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Anton
07-01-2009, 19:04
When choosing magic defense for an army, is MR a viable option? I am mostly looking for feedback on whether MR is a viable route in an Empire army, but all experiences are welcome.

For the Empire, I find it hard to justify. Only three magic items provide MR; Shroud of Magnus (costly), Sigil of Sigmar (cheap) and the Standard of Arcane Warding (good cost).

The problems, as I see it:
- Takes up magic item points of characters.
- Inflexible. You can't choose where to put your DD. If the opponent casts beneficial spells, there is little you can do. Normal DD, on the other hand, can be used however you want.
- Easy to see through. When the enemy has tried casting a spell at your MR (2) unit once, he simply chooses to cast elsewhere.

As I see it, wizards are better. For the points, you also get some offensive magic. If you need additional protection, buy Dispel Scrolls or items which grant other protective properties.

But this is just my point of view. Maybe other armies have better options when it comes to Magic Resistance. What do you all think of MR? Have you found a place for it in your army?

Condottiere
07-01-2009, 21:00
Magic Resistance is great if you can bestow it on unit(s) you know will be targeted. It's free Dispel Dice, and especially welcome in sub2K games.

Empire might have too many units to protect that way, but it's meant to keep your really elite ones safe (to an extent).

Jericho
08-01-2009, 23:03
MR is a handy way of protecting units that attract a lot of attention in the magic phase. If you are worried about playing Ogres, VC or any army that uses buffs rather than direct damage spells, then MR can be left at home.

On a unit of Knights, Greatswords or any other solid combat unit some of the cheaper MR items can pay dividends for Empire. I wouldn't spend a lot of points on MR if I can help it though, as you say it is reasonably easy to work around it.

A decent number of dispel dice is probably more important than MR. If you already have that, then consider taking the additional protection if you have points left over.

Darkangeldentist
08-01-2009, 23:12
Magic resistance is ideal if you plan on putting lots of eggs in one basket. If you create an uber unit of doom it's a relatively effective way of generating good magically protection as resistance give you the dice every time a spell is cast on them. So long as the target unit is tempting or just dangerous enough you can suck up your opponents magic phase trying to break through the resistance.

Goruax
09-01-2009, 02:19
The Standard of Arcane Warding for the Empire is a steal for its cost and will help protect a unit you want protected.
You mentioned the opponent ignoring them after realising they have MR - that should be fine! They then have no chance whatsoever of damaging them in a whole phase, which is always useful.

Scythe
09-01-2009, 06:28
Yup, the 'ignoring' part should be a pre. Your opponent is ignoring one of your (hopefully) expensive and dangerous units in the magic phase in favour of a weaker unit, which should be a win situation for you, even though you are not actively 'using' your magic resistance.

A friend of mine plays Orcs and Goblins, and used to take Stone Trolls all the time. And they were practically never the target of any spell, due to opponents thinking that was pointless due to MR. Had they been normal Trolls, fire mages would have burned them 10 times over.

Cambion Daystar
09-01-2009, 08:54
Problem is, you can't protect the units that need it the most.
For example pistoliers, warmachines, ranged units, DETACHMENTS!.

EldarBishop
09-01-2009, 09:19
The MR route would be much less effective for an Empire army then it would for say VCs or Brettonians mostly due to number of units you'd want to protect.

I've had great success with my Brets using two lvl 1 scroll caddys at even 2k by giving MR to my two bigger Knight units.

Guy Fawkes
09-01-2009, 21:27
The problems, as I see it:
- Takes up magic item points of characters.
- Inflexible. You can't choose where to put your DD. If the opponent casts beneficial spells, there is little you can do. Normal DD, on the other hand, can be used however you want.
- Easy to see through. When the enemy has tried casting a spell at your MR (2) unit once, he simply chooses to cast elsewhere.

As I see it, wizards are better. For the points, you also get some offensive magic. If you need additional protection, buy Dispel Scrolls or items which grant other protective properties.

But this is just my point of view. Maybe other armies have better options when it comes to Magic Resistance. What do you all think of MR? Have you found a place for it in your army?

Magic Resistance is a bit better than you give it. There are a plethora of good things about it as well.

First off, it is generally cheaper to get magic resistance than dispel dice. If you are playing an army where some things must not get hit by magic, but you can't afford Wizards, items that provide MR make a good alternative. If you completely rely on some Greatswords, Knights, or whatever to play a big role in your game, but really could care less about 2d6 wounds on the cheap Spearmen, MR is cheap to get on one unit. It also dissuades the enemy from targeting the key unit in the first place. Even if you don't dispel the spell, by forcing the enemy to choose a different, more resilient/expendable target, MR serves its purpose. This is really more of a concern for armies like Ogres, Warriors of Chaos, or the like, where units on a whole are more expensive or there is greater stratification between units in points costs. Nobody cares if Gnoblars take the brunt of magic, so by putting MR 2 on the Ironguts, you protect the only unit in your army that can take on Steam Tanks, Heavily armored stuff, etc... So I think your argument that MR just causes the enemy to target something else is flawed, since this is typically what you would want anyways. How often are two units worth the same to you as a General in your army list?

Secondly, MR can move around. Characters, especially mounted ones, can provide roving magic support. This also gives extra protection to characters, who when on their own are hard to shoot at, but excellent targets for the auto-hitting spells or spells like "Steal Soul". As different things become important or expendable as the game wears on, the MR can move accordingly. Also, you lambaste MR because it uses up a character's magic item slots, but this is typically preferable to spending an entire character choice on a Wizard and then his entire magical allowance on Dispel Scrolls or the like, especially since Wizards chosen for magical defense are unlikely to cast and are far more vulnerable than other characters. Most armies now auto-include one wizard, even if they don't plan on casting at all. Freeing up this choice by using talismans and magical standards to provide magical defense can really change the nature of the list.

Thirdly, MR is an "auto-stop" against some spells. Many spells have a large target and by using MR you can effectively gain free dispel dice against the large bombs, even for units that don't have MR in them. For example, the Casket of Souls targets all units with LOS to it. If any of these units or even a single character has MR, then the dispel roll benefits from these extra dice. Since Tomb Kings always cast, this can be very important. "Wind of Undeath" likewise targets all enemy units on the table and can decimate small support, like warmachines, and against large armies produce a very large amount of Spirit Hosts. If any unit in your army has MR, then you get the bonus. This can be huge against the game-breaking spell that you can't stop (your measly two dispel scrolls are gone or your 3 dice won't be enough).

Finally, MR is more cost-effective than dispel dice if you plan for limited magic phases. You typically only need a few turns before your fast units start killing enemy Wizards or your main blocks reach combat and are safe from magical missiles. Likewise, magic-assisted movement isn't so useful once everything is gridlocked anyways and charges are much harder to get off. MR also can usually stop bound items, one of the most effective (although expensive) ways of adding to the magic phase, since most bound items affect enemy units rather than friendly ones.

Sure, MR has weaknesses. It isn't as flexible as a Wizard and as aforementioned doesn't stop an opponent from buffing his own units (like Ogres), but generally it can help if you have something that can't be destroyed under any circumstances or is otherwise critical to your game plan. It's cheaper and much more useful when an opponent "machine-guns" with his Wizards, as is typical with the 6th ed. Lizardmen (and I suspect, still will be used frequently with the new Slann, even with miscasts and no multi-lore spells. Lord Kroak's "Deliverance of Itza" and the "Ruination of Cities" will also be much easier to take with MR, being area spells), Empire, Skaven, etc... MR isn't as useful against armies that use magic mostly to buff themselves, like Vampire Counts, Tomb Kings, Ogres, etc...

Wolfmother
09-01-2009, 21:35
i think MR is a viable option and i think shroud of magnus is well worth it on a general in greatswords

MR is good on units that have to be targetted by magic and units that have to be dealt with

although i dont think only magic resitace is a good route to take. i think you could probably get away with a general with shroud of maguns in greatswords and 3 warior priests/wizards giving 5 dd and scrolls if you take wizzard this will provide a great magic defence and against alot of armies they wont get any spells through

selone
09-01-2009, 22:14
Bear in mind that the new FAQ has ruled MR only applies if a unit/character with MR is TARGETED by a spell. Cleansing flare f.ex gives no MR. Presumably MR has no effect against casket of souls now too.

Source GW FAQ part 2

Page 95, Magic Resistance, first paragraph. The second sentence should be replaced with: ‘The number in the brackets indicates the maximum number of extra dice that may be rolled when trying to dispel each spell that is targeted against the magically resistant unit.’

Guy Fawkes
10-01-2009, 03:59
Bear in mind that the new FAQ has ruled MR only applies if a unit/character with MR is TARGETED by a spell. Cleansing flare f.ex gives no MR. Presumably MR has no effect against casket of souls now too.

Source GW FAQ part 2

Ouch, that ruling does hurt MR. Casket of Souls states that it "affects" all enemy units that can draw a line of sight to the Casket. However, I do believe that MR unduly penalized Casket of Souls, so I feel this is a fair ruling. Nevertheless, MR still does protect against things that "target" everything, which is nice.

Man, Casket was a really good reason to take MR if you were facing Tomb Kings. Now there's no reason to, because only one spell (the weakest of the incantations really) targets enemy units directly. It's simply better to make the SSC fire twice. However, I still believe MR has many uses.