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View Full Version : Banner of Ellyrion on a chariot?!?



Major Defense
29-04-2005, 01:14
The HE 'Banner of Ellyrion' says, "The unit treats difficult ground as open ground for the purposes of movement." So if the BSB takes it and a chariot for a mount then does that chariot no longer have to worry about taking damage from moving through difficult ground?

Bonus question: on a scale of 1 to 10, how wacky is this idea?

BullBuchanan
29-04-2005, 02:10
to be honest its not a very good idea. Your chariot is always only going to move at 9 as they never march so it wont be like you'll be able to charge an enemy from across terrain. Second off your BSB only gets one banner and to waste it on a 15 point banner is just kin of pointless. banner of ellyrion is perfect for Silverhelms or swordmasters as they'll be doing tons of damage on the charge and could benfit from deploying in a wood and charging out. The battle banner would be a much better choice Imo

taer
29-04-2005, 02:13
Erm, I think that the chariot would be safe as all get. I like the idea of the banner on a chariot. Deploy behind a wood, looking like your gonna try and protect your flank with it, and then when the enemy gets close, move through the forest to threaten the rear of thier army. Very nasty.

BullBuchanan
29-04-2005, 02:27
but on a bsb? a waste imo. paying an extra 110 point(70com,25bsb,15 banner) just for that chariot to be able to move through diffcult terrain doesnt seem like a very wise choice. Since he is fielding Eltharion he could almost add another ubnit of swordmasters for that cost, or a unit of silverhelms. Don't forget that Elf commanders arn't that powerful anyway 3 S4 attacks and 2 wounds is about all they have going for them.

it might be decent because he's playing against LZ which likely have skink scouts but think about it. he goes up against 12 skinks say, well those skinks are gonna get 36 shots with poison on him before He even gets to them(2 the first turn while the chariots in range because skinks fire twice when they dont move, and then 1 more each on a stand and shoot) It would be a much better idea to throw that banner on the swordmasters imo as they could better stand up to the skins and get to them more quickly(1 inch faster movement on the march and charge)

then he could put the sorcery banner on the BSB instead, keeping the BSB out of combat but close enough to re-rell breaks. This way he's almost guaranteed that those extra D3 dice are going to be there for the better half of the game.

But again its just my opinion and yesterday was my first outing with my HE, but I figured Id throw my opinion in anyway.

Major Defense
29-04-2005, 03:31
Bull, I think that you're confusing the question in this thread with my other two threads related to my battle this weekend. I didn't even buy a BSB. I'm just trying to think outside of the box here. This question was only about the odd conflict of attributes between a chariot and that banner. Honestly, a chariot with the Battle Banner is a fantastic idea because a character on a chariot has a unit strength of 5 and that's enough to cancel a rank bonus and/or cause a panic test from a flank/rear charge in the second round of a combat.

anarchistica
29-04-2005, 03:46
Strictly speaking, yes this works. If you'd try it against me, i'd laugh and pulverise your chariot/knees. ;)

Star.Scream
29-04-2005, 16:46
>>>>Agreed with anarchistica, as odd as it would be to see; It wouldnt give an atvantage worth the amount of points you are spending on i. If your going to use an Army Standard then it is worth taking a banner that is, at minimum, 50 pts; the only reason someone takes an Army standard generally is so that they can use one of 55pts+ banners because regular Unit Standards cannot carry them.

Festus
29-04-2005, 17:19
Hi

I don't think that this is a bad idea after all:

I agree that this enables the chariot to move through difficult terrain without any risk.

And it is a chariot with a hero on it and a 9" move/ 18" charge, coupled with US of 5 coming probably from the flanks out of some woods, starting to roll down the enemies flanks.

Yes, a good idea IMO.

Greetings
festus

Selsaral
29-04-2005, 18:15
The HE 'Banner of Ellyrion' says, "The unit treats difficult ground as open ground for the purposes of movement." So if the BSB takes it and a chariot for a mount then does that chariot no longer have to worry about taking damage from moving through difficult ground?

Bonus question: on a scale of 1 to 10, how wacky is this idea?

Very evil.

My professional rating places this concept at an 8.7 on the Selsaral Scale of Inherent Wackiness.

taer
01-05-2005, 21:39
It is a shame that High elf characters don't have the option to ride in chariots, now isn't it?

Festus
01-05-2005, 22:05
Oh, they don't? Do they?

Sylass
01-05-2005, 22:07
It is a shame that High elf characters don't have the option to ride in chariots, now isn't it?
Actually, they do have the option to buy a chariot as a mount...and not only the normal fighting hero and Lord charcters, Mages too!


"Any Lord or Hero may ride in a chariot chosen as normal from the Special units section of the army list at the costs shown there. He will displace one of the chariot's crew."

(Page 25, right side of the page, "Characters' Steeds")

taer
02-05-2005, 00:31
Wow, that is a stupid place to put the option. Could anyone tell me why they wouldn't be in the character's description like every other army book?

anarchistica
02-05-2005, 02:19
Because the HE book was only playtested inside GW, and they presume alot of things.

Moi
02-05-2005, 06:40
Maybe if they tested it outside GW, they would have remarked the lack of scythed wheels on High Elf chariots? Are they the only race not using scythed wheels on their chariots? Even the Vampire Counts Black Coach can have the equivalent of scythed wheels... strange thing, that is! ;-)

T10
02-05-2005, 16:21
The HE 'Banner of Ellyrion' says, "The unit treats difficult ground as open ground for the purposes of movement." So if the BSB takes it and a chariot for a mount then does that chariot no longer have to worry about taking damage from moving through difficult ground?

Bonus question: on a scale of 1 to 10, how wacky is this idea?

It is indeed valid.

What I don't get is why people immediately slag on the idea as being dumb and a waste of points. I seem to recall one fellow even threatening physical violence.

I personally think it is an interesting idea. At best you will be able to hide the chariot and BattleStandard in a wood until needed. With a bit of magic you can move the chariot to support a defending unit by sending him in for a flank charge:
- counter any lapping round
- force panic test
- impact hits
- negate ranks
- +1 Combat Resolution for flank attack
- 3d6" pursuit move

What's not to like?

-T10

Festus
02-05-2005, 21:44
exactly ^^

I think it is a great idea still...

Festus

anarchistica
02-05-2005, 22:35
Maybe if they tested it outside GW, they would have remarked the lack of scythed wheels on High Elf chariots? Are they the only race not using scythed wheels on their chariots? Even the Vampire Counts Black Coach can have the equivalent of scythed wheels... strange thing, that is! ;-)
The best thing is that they could have scythed wheels in 5th so technically every HE player had to remove them from their chariots to comply with WYSIWYG. :rolleyes:

And let's not start about the HE and DE books here, that's been done to beyond the death.

Moi
03-05-2005, 05:05
And let's not start about the HE and DE books here, that's been done to beyond the death.

Okay, I'll remain calm, here! ;)

Another advantage to have a banner in a chariot would be the +1 combat resolution from it, also. Don't you forget that one!

GranFarfar
08-05-2005, 21:03
The HE 'Banner of Ellyrion' says, "The unit treats difficult ground as open ground for the purposes of movement." So if the BSB takes it and a chariot for a mount then does that chariot no longer have to worry about taking damage from moving through difficult ground?

Bonus question: on a scale of 1 to 10, how wacky is this idea?


I must first point out that I am indeed very thrilled about the idea. If it works it opens up alot of tactical options.

But as I always tends to see the downside in everything I must point out one thing.

Since it says "The unit treats difficult ground as open ground for the purposes of movement", shouldn´t this mean that the chariot indeed is free to move at full speed through difficult terrain, but that it at the same time still suffers hits?

That is atleast how I interprent the rule. I admit that it wouldn´t hurt for my part to check the BRB.

Zeb
09-05-2005, 10:59
The problem with that banner is that it's "difficoult terrain" even tough few use it, there are things that are very defficoult terain (even mentioned in the BRB). I always takes the time before the battle to discouss the terrain (espesially vs HE). There is nothing as funny as a HE using the Banner of Ellyrion the wrong way...
Also, it's only for movment, not LOS which is something that needs to be considered.

But a chariot with T4 and 3 wounds (IIRC) and a 5+ save is not something you would want to put a BSB in without tooling him up in some other way.
It's a one use only thing, with the banner, but not something to use regulary.

Star.Scream, I and many with me would never tool a BSB with a 55+pt banner, you want a BSB for the rerolls... Espesially in an army which is outnumbered by your enemy, where every unit is important...
I wrote an article about it in the Oracle.