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Arbiter7
03-01-2009, 21:52
Hello folks! New to Empire, (yes if you read my previous dwarf post, please understand that empire won me over).


I'm just starting with Empire, and I have been toying for some time now with a themed list, a Loyalist army of Sylvania, using the purple and white colours, with red feathers, as seen in an old WD VC preview.

Here's the list, looking forward to getting some feedback!

Lord:
General of the Empire (227pts)
[Full Plate Armor; Shield; Sword of Power; Laurels of Victory; Barded Warhorse]

**************
Goes in a 9 man core knight unit with the MR(2) banner. Laurels and S6 should win the day even with a standard knights unit.
**************


Heroes:
Captain (139pts)
[ABSB; Sword of Might; Dawn Armour; Barded Warhorse]

**************
Inside a unit of 24 swordsmen. Adds the some punch and that much needed bsb.
**************

Warrior Priest (144pts)
[Great Weapon; Armour of Meteoric Iron; Icon of Magnus]

*************
Inside a unit of Greatswords, 20 strong, to give them hatred. Plus no auto break from fear, yay for Magnus!
*************

Battle Wizard (150pts)
[Lvl 2; Dispel Scroll (x2)]

*************
Scroll Caddy. 'Nuff said.
*************

Core:
24 Swordsmen (169pts)
[Full Command; Parent A]
Detachment A1: 10 Crossbowmen (80pts)
Detachment A2: 10 Halberdiers (50pts)

*************
Secondary troop block
*************

10 Free Company; Musician (54pts)

************
Cheap stuff to hinder and redirect charges, may go warmachine/skirmisher hunting if ignored
************

The General’s Bodyguard (287pts)
[9xKnightly Order; Full Command; Standard of Arcane Warding]

************
Hammer unit. Numbers so that it survives being shot at.
************

10 Huntsmen (100pts)

**********
March Blockers. 'Nuff said.
**********

Special:
20 Greatswords (230pts) + (80pts)
[Full Command Parent B]
10 Crossbowmen [Detatchment BI]

**********
Main infantry unit. Hatred ftw.
***********

2 groups of 5 Pistoliers (114pts)+(114pts)
[Musician; including Outrider with Rep. Pistol]

**********
Harass. Harass. Harass.
**********

Great Cannon (100pts)

**********
For those big nasties.
**********

Rare:
Hellblaster Volley Gun (110pts)

************
Ka-Boom
************

10 Flagellants (100pts)

*************
Cheap protection for one flank
*************

Total: 2248pts | Models: 135 | 4 power die | 4 dispel die

RossS
04-01-2009, 03:51
Hello folks! New to Empire, (yes if you read my previous dwarf post, please understand that empire won me over).


I'm just starting with Empire, and I have been toying for some time now with a themed list, a Loyalist army of Sylvania, using the purple and white colours, with red feathers, as seen in an old WD VC preview.

Here's the list, looking forward to getting some feedback!

Lord:
General of the Empire (227pts)
[Full Plate Armor; Shield; Sword of Power; Laurels of Victory; Barded Warhorse]

**************
Goes in a 9 man core knight unit with the MR(2) banner. Laurels and S6 should win the day even with a standard knights unit.
**************


Heroes:
Captain (139pts)
[ABSB; Sword of Might; Dawn Armour; Barded Warhorse]

**************
Inside a unit of 24 swordsmen. Adds the some punch and that much needed bsb.
**************

Warrior Priest (144pts)
[Great Weapon; Armour of Meteoric Iron; Icon of Magnus]

*************
Inside a unit of Greatswords, 20 strong, to give them hatred. Plus no auto break from fear, yay for Magnus!
*************

Battle Wizard (150pts)
[Lvl 2; Dispel Scroll (x2)]

*************
Scroll Caddy. 'Nuff said.
*************

Core:
24 Swordsmen (169pts)
[Full Command; Parent A]
Detachment A1: 10 Crossbowmen (80pts)
Detachment A2: 10 Halberdiers (50pts)

*************
Secondary troop block
*************

10 Free Company; Musician (54pts)

************
Cheap stuff to hinder and redirect charges, may go warmachine/skirmisher hunting if ignored
************

The Generalís Bodyguard (287pts)
[9xKnightly Order; Full Command; Standard of Arcane Warding]

************
Hammer unit. Numbers so that it survives being shot at.
************

10 Huntsmen (100pts)

**********
March Blockers. 'Nuff said.
**********

Special:
20 Greatswords (230pts) + (80pts)
[Full Command Parent B]
10 Crossbowmen [Detatchment BI]

**********
Main infantry unit. Hatred ftw.
***********

2 groups of 5 Pistoliers (114pts)+(114pts)
[Musician; including Outrider with Rep. Pistol]

**********
Harass. Harass. Harass.
**********

Great Cannon (100pts)

**********
For those big nasties.
**********

Rare:
Hellblaster Volley Gun (110pts)

************
Ka-Boom
************

10 Flagellants (100pts)

*************
Cheap protection for one flank
*************

Total: 2248pts | Models: 135 | 4 power die | 4 dispel die

I love the idea, but I don't think the list really represents the type of army one would encounter in Sylvania. Sylvania is easily the poorest of imperial provinces, so core units should probably be restricted to spears, bows, crossbows and free company. Likewise, I don't see Greatswords as being present. How a rare, and expensive to produce Helblaster would end up in Sylvania is also beyond me.

Plus, to be really Sylvanian, you need absolute throngs of flagellants.

Arbiter7
04-01-2009, 04:38
Hehe.

Well I don't expect to spend a lot of money on a themed list that isn't going to win one time.

However, I do have the fluff ready. In short:


"Return to Castle Drakenhof"


An seasoned Empire General discovers that his roots are from Sylvania and decides to try and find his family's home there. While searching, he is dogged by a Sylvanian Warrior Priest that wants to persuade him it is his duty to free the land again. He actually finds his great great grandfathers home, which is falling to pieces, and discovers a very old banner, bearing the image of a Lady holding a giant golden key. He also finds a magical sword, a family heirloom. He finds out that he is a living descendant of the Drakenhof family, the true an rightful rulers of Sylvania. He is finally persuaded by the priest.

They send out word to the rest of the Empire that the time is nigh for Sylvania to cast away the shackles of the Counts and become a free province under the rule of the Emperor.

Their call is ignored. No one replies with men. Everyone knows it would be a serious diplomatic error to recognize that Sylvania has but a puppet government and that it has indeed fallen in the hands of the Counts. The ones that are better informed, know that no single army cannot hope to purge the hordes of Sylvania. It would take several thousands of men, and there is a great chance that in the end, they would only bolster the Counts' arsenal. In bone. The only help comes from neighboring Nuln, who don't send men, but a Volley Gun (they've got plenty to spare).

The General and the Priest make great effort to inspire the people and get recruits. They manage to get a standing army who he personally trains. The women wove outfits in the traditional sylvanian manner, purple and white.

A number of civilians join the army, and they are nothing more than a mob led by witch hunters (mordheim warband and militia sprue should look VERY good.)

Of course, Sylvania has a fair share of crazies, which can also be put to good use when the time is right. (flagellants)

Indeed they are poor, so they have no handguns, but crossbows instead.

The Knights are lone Knights from the border princes who answered the call of the Sylvanians and decided to fight for their cause. They naturally formed a bodyguard for the general, and fight under his banner.

The Greatswords. I initially intended to have the priest lead a free company (witch hunters) regiment. But then the list has to be playable and free company just don't cut it. Greatswords and Priest are a great combo. The only thing left is to justify how they got their armor. I'll come up with something. Maybe there is some nobility left? Maybe they struck a Deal with the Dwarves in the mountains neighboring Sylvania, to rid them of the threat of castle Drakenhof, and got some armor?

Pistoliers aren't that hard to explain. After Sylvania became abandoned by the Empire, the wealthiest of people bought guns from Nuln in order to protect themselves, since the state would not do that.

The Cannon is an old cannon that can barely fire but should do.

The Huntsmen are Sylvanian hunters. People have to hunt there too.


And if my opponent is not persuaded by any of this, then its simply the Sylvanian army that faced Vlad in that last crucial battle and perished, marking the beggining of the end of sylvania.

Arbiter7
04-01-2009, 04:42
Fluff aside, any comments on the list would be nice.

Thanks!

Neckutter
04-01-2009, 04:48
it shouldnt be labeled loyalist sylvanians. because the sylvanians are extremely loyal.... to their vampire lords.

what is SHOULD be is an army of the sylvanians Pre-Vlad


EDIT: now for some army suggestions:

make your knightly orders inner circle knights. you should also set them 6 wide. forget about rank bonus, you need damaging hits. maybe drop MR2 for the war banner or steel standard. basically i feel that MR2= situational. you got 4 DD, and 2 dispel scrolls. you arent going to stop it ALL, but you will stop the nasty stuff. a fireball wont do much to knights. lets say averages 4 hits, 3 wounds, 2 saves average. if your gonna spend point on MR banner to save one knight from death... why not just buy another knight?

change the swordsman's unit of halbadiers into free company instead. they hit better than halbadiers. you can leave the crossbowmen i guess. i like handgunners instead, but w/e

drop the flagellents for another helblaster. some people might say its cheesy, but they will get over it. you would be surprised how easy a helblaster "protects a flank"

musician on free company? surely you jest.

the wizard should probably use fire, just for some offensive punch. or death for that matter.

EDIT#2 i just realized you were using a general of the empire, and not a templar grand master. read up on what he does and take him. he is rock solid.

Slayerthane
04-01-2009, 04:54
I was thinking about doing an Imperial army of sylvania as well based off of an article in an old WD describing Sylvania's armies before the Von Carstein revealed himself as a vampire. Fluff-wise you could do two types of armies, one army from before Von Carstein's presence in Sylvania or a current loyalist army.

A current loyalist army would probably be more a stirland army since all the sylvanian nobles are lesser stirland nobles now and it is a nominal part of Stirland. Since stirland and sylvania are both poor I would think this would mostly be spearmen, huntsmen, bowmen, maybe a cannon and a mortar, possibly pistoliers and a unit of Knights of Morr since they have a large presence in Sylvania. I think read somewhere that ogres are used as tax collectors so you could possibly include these as well and convert them up like that.

The other fluffy opition is to do a pre-Von Carstein list. However, this was from a time before blackpowder weapons so all those weapons would be out. However you could field greatswords (Drakenhof guard), Knights (either Drakenhof templars or Knights of Morr), and then spearmen, swordsmen, flagellants etc. These are just some thoughts I've come up with, but I think your list could work either way. I hope this helps.

Arbiter7
04-01-2009, 06:17
Hmm... Some helpful input there.


Let's see. How would this work:

Lord:

General of the Empire (227pts)
[Full Plate Armor; Shield; Sword of Power; Laurels of Victory; Barded Warhorse]

Heroes:

Captain (139pts)
[ABSB; Sword of Might; Dawn Armour; Barded Warhorse]

Warrior Priest (159pts)
[Great Weapon; Heavy Armor; Shield; Van Horstman's Speculum; Sigil of Sigmar; Barded Warhorse]

Battle Wizard (150pts)
[Lvl 2; Dispel Scroll (x2)]

Core:

24 Spearmen Full Command, Shields (164pts) (General in here)
Detachment I: 10 Xbows (80pts)
Detachment II: 10 Free Company (50pts)

23 Spearmen Full Command, Shields (158pts) (ABSB in here)
Detachment I: 10 Xbows (80pts)
Detachment II: 10 Free Company (50pts)

10 Huntsmen (100pts)

6 Knights of Morr; Full Command (178pts) (Priest in Here)

6 Knights of Morr; Preceptor; Musician (162pts)

Special:

1 Great Cannon (100pts)

1 Mortar (75pts)

5 Pistoliers (outrider rep. pistol; Musician) (114pts)

5 Pistoliers (outrider rep. pistol; Musician) (114pts)

Rare:

15 Flagellants (150pts)


Total: 2250pts | 4 PD/4DD

This looks much fluffier.

But will it make it? Any suggestions? Let me remind you that I'm STARTING an empire army and have no clue on this lists performance. It looks kinda weak though. Still, I'm mostly going to face ETC style armies (we like it that way at the gaming club).

RossS
04-01-2009, 08:57
Hmm... Some helpful input there.


Let's see. How would this work:

Lord:

General of the Empire (227pts)
[Full Plate Armor; Shield; Sword of Power; Laurels of Victory; Barded Warhorse]

Heroes:

Captain (139pts)
[ABSB; Sword of Might; Dawn Armour; Barded Warhorse]

Warrior Priest (159pts)
[Great Weapon; Heavy Armor; Shield; Van Horstman's Speculum; Sigil of Sigmar; Barded Warhorse]

Battle Wizard (150pts)
[Lvl 2; Dispel Scroll (x2)]

Core:

24 Spearmen Full Command, Shields (164pts) (General in here)
Detachment I: 10 Xbows (80pts)
Detachment II: 10 Free Company (50pts)

23 Spearmen Full Command, Shields (158pts) (ABSB in here)
Detachment I: 10 Xbows (80pts)
Detachment II: 10 Free Company (50pts)

10 Huntsmen (100pts)

6 Knights of Morr; Full Command (178pts) (Priest in Here)

6 Knights of Morr; Preceptor; Musician (162pts)

Special:

1 Great Cannon (100pts)

1 Mortar (75pts)

5 Pistoliers (outrider rep. pistol; Musician) (114pts)

5 Pistoliers (outrider rep. pistol; Musician) (114pts)

Rare:

15 Flagellants (150pts)


Total: 2250pts | 4 PD/4DD

This looks much fluffier.

But will it make it? Any suggestions? Let me remind you that I'm STARTING an empire army and have no clue on this lists performance. It looks kinda weak though. Still, I'm mostly going to face ETC style armies (we like it that way at the gaming club).


This is definately fluffier and I actually think that it is an improvement over the previous list, in particular I like the enlarged unit of fleggers.

The Knights are an excellent choice, and will be good at delivering flank charges while your units of spearmen pin down the enemy. I must admit, though, huntsmen are absolute rubbish. If you want really ace skirmishers you could take a unit of DOW duelists with pistols. I include such a unit in my empire army and have modeled them as a band of roving strigany. Sylvania is filled with bandits etc...so a unit of highwaymen would not be out of place.

I'm not sure you need two units of pistoliers. Maybe we could drop one unit and use the points to beef up the spears and upgrade some Knights to Inner Circle.

Slayerthane
04-01-2009, 15:59
Also, I believe you can have one unit of flaggellants as a core choice if you have a warrior priest as a character. I think the addition of a cannon and a mortar are important additions although I think pre-Vlad empire still did not have access to either of these if you are still interested in doing a fluffy army. You could however take two DoW cannons as rares and have them manned by dwarfs since there are a number of dwarf holds in the vicinity of Sylvania. The two doW cannons would cost about the same as the cannon and mortar. Flaggies should be a good choice since they can anchor a flank for you and there are no shortage of homeless peasants driven to madness by the poverty and hardship in Sylvania. I like the second list. It looks alot like I would field. I was also thinking having a unit of greatswords in there too, so that you have a stubborn unit and an unbreakable unit to anchor your battle line but it's your choice. For the duellists if you wanted to go that route and didn't want to convert them, you could always buy some privateer press Kayazy assasins since they have an Eastern European look to them.

Arbiter7
04-01-2009, 17:05
I think I'll just drop the huntsmen to 5 and use some leftover bretonnian archers. Use the points for more spearmen.

P.S. The second list is for a current sylvanian force!

Makarion
05-01-2009, 03:59
Huntsmen have a minimum unit size of 10. Although I love them, I have replaced them since the 7th edition army book with a detachment of archers. In 6th, they at least had longbows...

On another front, I would not take a 2nd level on your wizard. With 4 PD and 1 prayer, you're not likely to ever cast anything, after all. Consider ditching the wizard altogether in favour of another warrior priest and reinstating MR gear (banner of Arcane Warding and Shroud of Magnus).

I would replace one of the pistolier units with an upgrade of the knights to Inner Circle, but that is a personal choice and rather depending on your local gaming environment. With mostly T3 in your opposition, the regular knights might do just fine.

Consider the super fluffy halflings from DoW - they are actually acceptable archers for their point cost, and there's nothing that lightens up the mood like those silly buggers.

Arbiter7
05-01-2009, 04:13
Hmmm. Thanks for the replies guys!


Can someone please post a link to the DoW rules because I can't seem to find them anywhere on the GW website. Thanks!

RossS
05-01-2009, 08:35
Here is the link to the DOW main list.

http://oz.games-workshop.com/games/warhammer/dogsofwar/gaming/armylist/assets/regimentsofrenownPart1.pdf

You should really consider those duellists. They are phenomenal, and pretty cheap.