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darkelves99
25-01-2009, 06:03
has anyone found a use for these units in the high elf army?

DoubleD
25-01-2009, 06:26
I assume you are talking about White Lions, and Phoenix Guard? In my experience White Lions are just an absolutely brutal combat unit, not nearly as many attacks as the Swordmasters but they can cut through heavy cavalry like butter. Phoenix Guard provide a great anvil that is hard as nails to get through, and they cause fear so can take on bigger things and potentially swing the combat with outnumber+fear.

The Red Scourge
25-01-2009, 06:39
My HE player base his army on these guys. Not dragon princes, and not swordmasters, they're only there to spice things up, the backbone of his army is these guys.

Decent saves to weather shooting, and a decent strength is what does the trick.

Condottiere
25-01-2009, 06:52
Phoenix Guard: anvil, mage bunker.

White Lions: speed bump, anti-armour detachment.

isidril93
25-01-2009, 06:53
put a prince in them...their are the best body guards in the book as no character needs to be with swordmasters

omgadinosaur
25-01-2009, 07:18
PG are our best anvil unit. They don't kill a lot (so a nobel or prince is really use full) but they are very difficult to kill in return. Pop the banner of sorcery in this and laugh as they just sit there generating dice or have it tarpit almost anything in the game.

White Lions are a mix between SM and PG. They are, for me atleast, the most useful of the high elf elite infantry. They are S6, so can thus cut through almost any opponent. They can generate more kills then PG but not as many as SM so you have to field them in slightly larger units. (12-16) They also hardly run when they loose combat and are thus another great tarpit unit. The movement though trees is really quite usefull and there armor save VS shooting is top notch. See those skinks hiding behind some trees planning on trying to multishot your Dragon? Send in the lions through those trees and happily watch as you save a majority of those poisoned shots.

Sword Masters are the killers...nuff said. I run them in 7 as suicide elves. An opponent can choose to attack the swordmasters, who can kill a ton but aren't worth a ton of points, or focus on dragon princes, dragons, other elite infantry, ect. This commonly either make them get to combat with around 5 or 6 models OR they get whiped off the board and my other stuff hits the line hard enough to make Anerion go "Ow".

Gazak Blacktoof
25-01-2009, 11:58
White lions are extremely survivable for elves and if you give them the lion banner they're unlikely to run anywhere.

Phoenix guard are also a tough nut to crack but are best used with a character who can cause some damage.

enyoss
25-01-2009, 12:13
If I need to knock up a decent list with very little effort it will always include a unit of White Lions. A unit of 14 with the Lion Standard and a BSB is probably the best unit I've had access to since the start of 6th edition. It's hardly ever going to run (especially if you give the Gem of Courage to the champion to make sure you pass that first break test) and can carve through just about anything. As a unit I think they can work well in almost any list you could want to take.

Phoenix Guard are also good, but I find that I really need to think about my list more carefully if they go in. To make them as resistant to fleeing as the White Lions you need to buy a few more for the ranks, and they won't score as many kills. However, if they are fighting against a similar sized unit (i.e. a unit where your opponent isn't getting +3 over you with static combat resolution) their durability and above average fighting ability mean they will go on, and on, and on.... Plus, the fear element can be nice if your lucky enough to win and outnumber :).

In essence, I think they're both great units. I think one of the big advantages of the new HE book is that all the elite units are equally viable, which made a nice change from 6th edition!

Cheers,

enyoss

W0lf
25-01-2009, 12:24
I would personally say White lions are the best He unit.

Ws 6, +1 attack VS Move through woods, stubborn, 3+ vs shooting and +1 strength.

Phoneix guard i think are a rubbish unit but my best mate runs 19 with fc, warbanner and a noble with battle banner, they do ok.

the_don
25-01-2009, 14:21
I don't know about about white lions but i'm presuming they are harsh but I do know about phoneix guard they are nasty and they are the ultimate bodyguard for a mage one of the best units in the game in my opinion.

Rioghan Murchadha
25-01-2009, 18:36
One other great thing about WL, with their foresters rule, is that with the 7th ed changes to skirmishing units (being able to be march blocked now) WL can harrass, and bring to battle damn near any skirmishing unit (barring the very few extremely fast ones). Most skirmishers are M4 or M5. When you get that within 8" of a unit of WL, there is typically not enough movement to get the whole unit around out of LoS of the WL unit, and with a 10" charge range, and the ability to charge out of, or into a forest without penalty, they become a serious PITA as a flank protector. Sit them in a forest to guard a flank and they're damn near impossible to shift with normal shooting due to the cover modifier, and the lion cloak. Throw Korhil in there for a few extra attacks and you're gold.

Chicago Slim
25-01-2009, 19:58
White Lions are the heart of my MSU army: I tend to run them in 8-packs, though I sometimes will use 6-packs. They're a bit hard to shoot (3+ save vs. shooting, so they save 1/3 even against gunlines), they hit exceptionally hard (S6, enough to carve through heavy cavalry), and being Stubborn on an 8, they often hold up even against massed infantry with lots of static CR.

Phoenix Guard I tend to take in large blocks, hoping to capitalize on their Fear-causing-- though as noted, they make a great tarpit, even as smaller units.