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TheWarSmith
25-01-2009, 19:14
Wondering if you guys can help me.

A couple points/questions here.

I'm playing Iron Warriors(but using SM rules). Please, no comments on this part.

I LOVE the look of some of the new baneblade chassis variants, but I'm not very familiar w/ some of the rules for them.

1)If I want to use a baneblade in an SM army, would I have to use Apocolypse rules(because it's an IG vehicle, not SM)?

2)Would it be feasible with Iron Warriors background that they would have stolen/built/repaired a baneblade variant?

3)What are the rules for some of these? I know that the stormlord is the one w/ vulcan megabolters(S6, ap3 heavy 15, shoot twice if stationary), and I believe the shadowsword is the long barrel tank hunting cannon(does more damage to structure points i believe). This leaves us without rules(to my immediate knowledge) Doomhammer, the Banesword, the Banehammer.

MistaGav
25-01-2009, 19:25
I'm pretty sure you could use it in an iron warriors force. I think one guy in WD uses an Iron Warriors Baneblade and I have a baneblade painted in a Dark Angels like scheme. All you need to do is come up with a bit of background and your set!

You would have to use the Baneblade rules as well they are the only rules that exist apart from Forge World rules. Also I don't know when the rules for the new tanks will be released, possibly with the kit, in WD or a new apoc book who knows?

Ironhand
25-01-2009, 21:35
Sure, no problem. My Iron Warriors have an appropriately painted Baneblade, and the Apocalypse book specifically says that Chaos can field traitor versions of anything Imperial.

Rules for the Shadowsword are in Imperial Armour:Apocalypse, and those for the Stormlord are in Apocalypse Reloaded.

TheWarSmith
25-01-2009, 21:43
Your name is Ironhand and you play Iron Warriors? hmmm, something seems amiss.

Anyway, I'm aware of the rules for 3/6 of the variants possible(shadowsword, stormlord, and stormsword(short stubby barrel), but it's the other 3 that I'm not sure of rules on. MOdelwise, they just seem to be slight barrel variations off the long/short barrels, but I'm not sure what impact they have rules wise.

I do love the fact that the shadowlord has a 40 man troop capacity. Could that be any kind of unit(obviously ogryns/termies count as 2), or limited to guard/traitors?

Darkane
25-01-2009, 21:57
It's apocalypse so yeah it can transport any unit if you want it to. In fact near the back of the apocalypse rulebook it mentions bizarre situations like imperial guard rough riders charging out of a space marine thunderhawk or tranporting carnifexes in an ork skullhamma. These are obviously examples that are waaaay out there of course, but if you can come up with a way to make it reasonable to yourself and your opponents then you can do whatever you want.

The one thing that might make no sense is the ballistic skill of the vehicles however. You can either come up with a reason to justify it being a lower value (although the shadowsword does already have a BS of 4due to its targeters) or you can give the vehicle a price hike and raise the BS to 4.

AlmightyNocturnus
25-01-2009, 21:59
BOLS has a supplement called Lords of Battle (I believe) with rules for Marine and Chaos Marine Baneblades. I think these Marine versions are called Fellblades...basically they`re a century or so more expensive with a higher BS score than normal Baneblades. IIRC, it specifically states in the fluff that "fast" legions like White Scars or Night Lords don`t have a Fellblade, but that the "tough" legions like Imperial Fists and Iron Warriors have several. I hope that helps.

Almighty Nocturnus

505
25-01-2009, 22:47
ironwarriors having baneblad fits the fluff.

youd have to use them in apoc not because its an IG item but more in teh fact its an apoc unit.

I heard that the data sheets for all will be in a whitedwarf (gotta find someway to sell them;)) they may also be on the websight...if you can find them

ehlijen
25-01-2009, 23:58
You could have a baneblade controled by genestealer cultists in a nid army if you really want to. Apocalypse is meant to allow maximum fun with obscenely large model collections. So as long as your opponents enjoy the game as well as you, do whatever you want :D

Grimbad
26-01-2009, 00:13
Apocalypse says outright in a text box within one of the Imperial formations (The vindicator one? Can't remember.) that Chaos can use all the Imperial formations and datasheets.

TheWarSmith
26-01-2009, 00:14
you'd have to use them in apoc, not because its an IG item, but more in the fact it's an apoc unit.


::edited for grammar/spelling::

Actually, 2 of the patterns(shadowsword & stormsword) are available in non-apoc games as they have rules in Imperial Armour Vol. 1 and could be used in IG armies.

But I do agree that if used in non-IG armies that all of them would have to be used in APOC games. I'm not super pleased about this because I've seen the nonsense that some make of apoc games. I wouldn't want to be pulling out all of the stops, but just adding this bad boy in larger games(i.e. i'd still have a 5th edition legal army along with it).

If only the stormblade was an option in the kit, but I understand why it's not.

ehlijen
26-01-2009, 00:24
The old IA style rules for tanks have supposedly been 'officially' replaced by the apoc versions, even if the game does not use apoc rules. The idea being apparently that large scale games without apoc rules are meant to go away and make room for more apocalypse!

Not that I agree with any of that. Yes, if you wish to play non-apoc games big enough for multiple detachments, the old IA rules are good to go for superheavies. You should, in those cases, obey the faction and other restrictions though as those versions were more carefully designed to not overpower other armies even if they don't bring their own superheavies. Apoc balancing however pretty much requires that both sides have equal amounts of those sillily overpowered super heavies with apoc rules.

And as I beleive the say in the book, apoc games work best if all players discuss all aspects of the game (including what's in each army) before the game.

TheWarSmith
26-01-2009, 03:25
Yeah, that's almost exactly how i feel about it. Looking at the apoc rules, they would absolutely slaughter an army that didn't bring apoc stuff as well. I mean 30 S6 AP3 shots against an army w/ just normal weapons would be ludicrous.

This is why I'm mostly tempted to make it a simple shadowsword, but then again or a stormsword, but I'm not entirely sure.

Soupcat
26-01-2009, 04:32
Don't they specifically state on datasheets which ones can and can't be used in normal 40k games, or at least I am pretty sure they do in IA: apoc at least, cause I know I can use my 700 point BT in normal 2000 point game thanks to the faq for deamons :D
But yeah, I guess they sorta assume that if your playing games large enough to have a second detachment, you can house rule it, as you were probably already doing that before the apoc release anyways :P

evil gordak
26-01-2009, 04:33
heres a question if you use a baneblade in a marine army can you have chronus hop in and have your self a fairly badass tank and the scary prospect of 30 BS 5 S 6 shots a turn

Angelus Mortis
26-01-2009, 11:53
heres a question if you use a baneblade in a marine army can you have chronus hop in and have your self a fairly badass tank and the scary prospect of 30 BS 5 S 6 shots a turn

Not if your following the rules for Chronus as it says "he starts the game as the commander of a SPACE MARINE tank". So, no sorry. Nice try though. :p

Shangrila
26-01-2009, 11:57
A space marine baneblade is 100 points more, and is BS 4. aka the fellblade.

Angelus Mortis
26-01-2009, 12:02
A space marine baneblade is 100 points more, and is BS 4. aka the fellblade.

And those OFFICIAL rules are printed where? I'll give you a hint. The name starts with "N" and ends in "owhere". Rules made up by players are just that. Made up. If your gonna play following official rules, then there is no such animal.

evil gordak
26-01-2009, 13:28
Not if your following the rules for Chronus as it says "he starts the game as the commander of a SPACE MARINE tank". So, no sorry. Nice try though. :p


well it does not state anywhere that a land raider is a space marine tank. it just says in the armylist and in apoc you bring the baneblade as part of your list. plus is apoc not the most hard line rules system ever made just say he is some super forge father or something from any of the hard core tech heavy marine chapters. not an arg have argument just seems fun anf fluffy for some chapters like the tank heavy one in the codex. or better yet have him command the fortress of arragence and have yarrik point one direction and chronus pointing the other and and have the board divided between marines and guard. or just have them on top hugging each other in a diorama

RichBlake
26-01-2009, 15:26
1)If I want to use a baneblade in an SM army, would I have to use Apocolypse rules(because it's an IG vehicle, not SM)?

Yes and you would need to be playing Apocalypse.

Unless your opponent lets you do otherwise in which case you can do whatever the hell you want.


2)Would it be feasible with Iron Warriors background that they would have stolen/built/repaired a baneblade variant?

They scrounge vehicles don't they? If I was an army of Space Marines that looted vehicles and repaired them to use against my opponents the FIRST ones I'd steal are the Super Heavies.



3)What are the rules for some of these? I know that the stormlord is the one w/ vulcan megabolters(S6, ap3 heavy 15, shoot twice if stationary), and I believe the shadowsword is the long barrel tank hunting cannon(does more damage to structure points i believe). This leaves us without rules(to my immediate knowledge) Doomhammer, the Banesword, the Banehammer.

There are currently only Apocalypse rules for the Stormlord. The Shadowsword, I'd expect, would be a strength D weapon that causes the loss of D3 structure points. Probably.

Or it will simply be a long range strength D weapon.

The others I have no idea what the hell they are.

Angelus Mortis
26-01-2009, 15:57
well it does not state anywhere that a land raider is a space marine tank. it just says in the armylist and in apoc you bring the baneblade as part of your list. plus is apoc not the most hard line rules system ever made just say he is some super forge father or something from any of the hard core tech heavy marine chapters. not an arg have argument just seems fun anf fluffy for some chapters like the tank heavy one in the codex. or better yet have him command the fortress of arragence and have yarrik point one direction and chronus pointing the other and and have the board divided between marines and guard. or just have them on top hugging each other in a diorama

Then you dont mind me putting him on my Ultramarines Big Mek Sompa with the Heavy 6d6 Gattler do you? How about my Ultramarines Doomsday Monolith? I mean, since were talking apocalypse there are no rules right? (Wrong.) There has to come a point when you say this is stupid, even by apocalypse standards and IMHO, calling a Baneblade a Fellblade and giving BS4 falls into that category. Just play it like its written. Put Chronus on a SM Tank like hes supposed. Stop trying to wiggle every little, silly (and I might add frivolous) advantage you can out of it. I mean, a BS3 Baneblade is freaking nasty as it is. You dont need to put Chronus on it. It crosses the line into cheese even for Apocalypse. And thats no small feat.

evil gordak
26-01-2009, 16:17
well a stomper is not a tank so dont be silly :) and im pretty sure alot of people have no problems with marines owning a bane blade it makes sense and his rule in the army list just says assign to a tank to so you can argue both. and if they give examples of carnifexs rideing around in ork transports its not to hard to imagine a marine hoping in a tank and going right lads lets go. your fun you stress to much. and with the amount of stuff you can bring in apoc bs 5 on one tank will not cheese out your army

Alessander
26-01-2009, 16:50
I'd expect WD to come out with new datasheets for the new tank kit when they are released. Plastic = will have official non-IA rules.

Remember, Apocalypse is about "anything goes" fun games. If you're quibbling over rules in an apocalpse game, you shouldn't be playing it.

Chem-Dog
26-01-2009, 17:00
I'm playing Iron Warriors(but using SM rules). Please, no comments on this part.

Not even for a resounding thumbs up?

I LOVE the look of some of the new baneblade chassis variants, but I'm not very familiar w/ some of the rules for them.


1)If I want to use a baneblade in an SM army, would I have to use Apocolypse rules(because it's an IG vehicle, not SM)?

Only way you can. Super Heavy vehicles are Apocalypse only.


2)Would it be feasible with Iron Warriors background that they would have stolen/built/repaired a baneblade variant?

Iron Warriors have fluff that has them stealing TYRANID space craft, after that anything is possible!
Seriously though, Iron warriors would have access to SH's from Pre-Heresy Era, Captured and/or rebuilt ones AND new builds (from captured facilities) it's also entirely possible that a warsmith would accept a tribute of SH's as payment for their assistance, perhaps to a rogue Planbetary governor


3)What are the rules for some of these? I know that the stormlord is the one w/ vulcan megabolters(S6, ap3 heavy 15, shoot twice if stationary), and I believe the shadowsword is the long barrel tank hunting cannon(does more damage to structure points i believe). This leaves us without rules(to my immediate knowledge) Doomhammer, the Banesword, the Banehammer.

I'm not sure on most of them, Think the Doomhammer was said to have a 10" -ignores cover- template (a bigger version of the Hellhammer gun) other than that, I don't know.

IJW
26-01-2009, 17:26
And those OFFICIAL rules are printed where? I'll give you a hint. The name starts with "N" and ends in "owhere". Rules made up by players are just that. Made up. If your gonna play following official rules, then there is no such animal.
Did you miss the bit where this was a discussion of Apocalypse units? You know, the expansion which goes out of it's way to encourage the players to make up their own units and scenarios?

evil gordak
26-01-2009, 17:35
Yay back on fun stuff. So do you think they will release any chaos datasheet like the nugle blade but maybe for the different gods and varients i think one per god would be cool.

Angelus Mortis
26-01-2009, 21:55
well a stomper is not a tank so dont be silly :)
But we're talking apocalypse with no rules restrictions right (wrong)? Besides, if you want to be technical, then I can be technical. How about I put him on my Ultramarine Leviathan, or Capitol Imperialis? Or how about my scatch builter Imperator on tracks? My point stands, stop trying to weasel frivolous advantages. Its bad form.

Angelus Mortis
26-01-2009, 21:57
Remember, Apocalypse is about "anything goes" fun games. If you're quibbling over rules in an apocalpse game, you shouldn't be playing it.

I think if your quibbling over making a Baneblade BS4 because BS3 just doesnt cut it, well, you should quit 40k altogether. Why dont we just give all Guardsman BS5 and S6 AP1 blast weapons? As I stated earlier, theres a point where it gets stupid.

TheWarSmith
26-01-2009, 22:11
I think if your quibbling over making a Baneblade BS4 because BS3 just doesnt cut it, well, you should quit 40k altogether. Why dont we just give all Guardsman BS5 and S6 AP1 blast weapons? As I stated earlier, theres a point where it gets stupid.

Let's play w/ rules for movie marines!!! Those games are SOOO much fun.

Bekenel
26-01-2009, 22:47
I think if your quibbling over making a Baneblade BS4 because BS3 just doesnt cut it, well, you should quit 40k altogether. Why dont we just give all Guardsman BS5 and S6 AP1 blast weapons? As I stated earlier, theres a point where it gets stupid.
Why don't we ignore the bit where Apocalypse is meant to be a fun evening with friends, playing a game? If you're trying to win at Apocalypse, you're doing it wrong, and taking a Space Marine Tank Commander in what is, for intents and purposes, a Space Marine tank (since its Apocalypse and you can do what you want if your opponent(s) agree), is entirely right. Sure it makes the Baneblade super awesome, but then again the opponent might have a very large number of anti-Super Heavy Weapons, or maybe even a Titan or two.

Ahaha, wait. Titan piloted by Chronus. Awesome.

TheWarSmith
27-01-2009, 01:47
Ahaha, wait. Titan piloted by Chronus. Awesome.

No, that one isn't nearly as plausible. For one, a titan isn't a tank, aha!!!

Ravening Wh0re
27-01-2009, 08:58
So much for Space Marine fast attack methodology :).....