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Deacon Bane
18-01-2009, 13:30
I have seen on some threads, that HE are doing well at some big tournaments. I shelved mine for 7th edition and went to WOC, but seeing as they are a better army than i originally thought. I was wondering what type of lists are these successfull players using? Any links would help or if you have seen them in action let me know what the lists were.

Condottiere
18-01-2009, 13:48
Star Dragon, BSB/World Dragon, Dragon Princes, Lion Chariot, LSG, Scroll Caddy, RBT, GE.

WhiteKnight
18-01-2009, 15:10
Yeah. Thats the new build and works good. I just don't like being outnumbered all the time but sometimes you have to take that risk and do what you can with it, which can be the end of your opponent with that dragon.

wamphyri101
18-01-2009, 20:09
Ok...Can we try and take high elves away form dragons and "full mages".
Im a HE player and im starting to get tired of pretty much every list i see relying on Either a stardragon list with the same unit of dragon princes with bsb/banner of the world dragon or a list with 4 mages in it.

Please guys lets show the other armys that we dont need the same old same old to win

Makarion
18-01-2009, 20:12
Most people aren't experienced or daring enough to win with infantry builds, I think. I shudder to think how they'd fare with a non-tier 1 army. Not that they'd try, mind.

Condottiere
18-01-2009, 22:15
The other variant centered around the Book of Hoeth, but that seems to be not that powerful since the new army books came out.

Deacon Bane
18-01-2009, 22:50
How about using Teclis with a couple of lv2 mages 2 RBT, 2 Eagles and an Infantry line.

GodlessM
18-01-2009, 22:56
I faced a High Elf army with two Dragons before and it was the most horrible army to face ever.

Harwammer
18-01-2009, 23:24
I beat a start dragon list with my beastmen list (post split) *flexes*

I'd like to see some more non-dragon builds.

I'd like to see what a bunch of High Elves can do, not their silly dragon friends or just a couple of uber mages.

Condottiere
18-01-2009, 23:57
I think it's possible that you'll see that on a themed list, but a WAAC will take the hardest hitting units just to overcome the newer armies, which is basically a star dragon or Teclis (if permitted) based forces.

Harwammer
19-01-2009, 00:02
But surely cherry picking the hardest hitting units does not make for the hardest hitting list, or indeed the list best at taking/conserving VPs?

The whole being greater than the sum of its parts and all that...

WhiteKnight
19-01-2009, 00:05
If you play aginst VC and Tzeentch daemons, you absolutely HAVE to run lots of magic. High Elves can do good in any of the 3 phases, but sometimes infantry lists are too spread out to do too many things at once. Its like having a point guard in basketball to be center too. So if you run infantry, you either run combat heavy (sword masters) balanced, (white lions), or defensive (phoenix guard). Balanced is an easier way to go, but it is usually backed up by an archmage and 2 mages with 1 combat character. I've been trying to find a way to make up for being outnumbered and the only solution that work for me are dragons, more spearmen, swordmasters, and white lions while backed up by bolt throwers and an eagle to march block.

We should all try the same list and see what armies it works on the best. Preferrably a balanced list but not so we can try to dominate all 3 phases. Lets make it only so we can destroy in 2 phases, and weaken in 1.

Pacha
19-01-2009, 12:38
I faced a High Elf army with two Dragons before and it was the most horrible army to face ever.

Its pretty horrific. I've played a couple of 4000pt games vs a 2 star dragon and teclis army and funnily enough I didn't do so well :cries:

WhiteKnight
19-01-2009, 15:43
Alright, who thinks that 3 dragons is cheesy in 4k? I ran a 3 star dragon list (1800 points!!!) and it was amazing. I had them backed up by dragon princes and some chariots while 4 archers units did some shooting. That was A LOT of dead vampires.

Condottiere
19-01-2009, 18:10
3 Dragons is about the maximum you can take at 4K, while leaving enough slots open for the Mage backups to keep those babies safe from unfriendly spellcasters.

Caine Mangakahia
19-01-2009, 18:20
Iv'seen a Teclis army with Spearmen and an eagle or two. Eagles are rediculous at redirecting charges, and while they hold you up Teclis will be busy burning your @ss and your magic items.

W0lf
19-01-2009, 18:48
My 2K for a proxed tourny me and 5 mates played was thus;

Teclis

19 spearmen, fc (his unit)
10 archers

21 masters
fc, sorcery

14 masters
mus, champ

14 masters
mus, champ

3 bolt throwers

great eagle.

Was pretty hard i went 4-1. (lost to thorek gunline...)

fubukii
20-01-2009, 06:05
teclis used to be a extremely potent build for hes, now with the introduction of the ring of hotek, a match against dark elves can be disastrous for the most powerful elf mage :(

W0lf
20-01-2009, 10:12
Yes but ofc the ring of hotek is perfectly balanced and fair. you just need to find a way around it

/typical druchii player post.

sulla
20-01-2009, 10:45
Yes but ofc the ring of hotek is perfectly balanced and fair. you just need to find a way around it

/typical druchii player post.

? As opposed to irresistable force on all doubles and a BSB with the battle banner in dragon princes? Every army has their no brainers. If you don't like them, agree beforehand with your opponent to limit thos things from ther list...just don't complain when they neuter your list too.

wamphyri101
20-01-2009, 11:24
This is what im trying atm. Trying to go for something all around for torniments etc but none of this cheesy 4 mages or i have to win with a dragon tot.

Arch Mage: (225) (Magic defense,support)
Annulian Crystal (40): 265pts (crystal gives me +1 dd -1pd for them. so 5dd with a +1)

Noble: (85)
Halberd (4) Dragon Armour (6) Enchanted shield (10) Reaver Bow (40)
Great Eagle (50): 195pts (take down warmachines, skirmishers, fast cav. Also handy for extra flank charge etc as its unit str will be 5)

Battle Standard Andrial: (110)
Great weapon (8) Armour of Calador (25): 143pts (bsb to support the white lions)

Noble: (85)
Great weapon (8) Dragon Armour (6) Shield (2): 101pts (extra killing power for spears, keep AM safe)

Total Characters: 704pts

10 Archers: 110pts (anti fastcav)

18 Spearmen: Full command (25) War banner (20): 207pts (bodyguard)

Total Core: 317pts

7 Sword masters of Hoeth (105)
Blade Lord (12) :117pts (suicide elves)

7 Sword masters of Hoeth (105)
Blade Lord (12) :117pts (suicide elves)

14 White Lions of Chrace (210)
Full command (30) Banner of the Lion (25): 265pts (anti armour, solid defence)

Lion Chariot: 140pts (counter attack units or gainst slow armys can run up flank with the noble on eagle)

Lion Chariot: 140pts

Total Special: 779pts

Bolt thrower: 100pts

Bolt thrower: 100pts

Total Rare: 200pts

Army total: 2000pts

Alx_152
20-01-2009, 11:38
Your infantry units are a bit small....

Just my $0.02

W0lf
20-01-2009, 13:42
? As opposed to irresistable force on all doubles and a BSB with the battle banner in dragon princes? Every army has their no brainers. If you don't like them, agree beforehand with your opponent to limit thos things from ther list...just don't complain when they neuter your list too.

Teclis 475 pts
BSB with battle banner = ~180 pts.

Hero and lord slot.

Ring = 25 pts.

Small and subtle diffrence? Oh and im a Dark elf player, i used that list in a proxy tourny for a laugh. My dark elves havnt had problems beating high elves yet.

wamphyri101
20-01-2009, 14:51
Alx_152, yup they are to small. But i have tried large blocks of specials and the enermy either avoids them like the plague (wasting over 320 points) or just throws everything at them and munching them
Small units have worked well for me so far (even against a skaven gun/warlock line)

Dragon Prince of Caledor
20-01-2009, 18:22
Most people aren't experienced or daring enough to win with infantry builds, I think. I shudder to think how they'd fare with a non-tier 1 army. Not that they'd try, mind.

In contrast I am not an experienced player but I have had enough success with an allfighting and magic army. Except when I play the real vets at my local gw one of whom is the second best player in the country! great sports though i enjoyed getting owned by the guy.

I had a list the other day with
2*L2
Lord on horse with star lance and vambaces of defense

10 archers
15 spearmen

15 swordmasters
15 PG
15 WL

5 Dragon Princes
7 silver helms

i havent bothered including the magic items but my list was casty enough if you know what i mean with 5power dice +D3 and 2 scrolls and a mage that picks his spells

I dont particularily enjoy the rediculous tourney lists that have like 1 unit that walks around the board and steams everything down. I have taken some of the advice from the vets but refuse to make the unkillable dragon prince unit...

Elves All The Way
25-01-2009, 05:41
I for one love spearmen, for a high elven army it can be pretty big when you use them, the best thing about spearmen is that their point cost and combat ability is in the middle, say for example your versing goblins or scavenor skeletons, they would outnumber the spearmen but the spearmens combat ability would wipe them clean but to those who says what "what about T4 guys with high armour save?" well in that case then the spearmen will out number them and wipe them clean again. now with that being said there are a few exceptions, dwarves for example are just too well armoured and cheap for this theory.

darkelves99
25-01-2009, 06:01
having 4 bolt throwers always makes for a good occasion,dragon princes and swordmasters are good too.

English 2000
26-01-2009, 04:39
Most people aren't experienced or daring enough to win with infantry builds, I think. I shudder to think how they'd fare with a non-tier 1 army. Not that they'd try, mind.

********. Even with the old book before ASF I ran infantry heavy HE and did quite well thank you very much.

Can you define your idea of tier 1, because I can take pretty much any army in the game and do well with it after a short period of time. The only ones I'm not sure how to use effectively are ogres - but I'm sure given a bit of practice I could manage just fine with them too.

Edit - apparently Boll-ocks is a bad word on here and gets replaced with stars? Weird.....

English 2000
26-01-2009, 04:41
If you play aginst VC and Tzeentch daemons, you absolutely HAVE to run lots of magic.

Not even remotely true. My usual setup at 2k is 2 nobles and 2 level 2 mages. It does just fine against magic heavy armies.

High Elves do NOT need Dragons and Uber-mages to be dangerous.

Elves All The Way
26-01-2009, 06:11
on a different subject what would you think about the talisman of saphery armour of caledor and either foe bane or white sword on a prince? you don't see many high elve character hunters but that build do wonders

Desert Rain
26-01-2009, 17:30
I would go for the Whit Sword over the Foe Bane, but other than that I think it can be quite good.

Condottiere
26-01-2009, 17:54
The Foebane might be more useful against monsters.

Mireadur
26-01-2009, 18:21
If you take Foe bane also take a mount.

thrawn
26-01-2009, 22:02
I don't know why more people don't try that void magic item (forgot what it's called. all magic items in 6" don't work and mages can't cast spells) then stick him on a star dragon. run him into anything, vampire lord, chaos lord, dwarf lord, any uber unit, he'll just win everytime.

Condottiere
26-01-2009, 22:11
Nullstone; that's because there's a good chance while perched on that Dragon and having next to no protection, that the Prince won't survive very long.

Marwynn
26-01-2009, 22:24
It's simple: The Nullstone costs 100 points. There are better means of protecting your Prince on a Star Dragon than that.

Secondly, Star Dragon Princes can still lose to CR. They can still be shot, and or killed in other fantastic ways.

Dragon Prince of Caledor
26-01-2009, 22:52
Not even remotely true. My usual setup at 2k is 2 nobles and 2 level 2 mages. It does just fine against magic heavy armies.

High Elves do NOT need Dragons and Uber-mages to be dangerous.

Even if they are both scroll caddies there is no way in ____ that a list with such little magic resistance could survive a VC list with like 15 PD or a slann with a skink priest riding around on barney (stegadon). Especially when the Slann ruins all your sixs!

It seems that all the power lists are uber magic. But I agree with the above with the whole everyone has a dragon in their list these days. I seldomly use a dragon but that is partially because he isnt painted yet!:evilgrin: The "power lists" of bolt throwers and star dragons are insulting to my Asur who appreciate the troops of Chrace, The Phoenix Guard, the Elites of Saphery etc etc.

therisnosaurus
27-01-2009, 00:01
you can manage fine, actually. 2 level 2's, one with the annulian crystal, one with the staff of sorcery gives you 5 dispel dice, +2 to all dispel attempts and -1 enemy power dice. Against all but the most obscene of magic lists, this equates to a 80% shut down rate in my experience, and against 1 level 4 or 2 level 2's, the enemy will struggle to get anything off. Particular fun against tombkings...

Honestly, if you "really" look at the power lists at the moment (VC, daemons, dark elves) you'll note that they're a) all quite squishy (t3, low saves on many troops) b) have little shooting (dark elves can, but the power lists usually don't) c) are not succeptible to psychology and are quite good at dishing out fear and terror causers, d) usually lack static combat rez

So, if you make a list that can minimise the amount of enemy that get to strike, minimise your own vulnerability to psychology and maximise your ability to deal with uberunits and have a solid magic defense and units capable of maximising their combat resolution, at the expense of worrying about shooting or insane levels of magic, you're probably on a winner.

To that end- Lion chariots are probably the pick of the month, with their ASF murdering impact hits, cause fear, and very small footprint, and work fantastically against units with few ranks.

my list of choice at the moment would be a BSB (flat, perhaps with banner of sorcery), a noble, 2 level 2's with aforementioned arcane items, 3 lion chariots, 3 units of 7 white lions with musicians, two units of 21 seaguard with full command, a couple of eagles and a couple of bolt throwers. Very good for taking on daemons, dark elves and vampires .