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fnc6884
13-01-2009, 22:07
Hi,
I'm building my first Chaos Warriors Army and I am curious on how most people equip their Marauder Horsemen..... Throwing Axes or Throwing spears? and how effective has each been for harassing the enemy.

I'd love to find the guy/girl who has played both and prefers one or the other and why.

Thanks for the time.

Avian
13-01-2009, 22:27
Well, neither. I've tried throwing axes because I'd like to get a bit of shooting into the list, but they ended up being horrible in combat (and if I didn't want Horsemen in combat, I'd take Warhounds instead for a third of the cost) with just hand weapons. Meanwhile taking both flails (my favourite) and throwing axes ended up just a little too pricy for my taste.
As an attempt at a compromise, my third unit (when I get one) will have both types of spears.

My gut feeling is that any sort of ranged attack on Horsemen is something you do for the fun of it, though, not because you are hoping to achieve anything. :( I like to give my goblin wolf riders short bows, but they are only 1 pt each for a weapon with a 16" range, which normally means that you have at least something semi-useful to shoot at within range.

stonehorse
13-01-2009, 22:33
With Throwing Axes and being fast Cavlary they are quite good at taking out enemy Fast Cavlary. Remember that Throwing Axes don't suffer -1 for moving and have no long range modifier.

In letter turns they can be used to take out Warmachine crew.

Makaber
13-01-2009, 22:36
I believe in giving them some sort of missile weapon. The reasoning is, dropping a single model off a regiment will often negate a rank bonus, giving you a significant advantage in combat. As the horsemen are the only ranged weapons you'll have access to, they'll have to do, but fortunately their great speed can get them to where that single casualty they're likely to inflict can do the most damage.

As for which option to take, I don't know. Even though the difference will only be 5 points for a unit typically, the throwing axes seem a bit expensive. I suspect javelins will do the job most of the time.


With Throwing Axes and being fast Cavlary they are quite good at taking out enemy Fast Cavlary. Remember that Throwing Axes don't suffer -1 for moving and have no long range modifier.

In letter turns they can be used to take out Warmachine crew.

Against war machine crew in particular, you'll be a lot better off simply charging in. The axes will hit the machine most of the time anyway, and even dwarves will be hard pressed to stand up against flails.

Wulfrik
13-01-2009, 22:41
I have found the added strength of the ax is generally more effective than the added range of the spear.

Marauder Horseman are great for march blocking, and while doing so the added harassing fire of 5 Str 4 shots can be just the thing to get under my opponents skin, whittle that flanking unit below unit strength 5, and negate the light armor possibly worn by war machine crews.

Last game, two remaining Marauder Horseman were able to just get into range of a fleeing Heirophant. Tzeentch smiled on me and I rolled two 5's to hit... my opponent was less than pleased. Liche Priest go bye-bye and a disastrous set of crumble checks left him in a poor position indeed.

If you are really, really good with fast cav, you can "go big" and equip them with flails, light armor, and throwing axes (plus musician, a must for fast cav) and have them make their points back every time. At that point they are a harassing unit that suddenly can hit a flank hard and cause losses... but I don't recommend kitting them out that way until you've completely got the hang of them, or they won't be able to recoup their points.

bork da basher
13-01-2009, 22:41
ive tried throwing axes and frankly they are far too circumstantial to be worth it, handy once in a while but otherwise i wouldnt bother. flails are IMO the only thing they need be equipped with. S5 hits for a fast cav unit means they can reliably take on small units and actually inflict damage when used in their flanking role, not just remove rank bonus. slap a mark of khorne on them and they hit harder than most heavy cav units all for less than 100pts.

javelins are even more pointless.

Deacon Bane
13-01-2009, 23:02
I use Th. Axes, always. After several games vs WE, riding around in circles, pinging me. I added Th.Axes and that was the answer, now my opponent has to be a bit more careful, and I have managed a few victories. i use my Horsemen for harassment and the odd timely flank charge, MOS and Th Axes do nicely.

fnc6884
13-01-2009, 23:18
Cool thanks guys for the quick responses, you should check out my "slug" army in the army lists too...and see what you think.

I also play empire (for the past 6-7 years) and my favorite units are my pistoliers...I love'em and they always make their points back.

So I'm basically trying to find the chaos version of them.

fnc6884
13-01-2009, 23:21
What about spears w/ throwing spears? cost the same as just throwing axes and flails.

Gives them more versatility but they become a master of none.

Cambion Daystar
19-01-2009, 07:55
What about spears w/ throwing spears? cost the same as just throwing axes and flails.

Gives them more versatility but they become a master of none.

I don't see the reason of picking spears above flails.

Flails always give +2S vs +1S on the charge. and that for only a single point more.
Same for throwing axes vs throwing spears.
Fast cav is usually in a position to compensate for the bit extra range of the spears. i prefer the +1 S.

Whitehorn
19-01-2009, 08:59
I take 5 with spears and throwing axes with a musician.

Quite ofthen they simply die, but for the few points they cost, it's worth taking them just for the occasional gem.

They shot down a Wood Elf wizard once.

They destroyed a fleeing unit on several occasions.

They prevent my frenzied chariots being baited.

The hold+contest board quarters.

With such little shooting in WoC armies, I think you should always take throw weapons. The points cost is negligible, the advantage of deterring/killing a stray wizard is priceless :)

Condottiere
19-01-2009, 09:13
Fast cavalry with missile weapons are meant to annoy their opponent, luring them away from the main fight. If they happen to seriously damage a unit, that's a bonus.

Cambion Daystar
19-01-2009, 09:53
But why the throwing spears instead of throwing axeS?

Draxas
19-01-2009, 10:14
Everywhere I see WoC discussed, people always come up with the lack of shooting, flyers and skirmishers as their main weakness, saying that their foot troops can be easily march blocked and such. Marauder horsemen with throwing axes seem like they could kill some stuff with them while being mobile, should be more than enough to keep enemies from march blocking you. I don't have the armybook or anything but just from what I've read about it on here I'd take multiple units of these guys to cover the weaknesses of the list and give me control over the battlefield.

Condottiere
19-01-2009, 10:22
But why the throwing spears instead of throwing axeS?
Javelins? They have 8" range which means that with fast cavalry and the first turn you could shoot the enemy in your shooting phase on that initial turn.

Whitehorn
19-01-2009, 10:32
But why the throwing spears instead of throwing axeS?

Preference of application and budget.

If one was always better, there wouldn't be a choice.

Whitehorn
19-01-2009, 10:38
Javelins? They have 8" range which means that with fast cavalry and the first turn you could shoot the enemy in your shooting phase on that initial turn.

Technically you can't do that. If you deploy exactly 24 inches apart, they are not within range. If you want to shoot on your first turn, take a Hellcannon.

Condottiere
19-01-2009, 10:42
Technically, if the units are exactly 24" apart, fast cavalry moves straight 16", so they should be exactly 8" opposite that enemy unit, which is within the range of a javelin.

Lordmonkey
19-01-2009, 10:44
But you can only fire up to and within that range of 8", not over it.

If you are at least 8" away after moving, and this is also your maximum range, then you can't hit the target. If you could, you would have shot further than 8".

Condottiere
19-01-2009, 10:48
Technically, you're not, because you're exactly 8" away, not over, not under, but exactly.

Leth Shyish'phak
19-01-2009, 10:51
You must deploy more than 24" away from enemy models.

Condottiere
19-01-2009, 11:09
That's interesting, I'm going to have to have a talk with my DE and Dwarven colleagues regarding their RXBs and muskets.

However, the question was why javelins, and the answer would be the increased range; if you can't use it on the first turn, then throwing axes would be the better buy, since I don't see that 2" for fast cavalry making any significant difference.

grhino
20-01-2009, 11:55
I reckon that the throwing axes are a more reliable choice, since you'll probably use it against light cav or light armed infantry to take out ranks... that S4 gives you both more chance to harm your target and decreases their probably already low armour save. Definately worth the extra costs: you're paying it because you want results (eg. dead enemies) otherwise paying extra is near useless. Like the versitality idea of spears & throwing spears though!

MarcoPollo
20-01-2009, 20:05
I think it also depends upon the mark and the purpose you wish your fast cav to perform.

With MoK, flails is the only real way to use them. No need to be throwing stuff as you will be lead around by the nose and charging will cause them not to be able to throw anything.

With MoN or MoT you may have more survivability and so you can get around the flanks without taking too much damage. So ranged attacks may be worth it.

With MoS or MoU, you are keeping them cheap so keep them cheap. No unnecessary upgrades.