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123DeMaere
22-01-2009, 00:59
I haven't really written a new Empire army in forever( stuck on my Nids and Nurgle in 40k). But since a buddy of mine keeps doing battle reports and people have replied, upset that I'm clearly not trying enough... I figured I would actually try for a chance.

Heros- 818

Arch Lector- Van Horstmann's, Armour of Meteoric Iron, GW-186

Gen. of the Empire-Dawn armour, Crimson Amulet, Barded horse, lance, GW-175 (I wanted the banner)

Captain- BSB, Griffon banner, barded horse, FPA-152

Wizard- D.S, level 2, luckstone-150

Warrior priest- Sword of Sigismund, HA, shield, barded horse- 155

Core-1334

24 Spearmen- FC, Banner of Valour, Detach of 9 Hal. and 5 crossbows- 279

24 Spearmen- FC, Detach of 9 Hal. and 5 crossbows- 249

20 Hal- FC, detach of 5 Cross- 180 (X2 is 360)

5 knight with musican-123 (X2 is 246)

10 huntsmen-100

10 Flagellant-100

Specials- 514

Cannons (X4)- 400

Pistoliers- Marksmen with repeater, Musican- 114

Rare- 330

Rocket Battery 115 (X2 is 230)

10 Flagellants- 100


The list is a mix of advice from friends and posters(the idea was to have no magic but I feel naked without a caddy) . I am still questioning the hero choices but I love everything else... The Idea would be to deploy 6 inchs in with a WM, unit, WM, unit pattern with knights, pistols and Flags' in front... the units protect the War Machines. Knights, pistols run around march blocking and killing fast calvary. Huntsmen really just delay and march block. Flag hit and delay calvary or large/elite units.

The list should be more competive then my normal crappy list. Lots of sacrife units, but huge pressure to have the cannons and rockets to get me the Victory points I need to win. A few of you may be mad its not "uber cheesey" (I play Malorian and everyone wants me to build crazy lists to fight him) but I think it will do fine and is a good all comers list for any army.

Comment, Suggestions, Hate spam all welcome.

(note, I know Malorians list. Although my list is not tailored to his in any way; Since I know his, he should know mine.)

Kalec
22-01-2009, 04:20
Halberdiers. Leave them at home.

Spearmen. Leave them at home.

Swordsmen. Bring lots of them.

Marwynn
22-01-2009, 04:43
I'd make a lot of suggestions but it's getting late (or early) so I'll leave with a few things:

1) Your AL isn't bringing in much. He's safe in challengese sure but he does nothing else. Give him the Icon of Magnus.

2) The General could use some defensive items, like say the 4+ Ward?

3) The Wizard could be dropped to L1 with the Rod of Power, he'll supply you with your Anti-Magic needs, a lot cheaper too.

4) The Warrior Priest again is built for combat when he really needs to bring something else to the table.

5) Not enough Vanilla Knights.

6) Halberdiers are bad mojo. Especially at 20. Consider dropping one block and improve Flagellant sizes to 14 to 18 (7x2 or 6x3) with Prophets.


I don't think it's particularly bad just a bit inefficient in some places. The Spears can work with some solid character support. I would make the case for Greatswords to replace one of your blocks and having a character with the Icon of Magnus joining that unit-one stubborn unit that doesn't suffer from Fear is a solid unit.

I also think you lack conventional shooting units. 15 Crossbows for a list this big? I'd go for 10 Handgunners and 10 Crossbowmen to keep your opponent honest and perhaps 5 Archers as screening detachments for your blocks.

And yes, if at all possible.. Swordsmen.

Makarion
22-01-2009, 21:27
I'll try and gentle... You've got over 3k of Empire here, and I think I can beat that with under 2,500 of my own Empire or Wood Elves. Let me try and give some constructive criticism though.

1. Characters. No focus at all, and incapable of supplying the much-needed unit support. You're clearly chosen to be low-magic, which is fine, although it hurts your psychology defense, and monster-defence. As a result you'll need to pick more items that help in this regard.

* Arch lector. Give him the War Altar - he needs the ward save, and un unbreakable chariot is pretty tasty. If you do, he won't need the Meteoric Iron (although Dawn Armour or Enchanted Shield are nice).
* General. Unless you don't want to use special characters, there's no reason not to use Karl Franz, even if you don't use the dragon.
* BSB. It's good to have a BSB in a list with multiple infantry blocks, but you'll have to take into account that he'll not have magical protection due to his magic banner. As a result, he'll probably die to aimed attacks by anything more dangerous than a clan rat - experienced opponents will keep aiming for him and his 200 bonus VP. If you *do* use the banner, put him in a survivable and large block, like 30 swordsmen (5 wide, 6 deep).
* Wizard. Either make him a level 1 scroll caddy, or give him the Rod of Power and add a second wizard as a scroll caddy. However, his level 2 upgrade is useless at this points total. The luck stone is also a waste.
* Warrior Priest. Good to have a WP, but why ASF with only 2 attacks? Just give him a great sword and the Meteoric Iron on foot, or enchanted shield and hw on a barded steed.

2. Core. Blocks of at least 25, 30 preferred. Ditch halberds for swords.
* Spears aren't too good, but you can get away with it, as long as you also have better blocks, such as greatswords, swordsmen or flaggies.
Speaking of which, make the flagellants at least 18 big, or they'll be gone too quickly to really tarpit someone.
* Consider using units of 10-12 crossbowmen as seperate units, and handgunner detachments - the crossbow's superior range means they can stand to sit on a hill a little better.
* Consider replacing the huntsmen with a archer detachments. THis isn't critical though, just cheaper for close to the same functionality.
Having 2 units of 5 naked knights is good. The musician's a decent choice, too. If you have the points, add a 3rd unit, but it's not critical.

3. Specials and rares.
* Add a second unit of pistoliers with musicians, but NO champion - they aren't there to do much damage, and you're better off with more models on the table.
* 4 cannons, hmm? Maybe overkill, maybe not, since you'll need them to deal with monsters as you won't have magic (Lore of Beasts) going for you. I'd probably cut it back to 2 and use the points for much bigger units of flagellants, or a unit of 18-24 greatswords with a warbanner.
* Rocket Battery is a flavour unit, but not a total waste. I don't think you'll like the scatter much, though - I'd prefer a halblaster for the reputation it has (doesn't work against some players of course), or just more knights (at least 1 IC unit) and infantry.

Overall, I think you have no focus, and no battleplan. Your fire power isn't sufficient for a 3k gunline, your magic defense isn't tight, and your infantry units are definitely too small.

123DeMaere
28-01-2009, 00:48
Alright, I worked on a second list and I ripped my Halberdiers and made Swordsmen from them (which actually was pretty easy but took some time.)

Characters- 717

Arch Lector- Van Horstmann's, Armour of Meteoric Iron, GW-186

Gen. of the Empire-Dawn armour, Crimson Amulet, Barded horse, lance, GW-175 (I wanted the banner)

Captain- BSB, Griffon banner, barded horse, FPA-152

Captain- Full plate, Shield, GW, Holy Relic- 109

Wizard- lvl1, Rod of power- 95

Core-1188

26 swordsmen FC with detachment of 9 Hal and 5 Cross- 266

26 swordsmen FC with detachment of 9 Hal and 5 Cross- 266

5 knight with musician-123

5 knight with musician-123

10 huntsmen-100

14 Flagellants with pro- 150

10 Crossbowmen- 80

10 handgunners- 80

Special- 714

3 cannons- 300

20 greatswords Fc, Detachment of 9 hal, banner of valour- 300

5 pistoliers with musician, marksmen with repeater- 114

Rare- 380

Rocket battery -115

Rocket battery -115

14 Flagellants with pro- 150

Greatswords hold the centre and swordsmen each gaurd one side. Knights and pistols flank and March block. Heros go in units; tooled to be good on the charge against heroless units or be charged and challenge to deny CR. If my cannons and Rocket battery(s) don't misfire and kill themselves I should do pretty good.

Makarion
28-01-2009, 02:22
That looks a lot better already. I'd probably cut points somewhere to add a level 1 scroll caddy (no scrolls at 3k has got to hurt in most games), but overall you're definitely on the right path. Try it, and give us some feedback on how it did :).

Malorian
28-01-2009, 14:09
There is basically no reason for either those 10 handgunners or crossbowmen to not be detachments for the great swords.

One less unit that causes panic, and one less drop meaning you get the +1 more often.