PDA

View Full Version : Sportsmanship



Dragon Prince of Caledor
19-01-2009, 14:01
My buddies and I have become sick of player each other ;) So we have been going to gw and playing people. I played the second best player in canada. Im relatively new and inexperienced but it was awesome fun getting my rear end kicked! If I had have had one or two decent rolls I may have even salvaged honour! Anyways the guy i played against was a great sport and really fun to play, my friend played a guy with a gnarly list (another high elf guy :) ) with two dragons and three bolt throwers. Anyways the guy was a lame sport to say the least. He was so incredibly anal and jumpy it was annoying to see/hear. Earlier I watched a game between a guy who is a good player and sport vs another guy (a third high elf player! using Teclis!) he punched the tabled because Teclis failed a fear test... He was whining about his bad rolls for literally like an hour afterwards i looked at the guy i was playing and said what the heck. What kinds of people do you play with? Any strange encounters be they good or bad? I dont want to toot my own horn but I have been pegged a good winner and a good loser. my friend Dave (who is on this site but i dont know his name on the site) he is a great sport he loses often and is always good about and when he wins he is great as well.

blackjack
19-01-2009, 14:12
Alot of people in this hobby are here because they have low EQ (Emotional Quotient).

Playing WFB is a way of pretending you have power and thus, theoretically control, when you start to lose you lose that illusion of control. It can be quite devistating.

Of course not all, or even most, players are like that but it is very common to see around most fanboy based activities.

maze ironheart
19-01-2009, 14:26
I find it's more fun playing someone who dose not care if they win or loose as it is annoying when people who loose whinne and swear and hit the table.

Malorian
19-01-2009, 14:32
Alot of people in this hobby are here because they have low EQ (Emotional Quotient).

Now there's a real downer...

Basically you called us all losers :cries:

(Most people wouldn't cry over something they read on the internet, but I have a low EQ :p )

EvC
19-01-2009, 15:10
Only if you're a Teclis-using loser Malorian :p

ekalb
19-01-2009, 15:57
sportsmanship is tricky. I like to think of myself as a fun guy to play and all my regular buddies agree, but in last tourny I played in I am pretty sure the first undead guy I played did not like me. He was never all that friendly to begin with and then when his Vamp Lord miscast I yelled out loud "Oh please DIE!" on accident and I kid you not, I had to dodge the daggers that shot out of his eyes.

Condottiere
19-01-2009, 17:21
I guess the most cliched advice I can post is, behave how you would like the other player to behave.

The SkaerKrow
19-01-2009, 17:26
I guess the most cliched advice I can post is, behave how you would like the other player to behave.Really good advice, though. I think that, if most people followed that mantra, the hobby would be much better off for it.

Frankly
19-01-2009, 17:32
sportsmanship is tricky.

No its not, just be nice.

I really like the game and most people I get to play against, we've something in common and something to talk about so its great common ground. So generally I've found the most players are at least agreeable on some level when playing with their little metal men.

So far I've played WHFB in 5 different countries and I have to say that nerds are nerds no matter what country they're in.:D

Briohmar
19-01-2009, 17:34
I have fun regardless, and even have a couple of sportsman awards, but even I have my bad days. In Germany, I went in to play one Saturday, and as soon as I walked in, the red shirts pointed to this one guy, which meant I was to play him. He proceeded to unpack three units of red armored Chaos knights, and two units of hounds (his entire list.) I slaughtered him to a man, and enjoyed every smug minute of it, especially knowing that he had an undivided BSB with Banner of the gods in his main unit of Khorne knights with the banner of never lose frenzy. I saved that unit til last, and still beat it, even with his little slip up (directly cheating.) Not only I, but everyone in the store rubbed his nose in it that he had lost to a pink and purple army.

wingedserpant
19-01-2009, 17:55
Really good advice, though. I think that, if most people followed that mantra, the hobby would be much better off for it.

Or every second game will have its players stomping about like depressed monkey sumo wrestlers.

Ethlorien
19-01-2009, 17:59
I think it's just the mentality of that person. They'll whine if they have to go to jail without passing Go, if they end up being The Old Maid in cards, if they have to slide down the longest Snake in Snakes and ladders even. In any game they play that turns sour they whine.

Some people out there only have a good time if they are winning; and more then that even - they only have a good time if they know you are losing. As stated above, it's about a false sense of control and attitude and sense of superiority even. "If I win, I must be a better person then you!" And if they are losing, no matter how you act or what you say, they are feeling that you believe you are superior to them and are bitter for it.

Me, I love playing - I have fun no matter the outcome. Just be friendly.

Orkeosaurus
19-01-2009, 18:12
the longest Snake in chutes and ladders
:p




Yeah, some people invest too much in their army being the greatest.

Ethlorien
19-01-2009, 18:27
Damn you, Orkeosaurus! Do you just follow me around, waiting for me to slip up!? :)

Orkeosaurus
19-01-2009, 18:49
Just a coincidence, it seems. :D

The Old Scholar
19-01-2009, 18:54
I'm a crap sportsman...I play High Elves...
Think there is a correlation... :)

blackjack
19-01-2009, 19:03
I guess the most cliched advice I can post is, behave how you would like the other player to behave.'

It's easy to say this but some times it is really not easy to do. If we all had perfect control of our emotions we would be wearing pointy ears and going to star trek conventions.

Seriously, good sportsmanship is a virtue but also having sympathy and forberance for others who are a depressed is a virtue as well. Being overly critical of others behavior is also a form of poor sportsmanship.

blackjack
19-01-2009, 19:09
As stated above, it's about a false sense of control and attitude and sense of superiority even. "If I win, I must be a better person then you!" And if they are losing, no matter how you act or what you say, they are feeling that you believe you are superior to them and are bitter for it.


I disagree, most gamers tantrums are not about you the other player, they are about deep seated insecurities in the one throwing the tantrum. Don't take it personally. The reason you cant say anything to make it better for them is because it's not about you.

Ethlorien
19-01-2009, 19:13
I disagree, most gamers tantrums are not about you the other player, they are about deep seated insecurities in the one throwing the tantrum. Don't take it personally. The reason you cant say anything to make it better for them is because it's not about you.

True enough, I can see that being the issue.

Duke Georgal
19-01-2009, 21:06
Not warhammer, but I had a bad experience this past weekend.

We were playing Axis & Allies, and the Soviet player had an awful turn because his dice went very sour on him.

I thought it was funny, bad luck and all, but he threatened to leave the game, we had to BEG him to come back and finish, and he swore he would never play A&A again!

He ruined what up to then was a fun day for four other people.

Bad sportsmanship is never excusable. Let the dice decide the outcome, and just play your game.

Fire Harte
19-01-2009, 21:11
Alot of people in this hobby are here because they have low EQ (Emotional Quotient).

:eyebrows:

I've encountered two in my three years of gaming out of hundreds of people.

----------------------------------

For me sportsmanship is everything. I play toy sldiers for fun and fun it shall remain.

blackjack
19-01-2009, 21:37
I've been gaming for over 20 years and I can, most of the time, find two in gaming room of 3 people! (One of which would be me). I belive I have meet mabye a half dozen really high EQ people in gaming in the last 20 years.

I know two great guys, well regaurded people, older guys, who throw dice when they are not doing well. (and I mean wing them, so your ducking the ricochet). I know people who will bad mouth your list every time you beat them no matter what kind of list you are playing. I know people who pound tables, swear and refuse to play other people over precived slights.

You know what, these are actually all really good people. Those who really have a high EQ will also have some sympathy for people who don't.

Condottiere
19-01-2009, 22:06
I find that sportsmanship increases with some people in inverse proportion to their current score.

havoc626
19-01-2009, 22:12
Whenever I have bad luck, I usually let out a 'Damn' under my breath, but I don't get annoyed or angry at my opponent/ their army. If I have a lot of bad luck, after the first couple of bad rolls, I just sigh, cover my eyes, shake my head and laugh. If I have awful luck, I start backing my opponent. Not doing bad choices and such, but more making it better for them, like laughing when my Skaven Warlord gets fried by a misfire of my Warplightning Cannon. If I'm winning, sure I'm happy, but I don't rub my opponent's face in it.

I just put a smile on my face, mostly because I find it fun when the luck of the dice are completely against me for a turn, and it costs me heaps. This might actually be why I like Skaven, the fact they don't really care. But the main thing that everyone seems to forget when they get angry with an opponent is that it is a game.

For anyone who does some of the really bad stuff (like chucking their models around the room when they die or throwing dice full pelt), this really isn't a game for you. It is a social game and if you're not good with losing to someone, I say don't bother, because if you keep up your ways of sore losing, no one will want to play you. Also remember that in a lot of the games that are played, someone will win and someone will lose. It is an obvious thing to point out, but think that if your opponent doesn't chuck a hissy fit when they lose horribly, why do you when you only lose by a small amount?

Clegane
21-01-2009, 12:43
Alot of people in this hobby are here because they have low EQ (Emotional Quotient).

Playing WFB is a way of pretending you have power and thus, theoretically control, when you start to lose you lose that illusion of control. It can be quite devistating.

Of course not all, or even most, players are like that but it is very common to see around most fanboy based activities.

I would contend that WFB is by no means an exclusive club when it comes to displays of poor sportsmanship. This sort of attitude is not that uncommon in ANY sort of competitive event. Athletics, cooking contests, reality show competitions, golf, pro-wrestling, beauty pageants, MMO PvP, American Idol, football hooliganism, the list is endless.

Any time you engage in an activity in which you dedicate time, money, training, energy, and spirit there is the potential to become emotionally overwrought when you have a moment where it all seems to be for naught.

I've never been to a tournament where at least one person didn't have an outburst of some sort. It doesn't necessarily mean that they're socially inept or a deplorable person. Most people have bad days. And ALL people have bad moments.

You make it sound as though every guy who gets snarky or profane when they have an entire game of below-average dice rolls is some sort of emotional cripple that dishonors the hobby, himself, his employer, and seven generations of his ancestors.

Besides which, it isn't as if most people set out to an event with the intention of being the biggest cocksmith in the room. Most of the time, they don't even realize that they're behaving in a socially unacceptable manner. Not because they're degenerate heathens who spend their days in caves, but because competitive contests can be an emotional experience and it is often easy to get caught up in that to some degree.

Fanfan
21-01-2009, 13:50
When I play, I tend to get carried away, but I think it's in a good way. I don't get angry when I lose or overly rubbish when I win, I just live the game with a passion. Yes, I may get loud when I save 4 wounds on 6s, shouting "Praise Sigmar!!" and things like that, but I don't think this is rude or bad sportsmanship. I see it as playing the game intensely and having fun doing so. It's like bringing the role playing in the tabletop game.

theunwantedbeing
21-01-2009, 14:34
Think of it like poking a tiger.
If you keep poking it and ignore it's growls of displeasure, that tiger is going to tear your face off. However if you dont poke it and be a bit nice to it then it's not going to tear your face off and you can go home and say "I got to see a tiger up close and it was ace".

Is the tiger a bad sport for tearing your face off? No.
Are you a good sport for poking the tiger? No.

Good sportsmanship in the above example is being nice to the tiger.
Bad sportsmanship is continuing to poke it.

It seems to me that a lot of games where people declare that their opponent was a bad sport is simply then not registering their opponents displasure and continuing to poke the tiger. They are infact the bad sport, not their opponents.

Condottiere
21-01-2009, 17:33
The only way to enjoy over the top game is if it's clear that no one involves minds losing and just wants to have fun throwing their units into the fray, regardless of results.

Sir_Lunchalot
21-01-2009, 19:35
Really it's the whole reason why I'm in the hobby - I can get a very similar enjoyment with my computer, the human interaction is what makes me go out gaming every monday.

etancross
21-01-2009, 20:23
Its funny this topic came up cause I was talking to some friends about this a few weeks ago, and what I was saying is everyone someone comes to me and says “Hey Nate lets get a game”, “We’ll have a good friendly game”. Every time I hear this I know I have to get in the frame of mind to try to rip this person apart because for instance on person at my former GW (former cause its closing down) said he wanted to play a friendly game.

He had observed many of my games and had the idea of my army composition and KNEW I played an all Nurgle daemon army with very little shooting (at that time). So game time rolls around and he was playing his elder, I was expecting a tough game but then he goes on to put “20” wraithguard on the board! Up till this point I had never seen 20 wraithguard on a gaming table at the same time (I actually wrote a battlerep about this game that’s in the 40k battlerep section some where) 2 squads of dark reapers, with Magun Ra (i'm sure I spelled that wrong) and 2 squads of rangers and Eldrad. “I was like “yea a friendly game huh”

Well needless to say I was getting shot to pieces, but LUCKY FOR ME it was an objective base game and he had no choice but to come to me and I beat him like an Okie at a Texas barbeque! We had to call the game on time but all he had left at the end was Eldrad and his 2 squads of dark reapers.

The second so called “friendly game” was equally as bad (AND I still pulled out a win) but like I said I hear “Lets have a friendly game” I instantly think

“If he dies….. he DIES”!!

Gimp
21-01-2009, 20:27
Like with everything else in the world, when it comes to warhammer players you win some and you loose some I guess.

thrawn
21-01-2009, 20:34
there's nothing wrong with saying "snake eyes baby" or saying to your opponent "i hope you miscast with 1D6," this to me is taunting and having fun. if the guy gets upset, he's a loser. there is something wrong with pulling a "I don't think you made that charge" when you are so obviously in range, or getting mad at anything! it's a game. people who get mad, they're the losers. i don't think i've ever gotten mad during a game of warhammer, because it's a GAME, i will go home and still sleep soundly regardless if i won or lost.

etancross
21-01-2009, 21:03
there's nothing wrong with saying "snake eyes baby" or saying to your opponent "i hope you miscast with 1D6," this to me is taunting and having fun. if the guy gets upset, he's a loser. there is something wrong with pulling a "I don't think you made that charge" when you are so obviously in range, or getting mad at anything! it's a game. people who get mad, they're the losers. i don't think i've ever gotten mad during a game of warhammer, because it's a GAME, i will go home and still sleep soundly regardless if i won or lost.

100% agree

zak
21-01-2009, 22:49
I don't see anything wrong with letting a bit of steam off when luck is giving you a kick in the teeth. I have been known to swear under my breath and launch the occasional dice accross the room. It's not becaue I can't take losing, but because I become involved in the game. If I wanted an impassionate game I would play chess, but you do get tied up in the game and that for me is part of the fun of the game.

w3rm
21-01-2009, 23:13
My brother and my friend occasionally quit when they are losing. They don't say "I'm bored lets quit" they say something like "I'm hungry lets get a snack and come back later" or something along those lines. I usually let them because I don't wanna play with them if thier hearts not in it. It just gets boring.

Caine Mangakahia
22-01-2009, 01:29
As long as the guy shakes your hand and smiles (if somewhat ruefully) and says "Good Game Mate" after turn 6, then you can forgive him the ranting and dice flinging.

Caine Mangakahia
22-01-2009, 01:32
there's nothing wrong with saying "snake eyes baby" or saying to your opponent "i hope you miscast with 1D6,"

Our group tends to be a bit blunter, like "Miscast, you B@$&d!" :)

Sir_Lunchalot
22-01-2009, 01:43
That's another thing I've noticed. In my group trash talking is generally part of the fun.

Halelel
22-01-2009, 01:44
It's like any other activity in life, there are people who can handle their emotions and pressure situations and those who can't.

I remember the very first club I ever played in when I was young (like 12 or 13 yrs. old or so) had a guy in his mid to late thirties who would literally throw a temper tantrum every time something didn't go his way. It made me feel embarassed to be even in the same room with the guy as he just couldn't control his emotions at all.

Personally, I just laugh or make jokes if things aren't going my way (which is quite often unfortunately for me). I know I go to play Warhammer to get away from the stresses in life such as my job and women...usually mostly women. Why would you turn your fun activity into another life stressor is beyond my comprehension.

The ocassional curse word or dice fling is perfectly acceptable, sometimes the dice gods miss kicking you in the teeth and kick you in the nads instead and people need to vent their misfortunes.

Djekar
22-01-2009, 05:32
I wish I could trash talk in my group. Well, there is one guy - we generally have a good time mocking each other, but the rest are really pretty caught up in the fate of their armies, and so my battles are pretty grim and lifeless if I'm winning (weird I know!), and I can make fun of myself when I lose.

However, this thread is making me want to lose more, so I can work on being a better sport as sometimes I am the guy cursing under his breath or berating his chances of rolling a 4+ ward. I also tend to get caught up towards the end of the game (turns 5 & 6) and focus on trying to pull out the win, rather than have fun regardless. I feel like I am the guy still poking the tiger and being the poor sport at that point. I'm going to try and be more cognizant of that as I play from now on!

Thanks, Warseer, for making me a better sport (I hope)!

~Pantry

AngryAngel
22-01-2009, 05:33
Not warhammer, but I had a bad experience this past weekend.

We were playing Axis & Allies, and the Soviet player had an awful turn because his dice went very sour on him.

I thought it was funny, bad luck and all, but he threatened to leave the game, we had to BEG him to come back and finish, and he swore he would never play A&A again!

He ruined what up to then was a fun day for four other people.

Bad sportsmanship is never excusable. Let the dice decide the outcome, and just play your game.


Speaking of A&A we have a club here that on every other thursday we play that. My luck is so bad, its comical. I can count on one hand, from years of playing how many AA shots I've actually had succeed.

I find the trick is to expect the worst. Then if it doesn't happen that way, alls good. It's when you invest too much into the game you'll find the poor sports show up.

For instance last week on tuesday, I played perhaps the worst luck game I've played in awhile. For 40k a group of CC scouts outflanked into a group of 10 scout snipers. With a shotgun sgt, I fire, kill one sniper. Then, I assault in, with With 15 attacks, end up killing but 2 more snipers. With his10 attacks, he kills 4 of my 5 guys.

I then as well, fail every armor/cover save I am called on to make. In fact the only thing that goes my way, was my gameplay with hosing down a group of 10 strong terminators with a mobile LRC. I end up killing the squad down to 7 terms including the libby. Charge in from the LRC with a chaplain in term armor and 5 other terms including an assault cannon in the squad. Roll godly in CC and just kick the hell out of that squad without losing anything in return.

To that point all I'd killed was those couple scouts, and one tllc dread. So I could have tied it up hopefully, but I had to go so the game ended with me down by one as opposed to relatively being blown away. As well crushing his libby and that term squad was a blow to his pride, so morale point to me.

AngryAngel
22-01-2009, 05:47
That's another thing I've noticed. In my group trash talking is generally part of the fun.

I love some good in game trash talk, thats what its all about isn't it ? At least to me and yes my own group is rather straight forward with the "Miscast you @#$$..and if he does "Ah ha get some!!" Or if they fire a warmachine, "Here comes the misfire"

It's similar for 40k of course. Though then its more.."Emperor protects" regardless of success or failure. Or my personal motto "Fear denies faith" As I throw my units into a situation they should damn well be able to handle. Though quite often don't. Ah well, what can ya do right ?

Edit: I am sorry for the double post everyone, I would have edited my last post to add this in if I didn't forget I'd already just posted. Serves me right for posting at around 2 am.

Sir_Lunchalot
22-01-2009, 05:58
You got it AngryAngel, although I think it does need to be said that everyone has to understand it's all in jest, and that I don't actually mean most of those things I said about your mother.

Although me and a buddy are going to a tourney out of town, and the plan is if we play each other to have the most violent looking game possible, half to have fun screaming, and half to freak out everyone else.

AngryAngel
22-01-2009, 06:09
Of course Sir lunchalot of course. Once people know its all in good fun, you can really have a good time. Hell I even teach the new players the fine art of well mannerd trash talk. Keeps the games exciting and even in a poor luck game its still. " Death before dishonor!! "

The Red Scourge
22-01-2009, 08:30
Our group has a fine tradition of the winner buying a round of beer at the pub afterwards for the losers – to the loser goes the spoils.

Also it is not unknown for adversaries to discuss each others tactics and strategies during the game, rarely does it change the course of battle, as there are so many hidden factors in WFB, but it makes for a good and friendly atmosphere.

Whining over bad rolls, failed psychology, misfiring cannons and an opponents impossible luck is all part of the game. You need an outlet for these things. Just as gloating is a part of winning (it gets people in the mood for your next battle).

I personally have thrown dice (aimed at the trash can or out the window, not my opponent). You let a little steam off, get a laugh and get on with the game with a 'better' set of dice ;)

snurl
22-01-2009, 08:33
Is it still OK if your opponent starts to cry?

Korras
22-01-2009, 10:41
I'll have fun, whether I win or lose. yeah, sometimes I have units who apparently are unable to hit an elephant when it's 10 foot away. I chuckle, and comment on the fact that they'll need target practice.

the other way around, sure, I've played sore losers. sore winners, too. the former I can understand. the latter not so much.

the best game I ever had, was 40K in 40Minutes. my Grey Hunters literally slaughtered his orks. at the end of the game, one marine was down.. and only 3 orks left standing. we were joking throughout the game. his final comment: "you missed a couple.", in as dry a tone as you can imagine. all of us cracked up, and decided some beer would be a good idea.

GodlessM
22-01-2009, 11:54
I disagree, most gamers tantrums are not about you the other player, they are about deep seated insecurities in the one throwing the tantrum. Don't take it personally. The reason you cant say anything to make it better for them is because it's not about you.

You a shrink or something?

Alathir
22-01-2009, 11:58
Is it still OK if your opponent starts to cry?

Then it's even funnier.

Duke Georgal
22-01-2009, 12:25
When I play, I tend to get carried away, but I think it's in a good way. I don't get angry when I lose or overly rubbish when I win, I just live the game with a passion. Yes, I may get loud when I save 4 wounds on 6s, shouting "Praise Sigmar!!" and things like that, but I don't think this is rude or bad sportsmanship. I see it as playing the game intensely and having fun doing so. It's like bringing the role playing in the tabletop game.

Most of the people in my regular group play the game this same way.

Yell out in victory when things go your way against the odds!
Curse a model when it fails something that should have been easy for it.
Laugh at all the unpredictable things when they happen.

Being loud in your fun is not bad sportsmanship. Poor sportsmanship can come from quietly sulking and pouting just as easily as it comes from slamming a table and crying out how something isn't fair.

ML372
22-01-2009, 23:54
In my second game ever I was slaughtered. At the end of it I had a Warrior Priest and two militia left. My opponent kept apoligizing. I just laughed and said its a game that's it. All that mattered is I had fun playing and my troops kept on making thier morale rolls hence when the battle ended on the sixth turn I only had three models left. It was a great time watching his face while I flufffed every round of combat but made every morale test. OO-RAH for the Empire

Condottiere
23-01-2009, 07:50
Some players identify too closely with their models. In football you can at least blame the referee or the players.

Steef
23-01-2009, 07:55
Ghehe, i usually play against the worst type of opponent possible...

..my wife.

she hates to loose, and i get to sleep on the couch,

but it does feel good, to 'beat' her :)

cheers

Lowmans
23-01-2009, 15:45
Is saying 'Get the HP sauce out lads' when you find your ogre unit is in charge range of a unit of High Elf archers unsporting? My main naughty thing is shouting 'Noooooo come back you furry b@$t@rd$' at fleeing beastmen!

Dead Man Walking
23-01-2009, 22:31
I played a guy in a tourney recently who was absolutly the worst sportsman I have ever played, and I have played for over 10 years. It was my O&G vrs empire gunline. He spent the game calling me a twink and cheesy (beardy) and that my special rules were cheesy. That my special rules didn't allow him to use his special rules and every casualty he took he would take the model and fling them across the battle field while giving me the look of death.

The special rules he was talking about was his detachment rules which says if his main unit is charged he can stand and shoot with 10 riflers. His other detachment unit was 5 halbardiers. He charged my 5 goblin spider riders with a goblin big boss on a giant spider with the halberdiers and when I over ran into his main unit he couldn't stand and shoot on an over run and thus my special rules didnt allow him to use his special rules. I pointed to the combat and said, "That isnt a special rule, its a rule in the core book called 'over run' and if you wanted to stand and shoot why did you throw 5 guys at a unit on spiders that has a hero and 10 attacks? You could of waited a turn and when I charged stood and shot. He asked if I was calling him stupid and at that point I just put on my poker face and tabled him.

Nicha11
23-01-2009, 23:41
I reckon i'm a pretty good sport, my dice rolling is so utterly awful that i'm indifferent.

I know that my scar vet will lose the challenge, but i accept it anyway.
Why? Because i'm just playing to have fun and whilst winning helps it is not the be all and end all.