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BigbyWolf
21-01-2009, 22:57
I'm currently running a couple of VC armies led by Vlad himself (until I finish converting/ painting my own lord), and have recently acquired a load of old Skeleton Horsemen (from when Undead was just one army...) that I've turned into Black Knights, so combining the two I've come up with the following army for your comment/ critique.

Vlad- 490
Wight King- Barded Steed, Sword of Kings- 120
Wight King- BSB, Tomb Blade, Flayed Hauberk- 150
Necromancer- 2 Dispel Scrolls, 1 extra spell- 120

28 Skeletons- H/W, Shield, FC, Banner of the Endless Nightmare- 269
24 Skeletons- H/W, Shield, Mus, Std, Banner of the Dead Legion- 229
20 Zombies- Mus- 84
10 Ghouls- 80
Corpse Cart- Lodestone/ Balefire (Undecided at the moment...)- 100

9 Black Knights- FC, Banner of the Barrows- 301
5 Black Knights- Std, Standard of Hellish Vigor- 161

Varghulf- 175

All this comes in at 2279, so I need to drop 29 points somewhere.

The main thing about this army is that it's relatively magic-lite for a VC army, although 6PD and a bound spell and 5DD and 2 scrolls isn't bad.

The aim is usually for the main blocks of troops to form the centre, using Vlads presence to march-move, while the Varghulf and larger unit of BKs take one flank, while the smaller unit of BKs hold the other one. The Cart (with added necro) keeps close to the infantry to dish out bonuses etc where needed. Both units of cav and the ghouls are flexible in their roles.

I'm not usually one for special characters, but until my own lord is ready Vlad is the best Vamp model I have, so I'm using him. I'm yet to be disappointed, as the combo of him with a Wight BSB is pretty good, particularly as the two of them can restore up to 8 wounds on a unit of Skeletons in each combat phase, and they're both very hard to kill- both with T5 and 3 wounds, Vlad with a 4+Ward and 2+ resurrect and the Wight with a 2+ AS.

Together with the unit they generate a static CR of 8 (3 Ranks, 1 Rank for banner, BSB, Std, outnumber, Walking Death) so are a very tough nut to crack, although it does come down to the characters to do all the killing.

Any thoughts/ suggestions would be greatly appriciated!

Yerun
22-01-2009, 14:21
I'd say change a wightking for a vampire... or at least take an other Vampiric unit.
with only Vlad in the centre your mobility is quite limited
and your 5 black knights will be slower then your skelletons...

I think it is a safe list with few risks albeit that 6PD will be easily dispelled and so
there won't be much summoning (I think)

You might want to take an other vampire and lessen the skelletons so you could summon those back? that's what I mostly do.

Hospitaler
22-01-2009, 15:23
the hellish vigour standard means the unit can march without a vampire, whats the use of the 10 ghouls, if they are a bunker, tey need a champ (ghast).
I would go with the balefire on the corpse cart, because the magic defense will be better in the long run, though this is a hard list to drop points from, without one of the raising powers, you need the large main blocks, you could make the zombies smaller and raise them up, or replace them with a unit of 5 dire wolves, which would save 44 pts.

BigbyWolf
22-01-2009, 19:05
I've used the 6PD army before quite a few times and it works quite well. Against armies with 6 or less PD it holds it own in the magic phase- I can usually get off a couple of raisings a turn, and against magic heavy armies it also perfoms fine, as it doesn't rely on magic to get the job done.

I'd rather take the WK over the Vamp as he's a lot cheaper and past experience has proven he's also a lot harder to kill. Although he's technically Vlads 2nd in command and bodyguard when it comes down to facing hard characters in duels it tends to be Vlad who gets stuck in (Pass a Ld test at -4 or I re-roll to wound, mmmm...).

With regards to the small unit of BK, Hospitaler is spot on, their banner lets them march without a Vamp near.

To save points I could always drop the ghouls and zombies (the ghouls are just in there for flank-charges/ annoyance, and i can raise the Zombies anyway...) and get 5 more black knights without command (to advance in the centre along with the 2 blocks of skellies) and give the mounted WK the enchanted shield, taking me to exactly 2250.

Yerun
23-01-2009, 16:08
I see :D
my mistake

nothing else I can add then :D

Mannfred
24-01-2009, 05:44
No grave guard? serious? why not throw out the zombies and ghouls and cut down the unit of 9 black knights to about 6 and throw in grave guard with the banner of strigos - flanked by the two units of skeletons...?

Just a thought...

Neckutter
24-01-2009, 05:49
dont take any upgrade to the corpse cart. it is generally a waste of 25 points, and you seem to be over anyways. i think the BSB wight needs to be mounted, but whatever. :)

anyways, great idea on the tons of black knights. i love to see VC players like myself trying something different.

BigbyWolf
25-01-2009, 10:51
No grave guard? serious? why not throw out the zombies and ghouls and cut down the unit of 9 black knights to about 6 and throw in grave guard with the banner of strigos - flanked by the two units of skeletons...?

Just a thought...

Nope, no GG in this list. I use a unit (or 2) in other lists, but this time I'm just experimenting with the BKs .


dont take any upgrade to the corpse cart. it is generally a waste of 25 points, and you seem to be over anyways. i think the BSB wight needs to be mounted, but whatever. :)

anyways, great idea on the tons of black knights. i love to see VC players like myself trying something different.

I do find the extra +1 to raise can be quite useful, but you're right that it's the easiest way to save those 25 points that I need to drop.

Does the BSB really need to be mounted? He's got a 2+ save anyway, surely that will be good enough?

Thanks for al the feedback so far, I'm going to post the updated list later on...

RossS
26-01-2009, 01:25
Stick with the Wight Kings. As you said, Vampires are very fragile, and you do already have a solid enough magic phase. I always take at least one, but I have been known to experiment with two.

How is 20 zombies working? You don't seem to have enough magical firepower to keep them a survivable tar pit, but perhaps I am mistaken.

BigbyWolf
26-01-2009, 18:57
If I get the first turn, I can usually bulk them up with a quick raising (or 2 depending on what other spells I get...), so they tend to be at least 20 when they get into combat, where they usually support one of the units of skeletons or get supported by the ghouls. Really they're just in there to provide more bodies in the centre, I would like to take a small unit of skeletons but with no Lord of the Dead in the army there's no way to get their numbers up.

Anyways, the updated list is as follows:

Vlad- 490
Wight King- Barded Steed, Sword of Kings- 120
Wight King- BSB, Tomb Blade, Flayed Hauberk- 150
Necromancer- 2 Dispel Scrolls, 1 extra spell- 120

20 Grave Guard- Full Comm, Banner of the Dead Legion- 295
24 Skeletons- H/W, Shield, Mus, Std, Banner of the Endless Nightmare- 229
20 Zombies- Mus- 84
Corpse Cart- 75
6 Dire Wolves- 48

9 Black Knights- FC, Banner of the Barrows- 301
5 Black Knights- Std, Standard of Hellish Vigor- 161

Varghulf- 175

New total is 2246.

Any thoughts?

Makarion
26-01-2009, 19:03
I'd be tempted to drop the Tomb Blade and just use the Wight King's normal weapon. That should get you enough to scrape up 2 units of 5 wolves instead of 1 unit of 6.

BigbyWolf
26-01-2009, 19:43
Agreed- thanks for mentioning it, as he's now in a unit of GG it's totally redundant anyway.

Hospitaler
26-01-2009, 22:28
I looked at the list, thought you only have two core, then remembered Vlad's rule :) Other than getting another flanking unit, Bats or wolves, to support your knights, the list looks solid.

siphon101
27-01-2009, 16:03
I looked at the list, thought you only have two core, then remembered Vlad's rule :) Other than getting another flanking unit, Bats or wolves, to support your knights, the list looks solid.

wait, what rule? Vlad doesn't have any "X counts as core" rule that I"m aware of.

siphon101
27-01-2009, 16:04
Vlad- 490
Wight King- Barded Steed, Sword of Kings- 120
Wight King- BSB, Tomb Blade, Flayed Hauberk- 150
Necromancer- 2 Dispel Scrolls, 1 extra spell- 120

20 Grave Guard- Full Comm, Banner of the Dead Legion- 295
24 Skeletons- H/W, Shield, Mus, Std, Banner of the Endless Nightmare- 229
20 Zombies- Mus- 84
Corpse Cart- 75
6 Dire Wolves- 48

9 Black Knights- FC, Banner of the Barrows- 301
5 Black Knights- Std, Standard of Hellish Vigor- 161

Varghulf- 175

New total is 2246.

Any thoughts?

my thought is that you only have 2 core, need 3 minimum.

BigbyWolf
27-01-2009, 16:21
Yeah, that could be a problem :p...

I'm changing the GG back to Skeletons and giving the WK the Tomb Blade back, and adding 4 Dire Wolves for 2 units of 5. We allow a couple of points leeway, so 2252 is fine. If it ever becomes a problem I'll just drop the Zombies mus.

siphon101
27-01-2009, 17:26
Yeah, that could be a problem :p...

I'm changing the GG back to Skeletons and giving the WK the Tomb Blade back, and adding 4 Dire Wolves for 2 units of 5. We allow a couple of points leeway, so 2252 is fine. If it ever becomes a problem I'll just drop the Zombies mus.

Keep in mind however that the wight king will lose his killing blow if you give him the tomb blade.

BigbyWolf
30-01-2009, 16:20
Yeah, but on the other hand if he takes the Tomb Blade then between him and Vlad I can raise up to 8 skeletons in each combat phase!

gunners
06-02-2009, 10:55
Keep in mind however that the wight king will lose his killing blow if you give him the tomb blade.

I don't belive he will lose his killing blow ability, the GG or BG don't lose their killing blow rule regardless of lance or GW. And i think it says i the VC book also. It is more of a ability he projects on to whatever weapon he's armed with.
Even a wooden stick for that matter:p, it cost -2 p but look really awfull.

Andrew Luke
06-02-2009, 16:43
I don't belive he will lose his killing blow ability, the GG or BG don't lose their killing blow rule regardless of lance or GW. And i think it says i the VC book also.

It explicitly states that you lose the KB if you take a magic weapon (except the Sword of Kings). Thanks for playing, better luck next time.

To the OP, cool list, its nice to see a different sort of VC army. I think a Black coach or second varghulf could be very helpful as it could accompany both your black knights down each flank to keep them marching and provide more punch while your blocks hold down the middle of the board. You could then replace the marching banner with something nastier like double unit strength or hatred, but really I would drop this standard as 5 knights die to quickly to give up an extra 100VP, get a hell knight instead or just an extra knight.

BigbyWolf
07-02-2009, 19:29
Unfortunately if I drop the standard on the small unit of BKs, they are restricted to 8" movement.

The updated list is as follows:

Vlad- 490
Wight King- Barded Steed, Sword of Kings- 120
Wight King- BSB, Tomb Blade, Flayed Hauberk- 150
Necromancer- 2 Dispel Scrolls, 1 extra spell- 120

28 Skeletons- H/W, Shield, FC, Banner of the Endless Nightmare- 269
24 Skeletons- H/W, Shield, Mus, Std, Banner of the Dead Legion- 229
20 Zombies- Mus- 84
Corpse Cart- 75
5 Dire Wolves- 40
5 Dire Wolves- 40

9 Black Knights- FC, Banner of the Barrows- 301
5 Black Knights- Std, Standard of Hellish Vigor- 161

Varghulf- 175

First game is tomorrow, so I'll post back on how I did.