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View Full Version : Calgar worth 250pts?



imweasel
10-01-2009, 14:29
Topic says it all.

For the cost of a land raider I would think this guy would be at least a little bit better (higher toughness).

Discuss.

Radium
10-01-2009, 14:30
Why have a higher T when you have eternal warrior?

And yes, I think he is worth it. If you build an army around him, and play at higher points levels.

Mannimarco
10-01-2009, 14:37
hes one of the few characters my death guard fear....i put him on the same tier as abaddon

captain ceaser
10-01-2009, 15:34
In larger games if you build the army around his strengths then yes he is a monster. In smaller games his points value will hurt you but the same can be said for most SC

Bigbot
10-01-2009, 15:47
He'll lose to Abaddon in combat but he has a better gun, so yeh I'd say easily worg 250 points. GIve him a full unit of tooled up honour guard and your opponent is ****ed in CC

swifty2
10-01-2009, 15:56
From experience i've found I prefer lysander for his ability to survuve in combat, twice now i've found lysander can easily defeat calgar, however calgar is worth taking for his leadership abilities alone, the ability to choose to pass and fail morl echecks can be extremely useful.

buzz631
10-01-2009, 16:07
i would have to say in big points games three full honour gaurds would be a problem to any player thats like 31 space marines weather it be cc or shooting thats got to count. but in smaller games i dont know when you think of a land raider or a bike squad six terminators you need to think hes probably not worth the smaller games.

kultz
10-01-2009, 16:31
He is decent by himself.

His cost is from the army-wide benefit.

The bigger the army, the better.

Orkeosaurus
10-01-2009, 17:09
He doesn't need higher toughness, as he already has great saves and is immune to Instant Death.

Reflex
10-01-2009, 17:29
"Master of the Watch"
"Master of the Fleet"
"Master of the Arsenal"
"Master of the Recruits"
"Ultramarines!"

"Goooo Calgar!"
"By your powers combined, I am Captain Calgar!"

Captain Calgar, he's our hero, gonna take corruption down to zero

He's the ultramarines magnified
And he's fighting on the Space marine side

Captain Calgar, he's our hero, gonna take corruption down to zero

Gonna help him put asunder
Chaos guys who like to loot and plunder

"You'll pay for this Captain Calgar!"

We're the Masters!
You can be one too
'Cause playing Ultramarines is the thing to do!

Looting and polluting is not the way
Hear what Captain Calgar has to say!

"Im Roar Clargar!!! RAOR1!!1!"


Everyone will want to take him now

nagash66
10-01-2009, 17:35
[I]


Everyone will want to take him now



Must get Calgar, Must get Calgar ...Calgar ...get...must

kultz
10-01-2009, 18:00
I approve the above spoof.

Calgar's powerfists long suffered from the inability to survive until hitting.

Now he can.

march10k
10-01-2009, 18:26
For the cost of a land raider I would think this guy would be at least a little bit better (higher toughness).


Would you like some cheese to go with that whine? :rolleyes:

For the love of Christ, he's a ******* undercosted monster. Compare him to Azrael, who is definitely worth his points. He kicks Azzy to hell and back. :wtf:

Even compared to a land raider...it takes one meltagun to pot a land raider. How many wounds does Marneus have? A land raider kills a max of five models a turn... how many could Calgar krump on the charge? Then take into account the impact that he has on models around him that the land raider doesn't, and compare that to the land raider's LOS blocking and transport capabilities. I'd say that MC is far more valuable than a land raider.

Grimtuff
10-01-2009, 19:11
I approve the above spoof.

Calgar's powerfists long suffered from the inability to survive until hitting.

Now he can.

Though he can use his Power Weapon now if he wants to strike in initiative order. ;)

boogle
10-01-2009, 19:54
the fact he is allowed a bonus atttack for having 2 powerfists is also a very good reason for his pooints cost, but as has been said, it's he non-combat abilities that make his a standout character to take in big games.

Oh and Mephiston should be about the same price, as he is more that worth his points for his destructive abilities

Lord Damocles
10-01-2009, 21:00
Well a regular Chapter Master with a pair of Power Fists is 175pts. For the extra 75pts for Calgar you get:
-Titanic Might
-God of War
-Power Weapon
-AP2 Storm Bolter
-+1 W
-Eternal Warrior
-ability to take Armour of Antilochus
-Plot Armour

Not a bad trade of really...

laudarkul
10-01-2009, 21:08
He's worthing the price tag on his head. And if you give him as a retinue some termies:p...

buzz631
10-01-2009, 21:25
so how many attacks does he have on the charge

Mad Larkin UK
10-01-2009, 21:41
He has 6 Attacks on the charge i believe. I think they could have made the fists mastercrafted, as they were in the old rules, and shrike has 2 master crafted lightning claws.

He is really worth his points. The Leadership thing is worth it on its own, since its not even fearless, you choose to pass, so you dont take extra wounds from No Retreat. His bolter isnt bad either, hes an eternal warrior, Has orbital Barrage....great.

Grimtuff
10-01-2009, 21:57
He is really worth his points. The Leadership thing is worth it on its own, since its not even fearless, you choose to pass, so you dont take extra wounds from No Retreat.

Please don't open that can of worms again! :eek:

MajorWesJanson
10-01-2009, 22:56
[QUOTE=Mad Larkin UK;3193116]He has 6 Attacks on the charge i believe. I think they could have made the fists mastercrafted, as they were in the old rules, and shrike has 2 master crafted lightning claws.[QUOTE]

They aren't mastercrafted, but you get to reroll all wounds from his fists and bolter. Far more useful against say a monstrous creature.

ctsteel
10-01-2009, 23:28
So he's basically toting around combination powerfists/lightning claws from the sounds of it, best of both worlds really (double strength, re-rolls to wound).
He also has the orbital bombardment thingy.

I've played against him once so far, and the other benefit he has in his price is acting as a deterrent - you don't want that model getting close enough to charge into your vehicles/squads because he's hard to put down. I put a bit of focus into keeping away from him and shooting the hell out of him with high strength/ap weapons, which allowed some other models nearby to be spared for a while.

1201307
11-01-2009, 00:01
Have a look at Ahriman and then tell me Caglar costs to much.

self biased
11-01-2009, 00:28
he's cheap at twice the price. seriously, who uses named characters in anything other than wacky one-off games or apocalypse games? i used to have a kid in my club that brought Aun'shui to every backyard barbecue, tupperware party, and beer pong (beruit, depending on location) tourney he went to.

perhaps that's the route GW should take with Special Characters: make them crazy good, but prohibitively expensive for use in games of four thousand points or less.

Surgency
11-01-2009, 01:41
I bring Belial to about half my games. And for an elite First Company Captain, he sucks.

Znail
11-01-2009, 03:25
the fact he is allowed a bonus atttack for having 2 powerfists is also a very good reason for his pooints cost, but as has been said, it's he non-combat abilities that make his a standout character to take in big games.

Oh and Mephiston should be about the same price, as he is more that worth his points for his destructive abilities

He doesnt get an additional attack for his two powerfists as he has 'Two diffrent special weapons' (powerfist, powerweapon) , check the last paragraph on close combat weapons. He does have an extra attack on his profile thou, so that makes up for that.

;) Looks like we will soon see a revival of the 'God of War' thread in the rule section, considering its popped up a couple of times now here.

ctsteel
11-01-2009, 03:41
He would actually have three special weapons (2 powerfists and 1 power weapon), so he'd get to choose which combination of two to use for the close combat weapons restrictions, thus being able to use two special weapons of the same type, and getting the +1 attack.

march10k
11-01-2009, 09:38
He has 6 Attacks on the charge i believe. I think they could have made the fists mastercrafted, as they were in the old rules, and shrike has 2 master crafted lightning claws.

Don't forget the stormbolter shots. That really makes 8 possible kills on the charge!



I bring Belial to about half my games. And for an elite First Company Captain, he sucks.

Erm...what does a captain in TDA with twin claws cost? How many special characters get weapon choices? And he makes termies scoring troops? He's cheap for what you get! I'd much rather have him as-is than load him down with expensive one-off gear and abilities.

Surgency
11-01-2009, 11:05
Belial comes out to 130 points, while the captain (equipped with TLC and TDA) comes out to 145.

Belial positives:
Rites of Battle (though this isn't as good as combat tactics, it's still good)
Fearless (could be seen as a negative, with the extra wounds if lost combat thing)
Termies count as scoring
Can choose TLC or TH/SS in lieu of SB/PS

Belial Negatives:
no combat tactics
WS 5
Looses his bolter to get attacks melee attacks

Captain Positives:
Combat tactics
Iron Halo
WS 6
Can choose lots of gear
Can take LC along with an SB
New SS

Captain Negatives:
Not fearless
No special scoring rules

Now, I will grant that the ability to make Terminators scoring units is pretty powerful, but DW termies are fearless, which has it's own drawbacks. I would say that Fearless in 5th ed isn't really that good, since it's extra armor saves that I don't want to have to make. Overall, for 15 points more (only 10 if you're equipped with just the sword) the captain has better WS, and the Iron Halo, improving the Invul save. The captain has more options overall (Belial can get either a sword, or TLC). Now, I'll give you the point that no other special characters can choose gear, but thats not really that big a deal, as they priced him about the same gear wise as regular marine captains. Overall, I'd say the Captain is a better deal, for several reasons, most of which I posted above in his positives.

Now if we really want to start complaining, I'll talk about Azrael, a 225 point model who has the statline (and the gear) of a 150 point captain. Only Azrael has 1 extra wound, and 1 less WS.

Reflex
11-01-2009, 13:38
Here he comes, here comes Speed Calger
He's a demon on wheels
He's a demon and he's gonna be chasing after someone
He's gaining on you so you better look alive
He's busy revving up the powerful warp speed Five
And when the odds are against him and there's daaangerous work to do
You bet your life Speed Calger's gonna see it through

Go Speed Calger
Go Speed Calger
Go Speed Calger go

He's off and flying as he guns the car around the track
He's jamming down the pedal like he's never coming back
Adventure's waiting just aheeeeeeeeaaaaad

Go Speed Calger
Go Speed Calger
Go Speed Calger go!


Come on! nother reason to take Calgar, he's a demon on wheels.....

Kalec
11-01-2009, 19:27
Wait, Belial doesn't have an iron halo? I find that a little hard to believe.

ankara halla
11-01-2009, 19:44
Wait, Belial doesn't have an iron halo? I find that a little hard to believe.

It's not a question of faith... He doesn't have it, end of story.

RichBlake
11-01-2009, 19:46
Come on! nother reason to take Calgar, he's a demon on wheels.....


Really?

Time to send in my Grey Knights to kick his ass.

(Force Weapon that ignores Eternal Warrior FTW)

Rioghan Murchadha
11-01-2009, 21:21
Have a look at Ahriman and then tell me Caglar costs to much.

Heh.. was just going to say. Especially since the FAQ clarified that Ahriman can't fire the same power twice, but can use 3 psychic abilities a turn.. exactly what use that is I don't know...

Calgar on the other hand, is cheaper, and all his abilities are useful damn near all the time.

That, and his model is no longer the poster child for epic fail in the sculpture department.