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Anton
31-01-2009, 18:44
Does anyone know what will happen with the armies of the Inquisition? Will they get new, separate codice (Witch Hunters, Daemon Hunters and Alien Hunters), a single shared codex or no codex at all?

I am thinking of starting 40k and my decision is affected by whether the Inquisition will be continued or not.

ZOMGBBQ
31-01-2009, 18:48
I am thinking of starting 40k and my decision is affected by whether the Inquisition will be continued or not.

If your gonna wait for a new Inquisition codex/models, you wont be playing 40k for a loooong time.

laudarkul
31-01-2009, 19:13
Some rumors are putting the =][= Codex next year (Daemon and Witch hunters in one big codex).

Crowned
31-01-2009, 19:39
afaik both Witch Hunters and Daemonhunters didn't sell incredibly well, and from that you could garner a lot of the sales were from people allying them to other armies.

Based on this, the whole Inquisition Codex (A combined DH/WH Codex) rumour does look a lot more likely than separate ones. I do doubt they'll discontinue either/both though, since it's not like they weren't successful at all.

O&G'sRule
31-01-2009, 22:37
The inquisition are a huge part of the fluff of the imperium, they have been about since at least the 2nd ed (when I 1st played) so I can't see them going anywhere.

Akrim
31-01-2009, 23:21
The original plan in 4th ed was for 3 Ordos codexes (Witch Hunters, Demon Hunters, Xenos Hunters). Xenos never made it (sorta covered by FW with the Red Scorpions).

Presently most of the GW design/development people who concieved this plan are now gone.

I could see the forces of the Inquistion being combined into one book. But it could take a while before they get to it...unfortunate since DHs and WHs are desperately in need of update. Moreso after the new IG codex comes out.

IAMNOTHERE
31-01-2009, 23:39
However both the DH and WH codex got updated when the new SM codex came out. They'll get a further update when the new IG dex arrives.

They can standalone but have huge options for allying in units from these codi.

Voss
31-01-2009, 23:43
Grey Knights and Sisters could easily be separate armies an actually work well. GK need to shed a few useless special rules in exchange for a points drop and get some more things, but they're viable.

Deathwatch pretty much got eaten by Sternguard veterans in the latest SM codex (the special ammo rounds were pretty much their entire 'thing' in the deathwatch article published in WD some years ago). Without it, they are almost identical to 'generic space marines' anyway, and I'd rather not see another 'slightly variant SM codex' in any case.

The Inquisitors themselves... are fairly not good. There are a few tricks you can pull off, but... eh. Its still essentially a basic human squad with a page full of annoying special rules.

Allies will probably go away in a new inquisition book (given the aversion to cross-book armies in current design). And most of the 'Inquisition' units aren't. Assassins are their own orders, the Ecclesiarchy has claim to any non-sisters, non-assassin models beyond the Inquisitors themselves in the WH book, and the Inquisition retinues are frankly a mess.

If Inquisitors actually do show up in the new Guard codex (not sure I believe that particular rumour, but it has been mentioned), I expect the replacement for Inquisition to be Codex(es) Grey Knights/Sisters of Battle, as either one book with two lists or two separate books.

Personally, I think they have to rebuild the whole mess from the ground up, hopefully in a way that means the models will be present somewhere (preferably somewhere that makes sense). I also suspect that several people on the dev team are cursing the fact that they got saddled with them as an army in the first place.

There are hints that something may happen next year (see the grey knight plastics rumour thread), but that isn't certain, but buying in at this point may be a mistake, because I seriously doubt that minor changes and clarifications will ensue.

Axel
01-02-2009, 00:35
...unfortunate since DHs and WHs are desperately in need of update. Moreso after the new IG codex comes out.

I have to disagree.

Grey Knights were in need of an update since their release, but only because they are slightly overcosted. SoB are even a bit more viable then they were in 4th edition, offering two effective builds with hordes of infantry or the Rhino rush. There are other armies that need an update far more then the Inquisition.

Magelite
01-02-2009, 00:44
To me, it would be a wise idea if Sisters of battle got their own dex with perhaps more emphasis on their ties to the Ecclesiarchy, focusing on zealous hordes and whatnot. The grey knights, assassins, and inquisitors should be ain an 'Inquisition' codex that would be designed to work as add-ons with other Imperial factions.

ZOMGBBQ
01-02-2009, 01:21
To me, it would be a wise idea if Sisters of battle got their own dex with perhaps more emphasis on their ties to the Ecclesiarchy, focusing on zealous hordes and whatnot. The grey knights, assassins, and inquisitors should be ain an 'Inquisition' codex that would be designed to work as add-ons with other Imperial factions.

As much as I'd like to see that, I cannot see GW doing that. Their current policy is to not mix up codex's outside of Apocalypse :cries:

505
01-02-2009, 02:13
it will be a while since the inquisition coedexs didnt sell well it wil be a while

though in my opinion if they had plastics they would have sold better. I want to do both a WH and a GK army but not willing ot pay for that many metals. (and I know 3 others willing to do one of them but wont buy all the metal

Lionsbane
01-02-2009, 02:28
Actually I think the Inquisition should move to the relevant codexs as actual entries and be removed as a seperate army. Then Codex: Grey Knights and Codex: Sisters of Battle could be made or not made on their own merits. Perfect example, the rumor of the Inquisitor Lord in the upcoming IG codex.

starlight
01-02-2009, 02:42
Sadly (and to my bemusement) all I've heard is whispers about separate books. :(

It would make sense (to me) to do a single Codex: Ordos, but it seems it is not to be...for now...:(

loveless
01-02-2009, 02:47
I don't mind if they combine them or keep them separate or go back to letting the Sisters be separate like back in the old days. (Heck, just look at my sig.)

I doubt we'd see them soon - way too many Imperial codices lately - but we'll definitely see them eventually - once they know what to do with them.

I mean, come on, the Sisters have always been cool. They even got the cover to Dawn of War: Soulstorm (and have hilariously zealous and fanatic story bits in the campaign).

Axel
01-02-2009, 09:31
In a perfect world we would see:
- the "Codex Grey Knights" (when has GW ever missed the chance to give a chapter its own codex),
- the "Codex Adptus Sororita", including other forces of the Ecclesiarchy,
- the "Codex Inquisition" with just the core stuff, the Adeptus Arbites, Officio Assassinorum and links to the other Imperial forces
and then, since I just lost contact with reality anyway,
- the "Codex Adeptus Mechanicus".

These would finally cover the forces of the Imperium. Well, apart from the Imperial Navy and the PDFs.

march10k
01-02-2009, 10:37
Actually I think the Inquisition should move to the relevant codexs as actual entries and be removed as a seperate army. Then Codex: Grey Knights and Codex: Sisters of Battle could be made or not made on their own merits. Perfect example, the rumor of the Inquisitor Lord in the upcoming IG codex.

Agreed! Go back to C:GK and C:SoB. Inquisitors really can empress any imperial force, so naming a codex after an ordo is retarded. Besides which, GK could pass for "forces of the inquisition," but SoB are most definitely "forces of the ecclesiarchy"...who occasionally work for an inquisitor in the same capacity that IG or SM would.


Sadly (and to my bemusement) all I've heard is whispers about separate books.

It would make sense (to me) to do a single Codex: Ordos, but it seems it is not to be...for now...

Do a Codex Ordos if you must, but leave the sisters out of it. THEY AREN'T PART OF THE INQUISITION!!!!:wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf:

40kdhs
01-02-2009, 18:16
Do a Codex Ordos if you must, but leave the sisters out of it. THEY AREN'T PART OF THE INQUISITION!!!!:wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf:

GKs only attach to Inquisition. No, we aren't part of the I either because we are military attache.

Laser guided fanatic
01-02-2009, 18:20
Just do a codex imperium with marine, guard, GK, inquisition, SoB etc




and the evil carnifex

Inquisitor_Tolheim
01-02-2009, 18:24
GKs only attach to Inquisition. No, we aren't part of the I either because we are military attache.

But the Grey Knights are specifically the militant arm of the Ordo Malleus. The Sisters of Battle are an entirely separate force that got lumped in with the Ordo Hereticus for some unknowable reason.



Re: The future of the Inquisition
In a perfect world we would see:
- the "Codex Grey Knights" (when has GW ever missed the chance to give a chapter its own codex),
- the "Codex Adptus Sororita", including other forces of the Ecclesiarchy,
- the "Codex Inquisition" with just the core stuff, the Adeptus Arbites, Officio Assassinorum and links to the other Imperial forces
and then, since I just lost contact with reality anyway,
- the "Codex Adeptus Mechanicus".

Yes please.

IAMNOTHERE
01-02-2009, 18:40
Much as I love my pure GK force, as an Inquisition army I fail.

I'd love to see an inquisition army with GK for elites/FA, Sisters as FA/HS and enough other choices to make a decent non GK/sisters list.

That's where the current codei fail, the non Inq choices are so much better and charecterful than IST. The DH 'dex says you can't even take some of the units if you're a radical.

I'd like to see a proper freakshow codex with IST and Arbites for troops (give Arbites a transport and scout) and then the rest added in. A proper use of assassins - not worth a KP as their job is to die. Beefed up penitent engines, arcos, daemon hosts etc.

For a decent Inq codex we need to move away from GK and sisters otherwise these will dominate.

40kdhs
01-02-2009, 18:42
But the Grey Knights are specifically the militant arm of the Ordo Malleus.


We are not under the jurisdiction of I because we CAN refuse their order if we want and they will do nothing about it. Yes, we are that good.:D

Inquisitor_Tolheim
01-02-2009, 18:58
Much as I love my pure GK force, as an Inquisition army I fail.

I'd love to see an inquisition army with GK for elites/FA, Sisters as FA/HS and enough other choices to make a decent non GK/sisters list.

That's where the current codei fail, the non Inq choices are so much better and charecterful than IST. The DH 'dex says you can't even take some of the units if you're a radical.

I'd like to see a proper freakshow codex with IST and Arbites for troops (give Arbites a transport and scout) and then the rest added in. A proper use of assassins - not worth a KP as their job is to die. Beefed up penitent engines, arcos, daemon hosts etc.

For a decent Inq codex we need to move away from GK and sisters otherwise these will dominate.

I actually wrote up an Inquisition/Arbites codex a while back and I agree 100% that they would be the perfect combination. Arbites could use Repressors for transports (giving GW another model to sell us) Bikes for FA, etc., all without stepping on the toes of the inquisitorial forces.

Another option is to seperate out the Grey Knights and Sisters of Battle, then release a PDF mini-codex for inquisitors that includes some of the more flamboyant options Inquisitors can take (i.e. assassins) and some induction rules. If only an Inquisitor Lord is allowed to induct from other imperial forces, then he or she will finally be useful when compared with a Cannoness or Grand Master.


We are not under the jurisdiction of I because we CAN refuse their order if we want and they will do nothing about it.

Technically yes, although that honestly describes every space marine chapter. They go along with the Inquisition (or not, in some cases) because they decide they want to. The inquisition has never started a formal inquest against the Grey Knights because frankly the Grey Knights ARE the Inquisition. A Grey Knight Grand Master is always present in the Inner Conclave of the Inquisition. A Force of Grey Knights refusing to take part in an inquisitorial action would basically be going against one of their own Grand Masters.

The thing to remember is that and Inquisitor doesn't exactly pick up a phone and dial 1-800-GRY-KNGT and casually order a squad of Demon killing experts. Basically the inquisitor submits a report to the nearest Inquisitorial Fortress stating that "it's hit the fan". The Grey Knights are then dispatched from Titan in response to the report. At no point does the Inquisitor order the Grey Knights around, because the Grey Knights are at least his equals. He advises, then gets out of the way and lets the experts do their job.

Saying the Grey Knights aren't part of the Inquisition is like saying a corporate sales associate isn't part of a company because he doesn't take orders from the guys in R&D. They are two different arms of the same organization.

Axel
01-02-2009, 23:10
Officially the Grey Knights are an independent Order of the Space Marines. That they usually comply with requests by the Ordo Malleus and get preferred treatment by the Imperium is true. But they are not part of the Inquisition. They COULD say no - there is no official chain of command.

The Adeptus Sororita, on the other hand, is subject to the Ecclesiarchy, so if the Church says "jump", the Sororitas have to jump. They are also not part of the Inquisition, though.

loveless
02-02-2009, 04:51
The Adeptus Sororita, on the other hand, is subject to the Ecclesiarchy, so if the Church says "jump", the Sororitas have to jump. They are also not part of the Inquisition, though.

You know...I would fully support a Codex: Ecclesiarchy instead of just a Codex: Sisters of Battle. But then we should really do all the branches of the Imperium :p

ZOMGBBQ
02-02-2009, 04:53
The Adeptus Sororita, on the other hand, is subject to the Ecclesiarchy, so if the Church says "jump", the Sororitas have to jump. They are also not part of the Inquisition, though.

Hmm, Jumping Battle Nuns....

*Leaves thread before being made to*

Reinholt
02-02-2009, 05:41
Conversely, given the current trend GW is demonstrating with codices, if they follow the format, I would expect something like this:

- Sisters, GKs, and "Inquisition" (stormtroopers, assassins, maybe inducted guard of the basic variety or something mildly specific to the inquisition) all in the same list.

- That the units that can count as troops might be dictated by which HQ choices you take (GK hero unlocks GKs as troops, Canoness unlocks sisters as troops, Inquisitor unlocks guard as troops, etc).

- That elites, heavy support, and fast attack might be bound to similar restrictions based on what you are using for troops, but would be the way to include the "allied" units into a main list for another force (as in, sisters troops might still take GKs as elites, etc).

If the "let's get everything in one codex" motif continues, I can see this kind of format, and maybe with a few special characters modifying things further. Ironically, this format might make the most sense for an Inquisition codex compared to some of the others, as there are a staggering variety of Inquisitors and forces that can be tapped by them according to the background material. It would give most players the flexibility to use their own models or something new pretty quickly as well.

And, depending on how it is done, a plastic set for GKs and basic sisters might be all that is needed in terms of heavy lifting for models, as the rest might come from other books already updated or already exist.

In short - it could be done in a clever way by GW. I hope it is.

Born Again
02-02-2009, 05:46
You know...I would fully support a Codex: Ecclesiarchy instead of just a Codex: Sisters of Battle. But then we should really do all the branches of the Imperium :p

Hey, if that's a reason to finally get a Codex: Adeptus Mechanicus, I'm all for it!

Axel
02-02-2009, 08:32
You know...I would fully support a Codex: Ecclesiarchy instead of just a Codex: Sisters of Battle. But then we should really do all the branches of the Imperium :p

Well, since the Ecclesiarchy is (officially) not allowed to have men under arms, the list of other units is not long. But you are right, Ecclesiarchy makes more sense, with the option to build a pure SOB force. They could add the buildup for a crusade (which the church can declare on its own) using PDFs (perhaps using the IG codex), zealots and of course ministry assistance in the person of priests and cardinals (and including penitent engines and arcoflagellants). Probably a good project for a "small" codex to cover the existing miniatures. If they just reprice some units and add zealots and church members they could almost use the existing codex.



Hey, if that's a reason to finally get a Codex: Adeptus Mechanicus, I'm all for it!

Yep. AM is probably the most expected Codex that was never released. But that one needs a lot more work then Ecclesiarchy or Inquisition. They should do that one in cooperation with ForgeWorld.

ThousandPlateaus
02-02-2009, 08:39
Yep. AM is probably the most expected Codex that was never released. But that one needs a lot more work then Ecclesiarchy or Inquisition. They should do that one in cooperation with ForgeWorld.

I thought this was already the case in a forthcoming IA book?

King Vyper
02-02-2009, 12:12
In a perfect world we would see:
- the "Codex Grey Knights" (when has GW ever missed the chance to give a chapter its own codex),
- the "Codex Adptus Sororita", including other forces of the Ecclesiarchy,
- the "Codex Inquisition" with just the core stuff, the Adeptus Arbites, Officio Assassinorum and links to the other Imperial forces
and then, since I just lost contact with reality anyway,
- the "Codex Adeptus Mechanicus".

These would finally cover the forces of the Imperium. Well, apart from the Imperial Navy and the PDFs.

Grey Knights would be part of the Inquisition Codex I think not seperate.

Adeptus Arbites is the one who should have its own Codex. They are bigger then the entire Inquisition & Adeptus Sororita. They have Chapter Houses on every Imperial Planet, there own space fleet and there own seat on the Council of Terra.

So I think it should be:

Codex Adeptus Sororita
Codex Adeptus Mechanicus
Codex Adeptus Arbites
Codex Inquisition

Plus possible a Codex: Rogue Trader maybe.

thenamelessdead
02-02-2009, 12:27
I think inquisitors etc should just be incorporated into the Imperial Guard list myself, and then maybe rename it. I don't know how they can justify so many Imperial codices.

thenamelessdead
02-02-2009, 12:29
I'd like to see a proper freakshow codex with IST and Arbites for troops (give Arbites a transport and scout) and then the rest added in. A proper use of assassins - not worth a KP as their job is to die. Beefed up penitent engines, arcos, daemon hosts etc.

Could this be the answer for squat fans?!

Inquisitor Lord Graenis
02-02-2009, 12:45
don't mention the S word :P, anyway, the Demagurg (or whatever their called) tau allies are suposedly the come-back of the squats done properly.

captainramoz
02-02-2009, 12:48
In a perfect world we would see:
- the "Codex Grey Knights" (when has GW ever missed the chance to give a chapter its own codex),
- the "Codex Adptus Sororita", including other forces of the Ecclesiarchy,
- the "Codex Inquisition" with just the core stuff, the Adeptus Arbites, Officio Assassinorum and links to the other Imperial forces
and then, since I just lost contact with reality anyway,
- the "Codex Adeptus Mechanicus".

These would finally cover the forces of the Imperium. Well, apart from the Imperial Navy and the PDFs.
and codex assasins :p

HsojVvad
02-02-2009, 13:46
I am thinking of starting 40k and my decision is affected by whether the Inquisition will be continued or not.

Why does this affect your decision? Do you want to start them, but think they might be discontinued?

Nobody knows what is going to happen with them. I can add my self in there for not starting them because it' too expensive money wise to start collecting with everything being in metal. If it was plastic I would have had sisters and GK in my collection as well.

But if they will contine, and be in one codex, or seperate, nobody knows anything, just rumours and guessing. And I believe the rumours is from guessing.

Magelite
02-02-2009, 13:56
and codex assasins :p

Not to mention Codex: Custodians, Codex: Sisters of Silence, Codex: Navigator Houses, Codex: PDF, and Codex: Rogue traders.

Artein
02-02-2009, 14:54
Just one thing....
It's NOT Adeptus Sororita. Adeptus is for males, like Adeptus Astartes, Adeptus Mechanicum. Sisters of Battle are females, they are ADEPTA SORORITAS.

And to add one other thing....
Grey Knights are Chamber Militiant of Ordo Malleus.
Sisters of Battle are Chamber Militiant of Ordo Hereticus.
Deathwatch is Chamber Militiant of Ordo Xenos.
All of them are part of Inquisition.

loveless
02-02-2009, 15:07
Just one thing....
It's NOT Adeptus Sororita. Adeptus is for males, like Adeptus Astartes, Adeptus Mechanicum. Sisters of Battle are females, they are ADEPTA SORORITAS.

Oh, I always love it when someone corrects the name of the girls. I tend to just ignore the error, but Adepta (besides being correct) sounds much cooler.


And to add one other thing....
Grey Knights are Chamber Militiant of Ordo Malleus.
Sisters of Battle are Chamber Militiant of Ordo Hereticus.
Deathwatch is Chamber Militiant of Ordo Xenos.
All of them are part of Inquisition.

While true, there are...other things, as well.
Meaning: The Sisters are the militant wing of the Ecclesiarchy.
The Deathwatch can essentially be used by Codex Space Marines.

I could see them throwing Deathwatch and Grey Knights in the same book and putting the Sororitas in a separate book. I think all three branches would be a bit much for one book (in order to appease everyone).

Deathwatch is typically in kill team form, yes? And the Grey Knights don't show up en masse very often. I can see lumping them together in one Inquisition book.

The Sisters are a bit larger - probably just large enough to warrant their own book.

Ah well, time will tell.

King Vyper
02-02-2009, 17:13
Just one thing....
It's NOT Adeptus Sororita. Adeptus is for males, like Adeptus Astartes, Adeptus Mechanicum. Sisters of Battle are females, they are ADEPTA SORORITAS.

And to add one other thing....
Grey Knights are Chamber Militiant of Ordo Malleus.
Sisters of Battle are Chamber Militiant of Ordo Hereticus.
Deathwatch is Chamber Militiant of Ordo Xenos.
All of them are part of Inquisition.

If done that way The Codex:Inquistion book is going to be as big as the Codex: Space Marine. I likey!:D

Following Artein post

Codex: Inquisition - (Ordo Malleus, Ordo Hereticus & Ordo Xenos)
Codex: Arbites - (Planetary and Fleet Based Precincts)
Codex: Mechanicus - (ROBOTS!)

40kdhs
02-02-2009, 18:19
Saying the Grey Knights aren't part of the Inquisition is like saying a corporate sales associate isn't part of a company because he doesn't take orders from the guys in R&D. They are two different arms of the same organization.

Just because GKs work for the I, it doesn't mean that we are a part of the I. SM and IG work for the big I too but nobody considers them to be a part of the I.

Nobody supposes to know us and having an inquisition will provide us a good cover.

Inquisitor Lord Graenis
02-02-2009, 19:29
SM's and IG don't work for the I they are forced to work for the I (apart from maybe space marines)

and Kill teams are the most common, but I also see there being normal squads of Deathwatch, just because I doubt that the entire militant wing would be special elite types.

loveless
02-02-2009, 19:50
Just because GKs work for the I, it doesn't mean that we are a part of the I. SM and IG work for the big I too but nobody considers them to be a part of the I.

Nobody supposes to know us and having an inquisition will provide us a good cover.

Well...the Inquisition doesn't seem to tell Marines what to do, but they do ask. Case in point - the =I= requests that other chapters keep an eye on the Relictors, but doesn't command it. The exception would be the Exorcists, but they were expressly created by the =I= as an attempt to make a new breed of Daemonhunter.

Imperial Guard just get inducted. It's probably more common for an Inquisitor to make use of the Guard than to use one of the Chambers Militant, really - especially if the s*** hits the fan during an investigation and there's no time to wait for the Sisters/GK/DW to show up.

Finally, a question:

Is there a background example of the Grey Knights working independently of the Ordo Malleus?

Astraeos
02-02-2009, 21:31
Not sure if the GK have operated by themselves, but they must have at least once I 'spose.

Codex Ecclesiarchy can probably be done, it's something I've been thinking of recently.

I know they're forbidden to keep men under arms, but the Frateris Militia chose to go to war bringing their own stuff with them. They're free to fight if they wanna, they just won't be equipped or encouraged to by the Ecclesiarchy.

The Codex may have something like this-

HQ-
Canoness
Palatine
Celestian Retinue
Confessor
Preachers? (or should they be an option in the troops section?)

Elites-
Celestians (perhaps an option for artificier armour?)
Repentia
Arco Flaggellants
Missionary (like a Techmarine can be fielded as a single model)

Troops-
Battle sisters
Battle Sister novices
Frateris Militia/Zealots
Rhino and Immolator as dedicated transports.

Fast Attack-
Dominions
Seraphim
Bike mounted sister/celestians (like vanguard are veterans but are in FA rather than Elites)
Mounted Frateris Militia

Heavy support-
Retributors
Immolator
Exorcist
Penitent Engines
Puritan (like an immolator with sponsons rather than troop carrying space, bit like a predator)
Land Raider Trinity (like the redeemer, only replace assault cannons with heavy bolters and add a pintle mounted multi-melta)

I separated the priests as in the original SoB codex, they were all different things and I'd like to see that restored. And there was the option to mount some non-sisters on horses as long as you had your opponents consent. Ok I know this isn't a wishlist thread, I'm just putting up an example of how an Ecclesiarch codex could be done.

40kdhs
02-02-2009, 21:48
Finally, a question:

Is there a background example of the Grey Knights working independently of the Ordo Malleus?

I would think so but it's classified information because GK organization were created before Ordo Malleus.

Ordo Malleus and GKs are 2 different organizations which have the same enemy. The reasons we have Ordo Malleus are we don't want anybody to know about GKs and we want to establish another agency to oversee and control the Imperium. It's just another layer of bureaucracy and political BS.

Ordo Malleus inquisitors are only interested in killing another 'alleged radical' one while GKs are killing real daemons.

40kdhs
02-02-2009, 21:49
If C:GK comes out, i would like to know how many new GK units are there. Otherwise, it's going to be the THINNEST codex in GW history.

loveless
02-02-2009, 21:53
I would think so but it's classified information because GK organization were created before Ordo Malleus.

Ordo Malleus and GKs are 2 different organizations which have the same enemy. The reasons we have Ordo Malleus are we don't want anybody to know about GKs and we want to establish another agency to oversee and control the Imperium. It's just another layer of bureaucracy and political BS.

Ordo Malleus inquisitors are only interested in killing another 'alleged radical' one while GKs are killing real daemons.

I'm not trying to sound like I doubt you or anything, but do you have a reference for that, or is it just your own opinion?

I'm going to have a look through Codex: DH when I get home, but I'm just wondering if there are any other solid sources on the Grey Knights.

Khornies & milk
02-02-2009, 21:58
If C:GK comes out, i would like to know how many new GK units are there. Otherwise, it's going to be the THINNEST codex in GW history.

So long as they don't go overboard and make them too similar to SM's.
GW have a very thin line to walk (imo) to make a pure GK army competitive without resorting to SM-esque units....all that would result in them ruining the GK's.

40kdhs...can't you just edit your original post instead of double-posting ALL the time. It's not like you haven't been around long enough.

40kdhs
02-02-2009, 22:06
I'm not trying to sound like I doubt you or anything, but do you have a reference for that, or is it just your own opinion?

I'm going to have a look through Codex: DH when I get home, but I'm just wondering if there are any other solid sources on the Grey Knights.

If you look in DH codex to see how GKs were created, the Emperor WANTED to create the different kind of warriors to fight chaos. During this period of time, we didn't have Ordo Malleus. That's your hint right there.

loveless
02-02-2009, 22:26
If you look in C: DH, the Emperor WANTED to create the different kind of warriors to fight chaos. That's your hint right there.

...hint to what? That the Grey Knights existed before the Inquisition? Not quite - the Emperor also commanded that the Ordo Malleus be created. EDIT: You edited while I was looking up stuff :p It looks like a potentially brief period of time - they were created after the threat of Chaos became apparent, but before the Emperor was enthroned. Likewise, the Ordo Malleus was created shortly before the Emperor was enthroned.

In my brilliance I had forgotten about Lexicanum.

Grey Knights:
- Founded just before the Second Founding (which I suppose makes them Founding 1.5 :p)
- Homeworld: Titan
- Have the purest of geneseeds - potentially based on the Emperor himself.
- are about 3000 in strength
- After their creation, they were given to the Ordo Malleus as the chamber militant to deal with daemonic incursions (no time frame given between chapter creation and assignment to the Ordo)
- Only the words of a Malleus Grand Master can unleash them
- The Grey Knights are answerable only to the Ordo and the Emperor
- Led by a council of Grand Masters

Ordo Malleus:
- Created by the Emperor prior to him being enthroned
- Basis of Operations: Titan and other moons of Saturn
- Deals with the Threat Without (Daemonic Incursion) and the Threat Within (Inquisitors that have gone rogue is the specific case mentioned in the article - typically, Hereticus deals with the Threat Within).


So, to sum it all up:
- Created at roughly the same time, by the Emperor, for the same purpose.
- Share a base of operations
- Both considered to only have to answer to themselves and the Emperor


------

Alright, I'm going to lean towards GW just putting them in another Codex: Inquisition as opposed to Codex: Grey Knights. Unless there's some literature that shows them operating independently of the Ordo Malleus, I'm not seeing enough information to have them by themselves - especially as one of the heads of Malleus (which I assume includes the Grand Masters of the Grey Knights) has to order them to attack.

They are the very last word in the Malleus arsenal - feared even more than Exterminatus.

Khornies & milk
02-02-2009, 22:38
...
Alright, I'm going to lean towards GW just putting them in another Codex: Inquisition as opposed to Codex: Grey Knights. Unless there's some literature that shows them operating independently of the Ordo Malleus, I'm not seeing enough information to have them by themselves - especially as one of the heads of Malleus (which I assume includes the Grand Masters of the Grey Knights) has to order them to attack.

From what I'm perceiving from various Forums, and from Threads like the IG rumours here on Warseer is that Inquisitors are going to be included in the new IG Codex, and because GW are moving away from having Allied units within a single Codex ala the current DH one, then a C:GK seems to be the way it's heading.

As fluffy as having an Inquisitor leading a GK force is, generally speaking they're pretty crappy and actually weaken a list.

Late 2010 isn't that far off really.

ThousandPlateaus
02-02-2009, 22:46
They should be re-instated in the game as: terminator only, each an alpha psyker, each with nemesis force weapon, each being rock hard, having complex special rules and each costing a ludicrous amount of points.

Have them as the ultimate elite weapon of the Imperium once again: five GK vs. a whole army, please.

loveless
02-02-2009, 22:49
From what I'm perceiving from various Forums, and from Threads like the IG rumours here on Warseer is that Inquisitors are going to be included in the new IG Codex, and because GW are moving away from having Allied units within a single Codex ala the current DH one, then a C:GK seems to be the way it's heading.

As fluffy as having an Inquisitor leading a GK force is, generally speaking they're pretty crappy and actually weaken a list.

Late 2010 isn't that far off really.

Well, it's actually a way to get some "cheap troops" into a Grey Knights list, if a player wanted that option. Like Marines and Scouts - you certainly don't have to take scouts, but you can.

Inquisitorial Storm Troopers would still fit in with the Grey Knights if they're so very intertwined with the Ordo Malleus (Unlikes the Sisters, who are more interlaced with the Ecclesiarchy than they are the Ordo Hereticus).

They could always just "buff up" the Malleus Inquisitors somehow, as well. Honestly, these guys deal with daemons on a regular basis. As much as I love Hereticus, I just think that the Malleus boys and girls would be a bit tougher.

I don't really care either way what they do with the Grey Knights - I'm just trying to find fluff to support separating them from Malleus, when they seem to be one entity.

40kdhs
02-02-2009, 22:57
...hint to what? That the Grey Knights existed before the Inquisition? Not quite - the Emperor also commanded that the Ordo Malleus be created.

I don't know why the Emperor didn't want anybody to know about GKs. Perhaps, he didn't want everybody to know about the existence of daemons and the war going on among his officers.

I don't think that Odor Malleus's main purporse is to kill daemons because they are easily corrupted. The creation of OM is to give GKs the cover and authority to operate without being interfered.

If you look at what Ordo Malleus members have done in term of fighting daemons, they haven't done anything at all because GKs have been doing all the heavy lifting while they accuse each other or study how daemons thing works. The fact that you haven't seen an inquisitor killing a greater daemon by himself tells you something.

A GK GM is a 'liason' officer in the inner circle and he's there to make sure that they have a good working relationship.

loveless
02-02-2009, 23:03
I don't know why the Emperor didn't want anybody to know about GKs. Perhaps, he didn't want everybody to know about the existence of daemons and the war going on among his officers.

I don't think that Odor Malleus's main purporse is to kill daemons because they are easily corrupted. The creation of OM is to give GKs the cover and authority to operate without being interfered.

If you look at what Ordo Malleus members have done in term of fighting daemons, they haven't done anything at all because GKs have been doing all the heavy lifting while they accuse each other or study how daemons thing works. The fact that you haven't seen an inquisitor killing a greater daemon by himself tells you something.

A GK GM is a 'liason' officer in the inner circle and he's there to make sure that they have a good working relationship.

lol
Ok, 40kdhs (40K Daemonhunters?), that's certainly your interpretation of it and I'm not about to change it.

Inquisitor_Tolheim
03-02-2009, 00:04
lol
Ok, 40kdhs (40K Daemonhunters?), that's certainly your interpretation of it and I'm not about to change it.

That was my opinion after my first attempt too.

The more I think about it, the more convinced I am that the best way to rework the inquisition would be with a Codex: Sisters of Battle and a Codex: Inquisition. Include the Grey Knights (and perhaps Deathwatch) in the Inquisition codex and let the Sisters work without the extra weight of unneeded inquisition troops.

Khornies & milk
03-02-2009, 00:32
[QUOTE=loveless;3255310]
Inquisitorial Storm Troopers would still fit in with the Grey Knights if they're so very intertwined with the Ordo Malleus (Unlikes the Sisters, who are more interlaced with the Ecclesiarchy than they are the Ordo Hereticus).

The rumour is that ST's are getting a buff in the IG, so we can assume that the IST's would also receive the same buff (well in a just world)....this would be great.

I had 3 squads of IST's in my DH list, and they did OK, but not great. They're now ST's in my Armoured Battlegroup, and soon to have Valkyries.


I don't really care either way what they do with the Grey Knights - I'm just trying to find fluff to support separating them from Malleus, when they seem to be one entity.

In the end GW will decide how to deal with the Inquisition lists, and they may or may not make a pure GK list a viable and competitive option. Just because a lot of gamers want this option doesn't mean GW will deliver.

Witchhunters are in a hell of a lot of a better position than DH, and a Pure SoB list is very competitive in the current 5th Ed environment, so GW won't have such a hard time of it making a new Codex for them.

SimonL
03-02-2009, 02:54
They should be re-instated in the game as: terminator only, each an alpha psyker, each with nemesis force weapon, each being rock hard, having complex special rules and each costing a ludicrous amount of points.

Have them as the ultimate elite weapon of the Imperium once again: five GK vs. a whole army, please.


YES! I agree wholeheartedly. Well, maybe not about the "Alpha" level bit, as that's far too powerful lol. Maybe 500 points for a squad of 5.

And while they're at it, some variable options for GK models would be nice. They look like they popped out of a Ordos cookie-cutter. The old models were much more unique and individual looking.

loveless
03-02-2009, 02:57
The Grey Knights' power level should be over 9000!

Crowned
03-02-2009, 10:58
That'd stick it in the face of anyone who complains about the price of metal models!

Kettu
03-02-2009, 11:59
@Crowned;

Not really if you collect Sisters of Battle. (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3202148&postcount=32)