being done without countless centuries spent on it.

Thud
04-01-2009, 10:45
Whoever playing against me, they never miss.

avatar of kaine
04-01-2009, 12:49
Maugan Ra.
I agree although possably tied with fuegan.

1: if were talking fluff wise, yes.

2:if were talking game wise yes

LemanRuss
04-01-2009, 13:17
Emperor class battle titan.
end of thread!

Grazzy
04-01-2009, 13:35
Most skillful shooter would have to be the vindicare because while he does not have the highest BS he is still the only one able to pick out individual models (even when they are in combat!).

Orkeosaurus
04-01-2009, 23:30
Eldar who dedicate their considerable lifespans to the Ranger arts are going to be rather good shots... ;) Remember, this isn't just a job for these guys, but a way of living...


Telion is just a recent bone thrown from GW...I don't see any reason he would be on the same level as people who dedicate their lives to shooting. Yes he's good, but he's just a Marine who happens to be a good shot (maybe the top level for Marines) and instructor. He's not someone who has dedicated his life to the shot...
Surely pathfinders do things besides learn how to snipe well?

Don't they have all kinds of other tasks to do as well? Scout, learn terrain, inform craftworlds of things, and take care of a host of others assorted missions they might be called to do.

They don't spend all day shooting things with their long rifles or something.

We don't know too much about Telion, but we know that GW put his BS skill higher than that of a pathfinder, and we know that he can single out models while a pathfinder cannot, so he's probably the better shot.

I'd say the sniper tree goes something like (in terms of skill):
Vindicare
Telion
Eldar Pathfinder
Catachan
Ranger
Kroot Hunter
Scout
Cadian/Ratling Sniper
Snipa Riffle Loota

(Catachan snipers depend on how much like Rambo you think they really are.)

I didn't count Ra as a sniper, but he's probably tops for aim.

starlight
05-01-2009, 01:48
A third of Pathfinder shots ignore Armour Saves (AP1), and the only reason Vindicares were given the ability to select targets in the FAQ was that they were so overcosted they had to get *something* to make them worthwhile.

juggalo4life84
05-01-2009, 02:03
larkin from the gaunts ghosts special characters was prety mean when that was a playable ruleset. he could move and fire with his sniper rifle, pick out his target and had something along the lines of rending with his rifle (somewhat like the eldar pathfinders).

Orkeosaurus
05-01-2009, 02:04
A third of Pathfinder shots ignore Armour Saves (AP1), and the only reason Vindicares were given the ability to select targets in the FAQ was that they were so overcosted they had to get *something* to make them worthwhile.
All sniper rifles are rending though.
Pathfinders just rend better. And you don't even know how well the Vindi rends, because his rifle's AP2.

Besides, the AP1 shots are something better too right?
They're both abilities granted to units that are great snipers.

A single Vindicare is just better than a single Pathfinder. Why else do you think a Vindicare assassin costs four times as much (even if he should only cost around three times)? Why else do think that Vindicares are deployed as individual models, and Pathfinders in small squads?

starlight
05-01-2009, 02:14
Background and poor rules/points balance. :p The Vindicare is fairly overcosted, especially when you have to take an Inquisitor to get him.

Orkeosaurus
05-01-2009, 02:33
Fairly overcosted, too true, but it doesn't change the fact that he was designed to be a significant threat as a single model; so much of a threat the limit on 0-1 temple assassins and the requiring of an Inquisitor were also considered necessary.

On the other hand, you need at least 5 Pathfinders to form a unit, and they're even considered troops.

There's no way that 5 Pathfinders are supposed to have the effect, gamewise or fluffwise, that 5 Vindicare assassins would have on the game.

I would, however, put the Pathfinders down as the best conventional sniper unit.

Shangrila
05-01-2009, 02:37
Telion count?if not a tau Commander with targeting array and markerlight drone.(BS 7)

Mors
05-01-2009, 02:39
Going by BS and weapon/skills then I go with Maugan Ra but if looking at just shooting carnage then a Dark Reaper Exarch with tempest launcher and crack shot. MEQ's and GEQ's need to fear the "Reaper".

RexTalon
05-01-2009, 02:41
if not a tau Commander with targeting array and markerlight drone.(BS 7)

That's like saying Batman is the best superhero.

Shangrila
05-01-2009, 02:58
That's like saying Batman is the best superhero.



But he is.... Seriously. He beat the crap out of superman who can beat the crap out of everyone else. Batman>all.

But on topic i have to say Rangers arent as good as scout snipers since in the DOW2 video he clearly botches the shot resulting in Heavy bolter to the face.

antrm
05-01-2009, 03:14
for its sheer volume of wounds it must be the 2x twin dev tyrant....for me it dosent get under 8 wounds a turn

doubt any single shooter can take it on in a 1v1

tankadams
05-01-2009, 03:15
Telion count?if not a tau Commander with targeting array and markerlight drone.(BS 7)

targeting arrays and markerlights can only be used up to BS5. They'll just have to make do with hitting on 2's.

Shangrila
05-01-2009, 03:25
targeting arrays and markerlights can only be used up to BS5. They'll just have to make do with hitting on 2's.


Hmm indeed you are correct sir. touche.

FashaTheDog
05-01-2009, 03:30
If you add Apocalypse, I say the Banelord because there's a 1 in 6 chance he gets to shoot twice a turn, once under your control, again under a random player's. Even if your foe gets to shoot, you win as that's more kills and it matters not from where the blood flows. I also vote for anyone with BS 5 and the Daemon Shell strategic assest - No matter what someone takes a Destroyer hit!

If not so big, I like a Ravager with three Disintegrators and a Night Shield. Nothing says I love you at range like moving 6" and firing three S7 AP2 blasts up to 36" or moving and 12" firing a S7 AP 2 blast and six S4 AP3 shots. Add to it all return fire loses 6" from their range so you can limit return fire. Vect is even better, albeit with no Night Shield but AV14 instead.

EDIT: A Ravager can get up to nine BS4 S4 AP3 shots at 24" and still move 12", so the Tyrant has some competition there.

The Vindicare is probably the best for my Guard as I have too often seen a lone Guardsman pass his -9 Ld test and hold that uber assualt squad of doom (never seen it but a maxed Bloodcrusher squad with joined Hearlds would fit the bill here). To remedy this I have converted a Commissariat Vindicare based off of Hero. His job is to shoot my own men out of assaults so the rest of the army can shoot uber assault squads of doom out of the game.

While not the best shooting unit, a Haemonculus with a stinger has a soft spot in my heart. If I kill a model with my shooting attack, he explodes, probably killing those nearby.

starlight
05-01-2009, 03:51
Fairly overcosted, too true, but it doesn't change the fact that he was designed to be a significant threat as a single model; so much of a threat the limit on 0-1 temple assassins and the requiring of an Inquisitor were also considered necessary.

Except that the limitations are on *Assassins*, not because the *Vindicare* is so uber. He's arguably the worst value for the points, which is why he got the shooting upgrades. The limitations were already in place and were far more to limit the raw power of the other Assassins...

Orkeosaurus
05-01-2009, 03:59
It's not a matter of being a good value, it's a matter of being powerful.

Flashgits are individually better than shoota boys, even though they're a much worse value.

One Vindicare assassin is far better than one Pathfinder.

And a Vindicare assassin is supposed to be in line with the other 3, that's why he's a Temple Assassin and not a Deathcult Assassin. Being the worst deal of the four isn't really important. He's still in the same range.

(Also, I've seen the Vindicare do more than a Culexus, unless the player knows before hand they'll be enough psykers to get a good use out of him.)

starlight
05-01-2009, 04:02
Let's just accept that it comes down to whoever's writing that particular piece of fiction, because that's what it really is...

FashaTheDog
05-01-2009, 04:11
As a note to you last comment Orkeosarus, I find the best way make your Culexus work is to bring your own psykers to up his shooting. Guard get those sanctioned psykers and there the Ld 7 drop is not too bad while Marines only have one Librarian to add to the mandatory psyker Inquisitor Lord. There you attach the Librarian to the Inquisitor's retinue and auto pass your way through all LD tests while adding two more shots. The old Marine codex was better at this as you took a Librrian with Command squad and attached as a single FOC choice, a chaplin and second Librarian so you had a fear less, two psyker assault squad of doom to protect your S5 AP1 battery and Inquisitor Lord. Nids often hated as all those that but any list with expensive units of 2+ saves generally did not like it too much either. In Guard lists, a trio of Command plasma batteries and two other squads all with attached sanctioned psykers can give you a 7 shot Culexus, more if you can find enemy psykers (only when the bugs get close generally speaking). Oh and you're likely already at Ld 7 anyway so no loss there.

EDIT: I have to second starlight there with that Eddie Murphy one Eddie Murphy quote I toss out often enough.

Orkeosaurus
05-01-2009, 04:38
@starlight: Well, of course it's fiction, but there's not much of a point of discussing things just to say that. ;)

@Fasha: Hmm, that's not a bad way to use one, if you don't mind putting the preparation into it.

starlight
05-01-2009, 04:54
My point wasn't that it is fiction, but that the role of the sniper in the book (protagonist/antagonist) will determine their relative capabilities in the 40K world. Sadly GW is reluctant to establish hard *canon*, so we are left with supposition and vagueness to discuss these points (and stats, capabilities, and point values that change over time).

Orkeosaurus
05-01-2009, 05:00
My point wasn't that it is fiction, but that the role of the sniper in the book (protagonist/antagonist) will determine their relative capabilities in the 40K world. Sadly GW is reluctant to establish hard *canon*, so we are left with supposition and vagueness to discuss these points (and stats, capabilities, and point values that change over time).Ah, well that's certainly true then.

Much like whoever is in the codex is going to beat everyone. :D

starlight
05-01-2009, 05:08
Pretty much. :)

In the Marine Codex, Telion is the best.
In the Ordos books, the Vindicare rules.
In the Eldar Codex, Maugan Ra and the Pathfinders are the front runners.

In an unbiased :p work, it would likely come down to the story, possibly with an unresolved ending (because GW loves murky backgrounds:p).

If *I* was writing the story for *me*, then I know how it would work, but that's as far as I can go with it...

Orkeosaurus
05-01-2009, 05:25
Well, I'd still say the Vindicare is better overall.
After all, an ork boy isn't better than a grey knight in either codex; if orks are beating grey knights, even in the ork codex, they probably have some significant numbers or some other advantage on their side.

Being fielded in squads of 5 verses being fielded individually is indicative of the Vindicare being more dangerous.

The protagonist in a book is a little different, as that's following a usually exceptional individual around.

Thud
05-01-2009, 07:24
In an unbiased :p work, it would likely come down to the story, possibly with an unresolved ending (because GW loves murky backgrounds:p).

In an unbiased work whichever of them is the space marine will win. Are you new to 40k? :p

Grazzy
05-01-2009, 09:46
Actually, larkin was pretty disgusting. He may challenge the vindicare imo.

What was all that discussion earlier about points!? We're here to find the most talented shooter, not whether they are cost effective!

Redrivertears
05-01-2009, 09:54
Don't forget the Lord of Change!

Can fire three different "weapons" at once, one of which is an STR 8 AP 1 bolt, one are actually three STR 5 AP 3 bolts, and one is a Flamer template that ignores all armour saves (or another bolt that turns you into chaos spawn).

He fires them all at BS 5.

Oh yeah, and on top of that, he can fire them at three different targets too!

:)

-Redrivertears-

Shadowphrakt
05-01-2009, 10:11
won't be folded in half by anyone else shooting at him. Maugan is, was, and always will be the greatest shot in the universe.

While that may be true, you have to remember that Maugan Ra doesn't have an invulnerable save...only eternal warrior. The Vindicare has 1 less wound but a 4+ invulnerable I think.

gonzosbignose
05-01-2009, 12:52
WTF has invulnerable saves got to do with best shot?

GodlessM
05-01-2009, 12:57
But he is.... Seriously. He beat the crap out of superman who can beat the crap out of everyone else. Batman>all.



Please, Ironman would have Batman for dinner and still have room for seconds.

Orkeosaurus
05-01-2009, 17:14
I think Sly Marbo actually has to be the greatest shot.

He may only be BS4, but he's Rambo, so there's no real way that he can lose.

Laser guided fanatic
05-01-2009, 17:21
I'm pretty sure SM would get the 'Rambo' guy if there ever is one. Tellion maybe but he has grey hair and a beard, most uncool. Sly Marbo has a bandanna and would adress Tellion as Grampa and then be shot for heresy.

Orkeosaurus
05-01-2009, 17:52
Sly Marbo just needs a bow.

He'll shoot arrows that blow the marine into pieces.

(He doesn't even need to put explosives on the bow. He's that good!)

Laser guided fanatic
05-01-2009, 17:53
That's Sly Rambo.

Sly Marbo is a wannabe and will be eaten by nids when he daydreams about being Sly Rambo.

Orkeosaurus
05-01-2009, 18:13
Have you ever seen Marbo and Rambo in the same place.

They're the same person!

Laser guided fanatic
05-01-2009, 18:18
Sly Rambo probably has a bodyguard of 100 Arnie Terminators and a harlem of sexy women.

Sly Marbo is a faliure and resorts to idolosing Sly Marbo he even has a pin up of him in his locker.

So no they have never been in the same place that's like asking if i've ever had dinner with the G8 leaders.