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Arbiter7
01-02-2009, 08:25
Hello fellow warseer mongers!


I'm contemplating an Empire army, and I'm trying to compile a list that is somewhat competitive while not becoming cheesy. I haven't played much against empire so I don't really know if this is going to work, but I'd be very grateful for any comments, pointing out weaknesses or possible tweaks. Thanks in advance:


Lord:
General of the Empire (211pts)
[Sword of Power; Full Plate; Shield; Laurels of Victory; Barded Warhorse]

I'm going with the General because I really want him to be able to lend his Ld9 to the rest of the troops. He's tooled up to grant as much as CR as possible to the swordsmen unit he's leading. The mount is there purely for a better armor save, he won't be leaving his swordsmen unit unless he really needs to lend a hand elswhere.

Heroes
Captain BSB |(115pts)
[Captain; BSB; Sword of Might; Armor of Meteoric Iron]

The aim is survivability plus a few CR, that's why the sword's there. I really think a BSB is essential to a footslogging empire army.

Warrior Priest (146pts)
[Great Weapon; VHS; Shield; Barded Warhorse]

This guy leads a 9-man unit of knights. Hatred is good for ensuring some hits and the S5 should ge able to kill most stuff. Also gave him VHS to deal with pesky vampires, thirsters and similar nasties.

Mage (150pts)
[Lvl 2; Dispel Scroll x2]

Scroll Caddy.

Core:
25 Swordsmen FC (175pts)
Det A1: 10 Halberdiers (50pts)
Det A2: 5 Handgunners (40pts)

26 Swordsmen Shields FC (181pts)
Det. B1: 10 Halberdiers (50pts)
Det B2: 5 Handgunners (40pts)

Two main blocks of infantry. The General and BSB go in one of each.

9 Knightly Order (277pts)
Full Command; Standard of Arcane Warding (277pts)

The Priest's hammer unit. Banner for magic defence.

10 Crossbowmen (80pts)

Supporting firepower. Wizard goes in here.

Special:
Cannon (100pts)

Cannon (100pts)

Dragon Killers. Useful in many ways.

20 Greatswords FC (230pts)
Det C1: 5 Handgunners (40pts)

Hold one flank.

6 Outriders (155pts)
Muso; Champion; Hochland Long Rifle (155pts)

Some supporting firepower.


Rare:
Hellblaster Volley Gun (110pts)

Holds the other flank. Intimidation unit. Will fire as less as possible.

Total 2250 exactly, 4 PD, 4 DD, 147 models.

Crube
01-02-2009, 08:48
I like the overall look of the list, but there are a couple of things I personally would look at again (but then arent there always ;))

LIke the Priest in the Knights
Like the swordsmen but in their detachments I personally prefer crossbowmen, and possibly more swordsmen

Not sure on the wizard in the crossbowmen. This is the sort of unit that can easily get picked off, especially by enemy flyers and scouts. Maybe put him in a swordmen unit. This way you'd get to cast a shorter range spell if you roll it?

Not a fan of the Hochland. Personally I prefer Pistoliers for a bit more speed, but...

In the sameway, I'm not a fan of sticking a general on a horse in an infantry unit. Yes he gets an improved save, but can he not then be targetted separately? Not sure on that...

anyway, these are personal things. I'd collect the core of the army, and proxy different units until you get a balance you're happy with.

innerwolf
01-02-2009, 09:05
In the sameway, I'm not a fan of sticking a general on a horse in an infantry unit. Yes he gets an improved save, but can he not then be targetted separately? Not sure on that...


No, he can't.

Anyway, I would change your General and BSB equipment.

The General is on foot, with Laurels, AoMI and great weapon. Same save, same strength, 166 points.
Then you mount your BSB and give him Sword of Power. He has one less point of armour, but it cost 3 points less. In total you have saved 48 points.

However, if you want to use laurels, I would go for the Grand Master. 1 more attack, 1 more WS, it counts when trying to inflict maximun wounds.
You can get one equiped llike your General for 240 points, only 29 more.

The rest of the list is quite good.

Captain Plowman
01-02-2009, 09:58
Just a few points mate:

1. I would recommend making your detachments 9 men strong, deploying them in 3x3 formation. This means the detachment takes up less space in your deployment zone, it makes it harder for your opponent to charge, and it minimizes return attacks in close combat, while still fulfilling its role as a detachment.

2. I agree with innerwolf about your general. I would make him a Grand Master with Laurels and sword of Battle or sword of Striking. This means he will hit with a shedload of attacks, and gaining heaps of CR thanks to the Laurels.

3. If you can find the points I really recommend making your knights Inner Circle. Str 6 with Hatred (from Priest) and Immune to psycology (if the grand master is in there) even just 6 IC knights are a force to be reckoned with.

4. Try to fit in one or two 10 man unit of infantry, ideally Flagellants, but free company work well too. use these to protect the crossbowmen (and your wizard) and especially the Helblaster. The Helblaster is quite good at holding a flank through sheer intimidation, but is too easy to overwhelm if left by itself. use the 10 man unit to slow down or redirect anything that comes too close.

other than that it looks good.

Arbiter7
01-02-2009, 11:48
Ok here are some changes. Please tell me what you think!


Lord:
Grand Master (211pts)
[Sword of Power; Full Plate; Shield; Laurels of Victory; Barded Warhorse]

Goes in Inner Circle Knight Unit

Heroes
Captain BSB (142)
[Captain BSB; Sword of Sigismund; Full Plate; Barded Warhorse]

Kill before get killed is his motto

Captain
Armor of Meteoric Iron; Great Weapon; Icon of Magnus] (104pts)

Killy addition to Swordsmen unit. Immunity to fear is never a bad thing.

Mage (150pts)
[Lvl 2; Dispel Scroll x2]

Scroll Caddy.

Core:
29 Swordsmen FC (199pts)
Det A1: 9 Halberdiers (45pts)
Det A2: 5 Handgunners (40pts)

28 Swordsmen Shields FC (193pts)
Det. B1: 9 Halberdiers (45pts)
Det B2: 5 Handgunners (40pts)

6 Knightly order (162pts)
[Preceptor; Musician]

Some extra supporting killing power.

10 Crossbowmen (80pts)
Detatchment 10 Free Company (50pts)

Special:
Cannon (100pts)

Cannon (100pts)

9 Inner Circle Knights (304pts)
Full Command; Standard of Arcane Warding (277pts)

6 Outriders (155pts)
Muso; Champion; Hochland Long Rifle (155pts)


Rare:
Hellblaster Volley Gun (110pts)

innerwolf
01-02-2009, 12:07
Ok here are some changes. Please tell me what you think!


Lord:
Grand Master (211pts)
[Sword of Power; Full Plate; Shield; Laurels of Victory; Barded Warhorse]

Goes in Inner Circle Knight Unit

Heroes
Captain BSB (142)
[Captain BSB; Sword of Sigismund; Full Plate; Barded Warhorse]

Kill before get killed is his motto

Captain
Armor of Meteoric Iron; Great Weapon; Icon of Magnus] (104pts)

Killy addition to Swordsmen unit. Immunity to fear is never a bad thing.

Mage (150pts)
[Lvl 2; Dispel Scroll x2]

Scroll Caddy.

Core:
29 Swordsmen FC (199pts)
Det A1: 9 Halberdiers (45pts)
Det A2: 5 Handgunners (40pts)

28 Swordsmen Shields FC (193pts)
Det. B1: 9 Halberdiers (45pts)
Det B2: 5 Handgunners (40pts)

6 Knightly order (162pts)
[Preceptor; Musician]

Some extra supporting killing power.

10 Crossbowmen (80pts)
Detatchment 10 Free Company (50pts)

Special:
Cannon (100pts)

Cannon (100pts)

9 Inner Circle Knights (304pts)
Full Command; Standard of Arcane Warding (277pts)

6 Outriders (155pts)
Muso; Champion; Hochland Long Rifle (155pts)


Rare:
Hellblaster Volley Gun (110pts)


Well, when I talked about the Grand Master I thought he would go with the infantry. If you prefer him to go with your hammer IC knights I would drop the Sword of Power and leave him with his lance. They are supposed to break the enemy on the turn they charge, they aren't that suited for grinding units down.
With the points saved I would buy him a ward save( when fighting against the best of the best he will need it).
However I have read many lists in which people tool their GM like you did, so it could work.

I suppose the Captain is here because of lack of points. In other case the Warrior Priest is better if only for the Hatred + 1 DD( mounted or on foot he is a good addition to an infantry unit).

I like that you changed you detachment to 9. I usually go even further and field 8 strong ones, but they are supposed to be less efficient( panic test and all). 3x3 is a good discovery for detachments.

Finally, I wouldn't use 9 IC knights. You are paying quite a lot for +1 CR. I would field them 5 or 6 strong with Warbanner(+1 cr for a lot cheaper) or Banner of Steel( useful to catch enemy cavalry by surprise, and to flank charge). Banner of Arcane Warding comes third, because it's a bit situational, but offers a good protection against Lore of Metal and other "ignore saves" spells. I would also consider Banner of the Daemonslayer, against quite many armies it can auto-run a lot of units.
Again, I have heard of people using such units like yours, so it's your choice.