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CGLover
22-01-2009, 08:40
Hi every-one need some help:

1. If a spell is dispelled can The Black Tongue be used to make it a miscast? Or is it only when you didn't roll enough for the casting value of the spell?

2. Can Magnificent Buboes target the Bretonian Damsel in a knight unit in lance formation?

3. If Ratling gun is between to units (no space to pivot) , gets a misfire of 3,4 and the scatter dice shows to shoot one of the units to its sides, is it prevented becouse theres no place to pivot?

4. "Remove the model from play" Does a ward save help from this?

5. Can a Sorcerer on a disc join a unit?

Thank You :skull:

Necromancy Black
22-01-2009, 08:57
Hi every-one need some help:
4. "Remove the model from play" Does a ward save help from this?
Thank You :skull:

The model will get every save availible. You only ignore saves when it's stated that they are ignored. So unless it says no armour/war/regeneration saves allowed, or "no saves of any kind", then you can save as normal.

Dunno about the rest.

CGLover
22-01-2009, 09:22
So...Cloying Quagmire sucks...

6. Can Thorek reroll all failed attempts to strike or just one?
"While ... is alive Thorek may re-roll a failed attempt to strike a rune"

havoc626
22-01-2009, 09:39
1. I'll say only if it didn't meet the casting value, simply because it was technically successful, just stopped before it did anything.

2. "...within Line of Sight of the caster." So no.

3. It really does make any affect what so ever if you actually pivot a Skaven weapon team, as they have 360 LOS. Just because it can't turn, shouldn't stop it from shooting due to a misfire.

4. "Remove model from play." Most rules that cause this say that they get no save what so ever, so if it doesn't say it ignores saves, they should legally get them. Whether this RAI is another matter.

5. It says in the start of the Chaos Mount rules that it counts as a Cavalry, and later says that it flys, so would this mean it is a flying cavalry? I'd say that it can't join units, and there isn't much point with a M of 1. (I have a feeling I'm forgetting a rule about flying characers, but I'm sure someone will catch me on it if there is.)

6. Main rules book. "No dice can be re-rolled more that once, no matter it's source." Even though some FAQ's contradict this, they should be promptly ignored. Or at least, that's how I feel about them.

Atrahasis
22-01-2009, 09:43
1. If a spell is dispelled can The Black Tongue be used to make it a miscast? Or is it only when you didn't roll enough for the casting value of the spell?Only against an unsuccessful casting roll.


2. Can Magnificent Buboes target the Bretonian Damsel in a knight unit in lance formation?If the caster has Line of Sight (large target, on a hill), yes.


3. If Ratling gun is between to units (no space to pivot) , gets a misfire of 3,4 and the scatter dice shows to shoot one of the units to its sides, is it prevented becouse theres no place to pivot?Ratling guns have 360LOS and so do not need to pivot to fire.


4. "Remove the model from play" Does a ward save help from this?No. Armour, ward saves, and regeneration apply only to wounds.


5. Can a Sorcerer on a disc join a unit?No, he is on a flying mount.



6. Can Thorek reroll all failed attempts to strike or just one?
"While ... is alive Thorek may re-roll a failed attempt to strike a rune"

All.

EvC
22-01-2009, 12:52
Although Thorek has been semi-errataed to say he may only use Kraggi's re-roll once.

nosferatu1001
22-01-2009, 14:02
If you are "removed from play" then you have not been wounded, and ward / armour etc ONLY covers wounds.

DeathlessDraich
22-01-2009, 14:16
Hi every-one need some help:

1. If a spell is dispelled can The Black Tongue be used to make it a miscast? Or is it only when you didn't roll enough for the casting value of the spell?

2. Can Magnificent Buboes target the Bretonian Damsel in a knight unit in lance formation?

3. If Ratling gun is between to units (no space to pivot) , gets a misfire of 3,4 and the scatter dice shows to shoot one of the units to its sides, is it prevented becouse theres no place to pivot?

4. "Remove the model from play" Does a ward save help from this?

5. Can a Sorcerer on a disc join a unit?

Thank You :skull:

1) Yes. Good question as there are fundamental points on magic involved here:
A) 'Attempt to cast'; 'cast' and 'cast successfully' are 3 phrases
used in the magic phase.
Only 'cast successfully' is defined in the BRB - It is the only emboldened phrase in the book!

B) Cast successfully occurs when the dispel attempt fails.

C) Therefore Black tongue can be used under 2 circumstances - either a failure in dispelling or a failure to reach the casting value
therefore Black Tongue cannot

2) Buboes requires LOS

3) The Ratling gun rules states it *can* pivot - i.e. it doesn't have to

4) A slain model is Removed from play. The converse depends on the item/ability exact rules.

5) Characters on Flying mounts cannot join units - Flyers chapter

CGLover
22-01-2009, 19:53
Although Thorek has been semi-errataed to say he may only use Kraggi's re-roll once.

What does semi-errated mean? I just checked the dwarf errata ,nothing there...

EvC
22-01-2009, 23:30
Exactly ;)
There's a UK GT FAQ that says to use the errata for Thorek that only allows him to re-roll once per game... except that no such FAQ exists. Weird, eh?

Tae
23-01-2009, 12:31
Exactly ;)
There's a UK GT FAQ that says to use the errata for Thorek that only allows him to re-roll once per game... except that no such FAQ exists. Weird, eh?

AFAIK what was mentioned at the UK GT was that a new Dwarf one was in the process of being written and that this would be included in it.

As to whether this was true and if so when it will come out ... *shrugs and gets big lorry full of salt ready*

Master Incarias
23-01-2009, 12:59
1: Note that the Black Tongue can be used to convert an unsuccesful casting roll into a Miscast. Not any failed casting attempt. Only if the roll itself (i.e. the throwing of Power Dice) fails to reach the necessary sum total, can the Tongue be used.

CGLover
23-01-2009, 16:41
DELETED , sry cheched an outdated book..

CGLover
29-01-2009, 19:54
7. Do war machines block LoS?

Neckutter
29-01-2009, 21:15
Hi every-one need some help:

1. If a spell is dispelled can The Black Tongue be used to make it a miscast? Or is it only when you didn't roll enough for the casting value of the spell?

2. Can Magnificent Buboes target the Bretonian Damsel in a knight unit in lance formation?

3. If Ratling gun is between to units (no space to pivot) , gets a misfire of 3,4 and the scatter dice shows to shoot one of the units to its sides, is it prevented becouse theres no place to pivot?

4. "Remove the model from play" Does a ward save help from this?

5. Can a Sorcerer on a disc join a unit?
:

1. no, read the black tongue rules in the WoC book. "unsuccessful spellcasting roll" means you havent reached the required number difficulty of the spell. deathlessdraich is wrong.
2. can the caster see the damsel? usually not, so no.
3, yes it shoots, because it doesnt need to pivot, being a "single model".
4. usually not, but the description will say if it gets a ward save of any kind. against infernal gateway, no you dont get any saves of any kind.
5. no a character riding a flying mount cannot join ANY unit. even if he tries to join a flying unit. no pegasus riding bretonnians, joining a unit of pegasus knights.
7. depends if your unit can see the opposing unit's base. a warmachine is not a large target, but most warmachine's arent big enough to cover a units whole base. so you should be able to see a bit of their base.
6. you cant reroll a reroll. but you can reroll however many times you are allowed to "strike a rune"

Necromancy Black
29-01-2009, 23:05
7. Do war machines block LoS?

Yep, same way that a skirmishing unit does.

WLBjork
30-01-2009, 08:18
AFAIK what was mentioned at the UK GT was that a new Dwarf one was in the process of being written and that this would be included in it.

As to whether this was true and if so when it will come out ... *shrugs and gets big lorry full of salt ready*

IIRC, that ruling was introduced 2 or more years ago, so heck only knows what the've been up to with that :D

CGLover
30-01-2009, 08:47
Yep, same way that a skirmishing unit does.

Are you sure? Skirmishers do cuz they have bases ,warmachines dont ,thats the problem..

Lazarus15
30-01-2009, 08:48
'Ard Boyz ruled that he Thorek gets one re-roll per game.

Necromancy Black
30-01-2009, 09:00
Are you sure? Skirmishers do cuz they have bases ,warmachines dont ,thats the problem..

Wait, I thought he meant with crew. But still, a warmachine is still a unit. A warmachine by itself will casue frenzy units in range to charge it (this was in the latest FAQ I beleive). Simply by being a model it'll block LOS, though not very much. Some abstraction will have to apply.

CGLover
30-01-2009, 09:09
8. Do warmachines have normal 90 degrees LoS ?
9. What LoS does the crew have 360 or none or whatever?

Necromancy Black
30-01-2009, 09:52
A warmahcines LOS is irrelavent. The crew has 360 LOS. A warmachine mine have a certain firing arc of 90 degrees, but all sight is taken off the crew. If the machine is left alone it can't fire so it's LOS is irrelavent.

nosferatu1001
30-01-2009, 10:06
Warmachines have no LOS, only the crew do - which is 360 degrees as they are US1 skimishers. Thye have fire arcs hence you may have to turn and face

CGLover
30-01-2009, 10:47
So if the enemy has atleast 1 warmachine your Scouts become useless?

Atrahasis
30-01-2009, 10:51
Not useless, but it will become harder to deploy them effectively.

nosferatu1001
30-01-2009, 11:05
Rmeember their LOS is still blocked by other troops / terrain features.

Standard cannon placement in between two blocks severly restricts their LOS for example./

CGLover
17-02-2009, 18:23
Thnx everyone
Have 2 more :

10. Is it true that only 1 challenge may be fought in the combat? Like ,I kill a the unit champ (turn1) in a challenge ,can I then issue another challenge (turn2 ) in the same unit in the same combat?

11. Can TK miscast with pandemonium in play?

Nurgling Chieftain
17-02-2009, 18:44
10. There can only be one challenge in a single combat in a single close combat phase. However, if the challenge ends (splat), you are free to issue another challenge in the next close combat phase.

11. No - as it's not technically a casting roll.

CGLover
28-02-2009, 09:36
10. There can only be one challenge in a single combat in a single close combat phase. However, if the challenge ends (splat), you are free to issue another challenge in the next close combat phase.


Yes thnx just as I thought ,but there's a beardy dwarf player who says that "only 1 challenge per combat" means 1 challenge may be issued per combat (turn1 challenge made and fought, turn 2 no more challenges) . How do I prove that he is wrong? I really need help on this one..

Neckutter
28-02-2009, 09:57
the rulebook says that the challenge ends when someone is slain and that another can be fought. a healthy reading of the section talking about challenges will clear this up.

CGLover
13-03-2009, 08:59
12. Unit A and B are on a hill ,can unit L which is a Large target see unit A?

AAAA
BBBBB

LLL

13. There is a obstacle ,lets say a wall ,between unit A and B ,if they were to shoot at each other ,they would get -2 to hit,am I right on this one?

AAAA

-----------

BBBB

14. When there's a terror couser within 6' of your unit ,when do you test for terror? At the start of every players turn or at the start of the non terror units turn?

Tae
13-03-2009, 15:02
14. When there's a terror couser within 6' of your unit ,when do you test for terror? At the start of every players turn or at the start of the non terror units turn?

You only test once per unit, and you test at the start of the controlling players turn.

i.e. a Lord of Change lands next to some Goblins. The Goblins will only ever take one terror test, which they will take at the beginning of their next turn.

Gazak Blacktoof
13-03-2009, 15:31
12. For Lines of Sight and hills see this recent thread

http://warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=187249

13. Our group treat obstacles as blocking lines of sight unless you're close enought to see past them or big enough to see over them. The book says to use a model's eye view. If you can see the enemy then you have to decide if its hard or soft cover. Normally rocks and walls are hard and forests, fences or hedges are soft.

CGLover
01-04-2009, 08:44
15. When a template hits a model with multiple parts (rider on dragon) do you randomize hits?

16. Is there a rule that, when the hole of a template is on a model ,that model is automatically hit? Or you still have to roll 4+ if it doesn't cover the whole base? Like a stone thrower hitting a Stank in the center.

Atrahasis
01-04-2009, 09:07
15. No - each part can potentially be hit. See the rules for ridden monsters.

16. In the case of a stone thrower, if the centre hole hits the base then the model is automatically hit. This is not always the case for all templates, however. See the rules for the individual attack.

EvC
01-04-2009, 12:21
In short- see if the hole is over the model's base. If it is, then randomly determine which part takes the bigger hit. Then everything else is a partial, hit on 4+. If the template touches the base but thw hole is not over it, then everything is a partial on 4+.

Stone throwers are simply the best counter to Stegadons now...

Arnizipal
01-04-2009, 13:14
Warmachines have no LOS, only the crew do - which is 360 degrees as they are US1 skimishers.
Warmachine crews are not skirmishers. They just follow some of the skirmisher rules (mainly the LoS and loose formation ones).

CGLover
01-04-2009, 20:13
17.
All units are lets say 5x5 formation
A,B and C friendly units . X enemy unit.
B is 1' apart from A and C
A is in combat with X

X
ABC

Unit B declares charge on X, what happenes?
a. It's a failed charge
b. I move straight until I'm able to wheel, then I should hit the enemy unit in somewhat corner to corner.

Nurgling Chieftain
01-04-2009, 20:48
CGLover, from that diagram and description it looks to me like B is already in close combat with X.

CGLover
01-04-2009, 20:55
Sorry bout that ,then if B is 1' apart from A and C

Arnizipal
01-04-2009, 21:15
@Nurgling Chieftain: I think he means something like this (hurray for CODE tags by the way):



XXXXX
XXXXX
XXXXX
AAAAA BBBBB CCCCC
AAAAA BBBBB CCCCC
AAAAA BBBBB CCCCC




XXXXX
XXXXX
XXXXX
AAAAA BBBBB CCCCC
AAAAA BBBBB CCCCC
AAAAA CCCCC




All that matters is that you can reach the enemy. You can wheel once somewhere during your charge. It doesn't matter if you move forward first and then wheel, or wheel first and then move forward. The end result should be that you get into contact with the enemy. You get a free align once you reach the enemy. If you have any movement left you're allowed to slide sideways to bring more models into combat.

In the first exmple I made above it's impossible for B to flank charge X as there is no room to for the unit to properly line up with X. In this case the charge would fail.

In the second example a flank charge is possible by moving forwards first, then wheeling and aligning.

CGLover
01-04-2009, 21:20
Hmm in your diagram , very similar to mine . I see that that there could be a charge depending on the move of unit B .

Gazak Blacktoof
01-04-2009, 23:21
You can charge "corner to corner" but really cliping should be avoided and this is obviously the worst kind of clipping imagineable.

If I were controlling untis a, b and c I would check to see which charge arc I was in and if I couldn't charge the flank of unit x I wouldn't charge.

Atrahasis
02-04-2009, 08:37
If you can make corner to corner contact, then it's a successful charge. Otherwise the charge fails.

Atrahasis
02-04-2009, 08:39
If you have any movement left you're allowed to slide sideways to bring more models into combat.No, no, no, no, no.

Kalandros
02-04-2009, 10:09
If you have any movement left you're allowed to slide sideways to bring more models into combat.

Only if your group plays with Sliding - as it is NOT supported by any rule.

Arnizipal
02-04-2009, 10:45
No, no, no, no, no.
Alright already :eyebrows:

The bit about sliding is mentioned in the downloadable pages with the rules on how to handle clipping and odd charges IIRC. That's offical enough for me but apparently not for anyone. No need to be smug about it...

Atrahasis
02-04-2009, 11:02
Even if the "rules" for sliding didn't have a huge caveat right beside them saying that they aren't official, there is no requirement to have "move left over".

I'm not being smug, I'm incredulous that someone could present an officially unofficial rule as official, and mangle it badly at the same time.

EvC
02-04-2009, 13:13
Really? It's par for the course in most rules discussions.

Arnizipal
02-04-2009, 16:52
Even if the "rules" for sliding didn't have a huge caveat right beside them saying that they aren't official, there is no requirement to have "move left over".

I'm not being smug, I'm incredulous that someone could present an officially unofficial rule as official, and mangle it badly at the same time.
I just came home from work and checked, and it appears you are right.
Thanks for pointing it out to me, but there was no need for all that sarcasm. Saying I was wrong and the reason why, like Kalandros did, would have worked just as well.