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Flying Dutchman
29-01-2009, 22:43
Hi,i really need your help on deciding wich weapon i am going to give my high elf prince.
Let me explain i have bought the high elf prince/noble set and i want to make a high elf prince on barded steed to go with a silver helm unit (10 with full command).
Before i assemble the model i need to figure out what is the best all round weapon for him (he will go up against Empire,O&G,VC,Dwarfs and WoC)
I am down to 4 options :
A: Lance + HA/DA,Ench Shld,Vambraces of Defence,Barded Steed

B: Sword of Might + HA/DA,Ench Shld,Vambraces of Defence,Barded Steed

C: Blade of Sea gold + HA/DA,Shld,Vambraces of Defence,Barded Steed

D: Star Lance + HA/DA,Shld,Vambraces of Defence,Barded Steed

Wich of the above is the best for an allround fighter prince,please choose one of the above (no Dragon advice please),thanks

Slayerthane
29-01-2009, 23:15
I don't have any experiences with playing high elves myself, but I am starting to assemble an army and I have also been playing around with options for a prince. I'm not sure if this is possible and I have checked the rule book and believe they took out the restriction for not being able to cast spells while wearing armor. Have you ever thought about giving your prince Radiant Gem, and the item that lets you pick spells? You could give him the Flaming Sword of Rhuin spell and cast that and you would have enough points left over to get guardian phoenix (5+ ward save). Then give him heavy armor,barded steed and a shield and now you have a 1+ armor save, 5+ ward save, str 7, 5 attack prince who hit's on 2+.

I have also thought Temakador's gauntlets could be a good item, since it add's +1 to your armor save and gives a 5+ ward save against any attacks greater than str4. So for a prince you could give him temakadors gauntlets, armor, barded steed and a halberd for a 2+ armor save, 5+ ward save against str4 or higher attacks and 4 str5 attacks. This also means you 70pts left of items you could decide on. I was planning on running mine with Radiant Gem and a dispel scroll to add magic defense and combat versatility.

Just some thoughts that come to mind after reading your post.

One of the things I've noticed about HE weapon choices is there aren't any really good weapons for close combat like with other armies so that's why I thought of the flaming sword of rhuin. There aren't any weapons that increase strength of the character except sword of might and star lance which is only on the first turn.

Flying Dutchman
29-01-2009, 23:34
Hi,thanks for answering my post,i know this option is available,but the spell can be disspelled leaving the prince with nothing and i don't want to take chances on that happening.
By the way i agree with your statement that the magic items don't really fulfill an alround bonus effect it's either no armour save but low strength (so no good against high toughness armies),or better strength but low armour save modifier (not good against heavy armoured armies) and when they have both it is only usefull on the charge (lance and star lance) but no good after that.
The better option looks like the Sword of Might (A bit higher strength and a bit higher armour save modifier nothing spectacular but better than nothing,i wish we had something like the empire sword of power +2 strength)

WhiteKnight
29-01-2009, 23:45
Your prince should be a killy as possible. I usually put mine on a dragon or griffon but that's my preference. Try giving him Vambraces of Defence, Enchanted shield, and the radiant gem. Then give him the one spell "I think in Lore of Shadows" that allows more movement. That silver helms unit should be in combat ASAP.

stripsteak
29-01-2009, 23:55
There is no longer a restriction on armour and casting. it's just that most models that can cast can not take armour.

weapon choices there isn't much for combat besides the starlance.

I'd probably run D, or B.

with D you are getting S7 chariot busting no armour save charge while still having a 2+ rerolling armour save.
with B you get S5 all the time, with a 1+ rerolling armour save

A is not bad. S6 charge with good armour, but i like haveing my lords with magic attacks just incase you hit against people with one of those only harmed by magic affects.
C the sword is kinda overpriced imo. i'd rather just have the star lance.

marv335
30-01-2009, 00:09
I'd go with D
Best kill-power with nice strong defence.

Flying Dutchman
30-01-2009, 00:11
Hi,Stripstreak those are the 2 choices (B or D) i am strugling with ,but which one?, i can only build the model once.

Slayerthane
30-01-2009, 00:28
I had a typo in there, the combo with the flaming sword I think would only have a 2+ armor save. Since I haven't tried the flaming sword combo I'm not sure how well it would work but the thinking was that if you have 2 level 2s already and they cast with all their PD the first turn and you have a couple bound items, your opponent will focus on dispelling those and not the flaming sword since your prince isn't in combat. You should be able to get that spell off and then forget about it and hope your opponent does too. Then he finds out its a remains in play spell when you charge his chaos knights and kill 3 with the prince. That was the theory anyway, not sure if anyone else has any practice with this but HE are the only army where a CC character can also cast spells and this takes advantage of that.

In your situation I'd probably go with starlance and try to kill as many in the first turn. I personally would keep the sword of might for a BSB or noble.

Tarian
30-01-2009, 00:41
Here's how I run my Lord:

Star Lance
Helm of Fortune
Talisman of Saphery

You have 4 S7 Negate armor hits on the charge, and a 1+ rerollable armor save. Oh, and you negate magic weapons in btb contact also. ;)

garythewargamer
30-01-2009, 02:42
have you thought about the armour of Heros. My daughters army is heavy on magic but use one hero with dragon princes. Armour of heros works very good against low leadership armies and challenges with the high elf always getting first strike. It is cheaper than the other armours and not as good also.
garythewargamer@yahoo.com
gary welch

Tarian
30-01-2009, 02:43
The problem I have with the Armor of Heroes is that anything worth worrying about getting hit with probably has a large leadership value too. Chaos Lords, Dwarf Lords... pretty much any Lord...

Lazarus15
30-01-2009, 03:34
I run mine on a dragon, but the build wouldn't change on the steed.

-Star Lance, Vambrances of Defense, Dragon Armor, Shield, Halberd.

Halberd in case they find themselves out of place, and get charged.....your prince still has S5 and a 3+ armor save. If charging or you think you might be in combat for more turns than one, the halberd also helps.
Then against the heavier armored foes, you have the S. Lance.

D-Archangel
30-01-2009, 11:13
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that as long as you have a magic weapon, you can't use a mundane one. so, as long as you give your lord a Star Lance, you're stuck with it, and have to use it even if you get charged.

Condottiere
30-01-2009, 12:05
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that as long as you have a magic weapon, you can't use a mundane one. so, as long as you give your lord a Star Lance, you're stuck with it, and have to use it even if you get charged.That would be true, until the Dragon drops dead.

Flying Dutchman
30-01-2009, 13:00
Hi,guys thanks for helping me out,like i said in my original post i am looking for an optimal build for a prince mounted on a steed no dragons,eagles etc.
so i am down to 2 choices either the star lance wich is great if you charge but if you get charged,challenged or have to fight in a subsequent round of cc it has no benefits OR the sword of might wich like i said earlier gives you a benefit but a really small one,on the other hand the strength bonus counts in all situations.
Help me make up my mind,thanks all.

Dragon Prince of Caledor
30-01-2009, 13:12
C and D are the best builds in my opinion. Hard hitting and wont die. Depends on what you want him to be good for i suppose. The prince with the star lance is great for charging in an nerfing enemy characters. Both are good for challenges as they wont die... Good luck

Godswildcard
30-01-2009, 13:41
Well, the box comes with a sword in a sheath that you can put on, so I'd say model him with that and the lance. Than you can run either on a case by case basis.

something to keep in mind though (although please correct me if I'm wrong) is that while you won't get the strength bonus from the star lance in CC if you are charged, you will still ignore armor saves.

Flying Dutchman
30-01-2009, 14:58
No the only when charging do you get the ignore armour save rule

garythewargamer
31-01-2009, 00:44
thank you for that insight. with my high elf army i lean heavily on magic vice close combat.

Preacher
31-01-2009, 03:51
The sword of might is always a great choice. It will help the unit chew through infantry rather nicely.

The only "caution" with the star lance is, if you use it, make sure you can break the enemy unit on the charge(really it applies to the Helms in general). So if you use them smart you shouldn't have any problems with the Star Lance. Plus, it looks better on the model I think. And it adds a little versatility to the unit since they can take down characters and chariots.

Just my thoughts.

P.S. Have you thought about just putting a magnet in his shoulder so you can swap out the arm as see you fit. Its really quite an easy thing to do if your careful.

The other option would be to buy another kit and make one with each, paint them slightly different. Then you could proxy/use the one with the sword as Tyrion. If you dont like how the Sword of Might works out for you.

isidril93
31-01-2009, 07:55
Here's how I run my Lord:

Star Lance
Helm of Fortune
Talisman of Saphery

You have 4 S7 Negate armor hits on the charge, and a 1+ rerollable armor save. Oh, and you negate magic weapons in btb contact also. ;)

*cough cough* anti chaos lord *cough cough*

being the fact that the op said he fights chaos this is a good build agaist thse hard chaosy characters

Flying Dutchman
31-01-2009, 12:48
Hi all , first of all thanks for helping me out ,as i read the posts it seems most people prefer the star lance build and it is one of my options but as some of you mentioned the key with the lance is breaking the enemy in the first round and that is one of my problem areas.
If the charge does not break the enemy and you are stuck for a second round of fighting the prince does not support the silver helms very well,while with one of the swords (sword of might or blade of seagold) and his ASF he can help with taking out enemy models before they can strike ,seeing that the silver helms only have strength 3 in the second round of fighting they will not score many casualties.
So lets say i will go with a sword what would be the best choice (rules wise not points wise) the Sword of Might or the Blade of Seagold take in account he will be fighting
Empire,O&G,VC,Dwarfs and WoC
Once again thanks and keep the insights coming.

Tarian
31-01-2009, 16:26
*cough cough* anti chaos lord *cough cough*

being the fact that the op said he fights chaos this is a good build agaist thse hard chaosy characters

Strangely enough, this is how I run my Lord against *all* armies. It's good against Dwarves w/ their big runic weapons, etc. In fact, when mounting him on a dragon, Helm of Fortune -> Armour of Caledor and done. (Protects the dragon from things like Runefange or that Frost Sword VC has.)

isidril93
31-01-2009, 20:09
hmmm...didnt read the part of dwarves, i guess it is excellent against really tooled up character with lovely magic weapons and great armour

Tarian
01-02-2009, 17:04
I'd rather them hit my magic weapon immune Lord with his shiny rerollable armor than my knights. Saved my unit against Kurt Helborg a few times, that's for sure.

grhino
01-02-2009, 17:15
I'd go for the Star Lance: it's the best pick to take out characters: ignoring armour saves and S7 will even make a Chaos Lord holding its breath when you roll for 'to hit'. Also, the nasiest enemies you want to take out with this unit will probably be heavy cav. Use speed to your afvantage.

Also: Temakador's Gaunlets are an amazing item! Should consider it!

Nice to see that some people still consider Silver Helms. I use them as well (although less than I used to) but most people simply for killy killy dragon princes and swordmasters. Like to see other HE players going for the solid basic choices as well. Personally: I love using lots of spearmen! They rock!

WhiteKnight
01-02-2009, 17:43
just so you know Tarian, helm of fortune and armor of caledor doesn't really help. IT still only gives you a 2+ save thats rerollable. So you kinda just wasted 25 points.

I'm planning on taking on archaon with my unit of 10 silver helms with a prince having null stone. I'll laugh when he says "I have a 3+ ward" and I just say, Nope.

grhino
01-02-2009, 18:01
Really think you can kill archaon using the Null Stone? Might be the best item in the game against him, but I still wonder if it would fly... He's got 4 wounds and T5, while you can have S6 with a lance at most. Also, you're -1 to hit against him.

Better get the best armour save you can against him, because in a challnge he still has 5 S5 attacks and Dorghar will also launch another 3 S5 attacks against you. Your Prince probably won't last after he has failed to kill archaon!

If they had kept the Honours thing, you'd be able to at least have a Killing Blow chance against him...

Flying Dutchman
01-02-2009, 18:58
Hi guys,after considering all of your input i decided to build my prince as follows ;
Star Lance,Dragon Armour,Shield,Vambraces of Defence on a Barded Elven Steed.

Thanks for helping me.

Tarian
01-02-2009, 19:54
just so you know Tarian, helm of fortune and armor of caledor doesn't really help. IT still only gives you a 2+ save thats rerollable. So you kinda just wasted 25 points.

I'm planning on taking on archaon with my unit of 10 silver helms with a prince having null stone. I'll laugh when he says "I have a 3+ ward" and I just say, Nope.

Ah, I was saying I switch the Helm of Fortune FOR the Armor of Caledor.

(Can't take 2 magic armor, and don't have the points.)

The Dragon doesn't give you mounted/barded bonus, so you need a better armor save.

innerwolf
01-02-2009, 19:57
Edited for wrong statement.

Tarian
01-02-2009, 19:58
*Edited for an edit* :D