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Treadhead_1st
20-01-2009, 13:24
Since I can't decide between my Chaos and Dark Elves for what to run as a magic/monster list, I've built a war-machine/heavy-cavalry Bretonnian list to use in the mean time.

What do people think of this list - I've not played Bretonnians in game yet, just played around with my High Elves. I really like the Bret models, and feel any re-enactment buff should have a medieval-theme force.

Lords

Bretonnian Lord: Sword of Heroes, Shield, Armour of the Midsummer Sun, Tress of Isoulde & Questing Vow. Mounted on a Royal Pegasus.
275
I'm thinking that I can use him to target enemy monsters. The Tress should ensure most of my 4 attacks hit, and the Sword means I only need one or two wounds to finish off most monsters. Pegasus to actually be able to catch the enemy.

Heroes

Bretonnian Paladin: Hand Weapon, Heavy Armour, Army Battle Standard, Virtue of Empathy & Knight's Vow. Mounted on a Barded Bretonnian Warhorse.
84
The required BSB. Used to keep the Peasants in-line (joins the smaller block).

Paladin: Morning Star of Fracasse, Shield, Heavy Armour, Gauntlet of the Duel, Virtue of Discipline & Knight's Vow. Mounted on a Barded Bretonnian Warhorse.
126
Used to hunt down enemy characters. These days it seems most enemies pack a magic weapon of some sort, and that's usually what they rely on to kill things. The +2 Str should be handy for taking apart my mates Dark Elf characters too.

Paladin: Lance, Shield, Heavy Armour, Falcon Horn of Fredemund & Knight's Vow. Mounted on a Barded Bretonnian Warhorse.
125
Used to prevent enemy Flying movement, allowing Lord to trounce Dragon-like critters over 2 turns if needs be, as well as protecting me from flanking flyers.

Core

7 Knights of the Realm: Gallant & Standard Bearer.
184

7 Knights of the Realm: Gallant & Standard Bearer.
184

25 Men at Arms: Musician & Standard Bearer.
140

25 Men at Arms: Musician & Standard Bearer.
140

13 Men at Arms: Musician & Standard Bearer.
80

15 Peasant Bowmen: Light Armour, Braziers, Standard Bearer & Defensive Stakes.
120
deployed around the base of a hill to protect my Trebuchets. Can reform into 3 ranks, so I'd have at least +3 combat before the fight begins - very useful against Fast Cav elements.

Special

4 Pegasus Knights: Gallant. 0
220
To hunt War Machines and to take 'active defence' against enemy mages.

5 Questing Knights: Paragon.
140
Back up the KotR, add a bit of punch to combats that may become prolonged (such as vs Undead).

Rare

Field Trebuchet.
90

Field Trebuchet.
90
[i]The models look awesome and they're powerful stone throwers. Couldn't resist.

1998 2
105 Models
2 War Machines

The basic plan is that the Trebuchets pick a good firing position, and are protected by my Archers (who can lend thier shots to the Trebuchets' targets).

The Men at Arms create a battle line. I don't expect them to do much damage, but they're there to provide me with rank bonuses, and either lock down enemy blocks so my knights can flank-charge, or if the enemy turns to face the Knights I can charge with the M@A.

Heroes are to take on problematic enemy units, and the Pegasi are to take out small, isolated threats.


Like I said, I've never palyed with the Bret army in the field, what do those with more experience think of it?

Malorian
20-01-2009, 15:26
That lord is too risky. You'll be shot down and he costs more than a full lance would.

As long as the peasants are within 6 inches of any knight they get the leadership anyway.

You have too many points in characters in general. Those last two paladins seem nice until you realize you could get a full unit of 9 knights of the realm with full command and a magic banner for the same price.

Remember that if those archer reform they lose the stakes.

Treadhead_1st
20-01-2009, 23:23
Ok, how's this list looking - it's still quite spendy in the Characters slot, but I feel it's fitting for the Bretonnians.


Lords

Bretonnian Lord: Birth-sword of Carcassonne, Shield, Armour of the Midsummer Sun, Tress of Isoulde, Royal Pegasus & Knight's Vow.
263
Intended to hunt down enemy characters. They can refuse the challenge, thanks to a lack of the Gauntlet, but he's capable of whaling on Rank and File if they do - and he's got the speed to not get caught if he breaks. He'll use the Tress against the enemy character he's facing, so I'm hitting easy and forcing re-rolls on saves. Do you think swapping it for the Heartwood Lance is a good idea - hitting on 2s and re-rolling wounds is quite good too, but not if I get locked in combat (lance looses bonuses)?

Heroes

Bretonnian Paladin: Barded Bretonnian Warhorse, Warbanner, Virtue of Empathy & Knight's Vow.
109
Gets bonus to Combat Res, hangs out with the Peasants, to boost their leadership with his improved arc, and using their standards/ranks to really hammer the enemy.

Bretonnian Paladin: Morning Star, Shield, Heavy Armour, Barded Bretonnian Warhorse, Virtue of Heroism & Knight's Vow.
118
This guy is aimed at taking on enemy monsters. Str6 and Killing Blow should dent them at least - no monster I know of has immunity to KB since it's not normally something to worry them. However, I'm wondering if Virtue of Audacity and Wyrmlance would be a better combo for the same (ish) price?

Bretonnian Paladin: Biting Blade, Shield, Heavy Armour, Barded Bretonnian Warhorse, Virtue of the Ideal & Knight's Vow.
121
Tasked with securing flanks and taking on enemy "elite" units. An experiment this evening had him chopping through my enemys' Greatswords, and the same to some Black Guard. Not bad for a (relatively) cheap hero. Very good at carving up enemy support units it appears, even if they don't break on the charge (high-Initiative), but ASF troops are an issue.

Core

9 Knights of the Realm.
216
No Commands as these units, working in tandem/with the Questers broke every unit they faced by a large margin, so Musicians didn't help at all, and not having a Banner wouldn't have made much difference - so off they went.

9 Knights of the Realm.
216

21 Men at Arms: Musician & Standard Bearer.
120

21 Men at Arms: Musician & Standard Bearer.
120

11 Men at Arms: Standard Bearer.
65
BSB sits in this unit. They're more to stop him getting shot than to actually accomplish anything.

Special

3 Pegasus Knights.
165

3 Pegasus Knights.
165

5 Questing Knights.
140
Work with the 9-strong Knight blocks, to provide some hitting power in subsequent turns.

Rare

Field Trebuchet
90

Field Trebuchet
90

1998

Rough plan:

Knights of the Realm and Questing Knights take one flank. They seem to have the strength to mob-up and break units with little problem (Questing Knights move into position so the enemy can't counter-charge easily - bogging down the Questers doesn't limit their killability. The anti-Monster Paladin is likely to ride with these - since I would think the enemy will try to counter the Knights with tough units.

In the centre are the 3 Men at Arms units, so by the time the Knights have broken one flank they'll be in position to flank-charge the enemy units preparing to counter the Knights. The Pegasus Lord sits behind this line, solely so I can see where the enemy has placed his characters and respond to it.

On the other flank sit the pair of Trebuchets, to launch stones into enemy ranked units and monsters - especially if said monsters are stearing clear of the Paladin/Lord on the other flank. Instead of a direct defence, I'll use the Pegasus Knights to sweep the flank clear of Fast Cav and the like, then focus them to killing war machines. The Mousillion Paladin sits around this flank, to re-enforce the Pegasi, protect the Trebuchets and find enemy units/minor characters to pick on - without causing any/too many of my units to loose their leadership.

Do you think this is a little better than the last list? The Lord is still expensive and vulnerable, but I need him in order to take multiple Pegasus units. I hope that by targetting characters/units he'll be safer than my previous plan of hunting Monsters with him.

EldarBishop
21-01-2009, 00:38
I'd be more inclined to take a Lord on a Horse (that's the way it should be). One unit of PKn is plenty, I try to take 4-5 in a unit with full cmd for maximum performance. If you want some other disruptive fast type unit then pick up some Mounted Yeomen.

The little M@A seems silly to me. As does a BSB on foot, give him a horse and the Virtue of Duty.

Units (everything in your list) that will see combat should have a full cmd...

I can see taking one Trebuchet... but by taking two of them you will probably run out of targets after the 2nd (since you should be engaged in CC by then).

Black_12
21-01-2009, 01:23
In 2000pts, how do you think you'd fair against a list with magic. Not even a magic heavy list could make a mockery of this. True is packs one hell of a punch but 2 trebuchets aren't all that useful.

EldarBishop
21-01-2009, 01:59
At 2k, I generally take 2 - lvl 1 damsels w/ 2 scrolls each if I expect a Magic heavy environment. If you play in a light(er) magic environment then you could prob get by with 1 caddy. Remember you have high armour saves, can get to combat fairly quickly, and damsels have MR1. All of these help a little.

Treadhead_1st
24-01-2009, 21:20
I'm hoping I can make do without a single magic user. This keeps the cost down, and though it is risky, I'd try to "assassinate" the enemy characters with charges etc.

Anyway, I accept this list isn't brilliant, and I've done some thinking. I can start over - or nearly over, with the following pointers:

1) Use my Lord as General (since he'd have the highest Leadership I've little choice in that)
2) Have at least 1 Pegasus Hero (I'm getting my hands on the GW Classic model, and it's quite a nice one to use)
3) Include a Hero with Virtual of the Ideal (I'm thinking of theming my army about re-claiming Mousillion, where a young noble claming lineage of the area has gone to my Lord for aid)
3) Include Pegasus Knights (I like Pegasi, so a unit of them is vital)
4) Include some Peasants, maybe a Trebuchet - or two - but I accept the point about them not being able to fire once in combat, which is quickly achieved with Brets (see Mousillion theme - and I want a psuedo-"realistic" force, with foot troopers to support the Knights/hold ground, not an all-Knight force)

Here's the Lord I want to use. He might not be the best out there, but he's performing really well for me - he goes through units like a madman, and is not exactly shabby against enemy characters either...

Lord: Lance, Shield, Cuirass of Fortune, Tress of Isoulde, Virtue of Knightly Temper & Grail Vow. Mounted on a Hippogryph.
427


For my Mousillion Noble idea, I'm thinking of Virtue of the Ideal, Gauntlet of the Duel and mounted on a Pegasus to join the Pegasus Knights and hunt down enemy characters. Does that sound like a smart move, or should I try something different?

Any help on how to build a list that can capitalise on using peasants + pegasi, whilst supporting a bloke on a Hippogryph would be really helpful.