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march10k
14-01-2009, 08:26
I noticed in a "don't leave home without it" thread that the same empire unit came up time and again...and no other empire unit was mentioned. What's so great about pistoliers? Obviously, if I'm asking, I'm not an empire player, and don't have the army book, but I'm thinking hard about making empire my next army. Glancing at the units in the online store, the pistoliers didn't jump out at me. What am I missing?

Condottiere
14-01-2009, 09:00
Probably the same reason DE DR are so popular, cheap mobile firepower.

Draxas
14-01-2009, 09:11
Well, I don't have the Empire armybook but from just looking at the GW website, they look like one of the best fast cavalry. They each have a brace of pistols and are fast cavalry, so 5 of them can march 16" and then unload 10 str 4 AP shots, with no move or range penalty, just the multi-shot penalty to hit. Sure the range on pistols is not stellar at 8", but you have the movement to get there while remaining out of line of sight so you can't get charged, and you are march blocking at the same time. Sounds like a nice deal, especially if you are letting the enemy come to you, use these guys to march block and harass the enemy as they move up.

Cambion Daystar
14-01-2009, 09:13
What is not to like about them?
Cheap mobile firepower,
Warmachine hunters,
marchblocking,

and this edition they can even have a musician

march10k
14-01-2009, 09:26
Hmmm...I think I begin to understand...are they better for the points than outriders? From what I've read, outriders can't move and shoot, but they get more shots at higher BS?

SuperArchMegalon
14-01-2009, 09:40
Outriders are *the* fast cavalry with the most shooting power in Warhammer. Unfortunately as you said they cannot move and shoot. They aren't as versatile, and also more expensive. They do what pistoliers can't, though, and that's take out tough units. Different players have different preferences between these two units.

Condottiere
14-01-2009, 10:13
If you can, combine the two (however, sometimes you have other priorities).

march10k
14-01-2009, 10:47
I'll definitely be making a priest-heavy infantry-heavy army. I'm thinking one min unit of kaniggits (Hunters of Sigmar certainly fit hte bill!), one unit of pistoliers, a cannon (two at 2k), one unit of handgunners (with a detachment or two of spears looted from my circa 1998 brets) to guard the cannon, and the rest are flagellants and state troops...led by preists, of course. I'm glad to hear that the choice between pistoliers and outriders isn't cut and dried.

Rubicon
14-01-2009, 11:26
Pistoliers do what all fast cavalry does, they annoy, harras, march block and (sometimes) flank your enemy.

Outriders are better at shooting, better at killing big units. I use them as super-handgunners that can get outta the way quickly when they need to, rather than as fast cavalry.

Cambion Daystar
14-01-2009, 13:17
Outriders are better at shooting, better at killing big units. I use them as super-handgunners that can get outta the way quickly when they need to, rather than as fast cavalry.

True, an advantage they have is a smaller frontage, better AS and 360 LOS. That means you have more shots on a smaller frontage.

Marwynn
15-01-2009, 07:57
Also if you upgrade the Pistoliers with a Unit Champion (an Outrider) he can get a Repeater Pistol. It's a helluva thing to have, if you have the points for it.

Cambion Daystar
15-01-2009, 10:49
I find that too expensive. For about the same points you get an extra pistolier.

Irisado
15-01-2009, 10:54
Pistoliers are marvellous. They are fast, have that invaluable field of vision, and are great for march blocking.

Another useful tactic is to combine them with heavy cavalry, such as Inner Circle Knights, and use them to charge the flank of a unit, while the less manoeuvrable Knights charge said unit head on.

Marwynn
15-01-2009, 17:57
I find that too expensive. For about the same points you get an extra pistolier.

It's typically run with 6 Pistoliers inc. Champion, so the 7th Pistolier is more of a liability then.

And you don't need IC Knights to do such charges, the plain ol' Nillas can do that just fine.

Jericho
15-01-2009, 18:26
You obviously have to be careful that the enemy won't get any free CR by killing those Pistoliers. They are a much softer target than the Knights.

Anyway I agree that Pistoliers should be a no-brainer for Empire generals. They are really good at harassing, and remember that pistols can *always* stand and shoot regardless of range and whatnot. If pistols could still be used in combat for S4 -2 combat attacks, then they might possibly be enough to make me want to play Empire again.

Kahadras
15-01-2009, 19:40
I rated Pistoliers back when I played Empire. Just use them to harass enemy units. Don't let them get into combat and keep them out of the way of enemy shooting/magic. My opponant quickly figured out how dangerous these guys were and would go to great lengths to take them out at the earliest oppertunity. The synergy between pistols and fast cavalry makes them a solid choice IMHO. The main problem is the fact that they have to compete against the other Empire special choices.

Kahadras

Condottiere
15-01-2009, 20:29
Good advice that. Keep an eye on the LOS of missile units.

Irisado
15-01-2009, 20:31
You obviously have to be careful that the enemy won't get any free CR by killing those Pistoliers. They are a much softer target than the Knights.

A fair point, which is why you have to choose which units you charge with a certain amount of care, but normally this simultaneous charge is enough to break a lot of enemy formations.

Gorthor21
16-01-2009, 04:11
I'll tell you, the only thing that pistoliers have ever truthfully done for me is spend the first few turns doing fairly well, but by turn three they're usually running away or slaughtered.

Im in consideration of taking the fast cavalry all out of my army all together and switching over to a defensive cannon line with blocks of swordsmen.

Genrazn
16-01-2009, 04:17
Great skink killers :(

Lord Dan
16-01-2009, 05:16
Say, with the new specification about pistols conferring an additional +1 attack in CC, do units with a brace of pistols have an additional attack?

...so do pistoliers have 2 attacks?

Cambion Daystar
16-01-2009, 06:24
Mounted units do not not get a bonus for 2 handweapons

Condottiere
16-01-2009, 09:50
No, but S&S always with two pistols compensates somewhat.

Cambion Daystar
16-01-2009, 10:55
Not really. Single shot: 5+ to hit, multiple shot: 6+ to hit. Comes down to about the same.

Condottiere
16-01-2009, 11:05
Short range 4, move 5, multi 6. Situational.

Though it's interesting if you fancy your chances with more 5+ or 6s.

march10k
16-01-2009, 11:29
I can't remember which it is (probably movement), but one of the penalties doesn't apply. Two shots on the move from pistoliers: 5+ to hit.

Cambion Daystar
16-01-2009, 11:33
I was talking about the stand and shoot.
That penaly does apply, correct?
That would make the stand and shoot 6+ to hit.

Cambion Daystar
16-01-2009, 11:34
I can't remember which it is (probably movement), but one of the penalties doesn't apply. Two shots on the move from pistoliers: 5+ to hit.

Correct, no penalty for movement and range.

Templar_Victorious
17-01-2009, 08:10
Don't forget penalty for being charged.
Though one could be rules laywering and saying the rule only affect bows...
Though I believe that is not RAI.