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OllieC23
07-01-2009, 13:33
Am starting a VC army (2000pts) and am wondering how to set up my skellies.

I am planning on 2 15-20 man blocks, and im currently thinking one unit spear the other sheilds.

However as VC are mainly a win by combat resolution army Im thinking both units as spears would be better. They lose the extra save in combat that sword skellies get but as they are likely to be stuck in combat for a while they get the extra ranks' attacks?

What do you lot think? Thanks, Ollie

EvC
07-01-2009, 13:42
Spears are not a good choice tactically, as you will want your hand weapon and shield bonus to limit casualties.

But they look damn good :)

Neckutter
07-01-2009, 13:51
skeletons arent good in HtH. you want static combat res, so a sword is the way to go. HW+shield ftw.

on a side note, ghouls are better than skellies in HtH AND they march before the game, whereas skellies are slow and blah.

Chaos Undecided
07-01-2009, 13:56
Personally where there is the option to do so I invariably have a block of spears and a block of hand weapon/shield troops no matter the army.

No tactical reasoning I guess just pure aesthetics, I believe there've been several threads comparing the performance of the two setups in the past.

EvC
07-01-2009, 13:58
You can guarantee better CR with Skellies though... but yeah Ghouls are technically better.

efrahim
07-01-2009, 14:04
The gouls higher T is better than the save of the skellies most of the time, there is a calculation here on warseer somewhere. I Only use gouls, they can hit allot harder and they get the 25pt move thingy. And your vampires only need the summon goul skill...
But skellies with warbanner seems nice

Dark_Mage99
07-01-2009, 14:07
Remember that even if you have spears, you can still opt to use your sword and shield.

W0lf
07-01-2009, 14:12
Skellies vs ghouls is sooo close that its just personal prefrence. Skellies are far cooler imo.

Oh and always hand weapon + Shield. Skellies wont kill stuff, if you find yourself using spears then you probably want to be taking ghouls.

However thats not to say you cant build your skeleton units with spears and kindly inform your opponent before that its just for look purposes. I would do that as spears look far cooler.

Harwammer
07-01-2009, 14:17
If you don't find your skeles die in game, then by all means put spears on them.

They still have the option for hw+shield, they make a better points sink with spears AND they can perform better in combat against str 6 (hammerers, etc).

If you don't have many spare points, or if your skele units tend to die, then don't bother with the spears.

semersonp
07-01-2009, 15:50
VC skellies = swords

skellies are there to live(?), give combat res to your characters and carry amazing banners for cheap...

don't give your opponent free res... take shields :)

OllieC23
07-01-2009, 16:11
Thanks for all of your replies, very helpfull:D [QUOTE=Harwammer;3184319]They still have the option for hw+shield,/QUOTE]

Thanks i hadnt realised that. Nothing about it in the FAQ either. I think ill redo my list witt the skellies with swords and see how many pionts i have left.

Another question;
Size of skellies in a 2k game? 20, more or less and raise free ones?

Cheers

Stronginthearm
07-01-2009, 16:18
i tend to start my skellies at 15 man squads and have one vamp with lord of the dead trying to get them to 20 before serious combat insues but thats just me

orkz222
07-01-2009, 16:46
keep them cheap, sw + sh. If u really want to use spear, bring small unit and raise them above start strength.

RossS
07-01-2009, 17:42
This is purely theoretical, but what if you were to deploy a corpse cart within 6" of a unit of skeletons with spears. You could cast "Miasma of Deathly Vigour" and give the unit ASF. That could be dangerous against certain (generally, squishy and pitiful) units. I've never done it (too risky, and I prefer my skeletons not re-dying), but it could work on a very situational basis.

Jericho
07-01-2009, 20:59
If you're playing a magic-heavy list and have the ability to raise units above their starting size, then spears aren't a terrible option. You only pay for the first 10-15 spears, and the rest are free.

The option of going spears or HW+shield is nice. If you run into something you're actually better than in combat, spears aren't a bad thing. And since you will often run into enemies which will punch through medium armor, then spears will ensure you get some meager attacks back instead of none.

Talash
07-01-2009, 20:59
I run a very magic heavy (duh) VC list for tournaments, and find spears to be fantastic when paired with a) corpse carts and b) the helm of commandment. Deploying the unit 7x3 with a Vampire (with avatar of death) in the front has seen off more units than I can believe. With 3 s7 / 4 s5 attacks from the Vamp and then 14 s3 attacks from the skellies, all at ws7 with ASF, its quite nasty. All I need to do most of the time is outnumber my opponent and its almost auto-win. Plus arming 40 skellies with spears is a "whopping" 40 points, and you retain use of HW+S anyhow.

explorator
08-01-2009, 03:17
I always use the sword and board combo. I have come to realize that the best skellie is a cheap skellie, and that combined with the decent armor save decides it for me.

Scythe
08-01-2009, 06:02
Thanks for all of your replies, very helpfull:D

Thanks i hadnt realised that. Nothing about it in the FAQ either. I think ill redo my list witt the skellies with swords and see how many pionts i have left.

Another question;
Size of skellies in a 2k game? 20, more or less and raise free ones?

Cheers

I personally deploy them in units of 25 (5x5), but my vampire counts army is not power dice heavy. If you take the summon appraoch with tons of low level castings; you can do with down to 10-15 models (as long as you take the approriate power on your vampire).


I run a very magic heavy (duh) VC list for tournaments, and find spears to be fantastic when paired with a) corpse carts and b) the helm of commandment. Deploying the unit 7x3 with a Vampire (with avatar of death) in the front has seen off more units than I can believe. With 3 s7 / 4 s5 attacks from the Vamp and then 14 s3 attacks from the skellies, all at ws7 with ASF, its quite nasty. All I need to do most of the time is outnumber my opponent and its almost auto-win. Plus arming 40 skellies with spears is a "whopping" 40 points, and you retain use of HW+S anyhow.

An interesting appraoch I though about using a few times, but never actually tested in game. Good to see some people have good results with spear skeletons, makes me want to try dusting off my own. ;)

Cambion Daystar
08-01-2009, 12:12
... skellies are there to live(?), ...


Soo funny :)

Walls
08-01-2009, 13:21
Weird, I've been pondering the use of a spear unit too. Good 6 wide unit,, throw a vamp in there or your BSB and a corpse cart nearby. Bust out a challenge when charged, hopefully get overkill for CR, take full command, attack first with 2 ranks... I dunno... add in the Helm nearby and that suddenly is a lot of hits, even at Str 3. That's better then a unit of any human spearmen AND cause fear AND don't break AND can be rez'd.

I do run a unit of sword and board. I was thinking the skeletons with spears would be a good frontline to accompany my ghouls and/or grave guard. The hw/shields providing backup... hmmm...

Latro
08-01-2009, 18:03
Most of the dislike for Skeleton Spearmen comes from previous editions when they really were a bad choice. The new VC armybook has changed all that though. They're still bot the best allround choice, but certainly very effective when taken in the right army.

Like some have said before, in a magic-heavy army they can really shine. A 7-wide formation with spears, a nearby Corpse Cart and the almost must-have Vampire with the Helm of Commandement can give your opponent much more problems than you would expect of such a "weak" combat unit.

You opponent now can't afford to let the bound spells from the Corpse Cart succeed, but he already has to cope with the rest of the very strong VC magic phase as well ...

Every round of combat the Skeletons will score a few kills. Perhaps not enough to win the first round, but soon enough the opponent will start to lose rank-bonus ...

I have found them to be well worth it, if you know what you're doing.


:cool: