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Vampiric16
10-01-2009, 15:19
Whenever I read about terminators, they are usually depicted as lumbering yet invulnerable killing machines, with the overall impression of a sledgehammer-like approach to battle. In space hulk, they were the power to the stealer's speed. They hit last, but hit hard.
Now what i want to know is how they would use lightning claws without some reduction to their initiative. They would still have the benefits of the lightning claws, but i would have thought they would be too slow to use them like other units.
I only bring this up because my speedy hormagaunts were cut to ribbons by these steel clawed monsters, who struck simultaneously despite being in heavy cumbersome armour.

ankara halla
10-01-2009, 15:37
After a fashion, you allready said it yourself: game mechanics. Fluff and earlier mechanics have very little to do with the balance GW is trying to achive with their current rules.

blackroyal
10-01-2009, 15:47
I only bring this up because my speedy hormagaunts were cut to ribbons by these steel clawed monsters, who struck simultaneously despite being in heavy cumbersome armour.

If they were speedy, they would be I5. Then you have no problem.

Codsticker
10-01-2009, 15:50
GW should make better use of the fact that statlines have the option of going 1 through 10. That way Hormaguants could be fatser than Terminators without being as fast as a Space Marine Captain and Terminators with lightening claws could be slower than Space Marines without them and yet faster than normal guardsmen.

march10k
10-01-2009, 16:12
I only bring this up because my speedy hormagaunts were cut to ribbons by these steel clawed monsters, who struck simultaneously despite being in heavy cumbersome armour.

...as opposed to being shot to pieces by all of the stormbolters you didn't have to face? Can't have your cake and eat it, too!

I think the cumbersome armor is well represented by their post-combat movement restrictions, although I'd suggest that it would be fair to make all terminators slow and purposeful. I think I remember them at one point not being able to cut down an enemy that broke and ran, for example.

Terminators aren't just "take a bog stock marine and slap him in tactical dreadnaught armor". They are the chapter's best, and they still get extensive training on the suits before they're deployed in them. If anything, I'd suggest that marines with terminator honors being fielded in regular power armor should get +1 initiative, rather than penalizing them when they wear TDA! The other thing to consider is that it's really the power fist, not the armor, that makes "normal" terminators strike last.

Bloodknight
10-01-2009, 16:17
And just for the heck of it: the lightning claw used to be a weapon that was only available on terminator armour. If anything, power armoured marines should suffer drawbacks from using them ;).

MrBigMr
10-01-2009, 16:32
You have a big ass fist with big ass blades that can cut through anything. What sort of kung-fu do you need to use them, just swing that bitch and let it do the rest. Besides, Logan Grimnar (http://warlocke.bizland.com/images/40kimages/logan2.jpg) doesn't look that static and cumbersome to me.

kultz
10-01-2009, 20:42
Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought that Lightning Claws used to have the fluff as having a special way of fighting, with a pair of claws, and lots of defensive parrying.

Something along the lines of the wielder shielding the body with the claws, parrying and clawing whenever opportunity shows.

Firaxin
11-01-2009, 00:30
Terminator Armor DOES NOT make the wearer slow. It's noted that they are slightly slower when it comes to turning from side to side, but they can run as fast forwards and backwards as normal. If anything, terminator armor should give the user HIGHER initiative, as the weapons they use cause normal troopers to strike last due to the weapons' cumbersomeness, but the TA gives them terminators extra strength to weild said weapons. They can move and fire heavy weapons without penalty to speed, for example.

That's why the pre-5th ed codex rumor about terminators' powerfists striking at initiative was so believable.

Koryphaus
11-01-2009, 00:58
Kinda like a whole unit of mini-Abaddons..

Adra
11-01-2009, 01:12
Its because they are as fast as marines in them...freaking super genetic freak fast. nids can shut up in the face of super fast blade hand man.

Inquisitor Engel
11-01-2009, 01:17
Besides, Logan Grimnar (http://warlocke.bizland.com/images/40kimages/logan2.jpg) doesn't look that static and cumbersome to me.

Unfortunately, he's a little small now. ;)

MrBigMr
11-01-2009, 07:05
I can't really see terminators boosting iniative or not limiting their range of motion at all. Ok, even if they do carry their own weight and all that, they're still a big freaking suit. There's a difference swinging an axe and swinging and axe with few hudred pounds of composite alloy and servos around your arms. Sure, you can reach great speeds, but it takes more energy to reach them and sustain, not to forget to stop. There's a difference coming to a halt from full gallop, and coming to a halt from a full gallop with a ton of extra weight. Simple physics.


Unfortunately, he's a little small now. ;)
Well, try to understand, it's cold where he comes from.

ehlijen
11-01-2009, 07:13
It's intertia. They have a harder time reacting to sudden situation changes, such as an enemy suddenly running away. As long as they can plan their movements ahead a half second or so (and space marines are meant to have super brains for that), they're no slower. It's just sudden acceleration/deceleration that makes trouble.

olmsted
11-01-2009, 07:30
well that and the fact that terminators are designed for small close range fighting such as aboard ships, tunnels, and what not with tiny corridors.

march10k
11-01-2009, 08:30
well that and the fact that terminators are designed for small close range fighting such as aboard ships, tunnels, and what not with tiny corridors.

Well...it is a little hard to dodge in a corridor...much better to have armor than agility, I'd say!

librisrouge
21-01-2009, 23:44
Seems to me that the lack of finess really needed to wield lightning claws was the undoing of the gaunts. They ran straight into a until that probably just held their weapons in front of them while running forward. The guants that DIDN'T die were the ones that didn't leap head first into molecule destroying blade gauntlets.