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W0lf
27-01-2009, 13:58
Like the thread title lets discuss the options/builds that people expect to do well at tournys.

Lizards will be my tourny list for this season after the dissapointment that was WoC (personal oppinion ofc) and this is W0lfs take;

1. Anti-magic needs to be solid but cheap-ish.
2. Lots of throwaway-divert units
3. Combine units for synergy
4. Guerrilla playstyle
5. Dont take over-priced chariots (stegs)
6. cohorts have a use as rank breakers but little else, deffinatly dont include krox.
7. Razordons > Sallies. The sallies main benefit is 1 wound = 1 panic but lots of ITP and razordons dish out more damage. Plus like to cause panic anyway.

So my sample list (few pts may be off need to re-check book);

Slaan
BSB, Warbanner
+1 PD/spell, Knows full lore, Enemy discards 6's
Scroll, 2x power stones.
490pts

Priest
lvl 2, Diadam, scroll
150pts

4x 10 Skirmished skinks with blow pipes
280pt

16 temple guard
champ
270 pts

5 Chameleon skinks
60 pts

2x 4 Kroxigor
440 pts

2x 2 Razordons
300pts

so? This is my take on how to play lizards for tourny style, yet to playtest but will get on it asap.

Movement and use of skinks will be 100% vital to how this list works.

GuyLeCheval
27-01-2009, 14:13
I think you stand very little chance in a more or less open terrain field against, for example, horde Skaven. 1 ranked close combat unit isn't gonna fit the bill in such a situation. I strongly advise to get some spear saurus to fullfill this role. Maybe dropping some krox and chameleon skinks?

W0lf
27-01-2009, 14:21
Horde skaven?

SAD or non-sad. I think the only tournament skaven you will see will be SAD which happen to be small in number and with lots of jezzails/warp cannons and PWG.

The greyseer will struggle to cast plague with my slaan about and the priest will go for +2 DD. Giving my 7 DD, 2 scrolls but keeping my fire slaan to score VPs on jezzails/skirmished units and cause panic checks. Razordon + skinks skirt round flanks and casuse as much panic/disruption as possible.

I think i can beat SAD skaven with this list.

Finnigan2004
27-01-2009, 14:34
I don't like the kroxigors. I didn't mind my kroxigors with strength 7, but with strength 6 and still at WS 3, I think that they will struggle. I'm going to try replacing them with some sauruses, but will probably revert to skink troops, if powergaming. I did run a list a little like this in the past, and found that it was actually tough when I ran into a dedicated close combat army. Small ranked cohorts might be useful for redirecting because they are very cheap.

W0lf
27-01-2009, 22:25
maybe do the following;

drop 4 kroxigor + Cham skinks.
280 pts saved.

2 more razordons for max units 150
2x 10 ranked skinks 100

30pts left, Standard beaerer and mus on temple guard.

Better or worse?

Finnigan2004
28-01-2009, 02:46
I think it looks o.k.. I like the temple guard. They make a great anvil-- generally fighting to the last man barring my catastrophic bad luck. My army was good against most opponents, but had trouble in some terrain. It's certainly fun to play in any case. You might have more luck with the kroxigors than me. It's the to hit rolls that kill me usually, and now the strength nerf makes me wary-- you might get luckier. On an aside, when it comes to rolling, I once rolled something like twenty hits on some knights with my salamanders, about eighteen wounded, and then the other guy rolled every single armour save on a 3+. He laughed at me a lot. Probability is not generally my friend.

The only frustration that I found with the lists was that it had a tough time in stand up fights. If you are not looking to duke it out, it might be a lot of fun, but watch those fast combat lists. I do like the ranked skinks to redirect though-- the throw aways might be well worth the points.

I only glanced through the new book; so I don't know the exact new stats, but I do think that stegadons are a great addition-- if you can find the points. The impact hits are nice, the artillery might be nice (didn't read the whole thing, but there's already a debate on another forum as to whether the poison means that it penetrates all ranks on a six... :rolleyes:), and the model is pretty cool too.

fubukii
28-01-2009, 05:27
i think a list with a carnosaur may be a good competitive style for lizzys, skink priest with diadem and another with scrolls will handle magic d nicely.

Aglemar
28-01-2009, 15:39
From reading the rumors, wouldn't a evasion magic/shooting list do well for the lizardmen in this edition? Very few or no block units in one large group centered on a Slaan BSB and EotG skink, with razordons to take the charge, and maybe the skink caster hero to round it off. The Slaan can cast spells through the EotG skink, the EotG skink can hide behind a screen, everything has 5+ ward save and you have plenty of casting and short range shooting along with a fair amount of mobility.

W0lf
28-01-2009, 15:53
Thats pretty much what i went for. Exept i skipped the 300 pt EoTG.

I think this should work.. needs testing.

Aglemar
28-01-2009, 16:29
The reason I like the EotG is that it allows you to screen your slaan and replace your temple guard while keeping him safe. This would allow your army to freely move in any direction, which can really mess up some opponents.

W0lf
28-01-2009, 16:39
If you mean screen as in 'put in front of' then the slaan cant see to cast.

If you mean screen as in 'hide' and use priest to cast then you dont need EoTGs for that.

Frankly
28-01-2009, 17:19
I don't like the kroxigors. I didn't mind my kroxigors with strength 7, but with strength 6 and still at WS 3, I think that they will struggle.

Are they still the same points cost? If so I'll be dropping them too, more so that they can't charge through skinks, that little trick was a slann life saver.

Finnigan2004
29-01-2009, 13:39
Are they still the same points cost? If so I'll be dropping them too, more so that they can't charge through skinks, that little trick was a slann life saver.

From what I've heard, they're about 3 points lower. Not enough to really make a difference. I'm not sure why they got nerfed, but if what I have heard is true, they seem like expensive ironguts without a bull charge. I think the developers might have thought that the mixed formation would make them better, but to me it looks like cheap combat resolution for opponents.

W0lf
29-01-2009, 14:30
They are in all ways bad ironguts yes.

Bac5665
29-01-2009, 15:48
I don't know how to win without saurus or an EOTG. (W0lf, I know you have bad feelings towards that acronym, but this one's betterm honest. ;))

I like the razordons, and I agree that stegs prolly aren't worth their points, except for the EOTG. And the reason for that is honestly for the extra dice for the skink, when combined with other bonuses, in my opinion, does enough good to make it worth it. The Slaan by his self is good, maybe the best mage for the points, but with the level "3" skink priest, nothing in the game will really own the magic phase against any opponent, and your list needs to do that.

Also, I would take a few blocks of saurus. They are rock hard now, and will really take charges like they were supposed to last edition. I think that they are the only thing in the new lizardmen list that can take on other sides "deathstar" type units. Skinks are fine, and playing point denial by fleeing and rallying with them over and over again may work some of the time, but it wont get many points back, and its not fun to play against. Also, they are less forgiving, since if they all start panicing, they will chain, and that can be bad. Saurus will be much easier to maneuver correctly, and will perform more reliably in combat. If you can, I would trade in some skinks for a unit of saurus, just to have more CC power, and still have some skinks left to distract the enemy.

Frankly
29-01-2009, 15:53
From what I've heard, they're about 3 points lower. Not enough to really make a difference.

3pts for the loss of str7 ? hmmm .... something sound fishy too me. It really sounds like the L.M. book was rushed through imho. Alot of strange changes ... this being one of them. Anyway I'll hold off judging the book to harshly until I buy my copy and have a few games.

infernus31
29-01-2009, 16:13
I've been messing around with the lizzies with most of the new stuff for a good few weeks, and thankfully most of the rumours I tried were accurate with the new book in my hands.

Being as this is an extension essentially of being magic heavy from my old list I can only really comment on that side of the army, the combat does look very intresting, the carnosaur is sooooo much better then before...

I like the engine of the Gods, it works so well when allied with the Slann to ensure magical domination and a good deal of defence (using portent of ward first to protect then burning alignment has worked well). What I have found works is when the Engine is used in tandem with a lore of the beasts slann, the wolf hunts is just brilliant to manuvre your steg just where you want,

Temple Guard seem the uber unit they were always assumed to be, against massed ghouls they stood and managed to eventually get through, the extra armour save is essential, and being Immune to psychology saves so many points that used to be spent on the irksome totem of prophecy.

Then theres the Saurus, they are amazing, no serious lizardmen player should consider not using them in a tournament, the defensive ability of these has been to me, second to none, they have beaten units in the past that i had considered much better, such as frenzied corsairs, executioners, massed ghouls (again) and numerous ASF High Elf units.

Then my pet trick is a hide of the cold one saurus scar vet with a great weapon, watch him take the damage in a challenge and then hit back with his mighty attacks, eh even survived a round with archaon! Not to mention the help the fear immunity it causes on my saurus block.


Just my experiences, as i say havent tried everything out, but these are the things I have found to work so far.

Frankly
29-01-2009, 16:21
Temple Guard seem the uber unit they were always assumed to be, against massed ghouls they stood and managed to eventually get through, the extra armour save is essential, and being Immune to psychology saves so many points that used to be spent on the irksome totem of prophecy.

Then theres the Saurus, they are amazing, no serious lizardmen player should consider not using them in a tournament, the defensive ability of these has been to me, second to none, they have beaten units in the past that i had considered much better, such as frenzied corsairs, executioners, massed ghouls (again) and numerous ASF High Elf units.



I really like the sound of this. I'm glad those L.M. players who stood by their saurus unit in the last armybook get rewarded for their efforts. Us skink horde players have had our time in the sun.