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40kdhs
21-01-2009, 02:03
Please look at the diagram

XXXXX

CCC
DD
X: opponent's unit.
C: friendly cavalry unit.
D: a Dragon.

If your C and D charge X, is it legal to do something like this because D is a large target and can fly over a unit?

XXXXX
DDCCC

I know that you can't do that if you have 2 infrantry or cavalry units.Thank you for answering my question .

Surgency
21-01-2009, 02:06
If the dragon can see the unit it's charging, then yes, it's legal...

40kdhs
21-01-2009, 02:11
If the dragon can see the unit it's charging, then yes, it's legal...

Seeing is not a problem even though a Dragon is behind a friendly unit because it's a large target. Am I right?

Please look at the second diagram and tell me if it's still legal. Thank you

Before charging:
XXXXX
CCC
-->DD

After:
XXXXX
DDCCC

GodlessM
21-01-2009, 02:13
The Dragon can see over any non-large target models. Only terrain can blocks its LOS.

Necromancy Black
21-01-2009, 02:55
Seeing is not a problem even though a Dragon is behind a friendly unit because it's a large target. Am I right?

Please look at the second diagram and tell me if it's still legal. Thank you

Before charging:
XXXXX
CCC
-->DD

After:
XXXXX
DDCCC

There is only one rule here with this charge that you need to care about and that is that the charger must get the maximin number of models on both sides into combat that is possible.

There is no issue with the dragon swapping sides as it does not reduce how many models both side get into combat. In fact you can do this with non-flyers as well, there's no rule saying you can't, they just need line of sight and enough distance to make teh charge. As long as it doesn't decrease models in base to base contact, it's perfectly legal.

Suspicions
21-01-2009, 03:13
There is only one rule here with this charge that you need to care about and that is that the charger must get the maximin number of models on both sides into combat that is possible.

There is no issue with the dragon swapping sides as it does not reduce how many models both side get into combat. In fact you can do this with non-flyers as well, there's no rule saying you can't, they just need line of sight and enough distance to make teh charge. As long as it doesn't decrease models in base to base contact, it's perfectly legal.

Keeping this in mind, do be certain that you move the chargers in the order in which the charges are declared, then yeah, it's perfectly fine!

Lazarus15
21-01-2009, 03:13
Necromancy Black is right, the exact rules citation is in the new FAQ for the rulebook. You can cross the paths of chargers.

Nurgling Chieftain
21-01-2009, 03:30
Keeping this in mind, do be certain that you move the chargers in the order in which the charges are declared, then yeah, it's perfectly fine!Two units charging the same unit in the same facing are allowed to move simultaneously, so they can split frontage and maximize models in contact for both units rather than one at a time.

WLBjork
21-01-2009, 07:50
Keeping this in mind, do be certain that you move the chargers in the order in which the charges are declared, then yeah, it's perfectly fine!

Not in this case. As a multiple charge on a single facing it becomes a simultaneous charge (see page 23).

Also, the diagram on page 23 suggests that you cannot swap the position of units over when charging.

Necromancy Black
21-01-2009, 08:05
Also, the diagram on page 23 suggests that you cannot swap the position of units over when charging.

It's refering to the rule of getting the maximun number of models in. Notice in the example with the X that there are less models in base to base as the horses have a larger base size. Therefor this was an illegal charge. This is not a referencing to changing sides at all.

Condottiere
21-01-2009, 09:00
I believe that chargers are supposed to take the most direct route to their target, but we know that they are allowed to swerve once during the charge. The BRB does mention that we can't change the position of the chargers relative to their position before the charge, if the same unit is targeted.

I'd say the BRB would be correct in this case.

21-01-2009, 09:11
I believe that chargers are supposed to take the most direct route to their target

Do you have a quote on that, because I don't remember ever seeing anything like that in the rulebook. In fact with there Q&A on tactical charging GW have explicitly said that as long as you maximise, stay in the right 'zone' and have the movement to do so you can pretty much charge however you want.

Condottiere
21-01-2009, 09:27
BRB p 21 - While I risk pulling the quote out of context, it goes:

This can sometimes be achieved by moving the chargers straight forward, but often it will be necessary to wheel slightly to face the enemy.

Necromancy Black
21-01-2009, 10:16
It isn't really along the exact lines of what we're talking about, and the FAQ allowing tatical wheeling overrides any bearing it has. AS per the FAQ, wheel however you want, as long as it brings the maxinmun number of models into close combat from either side, it's legal.

The main issue with non-flyers or non-monsters crossing over is that your only allowed one wheel, meaning its going to eb very, very hard to get it in such as a way that you don't decrease how many models would have made it in. With flyers being able to fly over units and monsters being able to make multiple wheels in a charge, this isn't as much an issue.

So perfectly legal, tricky to actually pull off.

EvC
21-01-2009, 12:39
As long as the charging units have the movement to get there, and they maximise, they can align how they like. But no sliding; for example if the cav was 1" from the enemy and a bit to the left, they don't get to magically teleport to the right side.

Condottiere
21-01-2009, 13:03
1. Maximizing models in contact.

2. No sliding.

Not always compatible.

WLBjork
21-01-2009, 16:21
It's refering to the rule of getting the maximun number of models in. Notice in the example with the X that there are less models in base to base as the horses have a larger base size. Therefor this was an illegal charge. This is not a referencing to changing sides at all.

In the diagram labelled "NO!" there are 2 Archers, 4 Cavalry and 2 Spearmen in BTB for a total of 8.

In the diagram labelled "YES", there are 2 Archers, 5 Spearmen and 1 Cavalry in BTB for a total of 8 - the exact same number.

Therefore, it cannot be to maximise models.

g0ddy
21-01-2009, 17:48
Yes and yes. As long as the maximum models are in base.
The dragon has the mobility to move around a lot in the charge.. other units are allowed to do the same but will find it more difficult if they dont fly.

~ zilla

Lazarus15
21-01-2009, 21:37
Check the FAQ on this both 1 & 2. FAQ 1 covers sliding and that depends on how you and your opponent want to cover clipping. FAQ 2 for the crossing of chargers. Page 2, last question on the left side column, regarding movement. Right before shooting.

"As long as doing so does not reduce # of models that would be engaged."

Necromancy Black
21-01-2009, 22:02
In the diagram labelled "NO!" there are 2 Archers, 4 Cavalry and 2 Spearmen in BTB for a total of 8.

In the diagram labelled "YES", there are 2 Archers, 5 Spearmen and 1 Cavalry in BTB for a total of 8 - the exact same number.

Therefore, it cannot be to maximise models.

Ah your right, I didn't see the little lip of the first calv mdoel extending too far out.

Still, the FAQ's have pelnty of stuff to use to swap sides, and there is not a single bit of wirtten text anywhere saying you can't do this.

krashreed
29-01-2009, 15:07
I have a NOOB question along these same lines
X=enemy
D=Warhound
K= Marauder w/ frenzy

XXXXX
XXXXX

DDDDD
DDDDD
KKKKKKKK

in this scenario the warhounds have declared a charge after checking all charges they are within range. Next come the Frenzy range checks and the marauders must charge because they are in range and have two of the seven models that can see the unit. What would be the resulting line up of comatants or can the marauders not charge because the warhounds are in the way?

Nurgling Chieftain
29-01-2009, 15:29
This one's hard to answer. Just looking at your diagram, it looks like the marauders can't possibly reach B2B, and so wouldn't declare the charge. Potentially, though, the warhounds and marauders could split frontage (this would require the units being a bit further apart) and so both would charge. That would end up looking something like:

.....XXXXX
DDDDDKKKKKKKK

EldarBishop
29-01-2009, 17:50
Yep, that looks right... as long as there's actually enough room to perform the appropriate wheels, etc...

Necromancy Black
29-01-2009, 22:52
Yeah, tricky one. But if the warhounds have decalred the charge then the franzy units could as well, as the charges will then be resolved simaltanious. The units would then be able to most likely move in a way that lets both into combat.