PDA

View Full Version : New Lizzards, The Cronicle of Zardoz



blackjack
09-01-2009, 17:34
Ok just wrote up and glued my first Lizardmen army. I am using the new rules and will be playing it tonight. I have no idea whom my opponent might be.

Slann
BSB
War Banner
Diadem of Power
+1 power die per spell cast

Skink Priest
Level 2 Wiz

Scar Vet
Light Armor
Shield
Great Weapon
Charm of the Jaguar
Fire Fly Poison

Scar Vet
Cold One
Shield
Light Armor
Carni Amulet
Sword of Might

16 Temple Gaurd w full command

12 Spear Saurus
12 Spear Saurus
12 Spear Saurus

10 Skinks
10 Skinks
10 Skinks
10 Skinks

5 Cold Ones

1 Counts as DOW Cannon
1 Counts as DOW Cannon (will use skink gunners and model the cannons to be covered in vines and such. Fluff is that these are "reclaimed" cannons from the enemy, the Slann knows alot about high tech and thus can teach the skinks to make gun powder, the cannon balls are carved out of rock.)

1999pts

Fluff to follow.

Malorian
09-01-2009, 19:53
Well it will be interesting to follow this, and interesting to play against it if we get the chance.

I think the carni amulet is a mistake though. Most of the time you'll break what you charge, so the extra attack from blood frenzy won't take effect until later. Usually when you break a block with cav you turn around to hit something from behind/flank. When you do this you really don't need 1 more attack, but the frenzy could actually stop you from doing this as you're forced to charge some warmachine or something.

I'd drop it and the sword of might for the piranah blade. Perfect for character killing and for taking out wraiths.

Nicha11
09-01-2009, 22:07
Looks like a solid list, but gunlines will give you trouble.

GodlessM
10-01-2009, 00:56
Ah but gunlines give everybody trouble, hence why they are shunned upon.

It will be a kewl looking list to say the least, and it's kewl that you are going for a friendly option rather than the optimized Salamanders, Krox and Steg (guilty as charged I'm afraid).

I will be keeping an eye on this. Should be trying out my own list tomorrow as well. BTW, are those Skink units ranked or skirmishing, 'cause ranked units of 10 Skinks will be highly ineffective.

Malorian
10-01-2009, 06:28
Ranked units of 10 skinks are the cheapest throw away unit the new LM can get.

blackjack
10-01-2009, 07:02
Ok so I am just back. Played a balanced dwarf army and Strong Deamons (are there any other kind?).


I got a tie against both of them. It is late I will write up a summary tommorow. Probably will not be able to recall a blow by blow.

Suffice to say I am pretty happy with the list. I rolled terrible against the dwarfs and my cannons did great things for me against the deamons. (he had a jugger herald and 3 juggers die turn 1)

blackjack
10-01-2009, 07:34
Just a quick run down on the armies I faced and a really light summary.

First Dwarfs

10 XBows
20 Silver Hammers, command, Lord, 5+ ranged Ward Save Banner
15 Long Beards, Command, Hero, BSB
10 Dwarfs no command
2 Bolt Throwers
1 Stone thrower, (could reroll direction dice)
1 multi barrel gun (hell fire cannon?)
1 Gyro Copter..

My Skinks screened my suarus, but 40 rank and file were too much and they got in the way of my charges and slowed me down, also keeping a strait line with 10 rank an file skinks was very hard, Went to 3 units of 10 skirmish skinks in the second battle.

Units of 12 Saurus also got in each ohters way and where too weak after shooting to threaten the dwarf blocks. Went with 2 units of 18 in my second battle.


Slann went with Shadows and killed a ton of Init 2 dwafs with pit.

Also Jag charm backed by a cast steed of shadows was very good. Jag hero leapt into enemy multi barrel gun and followed through into the stone thrower and finished off the xbow unit (which had been hurt by pit previously) making him the MVP.

Gyro copter killed my cannons on turn 2, I placed them too close to each other.

In the end his lord and hammers went toe to toe with my TG. My TG won several rounds of combat but the LD 10 hammers held every time while the lord wittled me down to just my Slann. In the end I had a Slann with 2 wounds left against 2 Hammers and the uwounded Lord.

My cold ones charged the beards but fantasticly bad luck killed only one, the beards then proceded to win combat, break my rerollable cold break test and then ran down the Cold ones! Dwarfs running down cav....

Skinks killed the gyro after a few rounds of shooting.

A unit of 9 sarus got chaged by the long beards lost combat but held allowing another unit of 11 saurus to flank the beards. The Saurus flank also failed to break the beards.

In the end I was down to 1 unit of 4 saurus. a Slann, 3 squads of skinks, my priest. (all my 16 TG and 32 regular saurus, 10 skinks and 2 cannons were dead)

He lost his unit of 10 dwarfs, his xbows, his stone thrower, his multi barrel gun, his Hammers were down to 2 models, his Long beards just above half, his gyrocopter dead. It was a slaughter on both sides we killed about 3/4 of each others VPs.

Malorian
10-01-2009, 14:18
A unit of 9 sarus got chaged by the long beards lost combat but held allowing another unit of 11 saurus to flank the beards. The Saurus flank also failed to break the beards.

That's the way to do it :D

Amazed he didn't break though. Was it because of a rune?

Lordsaradain
10-01-2009, 14:48
Zardoz?

Did you also see that horrible movie with Sean Connery?

GuyLeCheval
10-01-2009, 14:51
That must have been a cool battle...

Aurellis
10-01-2009, 15:07
Sounds like a good battle, I do love Pit of Shadows going off against Dwarfs.
Well done, you did well for your first games with Lizardmen

blackjack
10-01-2009, 17:03
Zardoz?

Did you also see that horrible movie with Sean Connery?
__________________

You bite your tounge! Zardoz is Sean Connery's greatest movie! A true Sci Fi Classic!.

blackjack
10-01-2009, 17:26
Ok Second battle summary.

Second battle was against Daemons.

His list

3 Juggernaughts
1 Herald of Khorn on a Jugger

5 Flamers

3 screamers

11 Plaugers with a Herald of Nurgle on a palaquin.

10 horrors
10 horrors

5 flesh hounds
5 flesh hounds

Herald of Tz on a Disk, w flames of tz and a dispell scroll.


I had modified my army

Slann
BSB
War Banner
Diadem of Power
+1 power die per spell cast

Skink Priest
Level 2 Wiz

Scar Vet
Light Armor
Shield
Great Weapon
Charm of the Jaguar

Scar Vet
Cold One
Shield
Light Armor
Carni Amulet
Sword of Might

16 Temple Gaurd w full command

18 Spear Saurus
18 Spear Saurus

10 Skirmish Skinks
10 Skirmish Skinks
10 Skirmish Skinks


5 Cold Ones

1 Counts as DOW Cannon
1 Counts as DOW Cannon (will use skink gunners and model the cannons to be covered in vines and such. Fluff is that these are "reclaimed" cannons from the enemy, the Slann knows alot about high tech and thus can teach the skinks to make gun powder, the cannon balls are carved out of rock.)

1999pts


He won first turn and used it to threaten my cannons with his hounds, and do a bit of magic. I lost a few TG.


On turn 1 my cannons obliterated his Herald of khorn and killed all his jugges except 1 wound on one survivor. My skinks finished that one off in the same turn.


I turned my cold ones to counter charge into hound unit if it charged my cannon. But on turn 2 his shooting killed 3 coldones. reducing me to to 2 cold and a hero which is not strong enough to challenge 5 hounds. So I endedup turning a squad of 18 spear saurus to cover a cannon. Essentially his 5 hounds on one flank held up about 300pts of my army for the entire game.

On my other flank however. 10 skirmish skinks shot at hounds, fleed from hounds, then stood and shot at hounds. in the end killing 3 and wounding 1 through shooting and actually winning combat in CC! 70pts of skinks killed 175pts of hounds!

A diffrent unit of skinks also killed his squad of 3 screamers in one volley.

His flamers and Herald pummeled my TG to the point that when his Nurgle charged I choose to flee instead of fight. In the end of the game I had 6 or 7 TG left but my Slann was unharmed.

My 2 other skinks units did well but they could not kill over half of anything. I may go back to 4 squads of skinks but keep the skirmish, it is simply much easier to manover them as skirmishers.



So in the end we killed very little of each other.

He Killed my Skinks priest, Half my TG, Half my cold ones and 1 cannon.

I killed his juggers, his sceamers, his Herald of Khorne and 1 unit of hounds. My skinks had taken bites out of his flamers and a horror block but could not get them below half.

I ended up about 200vp ahead for a Tie!

However I was very lucky in this game. My skinks should not have been able to kill an entire hound unit on thier own. My cannons only got to shoot once in the game but where pretty much perfect in effect. If I had not gotten off a near perfect cannon volley I think this game would have been an easy win for the deamons.

In my first two games my cannons have done alright but they have only been able to fire on turn 1 before being killed for forced to flee. I think this will get better if I get some games in with hills in my dep zone.

Skinks still rock, I need to find a way to fit in another squad of 10 skirmishers, Thier high cost is a bit of a bummer though.

saurus blocks are still slow and easy to out manuver. In my second battle neither of my blocks got to see combat. If my opponents Juggers and herald had lived they would have been broken to pieces in any case.

TG are fire magnets, in both games they where the center of attention from every ranged fire weapon on the board. I need to find something else for the enemy to think about. My spear blocks are so slow that the enemy is not threatened by them for several turns and can thus ignore them.

SevenSins
10-01-2009, 18:32
nice to get some input on the new Lizzies.
Just one thing; Those cannons, are they legal? Seeing the way DoW has been going lately i doubt the option for DoW are mentioned in the new LM book...

blackjack
10-01-2009, 19:16
Yes hey are legal. The DOW book specifies what armies can hire them. They do not need to be mentioned in the Lizzy army book. These days none of the new army books mention DOW.

That being said some tourneys disallow DOW but most don't have a problem with it.

blackjack
10-01-2009, 19:19
That's the way to do it

Amazed he didn't break though. Was it because of a rune?
__________________


Yes the Rune of terrible dice rolls....

I had some really really horrible luck in CC with my dice. But also that unit had a banner, bsb and numbers.

Famder
10-01-2009, 19:58
Your TG had a Slann, they couldn't opt to flee because they were ItP.

blackjack
10-01-2009, 20:04
Flander, You are correct!

My bad. Shows what happens when you play a new army.

That would have made a big diffrence in the daemons favor!

Lotl Botl
10-01-2009, 22:37
it looks like our old liz lists with a little tweak are still playable

Nicha11
11-01-2009, 01:54
My challenge to you is to take the deathstar.

Maxed out Slann with Astrok Skink and Special TG characters in 21 TG.
Should come to around 1500pts, a few RNF skinks and your list is complete!.

Znail
11-01-2009, 09:08
If you have trouble with the speed of the Saurus, maybe try some Skinks with Kroxigors?

bored1
11-01-2009, 20:23
I don't think lizzies lend themselves to deathstar tactics in this edition.

blackjack
11-01-2009, 21:49
The issue with skink krox units is the T2 6+ save skinks. they die in droves.

MURPH
11-01-2009, 23:40
Murph here, (his daemons opponent)

My analysis,

What I liked about the changes in the lizards:
-Higher point cost of skinks
-lower point cost of saurus
-JSoD is a bound item and can be protected against.
-Slaan can only take one lore.

Game analysis:

Initially it was sketchy with the cannons pulverizing the Juggers(540pts down the tube), but in the end my flesh hounds kept both of his saurus blocks at bay with the movement. The ItP thing wouldve changed it to a minor victory in my favour had I been able to eliminate the remaining temple guard, of which there were 4 or 5. C'est la vie. The risks of playing without the army book.

Adios,

Murph

Feefait
12-01-2009, 00:11
Slann can only take one lore now? I missed that in the rumors section. That stinks. Why play without the book instead of waiting a couple weeks? But i guess that would explain the cannons and such. No new razordon, sally or stegodon rules at hand.

GodlessM
12-01-2009, 02:52
Because you get a feel for things before the new models come out. That way you know what to get.

blackjack
12-01-2009, 03:52
Cannons are Dogs of War, they have nothing to do with the new book.

Znail
12-01-2009, 05:56
The issue with skink krox units is the T2 6+ save skinks. they die in droves.

5+ actualy, as they got handweapon and shield. Only killing skinks means that the Krox will keep on swinging, and the skinks are plentifull. They are fast and the Skink/Krox unit will hit dead hard on the charge and with the numbers and rank bonus so can they break alot of enemies on the charge. They compare well with other infantry units during follow up rounds to, so are pretty good alround.

But why not try them out before you diss them totaly? They should be able to catch some enemies instead of just lumbering around atleast.

Nicha11
12-01-2009, 05:59
Can you put the Krox in the front of a mixed unit?
If so the Skinks can provide combat res without getting squished.

Feefait
12-01-2009, 12:21
Cannons are Dogs of War, they have nothing to do with the new book.


But if the new book does not have an option for DoW then I dont see that you can take them. If it's a house rule for you guys, or how you do it then fine by me, but I would not allow it in a game I was playing is all I am saying.

And playing without the book can hardly give you a feel for what to buy or use as you do not have the full rules, especially for the new additions. The list is pretty much a (by and large) standard lizardman list, which is cool actually. In fact all these things can be tried out using the current rules as they really aren't changing a whole lot, or they aren't being used other then points cost as they are being changed. I am just curious, I see a lot of reports on here from books thta haven't been released and I wonder how that works and why. Again, I'm not playing the game so it is not something I have an issue with, just curious. :) I think it's great when people try something different myself.

blackjack
12-01-2009, 15:23
But if the new book does not have an option for DoW then I dont see that you can take them. If it's a house rule for you guys, or how you do it then fine by me, but I would not allow it in a game I was playing is all I am saying.


It is not a house rule. The rules for using DOW are specified in the DOW book. They do not need to be repeated in the other army books.

The DOW book is still legal and the rules in the DOW book specify what armies can and can not take DOW units.

See the rules clarification section of the forums for more information.

Feefait
12-01-2009, 18:04
The skaven book says that weapons teams cannot be targeted if within 5" of their parent units just as a single character cannot be targeted. However in 7th edition that rule does not exist as it did and so weapons teams no longer benefit from the rule, even though it is in the book. The new rules preempt the old ones. I am sorry I did not mean to start an argument and I do not mean to bash on your list. But DoW is not a 7th edition book and is not updated. The updated lizardman book does not say they can take DoW. Previous editions did specify that they could replace a rare with a DoW, so as for the necessity of them being repeated I would agree, they do not need to be repeated as they are not part of the list. If they were to release a new DoW book tomorrow and it said that any armies could take it regardless of whether it says so in their own book, then I would say go right ahead.

I do not think this is "powergaming", personally I think there are a lot of things in the book that are better, and I personally would like better then cannons. For me they just don't seem to fit, but it's not my army. I would have a lot less of an issue with it if you had included Inxi's raiders or whoever it is, the skink cold one riders. To me that would fit more fluff wise.

Well that's my peace. Again, don't mean to rag on your list or anything, just curious and seemed a good point to try to clarify. I appreciate any bat rep, they are my favorite forum here, and look forward to more. :)

blackjack
14-01-2009, 05:04
In response to it's many critics I will drop my DOW cannon for my next battle. Hopefully tommorow.

I will field

Slann
BSB
+1 power die per spell cast
Dispell Scroll
3 Power Stones
Plaque of topec (+1 spell)

Skink Priest
Level 2 Wiz
Diadem of Power

Scar Vet
Cold One
Enchanted Shield
Light Armor
Sword of Might

16 Temple Gaurd w full command

18 Spear Saurus, w Banner
18 Spear Saurus, w Banner

10 Skirmish Skinks
10 Skirmish Skinks

10 Rank Skinks
10 Rank Skinks

4 Teradons

3 salamanders (I do not hold out much hope for them making their points back but we will see. I am going to use the new deamon flesh hounds as Sallies, they look more like lizardmen models than daemons and I flat refuse to pay what GW wants for a Salamander.)

1997pts

Malorian
14-01-2009, 05:38
Might as well break up the salamaners since you have the rare slot open.

I'd also suggest that if you do that you should go with 1 salamander and 2 rasordons.

Wrathiel
14-01-2009, 05:42
i played with the new salamander rules tonight.

they are good. possibly better than they were before.

Staurikosaurus
14-01-2009, 06:17
Your list rings in at 2001 with the new rules.

I would suggest that you re-look at the Slann abilities because of what you're paying for in power stones is just asking for a miscast. Without Cupped Hands or Soul of Stone your Slann will be toast.

I do not recommend the Diadem. For the same points you can take a dispel scroll. If you're looking for magic defence consider an engine of the gods, Becalming Cogitation and/or Plaque of Dominion. These three work wonders.

Other than dying really fast, what were you planning on doing with your 50 pt skink regiments?

Kerill
14-01-2009, 06:44
Perhaps redirection, missile shield at need and some missile attacks?

Znail
14-01-2009, 07:02
Makes sense, you cant angle the skirmishers for a redirect. I still wish to see the Krox in skinks unit at work, but I guess someone else might try it.

blackjack
14-01-2009, 14:06
Perhaps redirection, missile shield at need and some missile attacks?

Yes exactly and they can also be rank removing flankers if they survive enough. Just being cheap wounds really helps.



Your list rings in at 2001 with the new rules.

I get 1997 myself. Not sure where our 4pt diffrence comes in.


I would suggest that you re-look at the Slann abilities because of what you're paying for in power stones is just asking for a miscast. Without Cupped Hands or Soul of Stone your Slann will be toast.

Slann are not large critters any more so they cant be targeted in the back ranks, they do get Look out sir because they are no longer US5, they still have 5 wounds and a 4+ ward. I think he will survive just fine thanks, IMO putting survival abilities on a Slann in an TG unit is a waste of points.

Power stones on my Slann no more beg for miscast than having any large number of PD to does. I agree miscast is a problem but so is having 12 PD+ in any army. I am considering taking Ixlt grubs instead of one power stone though.


I do not recommend the Diadem. For the same points you can take a dispel scroll.

I disagree about the Diadem, I think it is one of the best buys for anti magic in the Lizard man army. Vs a Single use scroll I would take the +2DD every turn any day even at the cost of 2PD. If you are right about the point cost however I could take my Priest down to Lvl1 and buy 2 scrolls, thus saving 10pts.


If you're looking for magic defence consider an engine of the gods, Becalming Cogitation and/or Plaque of Dominion. These three work wonders.

I don't think Plaque of Domination is around any more or I would buy it. I think the Slann specific plaques where all cut in the new edition. I was considering Becalming Cog but the point cost is very high. Not sure how engine of the gods helps with anti magic other than granting the skink Priest +1Dispel Die and for course this is very very expensive.

Arguleon-veq
14-01-2009, 18:34
The Dow are totally legal so if you want to use them at your gaming group, use them.

That is like saying Beastmen are not legal because they are not 7th Ed.

The DoW rules were re-released in PDF with updated rules [newer units included like the Armoured Orcs] in 7th Ed, along with rules on who can take them. There has been no statement from GW nulling or voiding these rules. So they are obviously still legal, the supplement that regarded who can hire them even says that it no longer includes the options in the books as the rules in the supplement cover it fully.

Just because GW is planning to stop DoW doesn't mean they arent legal to be taken now untill GW decide to release a statement claiming so.

So untill 8th Ed, where DoW will not have their rules re-released in any format and no book will have the DoW option. They are legal.

Kamenwati
15-01-2009, 01:22
Given that the latest GW tournaments have been limiting DoW to just Ogre Kingdom units with that have to DoW rule and to armies whose book says they can take DoW I would have to say the old DoW stuff is void. DoW as an army is also not listed amongst the legal armies for play.

However that is GW tournaments. If your local store wants to allow the old DoW stuff then by all means take them.

Feefait
15-01-2009, 11:59
I have no idea what to say about the slann. most of this stuff is new and we can't really say what is "better or worse" yet. I like his idea of massing powerdice though. I have never been one to field an army based on bad stuff that could happen. I was always try to look at what good can come of it. In this case massive spell damage.
Skinks are skirmishers and cannot negate ranks, unfortunately. However I like the units of 10. With the shooting this means you can split their shots up to multiple targets much better. Myself, I have never brought skinks for survivability. They are they to sacrifice themselves so my saurus blocks can get in combat. They can also rediect, perhaps better then blocks. If an enemy is charging them then they have to first determine the closest model, then turn towards them. SO when they go after them and they run your angles are set, if it all works out... heheh

I am unsure on the slamanders. With the old rules i would say never split them up, a pack of 3 guarantees a dealdy volley on the unit. With the new rules, which I think is the flame template +artillery dice for where it lands then 3 might be necessary just to guarantee hits. One could easily under/overshoot, 3 you know you will get 1 possibly 2 almost right on top of them, dpeending on how close they are. However splitting them means you can shoot 1, see what happens then shoot the next one at the same or different target. It seems now the goal is to get as close ot the sallies as possible and overshoot. My suggestion on the models would be either to check out the Reaper stuff, or ebay for the old salamanders. I can't stand the new ones and like you think they are overpirced anyway. Maybe another rework soon hopefully...

Good luck. can't wait to read the report.

Kerill
15-01-2009, 14:32
DOW are legal until GW says otherwise. It's one army I would really love GW to re-release since it would benefit every army I have and give me something to do with all the empire bits and pieces I have from battlemasters :)

Feefait
16-01-2009, 05:09
I odn;t think tis a question of the legality of the list, so much as the legality of taking it in army books that don't give a DoW option. But we should move that discussion to the rules section.

Mullitron
16-01-2009, 16:49
You think its worth taking temple guard with the new book? Iwas talking to a friendly lizardmen player today whilst look through the new book and it was his opinion it was best to leave them out and just hide the slann behind some cover.

blackjack
17-01-2009, 06:56
Based on tonights battles I dont think temple guard are worth the points. The prolbem is that many of the best spells have limited range and you can't really hide the slann to use them unless they are magic missiles. (only magic missiles can be channled through a skink priest). This means the Slann has to get close and if he is not in a TG unit he is going to get run down.

My list
18 Spear Saurus w Banner, Music
18 Spear Saurus w Banner, Music
16 Temple Guard w Command

Slann
+1 Power die per spell
Plaque of Tepok
Power Stones x3
Ixtl Grubs
BSB

10 skirmish skinks
10 skirmish skinks
10 skirmish skinks

10 rank skinks
10 rank skinks

Scar vet
Light Armor
Great Weapon
Charm of the Jaguar

Skink Priest
L 2
Diadem of Power

Scar vet
Light Armor
Enchanted Shield
Sword of Might
Cold One

Salamander
Salamander
2000pts even

Fought a balanced dark elf player and lost.

Fought a really hard bret army with no magic by Malorian and was wiped out.

Fought the same daemon army list I had fought earlier and was also massacared.

In the game against the DE it came down to some bad dice rolls for me.

Against the Brets though, there was nothing I could have done. I played well held up his units while pelting them with magic. But it was uselss. Every time I won a combat he would break, escape and rally. When he would win I would get run down.

Against the Daemons I was so demoralised that I did not play well at all. But the fact remains I have no answer to his Juggernaughts without cannons. (yes I did manage to redirect and flank his juggers with my TG, I still lost commbat because his herald is so hard.)

So 2 ties and 3 losses for the mighty Lizardmen army. I would not say that the book and list are usless but I am certanly not doing well with them so far....

Znail
17-01-2009, 10:17
There are some fast hard hitting Lizardmen alternatives thou. Saurus cavalry, Kroxigors (possibly with skinks) and Stegadons (maybe with chief and warspear for added punch).

Saurus with spears are awesome at taking charges and prolonged combat, but they are slow and not so great when charging. They only have moderate strenght too so arent as good against Heavy Cavalry or Chaos Warriors. So you are realy lacking on of those canopener units that can move a bit faster. Not having anything that can threaten with charge of decent range leaves all the initiative in the opponents hands as well.

blackjack
17-01-2009, 15:57
Znail you are correct. But Lizards have NO can openers. M6 steggies hardly qualify as cav, Cold ones are still close to being the worst point for point heavy cav in the game. Krox were nerfed.

The enire army is bargan basment. Many of the units are great bang for the buck , fantastic deals, but lack any really spechial qualities. There is simply no UBER unit that can give the army spine. The lack of decent magic weapons is also a huge minus. Scarvets are again bargan units, fantasticly cheap but also not very good.

It's like an army of Toyota Corollas with no option for even one Ferrari.


I will not be changing my list much though. I think with practice I might eventuall eek out a win.

happy_doctor
17-01-2009, 16:41
What I would suggest is taking a more balanced approach to the game.

Although I've never played with the 7th edition rules, I've got more than 100 games under my belt with 6th edition lizards. (I've been playing them since 5th edition, around 1995)

What will win you battles isn't the magic phase on its own; you have lots of units that can perform well in combat.

Might I suggest the following list?

Slann, BSB, (+1 power die), Plaque of Tepok
Skink Priest, lvl 2, Cube of Darkness

20 Saurus, Full Command
20 Saurus, Full Command
20 Skinks (Cohort), Full Command
10 Skink Skirmishers, Blowpipes
10 Skink Skirmishers, Blowpipes
10 Skink Skirmishers, Javelins

4 Kroxigors (Despite their S6, they are still reliable can-openers)
3 Terradons
3 Terradons (great for warmachine hunting and taking out support elements)

Stegadon (ancient or not, it's your choice)
3 Salamanders/Razordons (again, whatever fits your style of play)

Don't know how many points that is with the new rules, but judging from your usual force, I'd say it's doable. You have two solid infantry units, a unit of skinks to add ranks to any combat and beat fast cavalry, 3 hard-hitting units (Stegadon, Kroxigors and Salamanders) and 5 skirmishers/harassers. Add to this a solid magic phase and good shooting, and you'll hava a force which can take on pretty much anything if it's well played.
If the points allow it, you could also field a small unit of chameleons for some early march-blocking, but I think that would only fit in a 2250 points army.

Needless to say, I'll be following your progress with much enthusiasm! Lizzies are a fun army to play and with the new rules I think that alternative builds will gain more strength.

Keep it up and don't get disheartened! Every army has a learning curve. (well, daemons don't , but that's another can of worms! : D)

Malorian
17-01-2009, 19:28
I'd seriously try a 3K list out. Basically your 2K list is a good solid force, but as you know has no counter attack units. At 3K you could add krox/steg/saurus cav as needed (plus a second slann for fun ;) ) and suddenly you have a very strong list.

Minus67
17-01-2009, 20:23
what lores of magic did you take in your games?

blackjack
17-01-2009, 22:00
Mostly shadow for a back up steed of shadows on my jag saurus, Unseen lurker on my TG and pit of shades against a certian somones plauge bearers, Against the brets I took beasts but failed to get beast cowers (and my slann knows 5 out of 6 spells!).

I will keep going with Lizzies. This is only my second army, but it is a big come down from daemons.

Minus67
17-01-2009, 23:39
why didnt you take metal vs brettonians? every spell in there kills them.

blackjack
17-01-2009, 23:45
LOL

That is EXACTLY what Malorian said when I started the game. I thought spear, cowers and angry bear would be good choices. Next time I will try metal.

Znail
18-01-2009, 03:45
Znail you are correct. But Lizards have NO can openers. M6 steggies hardly qualify as cav, Cold ones are still close to being the worst point for point heavy cav in the game. Krox were nerfed.

The enire army is bargan basment. Many of the units are great bang for the buck , fantastic deals, but lack any really spechial qualities. There is simply no UBER unit that can give the army spine. The lack of decent magic weapons is also a huge minus. Scarvets are again bargan units, fantasticly cheap but also not very good.

It's like an army of Toyota Corollas with no option for even one Ferrari.


I will not be changing my list much though. I think with practice I might eventuall eek out a win.

Just because they are more expensive for what you get (I dont think that is a fact, but dont think here is a place to argue that) , so doesnt that mean they arent there. Thats like not getting dispell scrolls because someone else can get them 5 points cheaper and then complain that you cant get scrolls! Its still worth getting atleast one unit that is an offensive threat as it will improve your army synergy.

M6 is fast enuff. You have alot of skirmish units and redirection units so even if slightly slower then cavalry so should you get your chance to charge something.

As is so will you always have serious trouble winning as you only got your 3 slow infantry blocks as only combat units. Now, the spear saurus is hard like nails so can pull alot of weight. But apart from those units so are the only units that can even do a supporting flank charge the small skink units and they suffer from the same problem that Zombies do in that alot of the gain from the flank charge will be lost from the easy CR from hitting the skinks.

Feefait
18-01-2009, 04:33
Well if you want my input it doesnt seem you have much to take a straight up combat. I myslef like big saurus blocks, but I am I think in the minority. I don't know what you have that would survive a full Brettonian chargem and though i've never played against demons by all accounts, well we've heard enough on them. You are fighting some of the "top tier" amries around, and your opponents seem to know how to use them. I am not sure about the single salamanders., but I've never tried it. I am a fan of the 3 pack. How do you like their new breath weapon rules? Are you sold on the skink priest? I tend to sacrifice them when I bring a Slann and go with more troops. Terradons may help to slow down the enemy as well to get you another magic phase. It's hard for me to offer advice as all my successes come primarily against my gaming group, and our playstyles.

Kerill
18-01-2009, 05:41
Temple guard should be able to take a bretonnian charge from any unit or 2 units unless they have the banner of the lady. That's another reason why gold would be your choice. It's also another reason for the bane head :)

Lizards actually seem quite an attractive army, I'm really considering starting them but led by a Tzeentch sorcerer instead of a Slann :)

blackjack
18-01-2009, 06:44
I am not sure about the single salamanders., but I've never tried it. I am a fan of the 3 pack. How do you like their new breath weapon rules? Are you sold on the skink priest?

The new Sallies are better than I thought they really excell at damaging enemy blocks. Unfortunatly handeling blocks is not what I am worried about, Lizzie blocks tend to be better than most enemy blocks. I did ok against Bret formations as well. but line cav are hard to target unless you shoot down a flank.

I am not sold on the skink priest, I am seriously considering dumbing him down to a level 1 and buying a D scroll. One of my major disapointments in the new book is the removal of the spawinging of tepok, now i have to blow at least two character slots on mages to get even basic anti magic.

Djekar
18-01-2009, 07:30
...now i have to blow at least two character slots on mages to get even basic anti magic.

Welcome to the wonderful world of having to go Heavy Magic as a magic defense. I hope you enjoy your stay here.

By the way, I am a little heartened to see that a balanced list (granted without the book on hand) is not slaughtering everything in sight. I have a buddy who is chomping at the bit to get his hands on the new rules, and from the rumors I was pretty scared. It's good to know that we don't have Daemons mark II on our hands (or worse yet, Orcs Mark II).

Thanks for the reports!

~Bullfrog

Malorian
18-01-2009, 14:49
I am not sold on the skink priest,

Skink priest have never really been any good on their own. With being forced to take lore of heaven you are basically hoping to get one of the lightning bolts so you can stay back and hide. (Although the shield is a nice spell too.)

Their main role is actually to act as a second pair of eyes for the slann.

The other bonus they have is that your opponent is so scared of the slann that when you do get spells off with the priest they usually just let them go through so they can save DD to use against the slann (even when their armor ignoring spell is better than the slann's fireball).

Kerill
18-01-2009, 16:28
Seems level 2 with the diadem is the best way to go for 7DD against magic heavy, or Level 2 on the engine of the gods with the plaque of tepoc, although a having a squishy skink priest on the engine might be an issue (although it allows you to challenge and thats 3S6 and lots of S3 attacks). The problem with the latter being I've heard that if the priest dies the engine doesn't function which would seriously nerf that idea.

I'm playing with lists at the minute, but I would have thought the warbanner on the slann and the jaguar standard on the temple guard would be a really good combo, +7CR, stubborn Ld9 is the answer to an awful lot of things, especially with a 2+AS champ to take challenges and pursuing 3D6" would be damn useful in a lizard list. Atm your list doesn't have many units and although scar vets are good for the cost of 2 tooled up you could get a unit of 3/4 kroxigor and have points to spare.

Bane head and gold magic would also be excellent against daemons since unless they pass their ward save its a dead herald of Khorne/nurgle. And it looks like burning iron can be cast into combat now as well.

Still I'm not a lizzie player at present so may well be talking crap.

Feefait
18-01-2009, 21:15
Skink priest have never really been any good on their own. With being forced to take lore of heaven you are basically hoping to get one of the lightning bolts so you can stay back and hide. (Although the shield is a nice spell too.)

Their main role is actually to act as a second pair of eyes for the slann.

The other bonus they have is that your opponent is so scared of the slann that when you do get spells off with the priest they usually just let them go through so they can save DD to use against the slann (even when their armor ignoring spell is better than the slann's fireball).


actually i swear by second sign. thats what i always hope for. not that i get it off a lot, but it always draws dd.

blackjack
18-01-2009, 23:36
Ok workinng on the plan for next week...

18 Spear Saurus w Banner
18 Spear Saurus w Banner
16 Temple Guard w Command

Slann
+1 Power die per spell
Plaque of Tepok
Bane Head
BSB

10 skirmish skinks
10 skirmish skinks
10 skirmish skinks

Skink P
Diadem

Scar vet
Light Armor
Shield
+1 Attack Sword
Cold One

Scar vet
Light Armor
Enchanted Shield
Sword of Might
Cold One

5 Cold ones
5 Cold ones

2000pts even

Lord of Nonsensical Crap
19-01-2009, 17:03
Ok workinng on the plan for next week...

18 Spear Saurus w Banner
18 Spear Saurus w Banner
16 Temple Guard w Command

Slann
+1 Power die per spell
Plaque of Tepok
Bane Head
BSB

10 skirmish skinks
10 skirmish skinks
10 skirmish skinks

Skink P
Diadem

Scar vet
Light Armor
Shield
+1 Attack Sword
Cold One

Scar vet
Light Armor
Enchanted Shield
Sword of Might
Cold One

5 Cold ones
5 Cold ones

2000pts even

Firstly, I have only now started reading this thread (my apologies for my late response), and I'm really liking it. It's giving me a lot of ideas for re-formulating my own army for the new book.

Now onto your list: personally, I'm a little tempted to say replace the Diadem for a pair of scrolls, since you seem behind a bit on magical defense. Other than that, though, it looks like a solid build: a strong central phalanx of infantry, flanked by Cav on both sides and with Skinks on interdiction duty. Good all around.

The main issue, however, remains the Juggernauts, as you have mentioned. Aside from magicking them to death, my best answer would be either to use a Stegadon (or Engine of the Gods) to hold them up, or yo equip your Scar-Veteran specifically for taking them on. Other than that (and possibly taking a Blade of Realities-toting Oldblood with optional Carnosaur), I can't really think of anything, seeing as I have only fought Daemons once.

Against the Brets...is the Gleaming Pendant of Chotec still in the book? Because I can see that as being a useful thing to use against them.
O

blackjack
20-01-2009, 19:27
Last nights battle

18 Spear Saurus w Banner
18 Spear Saurus w Banner
16 Temple Guard w Command

Slann
+1 Power die per spell
Plaque of Tepok
Bane Head
BSB

10 skirmish skinks
10 skirmish skinks
10 skirmish skinks

Skink P
Diadem

Scar vet
Light Armor
Shield
+1 Attack Sword
Cold One

Scar vet
Light Armor
Enchanted Shield
Sword of Might
Cold One

5 Cold ones
5 Cold ones

I took death magic for my Slann.


Faced off against the following High elf list.

Lord on a star dragon
Fire mage on a Dragon
2 squads of 10 sea guard, one with the extra power dice banner
2 bolt throwers
Wizard in one of the sea guard squads


Turn 1
Lizzards advance

HE Turn 1
Dragons land out of charge arc and start to breath on my cold ones.
Sea guard and magic slaughter most of my skinks. Bolt throwers on a hill kill 3 temple guard.

Turn 2.
I have no ranged weapons and no conceivable way to threaten his dragons. I canít advance my blocks or I will give rear flank to the star dragon. I canít sit still or the bows, breath and magic of my enemy will slaughter me. So I turn and try to drain life out of the Fire mage, dispelled, Try to cast magic missiles, scrolled. I move my other blocks forward and try to screen them with my cold ones.

My remaining skinks put a wound on a stardragon, nothing to the lord.

HE Turn 2
Star dragon charges a cold one block, I challenge with my scar vet, vet is killed by 5 wounds, coldones break, get caught, star dragon now in the rear of one of my spear blocks.

Shooting kills another few TG, my left coldones lose 2 from am irresistible wall of fire. I am still about 12 inches away from this sea guard and about 16 inches or more from his bolt throwers.

Turn 3
My coldones charge a block of sea gaurd who flee then rally next turn.

My TG turn to flank the star dragon on the off chance the spears hold.

My right spears choose to ignore the fire mage and advance on the sea guard.

Stardragon and lord kill 5 spears, break the unit and run it down.

scrolls and DD shut down my slann again.

HE turn 3
Star dragon flys to flank the right spear block as does the fire mage.
Non fleeing sea gaurd kill another coldone with missile fire.
Breath attacks kill about 6 right spears.
Bolts miss my TG for once.

I concede.

Can ANYONE tell me how they would play differently against this HE list or what kind of new lizard list can take it?

happy_doctor
20-01-2009, 19:51
This type of High Elf army is a tough match-up for your lizards.

First off, some questions, then some suggestions:

-Didn't your opponent have anything else in his army? It seems too small, even for an elite army. Plus, the seaguard can only take a banner up to 25 points, which the banner of sorcery is not.

-Why did you conceed? You had just drawn all of your opponent's scrolls, so it was time for your magical superiority to show. Drain Life could have won you the battle. The Temple guard are hard to shift, even for a stardragon. With a little creativity on your part, say challenging the beast with your slann (who has 4+ ward), you could have won the ensuing combat for a couple of rounds.

-While Death magic is a good choice of magic, I think that the lore of Beasts would have been more appropriate against the High Elves. Even the magic missiles could have hurt him a lot (remember, his troops and dragon mage have next to no armour). Your cavalry could have benefitted by "the wolf hunts" and there's no need to mention how effective a "beast cowers" is against dragons.

-In your list, the only thing that can counter a dragon, besides magic, is your scar-veteran with enchanted shield. 0+ save means that he'll be saving at 4+ against the dragon's wounds, giving him a good chance to survive or lessen the combat resolution generated to a point where the unit he accompanies will win.

-The enemy artillery is the reason why I think you should invest in a unit or two of Terradons. Bolt throwers aside, you had no reason to advance with your army, as he had to come close to make use of his main assets, the double dragons.
What happened is that 400 points of High Elves baited your 2000 points into the middle of the table, where they were taken apart by the enemy dragons. Experience shows that silencing 2 bolt throwers' worth of shooting isn't worth exposing your whole army to unfavorable charges.

-Remember that you can still flee with your saurus blocks and cavalry; Just because they are tough, doesn't mean that you can't use tactics. It should have been you who baited the dragons into charge range of your other blocks, not the opposite.


Most importantly, though, I find that the reason you "lost" is that you conceded the game. Even with the Temple Guard at half strength, you were looking at 2+ magic phases against T3 elves, one of which (your main target) was Bane Headed. You have to be patient with the lizards, it's in the last stages of the game when they truly shine.

For education purposes, here is a tourney battle report I did a year ago (when the HE had just been released), where I faced off against 4 dragons in 3 games. I had a chance of winning every one of them, and in fact I didn't lose any game by a large margin. That is, with a balanced lizardmen army list, who sported 2x18 saurus warriors! (yes, that's right, in 6th edition lizardmen)

Take a look, you might find some tricks worth using. (even they didn't all work out in the end)
http://warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=123680

Hope it helps

Happy_doctor

Malorian
20-01-2009, 19:53
Castle and defend with skinks. That mage dragon is fairly weak and will easily go down if your mage targets it. Skinks will make a mess of either, but you need a few more units of them to be safe.

Or you could have marched on his unit with the skinks in front to take all the arrows and bolts, and have the cav further back to protect your flanks.

Like I keep saying, try to put together a 3k list. Trust me, they do a LOT better. Otherwise try some different lists and try different thinks like dropping the slann completely and making a purely combat list.


Keep at it. When I started LM I had a bad record too. Once I found the right mix and figured the army out as a whole the wins started coming.

Staurikosaurus
21-01-2009, 02:19
Your list seems all over the place. You want to blast ppl with magic with the Slann yet don't take the ability that lets him just take a lore. As well you could really hinder an enemy magic phase with Becalming Cogitation. Take Cupped Hands of the Old ones and drop the Plaque of Tepok. Use that for a skink on an engine or something. Additionally, in a magic geared list (like the one you're fielding) you are paying 125pts for 2 dispel dice (diadem). Take 2 scrolls and actually get to use your level 2 priest. Portent of Far on Salamanders makes them incredibly disgusting.

Take a look at this list I used today against Bretonnia and against Dwarves this past Sunday**massacre in my favour on both counts btw

Scar Veteran
-light armour, sword of might, enchanted shield, cold one

Scar Veteran
-light armour, burning blade, shield of the mirrored pool, cold one

Skink Priest (lvl 2)
-war drums of xahutec, plaque of tepok, engine of the gods

Skink Priest (lvl 2)
- 2 dispel scrolls

18 Saurus with spears & full command (Scar Vet joins)

18 Saurus with spears & full command (Scar Vet joins)

26 Skinks with full command & 3 Kroxigors

2 Salamanders

2 Salamanders

1 999 points
7 Power
5 Dispel
85 models.

Every unit causes fear or better save the lone Skink Priest and it's his job to scroll bad things down and cast Portent of Far on the Salamanders. The War Drums make Saurus Ld 10 should I choose to bait and flee and also allow the Stegadon to march at all times. Highly valuable if you want to be agressive with The Burning Alignment. On the way in, your entire army benefits from a 5+ ward versus shooting thanks to the engine as well. The high M 6 of skink/krox guarantees them the charge. They can go toe to toe versus nearly any unit in the game and come out ahead.

Red
21-01-2009, 05:37
Just wanted to comment on the High Elf list.

The banner that generates PD (Banner of Sorcery) is 50 pts, Seaguard can only take 25pt standards. Just FYI.

A Star Dragon list is one of those 7th edition armies that is simply ridiculous. Don't have any doubts about the strength of the new Lizzies simply based on this army.

A lot of your difficulty is the Lore choices. I want to echo this statement...Lore of Metal against Brettonians is utterly devastating. Against the HE's, Beasts would have done well, Death should have done well. Maybe an extra turn or two, especially if you had castled your saurus.

*Cough cough* Get some terradons *Cough cough*

Asfaloth
21-01-2009, 08:38
First of all you got cheated (inadvertedly or not). No banner of sorcery and no mage in the seaguard (don't know if i got this right) as both dragons need an extra hero slot.
Second you should have had magic superiority. Your opponent only has 3 DD (without +1) and a maximum of two scrolls (and then the Dragon Mage has no ward). His offense is not too impressive either with 4 PD (and bonus dice as your Slann). The Dragon mage is really whimpy with T3 and W2 any form of shooting or magic missiles is a big threat for him. Razordons would be great. I even remember charging a Dragon Mage into the flank of some Saurus and the mage was slain by a single warrior. With 4 S5 attacks it can't really threaten infantry blocks.
The star dragon is different though and a tough nut to crack. Some counters would be cannons, supertough characters, challenges (and hope he fluffs his attacks) and magic. Against this weak magic defense and with your list the latter option seems the best. Lore of metal and bane head can really hurt it as can lore of beasts.

blackjack
24-01-2009, 07:00
Ok 3 more battles tonight. 1 loss 2 wins.

One win against VC

Lists did not matter. My opponent charges a block of 18 spear saurus with a lone VC lord. I think "oh my this lord must be S$%T hot", so I flee them and they get away, then my opponent procceds to spam vanhels till the Lord is in CC with my other 18 block of Saurus, I think Well I can't let this one guy run off my enitre army, so I stand. Turns out the lord is basicly Buck Naked! All he has is light armor on, no ward no nothing! He kills only 2 saurus, my back rank spears do 1 wound to him. He goes poof from CR and the rest is history (turn 1 loss of Lord for VC is practically auto lose, we played out the next 4 turns but it was hopless for him)...

For the life of me I can not understand what my opponent was thinking. So my first win with Lizards but hardly a proof of anything but bizzare play from my opponent.

Quick rules question, I used the wizards in 18' are stuiped banner, but I could not remember if it affected only wizards within LOS of the bearer or only wizards with LOS to the banner. If it was the latter then the banner was only of limited use, after turn 1 my oppnent just turned his wizards block so the wiz himself did not have LOS to the banner.

I also took becalming cog, a diadem and 2 dispell scrolls, the combination was pretty effective in controling his magic phase, but he had only 9 P dice, not exactly a typical vamp army....


My other two battles where against Old school Lizards!.. In the first battle he used a banner that gave him +1d6 movment in the magic phase to flank charge a spear block with cold ones, after front charging my TG with his TG. The cold ones broke my spears, the combination of TG and flank cold ones devestated and eventally broke my TG/slann for the win for him. Boy it would be nice to have that banner in the new book, but no..it was added to the nerf pile (the new versoin makes him use the +1d6 on the charge which would have forced him to charge the front of my spears and not be in position to charge throuh into my TG block even if he did win).

The second battle I played the old school lizards again. This time I played a bit smarter and he had to charge my spears on the front with his coldones, I won that combat. The TG TG battle went my way as well. Basicly won due to superior infantry and slightly better rolls.

Found new slamanders don't suck against block infantry, they helped my win in the second liz on liz battle.


So my record now is 2 wins, 2 ties, 4 losses. but I really can't credit that win over the VC...

Asfaloth
24-01-2009, 09:07
At least it shows the new list isn't weaker :)
And before you don't count the win against the VC you should discount the loss against the cheating HE.

Nicha11
24-01-2009, 09:26
That banner only makes wizards stupid if they can draw LOS to it.

FallenAfh
24-01-2009, 12:39
Not just LOS to the banner. Its also LOS to the unit bearing it.

Kerill
28-01-2009, 19:54
Another point on the HE battle, seaguard have bows not longbows he couldn't have shot any of your units since you start at least 24" apart. He's a cheat plain and simple, you could have blowpiped the mage to death fairly easy quite apart from your magic superiority.

I still think your list could use some terradons though.

Your list doesn't seem to be working well internally, partly because of your lore choices. 2 Units of saurus cavalry means your list is crying out for beasts lore, especially against that HE list (and putting one of the saurus on foot in case of that would save you 20 points, allow a GW for S7 as well).

blackjack
16-02-2009, 06:54
A Tale of two empire armies

Last Saturday I fought two very different Empire armies led by two very different Generals.

My list for both battles

18 spear saurus w banner
18 spear saurus w banner
16 Temple guard w full command

10 Skirmish Skinks
10 Skirmish Skinks
10 Skirmish Skinks

10 Rank Skinks
10 Rank Skinks
10 Rank Skinks

2 Salamanders
2 Salamanders

Slann
Focused Rumination
Becalming Cognition
Bane Head
Plaque of Tepok
Power Stone
BSB
Plaque of Dominion

Scar Vet
Light Armor
Sword of Might
Enchanted Shield
Cold One

My first battle was against a very new WFB player and his list and play reflected this.

He took
An arch lector with no speculum on foot.
3 warrior priests

1 unit of 25 halberds

3 units of Fanatics

2 units of 10 muskets

2 units of 10 bows

3 cannons.


I got first move and advanced everything, screening with my skinks.

For reasons unknown he advanced his muskets to within charging range of my salamanders. And his fanatics marched right up to my rank skinks. His Lector and halberds stay put, essentially leaving them out of range to support his fanatics.

Well on my turn 2 I charged my salies into his 10 muskets, broke them and got a very good over run into his cannons. For the rest of the game one unit of salamanders eats all 3 of his cannon crews and never fired a shot at all!

Against his fanatics I simply moved my rank skinks up and angled them to force the enemy charge in such a way that they would have to give my TG and a spear block their flank and rear. Having no choice the fanatics did so and my blocks got to counter charge and basically ground them down over the course of 3 or 4 turns.

My skirmish skinks and second unit of 2 salamanders out shot and forced several failed panic tests on his bowmen and remaining muskets.

In the end He had only his lector and halberds left and I had lost only my 3 rank skink units. Massacre for the Lizard men!


My second battle was against a very different army with a very experienced player.

He had

2 units of 10 muskets
2 units of 5 knights
2 hellfire cannons (the empire version of organ guns.)
2 regular cannons
1 mortar
1 unit of 25 great swords
1 unit of 25 sword and board
Level 4 wizard
Level 2 Wizard
Level 2 Wizard
Level 2 Wizard

10 dispel scrolls!

He mostly took fire magic.


Tactics where pretty basic for both sides. I advanced as fast as I could screening with skinks. He stood back and shot at me as a came, trying to flank with knights.

Durring the course of the game my opponent rolled 7 misfires and 3 miscasts! He blew up one of his own cannons. His mortar, even when it did not misfire, never hit a thing due to scatter. All his artillery combined only killed about 10 saurus and one unit of skirmish skinks all game!

I on the other hand rolled 3 irresistible spells. One that melted a unit of his knights with spirit of the forge.

He charged his other unit of knights into the front of one of my spear saurus which destroyed the knights by causing 15 wounds out of 22 attacks, the knights failing 3 saves! (losing only one saurus to the initial knight charge)

Becalming Cog saved me from about 4 spells cast by his lector, the rest of his magic missiles only killed a few saurus. On the ohter hand my plaque of domionion never caused one failed stuiped test.

With this kind of luck my opponent had no chance at all. My blocks made it into contact with his lines at almost full force. My rank skinks over ran his war machines and my salamanders wounded his blocks so badly that it was not even close when my TG and spears hit them.

A second massacre for the Lizards!

Conclusion.

Neither game really says much about my play or lizardmen in general. One fight was against a very new player who took a list that was designed to be baited and destroyed. The second fight was won by ridiculous dice rolls.


The Plaque of dominion did not do anything in either game. I am thinking of replacing it with 2 scrolls, or trying to find the space for a level 1 skink priest with a diadem for extra anti magic.

Kerill
16-02-2009, 07:50
Nice to see your are doing a bit better although I'm very confused about the ten scrolls- are you sure it wasn't a level 4 wizard rather than arch lector (lector has no ranged attack spells and can't take arcane items).

Nicha11
16-02-2009, 08:02
congrats on your two victories, and i agree the supidity banner is pretty useless.

I would consider mergeing your slamanders to get 3 Razordons and 1 Salamander.

The Razordons act as excellent flank guards, and you only need 1 sallie to cause panic tests.

Golden Lion
16-02-2009, 08:51
Just started reading this thread. I really like your lizard list! Mostly pure infantry, although skirmishing skinks are in a class of their own. You seem to be moving upward! Congratulations.

Although I usually don't like fretting over details and just enjoy the reports, the last empire list had me frown somewhat. Are you sure he had 10 dispel scrolls? An arch lector is no wizard, see. Despite the fact that 10 seems rather ridiculous (not ideal equipment I would say), it is definitely stretching the rules.

Still enjoying your reports! Thanks for posting and keep them coming.

blackjack
16-02-2009, 14:42
Must have been a 4th level wizard then. the lord was casting spells and his characters did indeed have 10 scrolls...

Famder
16-02-2009, 15:51
Like to see the results of battles with the new lizards. The HE game should have been a case where you turtled up in a corner out of range of his missle fire, or at least as far away as possible, and just fought the dragons as they came to you.

Do your opponents know in advance that they are playing lizards when they design their lists? Because with the exception of your night where you fought VC and old Lizzies, the lists have seemed a little tooled up to resist heavy magic, more so than is to be expected in a competitive list.

As far as your list goes, I think you should replace Sword of Might with the Burning Blade, it will make that Scar-Vet an even better can-opener. Most things you want to open up are not going to be higher than toughness 4 so the extra ability to wound isn't substantial. It also gives you some flaming attacks for taking care of things with regen. I think this weapon is better suited for taking on the Juggernaught unit you were so perplexed by earlier. Don't forget that the character can charge out if he has LoS to an enemy.

Drop a Sallie and the Plaque of Dominion, and buy some Terradons, they will solve some problems for you.

EvC
16-02-2009, 16:18
10 dispel scrolls... man, if I knew people like that I'd be bringing out the Oldblood list at every opportunity :D

Roxors45
16-02-2009, 17:54
I'm not trying to be mean, but no one has mentioned that you need to work on your tactics. I thought I read you played demons, but many will agree they're fairly "point and click", at least more so than Lizardmen so maybe with demons you weren't able to brush up on your tactics.

I see you keep using the same (or very similar) list despite being unsuccessful. Switch it up! I see you have big Anvil units yet no hammers (units to crash into flanks or lap around designed to break combats that your slower, tougher Saurus and TG have tied up). Keep the skirmishers, but you need to balance out your list and give it an identity. It seems you want to go magic heavy so do it.

OWN the magic phase. Take Becalming Cognition (I think you said you had success with it) and the free die per spell (Duh). And take Focus of Mastery, if your getting free die use the most of that ability. No one likes to miss out on Beast Cower when they could of guarenteed it for 35 more points (over Plaque of Tepok). And why not take the Engine? This adds a Hammer Unit, Magic offense AND Defense. Plus you get all those great abilities!

I think your running 3 blocks of Saurus AND a TG unit? Too many anvils. Ditch one or two and add those Terradons. Instead of spending 3 turns trying to get your army to those bolt throwers get there in 1. Fly up and throw some javelins (assuming your 24" from him they can fly 20 then throw 8). Beef up a unit of cav to 6. Take a steg. Something. Don't just play the same army over and over without tweaking. Your posting your problems and difficulties so lets fix them.

I think the key here is dominating the Magic phase like you seem you want to and I can't stress making sure you take the right Lore. I understand you won't know unless you try them out but really give them another read. The Lore of Metal really should of jumped out there against Brets. Keep working at it, but evolve and adapt. Don't sit there banging your head against the wall because you WILL get fed up. Good Luck.

ScalySkin
17-02-2009, 01:53
Great thread, good to get a few ideas on tactics for my new lizard army. I think a priest on an EoTG will be a great addition to your army, you have a good offensive unit with great abilities and a huge boost to your magic dominance all in one unit. It is expensive, but well worth the points. Has anyone tried to take on your salamanders yet? You have four of them which would be destroying enemy ranks, either your opponents have under-estimated them or you have been playing really well to keep them in firing range, but out of harms way.

blackjack
17-02-2009, 01:58
Thanks Scaly. I have been pretty good about keeping them out of harms way. I find they make half decent Close combatants against war machine crews and flanks of light cav. The nice thing about my list is the sheer number of skirmishers and small units the enemy has to worry about.

Famder, no my opponents don't know my list in advance and we all play each other with basicly the same lists, so thiers are all comers lists just like mine.

blackjack
17-02-2009, 01:59
Here is the list I am planning to play with next weekend. Hopefully I will have a new stegadon by then.

18 Spear Saurus
Standard

18 Spear Saurus
Standard

14 Temple Guard
Musician
Standard
Champion

Slann
Focused Rumination
Focus of Mystery
Bane Head
BSB

Skink Priest
Level 2 Wizard
Plaque of Tepok
Engine of the Gods

4 Teradons

10 skirmish skinks
10 skirmish skinks

10 Rank Skinks
10 Rank Skinks

1 Salamander
1 Salamander

1995pts

Roxors45
17-02-2009, 02:20
Here is the list I am planning to play with next weekend. Hopefully I will have a new stegadon by then.

18 Spear Saurus
Standard

18 Spear Saurus
Standard

14 Temple Guard
Musician
Standard
Champion

Slann
Focused Rumination
Focus of Mystery
Bane Head
BSB

Skink Priest
Level 2 Wizard
Plaque of Tepok
Engine of the Gods

4 Teradons

10 skirmish skinks
10 skirmish skinks

10 Rank Skinks
10 Rank Skinks

1 Salamander
1 Salamander

1995pts


Now your starting to get it Black. The only thing I'd like to see is a unit of cold one cavalry. Your anvils are there, not too sure you need 2 units of saurus AND the temple guard unit. Like you said, you had some trouble getting them into combat. Maybe take a unit out (gets you 228 points) and add a Kroxigor to each ranked skink unit (110 pts) and another unit of 4 terradons. For your slow, albeit tough as nails, unit you just added tons of more maneuverbility in the 4 terradons in addition to flankers and fast cav killer. They can also drop rocks on harder unit, warmachines and single characters. The 2 Krox add a much needed punch into these two units also. You lose a bit in that they cant turn but now you have an answer for those tougher nuts to crack like Knights. Just a couple ideas, but it shows your adapting.

Volker the Mad Fiddler
17-02-2009, 03:01
SNIP

The Plaque of dominion did not do anything in either game. I am thinking of replacing it with 2 scrolls, or trying to find the space for a level 1 skink priest with a diadem for extra anti magic.

Is this actually helpful? The book says the wizard can store 2 of his dice, so, can he store pool dice, or do they have to be ones he generates.

As for the empire games, neither of the lists was at all impressive [what do you need 10 dispel scrolls for with 7 dispel dice, and what is the point of buying all those wizards if you are not going to grab at least the Burning Head ring and/or the Rod of Power if the scrolls are not needed].

Famder
17-02-2009, 03:18
I agree, the second spear saurus unit is unnecessary. Two big blocks is all that's really manageable, especially since you are running them wide to begin with. With the points saved get your Slann Becalming, because you want that extra defense. Maybe buy your skink a scroll just in case. Putting a Krox in each of the rank skink units isn't a bad idea to make flankng more powerful. That's 185 of the 228 spent, for 43 points you could buy some more magic items for your Slann. If you can find 2pts you can get the Cupped Hands, or you could just buy a Cube of Darkness and hope your skink gets Second Sign.

blackjack
19-02-2009, 19:13
Ok on the 27th I have a big test for my Lizards. Malorian, is comming to town and bringing his Best General Tournament VC list.

Lvl 3 Vampire lord *Lahboura* w/ master of the dark arts, summon ghouls, ghoulkin, sword of might, crown of the damned (395)

Vampire w/ master of the black arts, helm of commandment (180)

Vampire w/ master of the black arts, book of arkhan (185)

Necromancer w/ sceptre of noirot (80)

15 Crypt ghouls w/ ghast (128)
15 Crypt ghouls w/ ghast (128)
15 Crypt ghouls w/ ghast (128)
10 Crypt ghouls (80)

Corpse cart w/ balefire (100)
Corpse cart w/ unholy loadstone (100)

6 Cairn wraiths (300)

7 Black knights w/ barding (196)

Total: 2000
PD: 14 + 3 bound
DD: 7

Frankly I don't see how I stand a chance. Even if I manage to get Becalming cog on my Slann, by the time my lizards reach his lines his goul units will be insainly large, his wraiths will run rampant through my lines and zombies will be raised and vanhels flank charging me with WS 6.

My spear blocks will do well against his Ghouls but he will raise far more than I can kill and everything he kills stays dead.

Labora has no armor so bane head/rule of iron is uselss and drain life is a very close range spell. Lizard men have no assasin types that can take her out with any degree of assurance. (jag charm Saurus will get maybe one wound on her on average before she slaughters him).

If anyone has an idea for how to take this list on using Lizards I'm all ears.

Roxors45
19-02-2009, 19:18
Ok on the 27th I have a big test for my Lizards. Malorian, is comming to town and bringing his Best General Tournament VC list.

Lvl 3 Vampire lord *Lahboura* w/ master of the dark arts, summon ghouls, ghoulkin, sword of might, crown of the damned (395)

Vampire w/ master of the black arts, helm of commandment (180)

Vampire w/ master of the black arts, book of arkhan (185)

Necromancer w/ sceptre of noirot (80)

15 Crypt ghouls w/ ghast (128)
15 Crypt ghouls w/ ghast (128)
15 Crypt ghouls w/ ghast (128)
10 Crypt ghouls (80)

Corpse cart w/ balefire (100)
Corpse cart w/ unholy loadstone (100)

6 Cairn wraiths (300)

7 Black knights w/ barding (196)

Total: 2000
PD: 14 + 3 bound
DD: 7

Frankly I don't see how I stand a chance. Even if I manage to get Becalming cog on my Slann, by the time my lizards reach his lines his goul units will be insainly large, his wraiths will run rampant through my lines and zombies will be raised and vanhels flank charging me with WS 6.

If anyone has an idea for how to take this list on using Lizards I'm all ears.

Use cupped hands on you slann. Throw lots of dice (4 or so) at the magic missle spells to kill his ethereals. If you miscast bounce it to his vampire and have her suffer it. Use D3 rerolls spell or 1st heavens spell from your Engine Priest on Salamanders or skinks with poison blowpipes to whittle down units. Use your static CR and standards to win combat. be selective at which spells you dispel. Have Cube of Darkness to end a magic phase. A hero with the Pirahna Blade takes out a Wraith per wound (doubles wounds). Hope some of these help.

Lord of Nonsensical Crap
19-02-2009, 19:24
Use cupped hands on you slann. Throw lots of dice (4 or so) at the magic missle spells to kill his ethereals. If you miscast bounce it to his vampire and have her suffer it. Use D3 rerolls spell or 1st heavens spell from your Engine Priest on Salamanders or skinks with poison blowpipes to whittle down units. Use your static CR and standards to win combat. be selective at which spells you dispel. Have Cube of Darkness to end a magic phase. A hero with the Pirahna Blade takes out a Wraith per wound (doubles wounds). Hope some of these help.

Saurus heroes will be needed, anyway. On their own, the Saurus will stuggle against the Vamp-led Ghouls units.

Actually, now that I think of it, the Plaque of Dominion would probably be a great buy against this army. As long as you keep your Slann in LOS to all of them, the occasional failed stupidity test may slow down sections of his line quite well.

EDIT (Notices you dont particularly like the Plaque). Nevermind.

Malorian
19-02-2009, 19:28
Hey Blackjack, just so me and the rest of the guys are clear, are you going to be changing your list face vamps? And if so will I be able to see the list before the game? (Given that you know my list.)

I have no problem either way, as long as we are doing it the same.

(I'm guessing you are using your old list (or this new one you posted above) and are really just asking people for tactical help, but I want to be sure.)

blackjack
19-02-2009, 19:31
Sadly apart from Labora most of his vamps sit in a bunker behind his lines. They will rarely have los to my TG and will get the general's LD 10 on stupidity regaurdless (his general is already stuipd).

I fear his black knights will destroy my sallies but I will of course try...

blackjack
19-02-2009, 19:33
You got it Malor. I will post my list here before we play. With my current list the game would not last to turn 5.

Malorian
19-02-2009, 19:33
Sounds fair to me :)


Edit: Just so it's not like I filled up your thread will babble, here are some tips:

-Character killers... think about getting one.
-Have a plan for the wraiths
-Spear saurus slaughter ghouls
-Ghouls bounce off of temple guard, but I actually wouldn't take them because I wouldn't bother with a slann. With all my DD and the balefire cart you're better off going defensively with magic. (Priest on engine with diadem and scroll.)
-Salamanders and razordons are a toss up. As you said they will most likely end up as black knight food and their effect on the battle is questionable. However some well placed templates or a nice razordon round could put one of my units in dire trouble just before combat. If you do take them, make sure you have a plan on how to protect them.
-With a magic phase like mine that scroll that has a 50/50 chance to end the magical phase would be nice... if it works. If you take a second priest for magic defence this would be a must, but otherwise I would personally suggest the guarenteed DD of the diadem of work/scroll combo.

Lord of Nonsensical Crap
19-02-2009, 22:58
-Character killers... think about getting one.
-Have a plan for the wraiths
-Spear saurus slaughter ghouls
-Ghouls bounce off of temple guard, but I actually wouldn't take them because I wouldn't bother with a slann. With all my DD and the balefire cart you're better off going defensively with magic. (Priest on engine with diadem and scroll.)
-Salamanders and razordons are a toss up. As you said they will most likely end up as black knight food and their effect on the battle is questionable. However some well placed templates or a nice razordon round could put one of my units in dire trouble just before combat. If you do take them, make sure you have a plan on how to protect them.
-With a magic phase like mine that scroll that has a 50/50 chance to end the magical phase would be nice... if it works. If you take a second priest for magic defence this would be a must, but otherwise I would personally suggest the guarenteed DD of the diadem of work/scroll combo.

Ah, the good old days when you could take fighty characters without sacrificing your DD. Spawning of Tepok, how I miss you...

I'm thinking at least one Scar-Vet with a Piranha Blade, and a second with Sword of Might (for wounding Ghouls on 2s) and optional Bane Head. The Engine might be a good counter to the Wraiths, but seeing as I myself have limited experience with Engines, and even more limited experience vs. Wraiths, I wouldn't know.

A normal Stegadon might be good for holding up the Black Knights, thanks to its stubborness and hard-to-kill nature.

MURPH
20-02-2009, 01:22
Points to consider.

1. I know for a fact that the next 2 tournaments being run in e-town are going to be 2250. Up your points boys.

2. Spear Saurus mash vamps. Played a game the other day (@ 2250) vs VC and took them to town with the spear saurus.

3. The slaan counts as a large target when working out HIS line of sight, seeing him for the plaque of dominion is foolish and impossible if buried in TG.

4. Becalming Cogitation is golden against vampire counts. Invest in a cube of darkness for use after a particularly devastating turn to make sure he cant resurrect those models. Apparently are treated like scrolls so mulitples could be argued to have.

5. The engine of the gods is more the staple to this army than the slaan. Honest to god. Even better against VC. Will torch the army.

6. Lore choice. Lore of light is going to be your best friend. Cleansing flare in addition to the burning gaze will light up the undead so knowing all the spells is imperative. The ItP spell will be a huge asset to you in the game.

7. Character Hunting. Scar vet with a great weapon and charm of the jag will give you both offensive punch as well as a DD draw. A skink chief with the piranha blade on a terradon with could do it as well. Investing heavily on character hunters will double as wraith hunters.

MURPH

Roxors45
22-02-2009, 15:47
Points to consider.
3. The slaan counts as a large target when working out HIS line of sight, seeing him for the plaque of dominion is foolish and impossible if buried in TG.

Just a point MURPH, description of the Plaque of Dominion states "each enemy wizard within 18" that can draw a LOS to the plaque or the unit it is with must take a stupidity test."

So not bad since the big block of TG will be in LOS to a good amount.

MURPH
22-02-2009, 20:19
Ah touche Roxors.

Thank you for that illumination.

MURPH

blackjack
23-02-2009, 04:30
Here is my proposal for fighting Malorian next week.

7 Cold Ones
7 Cold Ones

Skink Priest
Level 2 Wizard
Plaque of Tepok
Engine of the Gods

Skink Priest
Level 2 Wizard
Engine of the Gods
Diadem of Power

Old Blood
Light Armor
Blade of Realities
Enchanted Shield
Carnasaur

10 Rank Skinks
10 Rank Skinks

10 Skirmish Skinks
10 Skirmish Skinks

Total 1993 pts

I have only just completed my first Engine and may have to sub the second one.

selone
23-02-2009, 10:53
I'm sure Malorian will be fine with you subbing it in, afterall its not like you'd be using a piece of cardboard with the word tank written on it is it lol. keep up the reports and it'll be interesting to see how your cavalry performs against VC :)

Malorian
23-02-2009, 13:51
I have only just completed my first Engine and may have to sub the second one.

No worries, I'll just bring one of mine for you to use.

I guess this is what they call the monster list :p It cost you the spear saurus, but it sure will be tough to take out that old blood...

blackjack
23-02-2009, 14:54
I know I lost my spears but if it takes me 3-4 turns to get them into hth with you you can raise too many ghouls to make it worthwhile. With 14pd vs my 8dd you will get 4 raises per turn at 4.5 ghouls per raise (due to your cart) = up to 72 ghouls in 4 turns. (the math hammer behind this is a bit involved but I belive it to be solid.)

the biggest problem will be to stop you from tarpiting my carni and cold ones with zombies.

Of course your infantry has a 16" charge with vanhels and if your wraiths get anywear near any of my units except my old blood they are dead.

I don't think you will have much of a problem.

blackjack
25-02-2009, 04:23
It will not suprise anyone that I have changed my lizzy list to take against malorian. This One I think actually has a shot.

16 Temple Guard, Full Command

Skink Priest
Level 2 Wizard
Engine of the Gods
Diadem of Power

Skink Priest
Level 2 Wizard
Plaque of Tepok
Engine of the Gods

Slaan
Focused Rumination
Focus of Mystery
Becalming Cognition
Bane Head
BSB

Scar vet
Cold One
Piranha Blade
Light Armor
Shield

5 Cold Ones

10 Rank Skinks
10 Rank Skinks
10 Rank Skinks

Total 1999



10 DD + Becalming (should shut his magic down)
12 PD (+ Slann bonuses -2 for Diadem.)

Cold ones > Black guard if they don't go stuiped.

Hero for killing wraiths.

I will be net up in magic, but have damn little to throw against his ghouls.

Kerill
25-02-2009, 05:03
Just a thought but if you can find the points easily for it buy the TG champ a magic weapon for potential wraith killing.

MURPH
25-02-2009, 16:51
Thats a slim, mean army. I think it has a shot.

Its pretty tailored, which is cool as long as that has been agreed upon. other wise I would try to fit in spear saurus somewhere for a all-comers list.

Have fun boyz,

MURPH

blackjack
25-02-2009, 18:45
Oh yes this is tailored. Malorian's army is WAY mean and he is the better general. I need all the help I can get to stand a chance. In an all comers list I would never use so much anti magic, 10dd and Becalming is way too much unless you know your opponent is going with scads of pd.

As it is I give this army 50/50.

Malorian
25-02-2009, 19:00
69% in characters? Tisk tisk ;) (Even my crazy VC one is only 42%)

I have no problem at all with this list. It might have crazy magic, but so do I.

It's going to be a hard rock to crack, but once it cracks a bit it's going to fall apart.(Either that or I'll get smashed :) )

Coram_Boy
25-02-2009, 19:37
I still think that taking master of the dark arts on all of your casters is... painful. 16 Powerdice at 2250, or 2000, isn't it? Still, with such a small force each, this will be a very quick game in the movement phase, which I suppose is a good thing. Also, I guess that the blowpipes from the skinks will do well. How about dropping the musician and giving the champ the biting blade? as someone said, that would mean it's much easier to get rid of his wraiths that way.
EDIT: or the poison item for poisoned attacks too...
EDIT 2: oh 14 dice - didn't realise the necromancer. Should be a cool match.. Please post a BR please!

Malorian
25-02-2009, 19:45
My vamp list has 14 powerdice. The lord doesn't take dark acolyte and thus isn't Lvl 4, and I take a necromancer rather than three vampires.

Lord of Nonsensical Crap
25-02-2009, 23:21
Just a thought but if you can find the points easily for it buy the TG champ a magic weapon for potential wraith killing.

Agreed. A simple Biting Blade should do the trick.

Other than that, the list looks pretty good. Good luck-- we all look forward to the report!

Spirit
25-02-2009, 23:43
why not give your diadem of power to a skink priest?

This way you get 2 more dice on your slann, which means 3 dice because of his bonus?

Seems silly to waste a dice.

blackjack
26-02-2009, 14:05
Spirit,

Ummm My diadem is on a skink priest....

Feefait
03-03-2009, 20:38
So where is the bat rep? I have been looking almost daily? :)

Malorian
03-03-2009, 20:46
Sorry, he wasn't going to write it up because it was already on my vampire thread:

http://warseer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3334992&postcount=458

He decided to use his all comers list instead.

blackjack
04-03-2009, 19:01
I think I have found my stride with new Lizards. Last 6 games have been 2 ties, 2 masacre wins and 2 solid wins for me. One tie was against Malorians best general winning VC army my other tie was against a dwarf army with 2 cannons 2 organ guns and 20 or so hand guns, M4 Saurus simply have a hard time with shooting.

Malorian
04-03-2009, 19:03
Malorian demands more battle reports!!!

Feefait
05-03-2009, 11:14
ahhh, saw that there Malorian, thanks. I like the list he decided to use against you. Thats the beauty of LM now, an all comers list is really an all comers list. They can handle almost anything.

Great job so far Blackjack, and you really have picked right up on LM and are becoming pretty deadly. Thats the beauty of these logs, to see hwo the army and general progress. Nice job.

blackjack
05-03-2009, 15:58
Here is my attempt at a fluffy report.

My list
18 Spear Saurus
Standard

16 Temple Guard Full command
Frog Venom

Slann
Focused Rumination
Focus of Mystery
Becalming Cogitation
Bane Head
BSB

Skink Priest
Level 2 Wizard
Plaque of Tepok
War Drums
Engine of the Gods

Scar vet
Cold One
Phirana Blade
Enchanted Shield

10 skirmish skinks
10 skirmish skinks
10 skirmish skinks

10 Rank Skinks
10 Rank Skinks

1 Salamander
1 Salamander

1999 pts


His list (near as I could tell)

1 Lord of khorn, Barded Horse.
6 chaos knights, mark of khorne, full command

20 WOC of khorne, full command
12 Chosen of Khorne, full command

Wulfric with a block of mauruaders.

2 squads of 6 dogs.

Can't rememeber what else he had.


Again and again the reports came back, across the jungle canopy of men marching through the jungle. No mere fortune hunters but black servants of chaos seeking mystical treasures from the vaults of the old ones.

Zardoz again roused his Saurus warriors to battle.

Upon seeing the enemy host Zardoz quickly determined that half their army was crazed with blood lust and their heavy armor could be made to burn with his mystical energy. Zardoz picked out the enemy general of special attention, molding his bane head into a likeness of the dark lord before him.

The battle went as Zardoz had predicted except for one critical error. A unit of over zealos skinks charged into the flank of a crazed warrior block. The warriors thick armor bounced the puny hand weapons of the skinks and their furious counter attack caused the lizardlings to flee in terror. The pursuing warriors caught the annoying skinks and ran into the rear of an ancient steagdon carrying the skink priest Quixtal. Though the priest was cut down almost immediately the battle with the stegadon stretched for many hours. Finally the great beast lost heart and attempted to unsuccessfully flee.

Zardoz and his temple guard faired much better, using magic to destroy the enemy lord and to roast his retinue of black knights in their own armor. A series of hard battles against elite chosen warriors of chaos and his own dedicated temple guard went on and on inspite of the fact that a contingent of spear saurus had arrived to flank the chosen as well. In the end it was the chosen who took to their heels and the spear saurus whom ran them to ground.

Near the end of the battle another contengent of Chaos men arrived led by a huge man. Not wishing to sacrifice his diminished forces any further Zardoz decided to pull back from this new threat.

Though bloody and long the final victory lay once again with the forces of the Lizardmen.

Malorian
05-03-2009, 16:29
Nice story report. A good read.

How did the salamanders do? I would think they were golden against that large warrior block (5+ to wound but then they only have a 6+ save (if they had shields)).

Briohmar
05-03-2009, 17:26
I'm sure Malorian will be fine with you subbing it in, afterall its not like you'd be using a piece of cardboard with the word tank written on it is it lol. keep up the reports and it'll be interesting to see how your cavalry performs against VC :)

Hey, that was only once, and to be fair the following week, he actually did have a tank to put on the table.

blackjack
05-03-2009, 18:24
Sallies have generally been golden. In that battle however they only got to shoot once. After that everything near was in CC for the entire game. Basicly it was WOC trying to make a stegadon fail it's 6< stubborn and his chosen trying to grind on my TG while my spears attacked his flank for 80% of the game. Given that his WOC where frenzied I did not even want to put my sallies in to CC on thier rear. The number of WS 5 str 4 attacks back would have minced them.

His horses and lord died after 2 magic phases to spirit of the forge and burning iron, wulfric only came on on turn 5 and I just got out of his way as I had the game in hand by that point.