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Grimstonefire
12-01-2009, 19:27
Seeing as these are 'fantasy rules' i'm assuming this is the right section.

I present to you my second version of the Chaos Dwarf armybook (10.4mb).

It's a complete list with:

Bestiary section
Armoury
Lore of Hashut
Army List
Special characters

As its over the file size for pdf attachments I'll have to direct you over to where it's loaded:

http://www.freewebs.com/chaosdwarfsourcebook/version2new.htm

If anyone gets a chance to look through I would really appreciate it. ;)

ERRATA:
I meant to add to the Slavers rule that fleeing Chaingang units and Slaves do not cause panic tests in Chaos Dwarf units.

Earthshaker:
Some obvious mistakes here. Use as a cannon with the Earth Shake effect and the smoke mortar misfire table until I can re-write the bit about the stone thrower misfire result.

High Loremaster
13-01-2009, 01:52
Hey, I like this list! It is extremely characterful and interesting, and I can tell you put a lot of effort into it. Hell, if I ever complete my Dwarf army, I'll probably try using this list in a friendly game. Very well done, and very dynamic!

Things I like:
-The Lore of Hashut, and the petrification of Sorcerers. Awesome.
-The variety of troop choices. Chaingangs are very interesting.
-The special rules as a whole, for both the army and the units. They're very fluffy!
-The war machines! So many, so interesting, so cool! Very innovative. Some are completely new (The Soul Reaper in particular is badass), while others are similar to existing war machines with some twists.
-There are so many original items that I like. The Brass Homunculus and the Horned Staff are two of my favorites. The former has all sorts of interesting uses, while the latter is a nice, powerful item with enough of a drawback to justify its cost.

Possible improvements:
-Priests of Hashut seem too similar to Warrior Priests, at least in name. Calling them "War Priests" and saying they use "Prayers" really reinforces this similarity.
-Add an item that allows Sorcerers to choose spells (if there isn't one already, I could have missed it). To me, the Lore of Hashut, while fluffy and original, is very specialized, and you could easily get random spells that will be of limited use against whatever foe you are facing. For example, Ashen Cloud could be useful against units that have models with many attacks, but against rank and file troops, you're pretty much casting a 9+ spell to cut either their WS or BS in half. Usually, this is going to result in taking their WS or BS to 2 at the minimum, which isn't much if you're casting it on standard WS 3/BS 3 troops. You know what? I'd reduce the casting cost of Ashen Cloud in general.

Ward of Flames is another specialized spell. Very useful, keep it as it is, but it's just another reason to allow CDs to choose spells with some sort of item.

There are a few balance issues, but with a player-made list, these are bound to exist. The ones I can see through my first couple readings are as follows:
-Stone Armor might be a bit too protective for what it costs, though I could just be too used to my fragile High Elves.
-The Dark Mace of Death is too powerful: D3 automatic wounds with no saves of any kind is pretty intense, even for a one-use-only item.
-The Infernal Distillery. If I'm reading it correctly, it essentially makes the bearer immune to the effects of all miscasts. 50 points is too cheap for such an item - you wouldn't see a Level 4 without it. There's a High Elf magic item that makes you immune to your FIRST miscast only and costs 40 points. Even Teclis' item only makes him immune to the first miscast of each turn.
-Icon of Hashut is underpowered for a Stubborn unit to take it, considering they could just take the War Banner or the Doom Banner and get the same result for 40 fewer points.
-The Doom Banner. Does it exist so that two units can get a +1 combat resolution banner? That's fine, if so.
-Chaotic Disruption seems overpriced.
-Slaves (the war machine upgrade) may be iffy. You're getting a considerably potent missile AND combat shield. Maybe randomize between the Slaves and the crew, instead of making them absorb ALL missile hits?

Overall, it's great, and you definitely have some awesome ideas. Keep working on it!

EDIT: Ok, I missed where it said the Dark Mace of Death was one-use-only, but I still feel it's a bit too powerful. I also misunderstood how the Soul Reaper works. In my new understanding, it is powerful, but not overly so. Very good!

Uukrul
13-01-2009, 02:40
Very nice book. I really like alot of the ideas. Chain gang is a great idea and plays off the background too. I was sort of sad to see there was no slaver unit. Someone made a CD Mordheim list with slavers and a slave cart, I always like that idea for CDs.

I think that Stone armor is fine, nothing overpowered about it, sure 3+ is a nice save but the only unit that can take it cant have shields so its not like there going to have a 1+ or anything. Heroes can get a real nice save but nothing as bad as a khorne lord on a juggernaut with an enchanted shield.

I think I'm going to try out a list using this book the next friendly game I have.

Grimstonefire
13-01-2009, 10:37
That's a lot of feedback already!

I will look into all the points you raised.

I haven't worked on the lore of hashut for a long time, that was sort of inherited from the last version, but I can see there are a few problems with it.

I'm glad you like the warmachines. I bounced ideas around all over the place and selected what I thought was the best of the bunch. Hopefully people will see that there is a common theme with the units and warmachines in this list.

My intention was to create a solid counter attacking force that plays in a disruptive, almost random way (allowing for offensive or defensive lists). With any luck this is unique in terms of a playing style in warhammer. WoC and DoC are just plain hard hitting, little reliance on counter attacking and with the DoC winning through attrition (IMO). Sure they both have random elements, but essentially they are reliable at being hard. BoC play in a similar way, but without the use of warmachines. Dwarfs are 100% reliable, O&G 100% unreliable (;)), so neither is exactly the same. The skaven are similar in being disruptive with the use of warmachines, but again they are much more unreliable and rely on screening units.

So the warmachines I included generally are either designed to be overtly disruptive (smoke mortar, bombard), occasionally very powerful (soul reaper) or just generally useful (earthshaker, hellcannon). Including the rocketeers they all have unusual misfire tables.

Some of the units were also designed to be disruptive; the berserkers, rocketeers and mardak are obvious examples. The brotherhood pack quite a punch, and would take some beating. I wanted the immortals to be hard to wound, so 3+ seems perfect IMO. I agree it may be underpriced for characters.

The core units presented a real challenge, I wanted to try and balance the list so it's semi elite and not reliant on cheap meat shields, but it has the potential to play better with them. On face value some of the choices are similar to dwarfs (warriors, thunderers and rangers v warriors, blunderbussers and slave hunters), but I think they are sufficiently different.

If anyone gets to try anything in the list I'd love to know. I'm always open to suggestions and ideas!

Edit:
Note my errata above on the earthshaker.

Predictably I will need to do a 1.1 version soon with some changes.

Kalec
13-01-2009, 22:33
Actually, this belongs on the rules development forum. PM a mod and they will probably move it for you.

Grimstonefire
05-02-2009, 20:43
If anyone was interested I've loaded the fluff that went with this list:

http://www.freewebs.com/chaosdwarfsourcebook/version2new.htm

Background Only 14.5mb

I will eventually compress it and load it all together, but in the mean time...

I've also assembled a list of rules errata:

EQUIPMENT/ UPGRADES:
Increase price of stone armour for lord & hero.

Drop stacking of magic resistance on palanquin.

UNITS/ CHARACTERS
Change Blunderbuss to Move OR shoot. Blunderbusser should be 15 pts/ model with Light Armour and option for shield. Change Blunderbussers so Commander gets BS4 instead of 2A. 5pts/ model

Add to the Slavers rule that fleeing Chaingang units and Slaves do not cause panic tests in Chaos Dwarf units.

Change Priests of Hashut names?


WARMACHINES:
Earthshaker: Some obvious mistakes here. Use as a cannon with the Earth Shake effect and the smoke mortar misfire table until I can re-write the bit about the stone thrower misfire result. Change misfire table to include stone thrower bit.

Any Chaos Dwarf Crew should be in the front rank in combat, with Slaves ranked behind.

Change Chaotic Disruption to a 5+ ward save against non-magical attacks (i.e. it cannot be used against spells and magic items): 50pts

MAGIC ITEMS:
Change Infernal Distillery to be immune to your FIRST miscast only: 40 pts

Change Icon of Hashut to only make a unit stubborn (no CR bonus)

Drop doom banner or war banner.

MAGIC:
Add an item that allows Sorcerers to choose spells.

Reduce the casting cost of Ashen Cloud.

Ward of Flames should read 'in the following close combat phase'.

Does the Whirlwind of Darkness prayer protect a unit or hinder it? I see that is badly phrased they are -1 to hit FROM shooting and close combat attacks.