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TroyJPerez
09-01-2009, 06:15
Was talking with some friends at the shop where I play and we generally have a hatred for the dispell scrolls everyone seems to pack in mass. So we thought up a creative solution. What if Dispell scrolls worked like a Power Stone, instead of auto dispell it just gave you 2 more dispell dice to throw at something? Or we could do the opposite, have Power Stones autocast a spell with a power level of the Casting Cost. Any ideas how this would change the game? The only problem I really see is with Tomb Kings cause they have a funky magic system.

Condottiere
09-01-2009, 06:23
It's not an original concept, but I can't recall exactly who came up with it last. I do recall it was mentioned during the last discussion over Dispel Scrolls, and proposed restrictions and limitations thereof.

TroyJPerez
09-01-2009, 06:27
Did they come up with any issues of balance? Or possible flaws in the system? I think my hatred of dispell scrolls comes from rolling 20+ on one spell not getting double 6's and having some bastard pull a dispell scroll to stop the spell, lol. Just feels wrong, lol.

Condottiere
09-01-2009, 06:34
I think every aspect was covered, plus a great deal of ill feeling concerning usage.

My position, since my army isn't renown for outstanding spellcasters, is that I max out on them; others who spend oodles on wizards prefer to limit it to perhaps one per wizard, if not one per list.

There were variations on dispelling methods. The thread was maybe anytime from June-September 2008, I forget.

DeathlessDraich
09-01-2009, 09:55
Did they come up with any issues of balance? Or possible flaws in the system? I think my hatred of dispell scrolls comes from rolling 20+ on one spell not getting double 6's and having some bastard pull a dispell scroll to stop the spell, lol. Just feels wrong, lol.

20+ - sounds like a 2nd gen Slann who dominates the magic phase anyway and should not be given even greater latitude in the magic phase. He is strong enough.

3 lvl 2 wizards - total dispel dice = 5

With the present Dispel Scrolls rules - a max of 6 scrolls could be gobbled up by a Slann in a minimum of 2 turns leaving him with 4 turns of rampant magic - That is enough surely.

Changing the Dispel Scrolls to +2 Dispel Dice
Dispel Dice for the above = 17. This effectively negates magic for most armies *except* the Slann.

As a general rule, the +2 Dispel Dice ignores all armies except 1 maybe, and therefore should be rejected.


Having a 20+ casting roll auto dispelled may seem wrong to you but your opponent could easily come up with an equally unreasonable contention that rolling 20+ when casting also seems wrong. :)

skank
09-01-2009, 10:13
How about scroll fails on a 1? (5 points cheaper?) Just to take away the certainy.

theunwantedbeing
09-01-2009, 13:05
Scrolls failing on a 1 would be better than them generating +2 dispel dice.

+2 dispel dice is pretty worthless as things go if you've run out of dispel dice.
The enemy just cast a spell on a 16!
I'll use my dispel scroll
*Rolls 2d6*
Damn...only an 8, dispel scrolls suck!

Another idea to throw into the works to be totally ignored by everyone would be dispel scrolls taking 2d6 off the enemy casting roll.
THis wouldnt stop irresistanble force of course but when you roll a 15 for a 10+ to cast spell, you bring out the dispel scroll and dock that 15 by on average 7 to a measly 8, whih means the spell has not cast as he missed the casting value.

That puts it in the realms of being quite useful then, as opposed to being extra dispel dice where it's not at all useful against any spell unless you already have mountains of dispel dice or have magical resistance.

GranFarfar
09-01-2009, 15:23
With the present Dispel Scrolls rules - a max of 6 scrolls could be gobbled up by a Slann in a minimum of 2 turns leaving him with 4 turns of rampant magic - That is enough surely.


If you use 6 scrolls on 2 turns, then you are using them on every spell cast, more or less. Even measly d6 missiles, which of course is a waste.

The strenght of magic is overstated if you act like this is needed. 6 scrolls should get you through most of the game, if you limit your use to spells that actually matters.

I could stand seeing scrolls change, or being limited some way. Against most races, they are a cheap way to all but nullify alot of points put into magic users.

Condottiere
09-01-2009, 16:00
Four scrolls are usually enough at 2K. Of course, that assumes you're in combat by the third round, and have a chance to kill a spellcaster by the fourth.

Bac5665
09-01-2009, 16:35
I think scrolls are fine as is. For the most part, more than 2 is a waste, and most of the tournament heavies in my area only take 0-2. My roommate (who has shelves of tourney awards) doesn't take any in most of his lists. While scrolls may be annoying to a high magic army, they are good overall, since they are points not being spent on troops/units.