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Feefait
16-01-2009, 05:12
As the new books do not have an option of replacing any rare slots (or otherwise) with a DoW unit my interpretation is they are not allowd in the armies. I think DoW says they can be taken by all armies, though I do not know the actual wording, but this is from a previous edition where the books all stated DoW as an option in the rare sections. I would say playing DoW as a stand alone army, fine, using them in another army with out a spot they can take I would say no.

Thoughts?

Lord Dan
16-01-2009, 05:21
The DOW rules say they can be taken by all armies. GW stopped printing note of them in the individual armybooks because they felt it was redundant.

Even though this was discussed and covered a while ago (back when the DOW entries started dissapearing from army books), what do you say to the armies that have yet to have a 7th ed. update, and still have the option for DOW in the rare slots of their books?

For instance, would a Wood Elf army (which has DOW specifically listed as a rare slot) be able to take DOW while their Dark Elf opponent (whose new army book does not specify) not be able to?

Condottiere
16-01-2009, 08:58
Currently, DoW unit can still be taken by other lists, even if they do not list them.

There are PDFs that list what slots a DoW unit occupy and who can take which regiment.

Griefbringer
16-01-2009, 08:59
As the new books do not have an option of replacing any rare slots (or otherwise) with a DoW unit my interpretation is they are not allowd in the armies. I think DoW says they can be taken by all armies, though I do not know the actual wording, but this is from a previous edition where the books all stated DoW as an option in the rare sections.

By this logic, very few armies would have been able to take DoW when their 6th edition rules were released, since there were only two army books out, the rest using Ravening Hordes lists which did not make mention of the DoW.

Anyway, if the rules allow you to do something, then you can do it.

DoW army list explicitely allows for DoW to be fielded in various other armies, and lists pretty clear and explicit rules for it. There is no logical need for any extra mention of this in the army book, like there is no need to mention that the rules in the BRB also apply when playing army X.

Feefait
16-01-2009, 20:33
All valid arguments. I would say that any updated armies not be allowed to take them while those not updated could. Call it a bone for not having the update stick thrown at you. I don't think you can use the argument ravening hordes or any niche/specific list should be used as an example. I would not say thye should be able to use DoW either, as they are defintely a specific army with specific benefits and limitations.
In the 6th edition skaven book it says that weapons teams cannot be targetted like single characters if within a certain distance of parent unit. However as 7th edition did away with that rule then skaven lost it for weapons teams as well. You always have to follow the most recent listing for the rules. Their is no DoW 7th edition and no listing for their options in the new books, which is the crux of my stance here. Could dark elves take ogres, as theya re listed as DoW, or does that apply only to the DoW list as being universally available?

And I do not buy that they are not repeated in the new books because GW wants ot save redundancy. They will repeat ad nauseum to make their points, and the absence of DoW being listed is telling.

Condottiere
16-01-2009, 20:49
GW may have been ambivalent about continuing support for DoW going into BRB7, but they did make a good point, that it's easier to control assignment of various units to various armies from a single document.

You'll note that not every RoR was assigned a rare slot, six of them could use a special slot.

Da_Greeniest
16-01-2009, 20:54
I know for Orcs and Goblins, Ruglud's Armored Orcs could be used as a Special Choice instead of a Rare.

EvC
17-01-2009, 02:38
And I do not buy that they are not repeated in the new books because GW wants ot save redundancy. They will repeat ad nauseum to make their points, and the absence of DoW being listed is telling.

Look, it's entirely up to you and your gaming group what you do or do not allow in your games. All special characters are 100% legal, but that doesn't stop many tournaments or groups from banning them. Dogs of War have an allowance to be used in ANY army out there other than Bretonnians. Whether you and your gaming group decides this is good enough is entirely up to you. If you say NO that's fine, but if you meet another player who says YES then are you really going to tell him that his Dark Elf army with Mengil Manhide's Manflayers is out of order and tell him you won't play him?

It's your loss if you wouldn't play him.

As is the usual case... just be reasonable and use self-restraint and you'll be fine. I'd be rpetty disgusted if I turned up for a game against the new Lizardmen and found my opponent had selected two Dogs of War Cannons for his rare slots (As someone has indeed done in the battle reports section), and I might try and convince him to make a slightly more entertaining use of his rare slots. But a Warriors of Chaos army with some Norse Marauders, or a Dark Elf army with Mengil? You'd have to have quite a stick up your rear to object to playing against those.

Condottiere
17-01-2009, 05:53
Just to reiterate, not all DoW units can be used for all armies. Dwarves don't employ any elves (however, I suspect an Elven commander wouldn't have any objection to using Dwarves as Stormtroopers, if the aesthetics just weren't so wrong).