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Nu Fenix
29-01-2009, 17:05
I dropped out of the hobby a few years ago, and used to play Orcs and Bretonnians. So, getting back into it, I decided that I would go for an Empire army, after always contemplating it, and noticing that they were very rare in my local area.

I would like to say in advance that I am avoiding all cavalry. Whilst they do have their uses [Pistoliers], I want to go for a pure footslogger army, after all the horses I had to paint with Brets.

I am aiming for a mixed force between blocks of infantry and firepower. I have showed this to my friends, and they claim I have a gunline, which I disagree with due to how much infantry I have.

Hero
Captain, Full Plate, Shield = 60

Captain, BSB, Armour of Metoric Iron, War Banner = 125 [185]

Wizard, Lvl 2, Rod of Power = 130 [315]

Core
25 Swordsmen, Full Command
Detachment: 12 Free Company
Detachment: 12 Free Company = 295 [610]

25 Swordsmen, Full Command
Detachment: 12 Free Company
Detachment: 12 Free Company = 295 [905]

10 Handgunners
Detachment: 5 Crossbows
Detachment: 5 Crossbows = 160 [1065]

10 Handgunners
Detachment: 5 Crossbows
Detachment: 5 Crossbows = 160 [1225]

Special
Great Cannon = 100 [1325]

Great Cannon = 100 [1425]

Mortar = 75 [1500]

Now, I was always a fan of Marienburg when I played Mordheim, so I may paint them in the same scheme and use that as my army theme. It is part of the reason why I have avoided from taking any Priests. The other reason is, I prefere Wizards as they can dispel and access Arcane Magic Items.

I haven't taken any magic items on my general for the fact of, his job isn't to fight, but to bring his Leadership to the army. If I spent 50 points on magic items, in my mind that is 10 less Free Comapny I could be using, and I know which will do more. So, I am a firm believer in minimalism in the army [after reading the thread about it elsewhere on the forums].
Conversly, I have given magic armour to the BSB, as I wanted to give him a solid save for when he got into combat, and is only 1 better then the generals 2+ save, and also means I can take the War Banner to increase my odds of winning combat. I feel that the Griffon Standard is best used for 2000+ games, as it is more necessary.

I wanted to make the most of the detachments with my units, as to me that is what makes the Empire unique. Whenever I see units without them, or that could be a detachment and aren't, it feels like ignoring a special part of your army.
The Free Company I went for 12 strong units so I could get a 6 wide front, and also means they can take a bashing and still give it back. I have commented in other peoples army lists that I find it better to avoid taking ranks and doubling up on detachments, but since I have both detachments, I have gone for increasing their size. Plus, it also means they have a reasonable chance if they get into combat on their own.

I decided against the Rare warmachines for the fact that I feel they are most effective when working in pairs, and that they come second after the Special warmachines, which are the standard in my mind.

When I was planning this army, I bought a large amount of plastic models, and so I will say what I own that isn't in this list, as it is for 2000 point games, and a bit of variety from time to time.

1 Wizard.
10 Halberdiers [to be built, for use as a Detachment].
12 Free Company [Unbuilt, will likely be used to make Archers/Huntsmen].
1 Cannon [They are the answer to almost any problem. Especially since some Lizardmen players have been commenting on Stegadon based armies. Cannonball to the head is my answer!].
2 Helblaster / rocket lanucher [Unbuilt, and will have the weapons unattached so they can be swapped depending on opponent].

When I upgrade to 2000 points, most of that will hopefully get into the list.

Malorian
29-01-2009, 17:21
Well you're bang on with the general, although I still think the griffin banner is a must in an infantry army (even at 1500).

As far as it being a gunline, there is a lot of shooting but it still falls short of a true gunline.

The detachments are a bit big and you may find trouble with them. The most common set up are units of 9 (3X3) which don't take up a lot of space and a fair amount of damage has to be done on them before they can't take away ranks. And really, this is all they are for. Detachments aren't really going to get you a lot of kills, they just take away the ranks so that the static CR of the parent unit can do its job. Freecompany are usually taking in units of 5 for (very) cheap throwaway units or slightly larger if being a missile screen, but archers will fill that roll better.

Makarion
29-01-2009, 22:31
One small note: your BSB cannot have a magical banner if he has any magic gear. You could drop him armour of meteoric iron for a full plate and a barded warhorse, if you wish, although I would personally give him the Shroud of Magnus (or Meteoric Iron and Icon of Magnus).

I would give your general a great sword (but let him keep the shield), if you can find the points.

You may find it interesting to experiment with exchanging a unit of handgunners for one of crossbows. They can shoot just that little bit further, which I have found quite useful.

Nu Fenix
29-01-2009, 22:38
But I thought that if my banner was within my 50 point magic item allowance, it could be combined with other magic items?

If I give my general a great sword, it decreases his surivivability. Plus, it would mean losing a man and not ending up on exactly 1500 points, which would destroy my mild OCD.

Finally, because of the detachments of Crossbows, there is an even split between them and Handgunners, giving me the balance of range and armour piercing.

Makarion
30-01-2009, 07:22
Reverse the crossbows and handguns - since the crossbows have more range, they are best used as independant units (i.e., behind your infantry blocks on a hill, or shooting through a gap).

Sadly, the BSB cannot have any banner at all if he has other magic gear.

maze ironheart
30-01-2009, 10:29
I would say it's a good list but the BSB can't have a magic weapon and a magic banner I would say give him fullplate armour and a barded steed and take a magic banner.The only other problom is space in your deployment which might hurt your army having so much detactments I am just saying this as some of my opponents use alot of terrain especially when they see alot of shooting and may put terrain in the most annoying areas making harder to see.I would drop the crossbowmen on your handgunners and mortor for some pistoliers as it could help make the enemy be attacked on your terms and use left over points for a helstorm which is mucher better then the mortor.I say this cause the mortor aloows your opponent his normal armour say which against heavy armoured armys like Chaos,Dwarfs,Brettonians it will have little effect while the helstorm will make it -2 to their armour save.

Dragon Prince of Caledor
30-01-2009, 12:49
Its a good list I suppose. I dont think its a gunline and I also dont think it would be very hard to beat. there isnt anything in there that is even remotely elite ;) I think a unit of twenty five phoenix guard with korhil could literally walk around the table and wipe the entire army :) Just because they can survive the shooting, they're scary, and your winning combat doesnt matter because we arent running. Thats just an example of some of the obstacles you may face :) Good luck!

Kalec
30-01-2009, 13:16
Drop the free company detachments for detachments of 9 swordsmen.

Give your general the armor of meteoric iron, and put your BSB on a warhorse. He really needs to save.

Gaius Marius
30-01-2009, 16:23
Since the list lacks punch in HTH you could try Halberds as detachments, or swordsmen who will survive better, but the free company are just deadment walking.

Nu Fenix
30-01-2009, 17:47
Wow! Alot of replies, so I will comment about each one that I feel deserves commenting on.


Reverse the crossbows and handguns - since the crossbows have more range, they are best used as independant units (i.e., behind your infantry blocks on a hill, or shooting through a gap).

Sadly, the BSB cannot have any banner at all if he has other magic gear.
Would it make a noticeable difference in which way round is the parent and detachment though? At the end of the day, the same amount of firepower is being unleased, isn't it?

And I'll have to rethink the equipment of my BSB. Possibly drop a guy for the Griffon Banner. Or possibly replace the War Banner with Icon of Magnus?


Its a good list I suppose. I dont think its a gunline and I also dont think it would be very hard to beat. there isnt anything in there that is even remotely elite ;) I think a unit of twenty five phoenix guard with korhil could literally walk around the table and wipe the entire army :) Just because they can survive the shooting, they're scary, and your winning combat doesnt matter because we arent running. Thats just an example of some of the obstacles you may face :) Good luck!

But how many points would that unit cost? As if I have it where neither of us run away, then you have more points bogged down? And since I don't know the HE rules at all, what would help them surive the cannons, mortar and 40 normal shots per turn?
Besides, to me, an Empire army isn't about being elite. They use massive amounts of average, and rely on quantity, not quality.


Drop the free company detachments for detachments of 9 swordsmen.

Give your general the armor of meteoric iron, and put your BSB on a warhorse. He really needs to save.

The general has a 2+ save for only 10 points. Paying an extra 15 to make it a 1+ save seems a waste.
Also, as I mentioned in my initial post, I will not use ANY mounts at all. Whilst it may give the BSB a better save, it wouldn't look right with him being the only mount in the army.


Since the list lacks punch in HTH you could try Halberds as detachments, or swordsmen who will survive better, but the free company are just deadment walking.

I have mixed opinion on Halberdiers over Free Company though. Whilst they will would more often, they have half as many attacks against the enemy compared to the Free Company. With 12 attacks from each detachment, so a possible 24 attacks per flank, that could greatly boost my combat result. Would the increased chance of wounding by 1 make up for half the attacks?
I don't want to use Swordsmen as a detachment, as to me they should be the parent unit, just for looks alone.


I would say it's a good list but the BSB can't have a magic weapon and a magic banner I would say give him fullplate armour and a barded steed and take a magic banner.The only other problom is space in your deployment which might hurt your army having so much detactments I am just saying this as some of my opponents use alot of terrain especially when they see alot of shooting and may put terrain in the most annoying areas making harder to see.I would drop the crossbowmen on your handgunners and mortor for some pistoliers as it could help make the enemy be attacked on your terms and use left over points for a helstorm which is mucher better then the mortor.I say this cause the mortor aloows your opponent his normal armour say which against heavy armoured armys like Chaos,Dwarfs,Brettonians it will have little effect while the helstorm will make it -2 to their armour save.

If the opponent is basing the amount of terrain we use solely on my army, then the main problem is with them as a person. The terrain should be decided and laid out regardless of what armies are used, and then once it is agreed on by both players, rolled for as normal. Besides, the more terrain there is, the more it slows them down as well.
However, until I get round to playing, I have no idea how much terrain my local store has, nor how hard/easy it will be to deploy it all.
In regards to the Helstorm, having only one seems ineffective, as getting to go where I want seems much harder when compared to a mortar or cannon. Whilst the extra damage is good, the fact a mortar is cheap and handy against at least half the armies out there [in my mind] makes up for its low power.

Makarion
31-01-2009, 05:41
What I meant was to give a handgun detachment to the swordsmen, and to keep the crossbows as a regular unit behind your lines.