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Hunter245
24-01-2009, 05:51
I'm curious after reading rumors of multiple races (Necrons, Dark Eldar). What armies have been updated to 5th edition (Codex's, Models, etc.). If someone could list them off. Obviously Orks and Space Marines have been updated. Even include the chapters of the marines please (Blood angels, Black Templar). Finnally is the overall date for more guys November this year?

DarkMatter2
24-01-2009, 05:57
Orks and Space Marines are it so far. The Imperial Guard is next on the list (and it is about time.)

laudarkul
24-01-2009, 06:10
Daemons also .

Shipmonkey
24-01-2009, 06:19
The Ork codex also has rules clearly written for 5th edition.

DarkMatter2
24-01-2009, 07:07
Daemons also .

Right yeah, my bad.

ehlijen
24-01-2009, 07:10
Theoritically every codex since Eldar has been written with 5th ed in mind. Obviously, how far that actually translates into fact was highly dependent on how much of 5th ed had been set at the time (ie the ork designers knew more about 5th ed at the time than the eldar designers did).

The only codex that has been developed with full access to the final 5th ed rules so far (ie it was released after 5th ed) is Space Marines.

Generally speaking, army lists aren't 'updated' for new editions (unless the new edition actually makes the old codex useless (actually, not just 'it's under/overpowered now!'). They are instead replaced by new versions of the codex. You can expect 2 of those per game system per year, sometimes 3.

Vaktathi
24-01-2009, 07:26
Daemons are the first "true" 5th ed army, coming out a 5 weeks before 5th ed with rules that are quite clearly 5th ed only as they have no 4th ed counterparts.

With respect to armies that were designed with 5th in mind, for sure Orks, and likely everything from Eldar onwards. All the others work with 5th ed, but weren't designed for it.

40kdhs
24-01-2009, 16:40
DH codex was updated with 4th and 5th and possibly 6th in mind. ;):D:p

HsojVvad
24-01-2009, 19:08
Well DA was suppose to be made with 5th edtion in mind. As some people say, they are the Beta of the SM codex. So you can cound DA codex in there too.

IAMNOTHERE
24-01-2009, 19:30
Codex DH is a ray of pure brilliance. When it was released it was already written for 10th ed 40k. Seriously it's future proof.

zealot!
24-01-2009, 21:55
Daemons are the first "true" 5th ed army,,,

Meh, if we're making sweeping statements... I'll say your wrong. Eldar is the first 5th ed codex.

souljaking09
24-01-2009, 23:48
is it possible for me to have 250 points worth of troops if i am playing a 2V2 and my partner has the other 1250 points. im pretty new.

ive got 3 heavy weapons teams, 20 catachans, and nork deddog.

oh, is it legal to treat nork deddog as a bone ead.

Shield of Freedom
25-01-2009, 03:46
Um, that post came out of left field, what the hell does it have to do with this Thread's topic?

Anywho. No I don't believe the Eldar codex was made with 5th edition in mind. It has rules in it that are already obsolete.

The Autarch has a strategy rating.

The Warpspider's power to allow deepstriking is pointless as jump infantry can all do it now anyway.

It was made as a new codex to finally give the Eldar some love, and I'm sure the developers KNEW about the new addition on the horizon but they clearly didn't know anything about the new rules.

I would say Daemons, Orks, Chaos Marines, and Space Marines are the only codecies that are "up to date" with the current rules set.

The Eldar, Tau Empire, Tyranids, and Witchhunters still remain competitively strong.

The Imperial Guard, Necrons, Dark Eldar, Daemon Hunters and eroneous Space Marine Chapters desperately need a makeover, yes even the Black Templars and Dark Angels. Although the right list with the right player can still hold their own with these armies right now.

Pink Horror
25-01-2009, 05:24
oh, is it legal to treat nork deddog as a bone ead.

I know this is totally off-topic, but because you are new I want to give you the best answer for things like this. You are playing a 2v2 game, so you have to ask three times as many as you normally would: everyone else in the game. If they agree, it is legal. And model substitutions are just the beginning. You should be willing to at least ask about anything you think would make the game more fun.

That's the way they play at Games Workshop: they just make up their own rules and try to keep things entertaining. That's what Apocalypse was all about: make up your own things and have fun. If halfway through the game, it seems like made-up gun X (or official gun X...) is too strong, say it jammed and offer your opponent the chance to bring in a bonus unit through reserves. Sometimes, we need to learn to play more like we are little kids with army men. I mess this up all the time, too. I hope I can approach that ideal, without getting in childish fights about these things.

ehlijen
25-01-2009, 05:35
Shield of Freedom:

Of course they didn't know what 5th ed looked like in detail while writing the eldar codex. That doesn't mean they didn't know what they wanted to try to achieve with 5th ed and wrote and costed the eldar with that in mind.
If they'd known the details, they would have released 5th ed first. They wrote eldar with 5th in mind, not for 5th ed. It did need to work within 4th ed for a while and they knew that.
Autarchs strategy rating? Let's put it in so people don't complain if we leave it out (even though we know nobody actually uses it)
Warp spiders can't deepstrike but will be able to later? Let's give them an upgrade so that they can do it now and later.

They wanted them to be for 5th, but had to make it for 4th as well. And it certainly works decently enough in 5th.

Shield of Freedom
29-01-2009, 03:46
Ehlijen:

Oh I agree mostly. Sure they knew about the rules and tried to point cost them in the direction the rules were going but power creep has already caught the Eldar codex a bit.

I play Eldar so I'm well aware of their viability in the new rules. The army does work, and quite well. However, just like the last Eldar codex there are already rules in there that just don't work in the new edition at all.

The Autarch pays for a strategy rating ability that is now useless. His points should drop slightly. That high strategy rating did give you good chance of going first against almost all opponents except Space marines.

All Exarchs get at least two powers that they can buy, giving the squad some additional abilities. Technically the Warpspiders only have one now, is that fair to that unit?

All I'm saying is you can't COUNT the Eldar codex as an up to date 5the edition codex. It shares a distinction with the Current Wood Elf book and Dwarf book. They were made in the last edition but at a time close to the new edition comming out.

ehlijen
29-01-2009, 04:00
Refresh my memory. What did strategy rating do again? I don't think it had anything to do with going first. All it did was determine who chose the mission to be played if the random mission dice came up 'one player chooses'. That hardly seemed worth any points to me back then, so I don't think it affects the autarchs cost to power ratio at all.

Yes, the warpspiders have one less ability, but unlike all other exarchs, they get to buy power weapons on top of their specialised exarch weapon. Seems like a fair trade to me. Escpecially seeing as they haven't lost anything. They just don't have to pay for one ability anymore.

Eldanar
29-01-2009, 04:07
Codex Eldar was written prior to the 5th edition rules being even remotely close to what they finally ended up being.

ehlijen
29-01-2009, 04:21
Do you know that for a fact? If so, how?

Pink Horror
29-01-2009, 04:55
Do you know that for a fact? If so, how?

The draft that was released makes this clear.

ehlijen
29-01-2009, 05:12
What draft? The 5th ed draft that was illegally leaked or did I miss something? That draft had no dating at all on it.

Eldanar
29-01-2009, 14:43
Do you know that for a fact? If so, how?

Yes.

Unfortunately, I cannot discuss my sources. However, GW was just beginning the playtest phase for 5th ed about the same time the Eldar codex was released. You have to consider that the Eldar codex was "in the can" at least 6 months prior to its release, and then you have to only look at the five or six different versions of the 5th ed rules in development (which I have seen...it is amazing what kind of stuff gets filtered through here), to understand that there is simply no way the developers could have anticipated the interaction of the final version of the rules to the codex.

In part this is why the Eldar were so uberpowerful in 4th (no matter which version you ran), and have been somewhat toned down under 5th. It was the pentultimate 4th ed codex; not an early version 5th ed codex.

LawrencePhillips
29-01-2009, 15:09
Codex Eldar, Orks, Daemon, Space Marines all work very well under the new rules and wont be updated for a long time. Of these only Codex Daemons and Space marines were written for 5th ed, the others have options which are now pointless.

Nostro
29-01-2009, 15:26
Ehlijen, what Shield of Freedom is trying to say is not about complaining about unfairness, but that while codex Eldars was mainly designed with 5th Ed in mind, the fact that some rules that you can pay for are now useless is a proof that it's not truly and wholy a 5th Ed codex and can't therefore be counted as such. It's mainly fit for 5th, not entirely.

Hellfury
29-01-2009, 15:46
I do agree wholeheartedly with Eldanar's last post on this. His reasons are logical, even if he cannot prove it.

There were so many versions of the 5th ed rules that there is no way that the eldar codex was made with knowledge of 5th eds final product.

Same goes for Dark Angels. Possibly, even Orks because as Lawrence Phillips points out, it has options which do not function at all in 5th, even if there is a certain verbiage that fits with the 5th ed that didn't in 4th.

HsojVvad
29-01-2009, 19:22
Codex Eldar, Orks, Daemon, Space Marines all work very well under the new rules and wont be updated for a long time. Of these only Codex Daemons and Space marines were written for 5th ed, the others have options which are now pointless.

Oh come on, we know that SM codex will be updated in 4 years, or right after we get 6th edtion. :D

loveless
29-01-2009, 21:00
Eldar - written with only the faintest glimmer of what 5th would become
Chaos Space Marines - a bit clearer on what 5th would be, but still written for 4th primarily
Dark Angels - likely written for a draft of 5th that was changed into something else - consider it 4th Ed
Orks - functional with 5th, contains statements that only make sense in 5th, also contains some 4th edition bits that I believe were fixed up a tad in their errata
Chaos Daemons - written fully with 5th in mind - can be considered the first 5th Ed Codex
Space Marines - first codex released after the 5th Edition rulebook