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Disturbing_Clown
18-01-2009, 10:29
Do you think it it is fluffy for chaos titans to be crazed? The only "official" datasheet for one I've seen is the Banelord, but I'm not sure if the crazed rules are more appropriate in that case since it's Khornite. Would it be fair to balance the crazed drawback with daemonic possession?

Llothlian
18-01-2009, 10:47
No, and no.

Chaos Dreadnoughts are crazed because they are unwillingly trapped inside a living death. Titans are part of the Dark Mechanicus, who willingly pilot the God Engines. Why would they shoot at their allies?

Askari
18-01-2009, 10:51
The fact that Titans have a crew, as opposed to one Marine "volunteered" into a Dreadnought, means that it's much more unlikely to perform insane acts also. Princeps are immensely proud of their machine, and would not likely risk their position by obliterating his allied Chaos Lord's forces.

Llothlian
18-01-2009, 10:55
Princeps are immensely proud of their machine, and would not likely risk their position by obliterating his allied Chaos Lord's forces.

Unless they could get away with it. :D

Shipmonkey
18-01-2009, 11:31
The fact that Titans have a crew,

Not always, at least for Chaos. They are often controlled by daemons that have either possessed the crew or the Machine Spirit.

Ben
18-01-2009, 11:37
With no reference in fluff to this happening, and with Titans run by the Dark Mechanicus who have a purpose/plan, I would say no.

vman
18-01-2009, 11:46
i think the rule sucks imo

for such stunning forgeworld models, its a shame they have such a **** rule

EVIL INC
18-01-2009, 13:22
Not always, at least for Chaos. They are often controlled by daemons that have either possessed the crew or the Machine Spirit.
Those are seperate titans and would require a new model or extensive converting. The Banelord is an example of such a titan. It became crazed because of the khorne daemon controlling it. It actedas a khorne daemon would. A tzeentch or nurgle daemon controlled titan would act differently.
As already said, the chaos titans (aside from daemon controlled ones as they are not part of thisequation) are controlledby the dark mech. They are not forced against thier will to controll these war machines and actually WANT to controll them. They would not want to lose thier positions through such acts of insubordination. Unless of course they were changing thier allegiances to a new lord and the old one was "going out with a bang":evilgrin:.

Llothlian
18-01-2009, 13:37
But really, if you've got on one hand a Chaos Marine in power armour as the Lord, and on the other hand a Warlord, who is really the Lord here?

Chaos Lord: Oi, Warlord, bugger off over there and shoot those Orks!
Preceps: Hey, who do you think you're talking to? *FREEEEEEEEEEM* (the noise TSOALR Lasers make)

PondaNagura
18-01-2009, 15:56
actually, since the machine spirits of each titan has a personality that reflects the class' character (even loyalist ones), i can kind of see a warhound becoming more feral as the mind of its princeps becomes more melded with the machine after millennia of combat, lusting for the hunt, traveling in berserker packs on the battlefields.

Tringsh
18-01-2009, 18:56
i think the rule sucks imo

for such stunning forgeworld models, its a shame they have such a **** rule

I agree, it's put me right off getting a Dread.

Vaktathi
18-01-2009, 19:15
Do you think it it is fluffy for chaos titans to be crazed? The only "official" datasheet for one I've seen is the Banelord, but I'm not sure if the crazed rules are more appropriate in that case since it's Khornite. Would it be fair to balance the crazed drawback with daemonic possession?

No, it wouldn't really be fluffy, I don't think it's even really all that fluffy for dreads, but Titan's would either be daemonically possessed (so I think that could be a possibility) or crewed by willing dark adepts, not imprisoning a wrecked body.

Furthermore, the "Crazed" rule is an extremely poor one (ever wonder why you don't ever see Chaos dreads?) and isn't really something that should have been bothered with in the first place.

MrBigMr
18-01-2009, 19:15
I think the crazy ass dread should only happen when they're possessed, not just a normal thread. There are sane Chaos dreads in the fluff too. Not every single one of them is a 10 000 year old possessed corpse in a tin can. If loyalist dread pilots can die and get replaced, why not Chaos ones? Stuff like that.

ctsteel
18-01-2009, 20:05
Perhaps they could have made it a die roll at the start of the game - on a 1-3 the dread has the crazed rule as normal (roll each turn etc), 4-6 and it is still new enough to be 'sane' and operates normally for the entire game.

djinn8
18-01-2009, 20:15
I think I've only read one BL book that had a crazy dread in it, but at least five that had sane ones, many of which held positions of athority within their legion. Why GW insists of dreads been crazy is beyond me, but at least there are ways to minimise the damage dreads causes should they attack their own troops. How would you minimise damage from a Titan though? Put a dread or two near it?

Toe Cutter
18-01-2009, 20:15
I don't see the huge beef with the crazed rule personally. Is it the same as the crazed rule in the 3.5 codex (haven't played chaos since then so I haven't got the new codex)? Occasionally it would fire frenzy one of your own units but meh, hardly the end of the world and it was positively delightful when it blood frenzied entire squads of stuff into squishy red pulp.

Disturbing_Clown
18-01-2009, 20:56
Toe Cutter: unfortunately the new chaos dread is nerfed. The close combat results no longer give you any bonus attacks, we lost a lot of the upgrades, the list goes on and on...

Vaktathi
18-01-2009, 21:08
I don't see the huge beef with the crazed rule personally. Is it the same as the crazed rule in the 3.5 codex (haven't played chaos since then so I haven't got the new codex)? Occasionally it would fire frenzy one of your own units but meh, hardly the end of the world and it was positively delightful when it blood frenzied entire squads of stuff into squishy red pulp.

It is not the same. It doesn't get double attacks when it goes CC crazy, and now it attacks the nearest *unit*, whereas before it attacked the nearest enemy unit first if it goes "fire frenzy", and if none were in range then it would attack a friendly unit under the old rules. Also, the rule states that it *pivots to face* the nearest unit, meaning if you have it in front of another unit, it turns it's back to the enemy showing its AV10 rear armor, and then unloads its weapons twice into your unit, even if an enemy unit was in range.

zendral
19-01-2009, 01:21
For the banelord...yes its fine. And if you read it, it's different from the dread...slightly better. Half the fire frenzy shots go to freindly, the other half still hits the enemy (rather than all shots hitting freindly). I know I know...d6 fleet of foot for banelord is sorta whoopdy-doo.

Otherwise, most daemon titan engines are not so prone to freindly fire. Sure it's acceptable for one to step on some slaves/traitor guardsmen, or kill some freindlies near an enemy target when caught up in a destructive frenzy....but not enuff to warrant the banelord crazed rule.

yeah....I don't think anyone will argue with the stupidity of the current chaos dread.

Toe Cutter
19-01-2009, 01:55
No blood frenzy? How rude!

Odd choice of things to nerf bat. Since when were dreadnoughts the uber nasty unit of death? Daemon princes and daemon bombs were some of the more unpleasant things (read easily exploitable things) in the old codex. Now all I hear about is double lash daemon princes so they can't have done a particularly good job of fixing the princes. Glad I don't play chaos under the new codex in short.

Craud
19-01-2009, 02:33
And crazed dreads don't even make that much sense from a fluff perspective anymore since, as of the new Codex, most CSM are meant to be recent converts rather than guys who've been knocking around since the Heresy. Being mad after 10,000 years is fair enough, but apparently they now go insane the second they switch sides. Huh?

Brucopeloso
19-01-2009, 07:27
Yup, I wish a lot of unpleasant things to the guy that wrote the current crazed rule........ I mean nothing terminal, it's just a game after all but a really big case of piles or something like that! :mad:

The guy completely screwed chaos dreadnoughts and they weren't even that good in 3.5 to begin with! :wtf:

Dark Primus
19-01-2009, 11:13
Why even put the crazed rule in it anyway? As long as Titans, Dreadnaugths and other war machines etc has that rule I am not going to use them. I don't want to take the chance one of my own cheats me out of my victory. The risks are too great. Especially for me, I often roll 1's when it is most important.
Not gonna allow that to happen.
Does anyone even use a Chaos Dreadnaugth anymore in their armies?

Brucopeloso
19-01-2009, 12:31
I use a dreadnought as I have two of the blighters and I love the model.

Most of the time the dread doesn't do anything notable (good or bad), in rare occasions it does very well e.g. by charging something that cannot hit back, munching a vehicle or insta killing a character....... in the only game I used two one fire frenzied into a predator destroying it and presenting the rear to the other dreadnought who promptly fire frenzied and destroyed it..... :wtf:

You can use a chaos dreadnought if you like the model but you must be very careful placement wise and must be prepared to se no return whatsoever for your points.

A chaos titan with the crazed rule? Mhhhh, maybe not a good idea.

kaimarion
19-01-2009, 13:54
The crazed rule ruined the dreadnought so imagine sticking that rule on a model that costs upwards of 800pts :(. I do wish the option for using a dreadclaw was included in CSM codex as it would help make the dred a bit more useful.

09Project
19-01-2009, 14:02
I wish the fire frenzy rule was instead of fire at the closest unit read instead..

'Fires twice at the nearest enemy unit, if none of its weapons are in range it instead fires at the nearest friendly squad, if again no weapons are in range the dreadnought fires randomly and cannot move this phase'.


But anyway that a side ish point, as for crazed titans, doesn't fit the fluff for me.

TheOverlord
19-01-2009, 14:06
Only if the Crazed rule included giving your titan double it's normal amount of attacks and +1 to your apocalyptic roll when it explodes, I'd play that any day :D