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Angelust
22-01-2009, 21:12
Hey guys. Tried sifting through the FAQ thread, but it seems to be all over the place. I had a question regarding multiple wounds and challenges.


Say I take a Chaos Lord with Hellfire sword, which causes d3+1 flaming attacks. He challenges, a champion accepts, and his scores 5 wounds on the guy. The rules state that +5 is the maximum overkill CR you can have, but does the FAQ state that the Lord can now do up to 20 CR by squishing a champion REALLY well?

i.e. scoring 5 wounds, doing 3+1 wounds each unsaved wound. I take it to mean that the +5 Overkill bonus is kind of the base, and then the multiple wound item can then multiply that afterwards. The FAQ gives an example of +6 Overkill CR, which is why I ask. THanks for any help!

Nuada
22-01-2009, 21:17
I've always thought the +6 example is because you can have a max. of 5 overkill, plus the champion has one wound. Total of +6 combat res (it's also in the BRB page 77)

Necromancy Black
22-01-2009, 21:23
The maximun number of CR you can get from overkill is 5 + number of wounds reamining on a model. In the case of a champion with a single wound, this will be 6.

What the FAQ is addressing is that multiwounding weapons will do multiple wounds to single wound models in a challange, as normally they will only do a single wound instead. Without this FAQ, alot of people were argueing that you can't get extra overkill from wounding single wound champions.

If you hit a single wound model with a multiwounding weapon outside of a challange, they onloy take a single wound and no multiplting is done. For example, if your chaos lord hit just a bunch of rank and file models and did 5 wounds, you would not roll to multiply them as all the models only have a single wound, preventing extra CR.

Angelust
23-01-2009, 04:51
OK. THanks for the quick replies! Still, +6 Combat Res is no joke in a relatively safe challenge. May be nice to go and charge certain ranked up units with numbers, banner, and 3 ranks or more. Win by 1 almost certainly.

Fellblade
23-01-2009, 06:10
Right, and that's why the game has become herohammer all over again. Souped up heros can break fully ranked units solo, its even easier when hitting the flank with your lord on a dragon... now the other guy doesn't get any combat res while you rack up the wounds on chumps.

WLBjork
23-01-2009, 06:13
That's why the Champ goes in the *centre* of the front rank of a unit. Makes him safe from a flank charge/challenge then.

Necromancy Black
23-01-2009, 06:41
Right, and that's why the game has become herohammer all over again. Souped up heros can break fully ranked units solo, its even easier when hitting the flank with your lord on a dragon... now the other guy doesn't get any combat res while you rack up the wounds on chumps.

Or you could, you know, refuse the challange. Cause that would make alot of sense you know.

Angelust
23-01-2009, 07:12
I guess a warbanner + musician would be a good investment.

Neckutter
23-01-2009, 17:20
Right, and that's why the game has become herohammer all over again. Souped up heros can break fully ranked units solo, its even easier when hitting the flank with your lord on a dragon... now the other guy doesn't get any combat res while you rack up the wounds on chumps.

you get flanked and you lose combat by a large amount? who woulda thought that.

@angeldust yes. with current builds of character riding big scary chickens, often they do 5 wounds, and the unit has 5 static combat res, which means you beat the character by 1 if you have a musician. full command has a ton of advantages.

Fellblade
23-01-2009, 18:03
That's why the Champ goes in the *centre* of the front rank of a unit. Makes him safe from a flank charge/challenge then.
Then the lord and dragon rack of +10 combat res in rank&file kills and break you anyhow. Welcome to Monsterhammer.

Angelust
23-01-2009, 21:46
Neckutter - I think the problem is you have 6 Combat res. 1 for Champ, 5 for overkill. Most RnF units have 5, unless they have warbanner. This means you charge their face, challenge. If they accept, you'll almost certainly do 6 CR, while they only have 5 static CR. You win by one, unless you somehow roll horribly. You roll 5 S5 hits hitting on 3+ wounding on 2-3+, each one doing d3+1 wounds, 3 on average per hit. After that dragon does 6 hits, hitting on threes, wounding on twos. Unless they have something to boost their static CR, you're almost certain to win combat by at least one.

Add a warbanner, and you lose. But then you can try to rack 6+ kills on the unit, and now their banners are up for grabs if they fail.

I think my dragon Lord's gonna ride around with a hellfire sword, especially if he HAS to challenge...


Edit: Oh, and if a unit ever gets flanked/reared by a dragon, I think it should break most units. I just feel iffy about breaking ranked units on a frontal charge.

Nurgling Chieftain
23-01-2009, 22:06
Honestly, I think people resent how easy it is to charge a dragon into somebody's flank, rather than their possibility of breaking a unit head-on. A large flying monster is a really tough threat to contain, especially if there are other units already threatening your front. Charging a 600-point dragon&lord into the front of a ranked unit, on the other hand, is a great way to find out they did have a warbanner and get run down - it seems unlikely, but man, it seems to happen every time a dragon dismissively plunges into a large unit of puds.