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take19
03-01-2009, 18:19
I was just looking at my WoC Army book and was wondering what everyone thinks the best Chaos Lord configuration is?

Lord Khabal
03-01-2009, 18:27
depends on what he is riding. If hes riding a dragon, then MOT, COKhorne, Morrslieb, SOMight, Deaths head, Shield, DSplendour

5+Wsv / 3+Wsv VS non magical / 3+ASv / S6. Dhead is great for causing panic on knights - combo with dragon breath and DSplendour.

A bit pricey though - 700+ pts...

bork da basher
03-01-2009, 20:01
the only reason to take a chaos lord is to have him riding a dragon, im using mine as follows.

MoT, talisman of protection, axe of khorne, crimson armour of dargon, diabolic splendour, shield.

2+ AS, 4+ ward save, immune to killing blow and cant take multiple wounds, 5 S6 killing blow attacks and -1 to terror/breaktests with splendour aswell as the killing power behind the dragon. little can stand upto him in combat and he's pretty hard to bring down.



even

take19
03-01-2009, 22:41
So is there any point atall in taking him without the dragon?

GodlessM
03-01-2009, 23:00
The best way to take a Chaos Lord is not to take him, two Exalted's are much better.

Havock
03-01-2009, 23:34
But it can be fun to take him along from time to time.

W0lf
03-01-2009, 23:45
The best config for a chaos lord is nothing, as that emans you dont have one.

2 exalteds are far better and even they arnt great.

take19
04-01-2009, 00:07
Whats better than the two exalteds then?

VVar
04-01-2009, 01:32
Two lvl 2's. And a sorc lord

Defender of Ulthuan
04-01-2009, 01:42
^So true.

However, if you do want to take a Fighty-Lord, stick him on a dragon with
Ench.Shield+M.o'T.+A.o.Prot.+C.o.E.C.+SoM. Expensive, but hella-funny.

changer of fate
04-01-2009, 04:19
well, i wouldn't think about taking a lord unless with a dragon.......which means only in a 2500pts+ games at least. sorcerer lord is way better......:p

but if for some reason i do take one without a dragon, i would sit him on a juggernaut, MoK, chaos daemonsword, collar of Khorne, shield.
that means he have a 0+ AS, MR 2, maxium of 10 str 8 attacks........lol:evilgrin:

Djekar
04-01-2009, 06:05
For a long time I tried to justify running the Chaos Lord, because I'm used to playing O&G and we need that 9 LD. But especially since I run either mono-Slaanesh or at worst a Tzeentch/Slaanesh mix, I find that the extra LD is not really worth it, and I have fallen into the "either 2x Exalted or a Sorc Lord" category. I really want a reason to run him (and for that matter, the Daemon Prince too)!

As for the Lord on the Dragon, from what I understand, the Sorcerer Lord is better in that respect as well, but I've never tried either (I *hate* the Chaos Dragon models and don't want to mod my own) so that is just hearsay.

~Road

bork da basher
04-01-2009, 06:28
IMO sorcerer lords are the ONLY lord choice worth taking in the book. they are good enough in combat to make them a solid choice all round and with a little tinkering in the magic item department can be made almost as good in combat as a lord anyway, just with the added bonus of being a lvl3/4 spellcaster.

for the sake of fluff id like to be able to use a lord or especially a demon prince but i dont want to be shooting myself in the foot as i know the other choices are far better.

Jericho
04-01-2009, 09:53
Once agian, I'm biased by taking a Tzeentch/Slaanesh list, but Sorc Lords are a lot more versatile. With a simple SOM and Chaos Steed they are 2+ save guys with 3 S5 attacks, plus a S4 attack from the horsie. Not bad really. Plus all the magic and other items.

I really don't think Chaos Lords are worth it, unless you're playing against something like Blood Knights where you need to be able to deal them an incredibly strong KO-punch so you can't resurrect them all. If Ld is a concern, then mark Marauders w/ Slaanesh and take a BSB. You're immune to the vast majority of psychology on your low Ld units, and your combat monsters have a re-roll if they ever get beat.

Mullitron
04-01-2009, 12:19
I like lord with Mok,juggernaut, Chaos rune shield and chaos rune sword. Very hard to kill and has lots of killy power.

take19
04-01-2009, 12:22
I like lord with Mok,juggernaut, Chaos rune shield and chaos rune sword. Very hard to kill and has lots of killy power.

It's a bit cheaper than the dragon to;)

bork da basher
04-01-2009, 17:11
but still proberly 400pts+ and can be led around the table by fodder units that cost a 10th of his points. or forced into combats where he's at a disadvantage. fair enough he's a monster and not easily braught down but its much better to have a exalted on jugger, your saving about 150pts ish and he's almost as killy.

Goruax
04-01-2009, 19:30
Lord;
- Mark of Tzeentch
- Manticore
- Axe of Khorne
- Collar of Khorne
- Favour of the Gods
- Enchanted Shield
500 points exactly (and hopefully right since I don't have my book to hand)
Dolls out 5S6 Killing Blows and 4S5 Killing Blows, both are Toughness 5 to boot, with the rider getting a 2+/5++ and MR2.
Plus, there's the off chance (1/13) of getting Frenzied, upping that to 6S6 KB and 5S5 KB.
Get lucky with a Warshrine and you're getting 13 KB attacks, all at I5+

From 1 US5 model.
Correction - 1 US5 model, that can fly.

Large chunk of points, but cheaper than a Dragon and pretty much as killy, if not more so because of the KB, which ignores any armour they might have, making him perfect to bitchslap knights around (more so than he does normally.)

W0lf
05-01-2009, 00:37
If you want a fighty lord try this;

Sorc lord
Mo.., Steed, E. Shield, Daemonsword. Wod of pain or third eye.

Trust me its my tried and proven best character.

He averages 6 S6 (same as chaos lord with runesword btw) with a potential of 9 S7 attacks. So much more versatile then a chaos lord aswell.

Oh and if you dare suggest 'he'll kill himself' then id throw this at you;

average of 6 S6.
Thats 1 hit on wizard
2 to wound
3+ armour save, possible 6 up ward.

so on averages thats 9 rounds of combat to kill himeslf, assuming you always wound and dont have MoT.

Dark_Mage99
05-01-2009, 00:48
It's not just about killing yourself though; even if you wound yourself just once it makes him a lot easier to kill for opponents, and almost a given to throw away half points.

I'd be more tempted to put the Runesword on the mage.

Shaunzy
05-01-2009, 14:29
Of course the 2x heroes outweigh the Lord.
But being the stubborn mule that I am, I've weaved the lordie into my ranks ever so often.

Here's how I tooled him:

Mark of Tzeentch
Chaos Runesword
Armour of Morrslieb
Favour of the Gods
Daemonic Mount

He comes out to 310 pts, but with all that movement, he's quite a force on the field. And with a 4+/3+ save, usually nothing much touches him if I screen em well.

He comes out with 6x S6 attacks, excluding the mount (that causes fear, by the way). Haven't met much that could withstand this in a 2k++ game.

Death Korp
05-01-2009, 15:11
I always like to take a Chaos lord, because of the 'cool factor' he has, and its quite fluffy to have one. Although I would take a sorcerer lord for any competative games.

I've found that this guy annoys standard elf infantry and calvary:

Chaos Lord: MoN, Halberd, Chaos Runeshield, Word of Agony, Daemonic Mount.

Comes to about 380pts of Elf killing madness. He has always earned his points back every gmae (managed to kill an Assasin with WoA :D )

DK

Valtiel
05-01-2009, 17:14
I always like to take a Chaos lord, because of the 'cool factor' he has, and its quite fluffy to have one. Although I would take a sorcerer lord for any competative games.

I've found that this guy annoys standard elf infantry and calvary:

Chaos Lord: MoN, Halberd, Chaos Runeshield, Word of Agony, Daemonic Mount.

Comes to about 380pts of Elf killing madness. He has always earned his points back every gmae (managed to kill an Assasin with WoA :D )

DK

You do realize that if you equip him like this, if he uses the halberd he won't gain the benefits from the Chaos Runeshield, right?

If I want to take a Lord, just give him a mundane weapon (most of the magic weapons are either too expensive or just bad) and just load up on protection... that the new book has less of today sadly. Unless you mark your characters with MoT.

EvC
05-01-2009, 17:58
If you want a fighty lord try this;

Sorc lord
Mo.., Steed, E. Shield, Daemonsword. Wod of pain or third eye.

Trust me its my tried and proven best character.

He averages 6 S6 (same as chaos lord with runesword btw) with a potential of 9 S7 attacks. So much more versatile then a chaos lord aswell.

Oh and if you dare suggest 'he'll kill himself' then id throw this at you;

average of 6 S6.
Thats 1 hit on wizard
2 to wound
3+ armour save, possible 6 up ward.

so on averages thats 9 rounds of combat to kill himeslf, assuming you always wound and dont have MoT.

Except that GW have gone back on what they say and have decided Sorcerers can't have magic shields. So you'll have to make do with a 2+ save on your Sorcerer Lord, and a far greater chance of killing himself.

Eta
05-01-2009, 19:35
Except that GW have gone back on what they say and have decided Sorcerers can't have magic shields. So you'll have to make do with a 2+ save on your Sorcerer Lord, and a far greater chance of killing himself.

Source?

Thanks
Eta

EvC
05-01-2009, 20:09
GW website, read articles on Chaos. I can't give you a direct link as going there crashes my PC as the GW website is a pile of poop.

waiyuren
05-01-2009, 23:09
So i guess im alone in thinking Characters are support units?

I tried out Slaanesh and Tzeentch Daemon princes, but found them too killable. (And way too expensive as casters...) So currently my general is a Slaanesh lord on Boobsnake with Glaive and Runeshield. He hunts monsters and artillery... Thats all.

Havock
06-01-2009, 12:47
He means this:

My favourite option is the Warrior Familiar - who inflicts an automatic S5 hit on a single enemy model before blows are struck. Perfect for getting the edge over a powerful opponent, especially if you're likely to end up in a challenge against him. In terms of defence, consider decking your Chaos Sorcerer out with a suit of Magic Armour, such as the Bronze Armour of Zhrakk (oh, and despite the scurrilous advice I've given in the past, you can't equip your Sorcerers with magic shields... and apparently no amount of wishing, arguing or whining on my part will make it true).

And unless it's errata'ed, we still can. The rulebook itself says so "chaos sorcerers blabla are different because they can use magic armour and shield like normal".

EvC
06-01-2009, 14:07
The rulebook says vaguely that they can use magic shields like other champions of chaos, which is why I would assume it is allowed. But I'm not so stubborn that when someone who wrote an article alongside the book's author says it can't be done, that I'll say he's wrong. You may disagree, of course.

Jericho
07-01-2009, 07:06
There have been times when the authors have changed their mind and made FAQ/errata entries that are very directly against the original RAW.

Currently the Sorcs have a very specific rule which allows them to take shields (wtf could possibly make it vague when it clearly says they use chaos armor and may take magic shields?). If an errata/FAQ comes out that directly contradicts this, then fine. I'll be using enchanted shield until then.

If you want other evidence of articles/batreps being way off base, then recall the debacle with Hydras. For some reason the WD said it has S7 breath attacks, which is completely false.

changer of fate
07-01-2009, 08:32
This might not be relevent to the topic, but i cant find the rule that says wizards cant take magic weapon or armor in the rule book.

Neckutter
07-01-2009, 09:26
my current lord, who i like the best:

sorc lord
tzeentch
lvl 4
armor of morrsleib
staff of ravening
spell familiar
bloodcurdling roar
disc of tzeentch

425ish points of killykill.

my chaos lord build who cant fight his way outta a plastic bag:
chaos lord
nurgle
helm of regen
helm of strike first, stupidity
great weapon

i stopped taking him because he had trouble killing other lords, or sometimes he wouldnt even make it into combat. and being 300+ points, that is unacceptable.

EvC
07-01-2009, 12:24
There have been times when the authors have changed their mind and made FAQ/errata entries that are very directly against the original RAW.

Currently the Sorcs have a very specific rule which allows them to take shields (wtf could possibly make it vague when it clearly says they use chaos armor and may take magic shields?). If an errata/FAQ comes out that directly contradicts this, then fine. I'll be using enchanted shield until then.

If you want other evidence of articles/batreps being way off base, then recall the debacle with Hydras. For some reason the WD said it has S7 breath attacks, which is completely false.

Of course I know that authors have been wrong. It originally said in the very article I referred to that an Enchanted Shield was a great way to give your Sorcerers some added protection. The fact that they then went back and edited the article to correct that and tell us that you can't give magic shields to sorcerers should indicate how they are eventually going to FAQ the question. Feel free to ignore it in the meantime, but you're going to be disappointed.

As for how clear it was, go do a search for enchanted shield and chaos in the rules forum. You'll find more than one thread discussing the topic, going on for scores of posts. It's not as clear as you would suggest! (You'll also find me there arguing that you can give magic shields to Sorcerers, but then I'm not your usual internet warrior arguing to the death and refusing to ever change my mind)

W0lf
07-01-2009, 14:14
Untill an FAQ ill use a shield.

The rulebook clearly says i can and i will do so, its not like WoC are particulary great anyway.

EvC
07-01-2009, 14:23
Lol, second time today people using the word "clear" for a rules dispute that is anything but :D

W0lf
07-01-2009, 14:39
There is a passage saying chaos wizards can take magic shields and as they have mundane armour that dosnt even conflict with the main rules.

Hell without the rule they can take the enchanted shield.

EvC
07-01-2009, 14:46
Wrong again, you can only take magic shields if you have an option for a mundane shield. Go search in rules forum if you want to see the entire silly debate- and note that I would agree with you that Sorcerers could have magic shields without the note on the website.

take19
07-01-2009, 15:05
my current lord, who i like the best:

sorc lord
tzeentch
lvl 4
armor of morrsleib
staff of ravening
spell familiar
bloodcurdling roar
disc of tzeentch

425ish points of killykill.

my chaos lord build who cant fight his way outta a plastic bag:
chaos lord
nurgle
helm of regen
helm of strike first, stupidity
great weapon

i stopped taking him because he had trouble killing other lords, or sometimes he wouldnt even make it into combat. and being 300+ points, that is unacceptable.

So this proves a dragon isnt standard then?

OldMaster
07-01-2009, 16:16
He isn't.
But a Lord on foot is a waste of your points I think. If you want to get your powerhouse into the phase he's best at, you'll need a mount.

Put him on a Dragon for hunting alone or put him on a Jugger and place him in a unit of Knights...many options really.

W0lf
07-01-2009, 17:12
I dont like 300+ pts characters in knight units thou.

On foot he brings his LD to more units and has CR behind him (which is nice).

Only lord ive thought of running is;

Lord
MoT, Talisman of protection, Helm of many eyes, GW, Crown of conquest

hes far to expensive for what he does but he dosnt need a magic weapon (our selection isnt that great). If i were to mount him then why take him at all imo? Hell 6 Knights with stand/mus (never take champs) and a mark (assume 30 pts) is 300pts. They arnt a liability like a lord can be.

take19
07-01-2009, 19:08
hes far to expensive for what he does but he dosnt need a magic weapon (our selection isnt that great). If i were to mount him then why take him at all imo? Hell 6 Knights with stand/mus (never take champs) and a mark (assume 30 pts) is 300pts. They arnt a liability like a lord can be.

That's a good point.

Khorneflakes
08-01-2009, 03:09
my chaos lords first outing was with:

chaos armour
shield
*rune sword
*favour of the gods
*necrotic phylactery
mark of slaanesh

and he was on foot in a 25 strong marauder unit. by the end of the game, vs lizardmen he had mr3, +1 xtra sv and killed around 20 saurus plus 3 rolls on the eye of the gods chart (1 OF WHICH WAS A 7!).

he rocked!

and he only costs 290 points and never lost a wound

Loki73
08-01-2009, 03:30
So i guess im alone in thinking Characters are support units

Nope I think some people here are in the "Its chaos so a Chaos lord should win games on his own" camp. :rolleyes:

Relax, make a build, play the game, see how it does.

Cambion Daystar
08-01-2009, 12:10
I would try to keep him cheap.
O wait, he is already expensive without extra equipment.
Heroes it is then...

FallenAfh
08-01-2009, 12:28
The Chaos Lord thats been doing me great has been this build.

Hellfire Sword
Enchanted Shield
Favour of the Gods
MoK
Jugger
Every now and then I give him Word of Agony too.

+ a bodyguard of of 14 hounds.

He's managed to take down a Nurgle Bunker and GG Bunker before.

Havock
08-01-2009, 12:58
For Chaos lords, I too am -despite thefact that it's quite overpriced- am looking to the runesword: 1 wound is all it takes and against monsters the thing is literal hell.
Even a dragon isn't safe.

Also looking at Glaive + Skinhidden plate. Take MoT and a talisman and you still have a 5+ ward. Not too bad.

EvC
08-01-2009, 14:50
I was going to try a similar setup to the one suggested by FallenAfh, but don't quite have it in me to spend so many points on a model that is S5 at the end of the day. I'm going to be trying my Jugger Lord out with Axe of Khorne in a couple of games today, and pray for 6s! With a big unit of Knights bheind him, they should kill anything with ease, but who knows...

Whitehorn
08-01-2009, 15:08
Manticore and Axe of Khorne!

etancross
08-01-2009, 15:24
Do you guys really think a lord isn't a good choice? Im getting ready to have my first few games with these guys soon and have been mulling over what to take as a config for my lord.

take19
08-01-2009, 15:32
I seems the idea is either two exalted or a sorcerer.

changer of fate
08-01-2009, 22:37
honestly, do what you want and what seems the funnest for you, the whole point of warhammer is to have fun, not just kick everyone's ass

Havock
09-01-2009, 02:59
What you speak of... this fun.... HERESY! I say.

Cartoon
09-01-2009, 04:27
I guess you could always give a sorcerer lord the aethersword or something similar to give him some punch in cc, he does have decent combat stats, especially for a caster.

Havock
09-01-2009, 04:46
That is... a great idea.

Let's see:
Tzeentch Sorc. Lord, level 4.
Aetherblade, then either Collar of Khorne + Enchanted shield + favour or phylactery or Armour of Morsslieb + Talisman of protection. Boosting his magic can be done by flying a discrider with skull of katam along.

W0lf
09-01-2009, 10:50
oh common ive been saying use warrior-sorc lord since before the book came out!

Sorc lord
Mo.., Steed, E. Shield, Daemonsword. Word of pain or third eye.

on average this guy hits as hard as a chaos lord, - the WS, and can hit harder.

Hes as good as a lord and is a lvl 4 caster. This is why chaos lords suck.

Ozorik
09-01-2009, 11:11
Hes as good as a lord and is a lvl 4 caster. This is why chaos lords suck.

No he isnt. His A and S are boosted by the sword but not to the exent that the lords will. Crucially though he is only T4 and WS 5.

W0lf
09-01-2009, 14:58
Not to the extent? what?

6 S6 is the same as lord with runesword. Unless you mean lord with sword whos more likely tokill himself and dosnt gain as much as the sorcerer imo.

WS 5 isnt such a big deal and T4? TBH chaos lords ether kill unit champs or get killed by better characters so T4 dosnt matter all that much. Plus S7 is quite common for characters of equal cost.