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ElvenGravy
02-02-2009, 00:28
is this some new evil trend?
why all of a sudden is it en vouge?

what would you say to an opponent who revealed the shade or bloodknight deathstar at a tournament?

i just hope some people are just playing listhammer, because most of these lists are INSANE!

dont get me wrong, i'd play against one for fun. just as long as i had a deathstar too.

Aurellis
02-02-2009, 00:37
What's a 'Deathstar'?

W0lf
02-02-2009, 00:43
what would you say to an opponent who revealed the shade or bloodknight deathstar at a tournament?

nice list, hope i can beat it.

In a meta-game id probably refuse to play it because it makes for boring games.

W0lf
02-02-2009, 00:49
A deathstar is a unit usually over 1,000 pts thats supposed to be nigh unkillable/unstoppable and win games.

Things like 80 Graveguard with regen and 3 vampires in.

Mouldsta
02-02-2009, 00:54
It's essentially an unkillable, all singing all dancing unit (usually weighing in at 800+ points), that's a nice safe place to hide your characters.

Example would be things like a unit of black guard, with 3 heroes in it including the BSB, upgraded so that it has the following bonuses; 3 ranks, standard, outnumber, battle standard, unbreakable, +1 CR, always strike first, reroll to hit, any shooting at them is at half BS, any magic at them is miscast on a double, all three characters have great weapons, and the lord choice is virtually unkillable (reverse ward, 2+, regenerate) so takes challenges where appropriate.

Neknoh
02-02-2009, 01:00
Aye

Units designed to soak such incredible ammounts of damage AND points (although these are a sidenote oft times) that sooner or later, you have to try and deal with it, and this is where it wins.

One of the more evil ones is a Troll deathstar picked from the Warriors of Chaos book.

23 Trolls, Sigvald, Throgg and a Battle Standard Bearer with any banner you would fancy, the Raptorous Standard is cited by me as theoretically useful due to basically making you fail on only 11, meaning a 1/18^2 risk of breaking as long as the battle standard bearer is allive. The unit has a one-use breathweapon to deal with the first attempted redirectors, it can never be marchblocked, causes fear, is stubborn on leadership 10, rerolls failed breaktests, any result of a double or including a 1 counts as insane courage AND regenerates, getting better each time they regenerate two consecutive wounds in the same phase. The unit also ignores difficult terrain AND has a unit strength of around 70.

Worst part is
that unit is supported by two units of 10 Marauders on foot, that's 80 points you can get without attempting to hurt the unit in itself. Both of those Marauder units will likely be hidden in a corner, contesting one tablequarter.

This means that your army can, at best, hope to achieve 80 victory points and MAYBE two tablequarters. To beat this list, you need to either hit the trolls in the flank or rear with a bucketload of flaming attacks, and even then, Sigvald and/or Throgg will move to the flank the next turn whilst the trolls puke your knights to death.

Basically, you play for a draw or you play to loose.

This type of monster list is taking the act of points denial and one monster hammer unit to the extreme.

Condottiere
02-02-2009, 01:11
Well, apart from the obvious ;)It has more fire-power than half the Imperial fleet.


In Warhammer terms, a massive concentration of points in one unit that can destroy most opponents it can come across, and usually well protected against both magic and shooting.

Makaber
02-02-2009, 01:36
I think it's a stupid trend supported by people who value winning more than they value playing Warhammer.

It used to be regarded as silly and a rookie mistake to put all your eggs in one basket in such a fashion, but I think the current trend emerged after a couple of the latest army books included the means to negate their weaknesses.

Aurellis
02-02-2009, 01:40
I think it's a stupid trend supported by people who value winning more than they value playing Warhammer.


I agree, it sounds like a tactic completely out of character for most armies. Possibly Vamp's could support it fluffwise but other than that... :eyebrows:

Pavic
02-02-2009, 01:46
I wonder if the multi steg list will become the standard way to beat deathstars. 8D6 str 5/6 impact hits would cause one heck of a mess :evilgrin:

Stuffburger
02-02-2009, 02:12
I always thought these were jokes and not practical as an actual list- shame to have myself proven wrong...

Stronginthearm
02-02-2009, 02:13
I think it's a stupid trend supported by people who value winning more than they value playing Warhammer
Indeed and realy annoying, I'd rather see a balanced force rather then somebody who just pops down 20 blood knights and a few zombies and says thats my army

Aurellis
02-02-2009, 02:24
I think Dark Elves could stand up to 20 Blood Knights pretty well...

Hydra and Black Guard with Kouran and BSB in the front, hit them with a Chariot or something nasty in the sides and I think you could have a very good chance.

Lord Dan
02-02-2009, 03:07
Really deathstars are more hit-or-miss than they originally appear. It's only one unit, after all, and though I'm not saying it's easy, getting that perfect charge in at the right moment is never more rewarding. You get 75% of your enemy's VP in 1 turn.

Mmm... I'll have a chocolate milkshake with my deathstar, please.

Chicago Slim
02-02-2009, 03:19
23 Trolls, Sigvald, Throgg and a Battle Standard Bearer with any banner you would fancy

Hardly unstoppable. Any good anvil will be able to tie up the entire Trolls unit, giving up maybe a couple hundred points, while the rest of my army wipes out both units of marauders (seriously, 2 units of 20 marauders each, versus over 1000 points of my whatever isn't tying up the Trolls? It'd take severely bad luck or incompetent play for those 2 units to survive...)

So, that's 3 table quarters for me, versus whatever I feed to the trolls for you. I don't see it going to anything but a draw, every time. I'd expect that after a couple of goes at it, the Trollstar player could be persuaded to bring an army that's capable of winning a game, instead. :)


Of course, the Trollstar against a magic-heavy list, with 8-10 levels of Lore of Fire, may well lose the game... with very nearly no magic defense, you're looking at 2-4 successful Fireballs, plus one or two other spells-- about 4d6 or 5d6 hits each turn-- let's call it 15 hits, for 5 wounds. You get 2-3 of those before the trolls are stuck in, so it'll be difficult to generate the 36 wounds needed to earn 1/2 points for the unit, but with some good rolling, and clever play to keep the Trolls out of combat and viable spell target, you're likely to pull it off... Half points for that unit would be a huge sum...

lokigod
02-02-2009, 04:36
hmm we had 1000 point tourney 2 weeks ago with the nasty vamp one. He had a min block of skels and the other 800 points or so in a unit of gg with bsb and 2 other vamps with the regen going. He went 1-0-3 and we laughed at how he lost every single game but one.....

game one against a new empire player he crushed him.

game two against me with pb and herald in a block.... and i just put all my attacks with herald and a pb champ on his general... he started crumbling turn 3. (win for me!)

game 3 against orcs and gobbos.. orc player stayed back and made him chase him all game then took 3 table corners for the win.

Last game against skaven and was playing for first so didnt get to see the skaven destroy him.

cerealkiller195
02-02-2009, 05:24
i have also noticed that more and more deathstars are popping up in lists, there is always a way to defeat it. but most deathstars win by their opponents using the wrong tools to attack them. Or in some cases being such a distraction that the opponent throws everything in his army just to try and defeat it. the purpose of the deathstar is fulfilled at that point.

In most cases it is just a distraction that can take massive amounts of damage, yes it is dangerous but you have to remember the other things in the army also can be dangerous if ignored..

Sidorio
02-02-2009, 05:40
Luckily no one at my club uses deathstar lists. I hate them and wouldn't play them. They take away the point of tactics in the match and are just stupid. So shame on all of you who have used them.

The Red Scourge
02-02-2009, 06:18
Indeed and realy annoying, I'd rather see a balanced force rather then somebody who just pops down 20 blood knights and a few zombies and says thats my army

That would be fun.

228 worth of figures in one unit, where 17 would vary in two poses + command. Thats a lot of money and a tedious paint job to compensate for lacking tactical skills.

The shade star at least has 5 poses and starts out at a meagre 94 for the basic 40.

Dignity on the other hand, while only mono pose, is priceless ;)

Volker the Mad Fiddler
02-02-2009, 06:19
I always thought these were jokes and not practical as an actual list- shame to have myself proven wrong...

Just because they can now be practical doesn't mean they are not jokes.

innerwolf
02-02-2009, 07:37
I hate them with all my heart as they destroy what Warhammer means to me, battles between two armies.

I'm so lucky my friends aren't ********** and the tournament I use to go check the lists one by one and ban the ones which are too cheesy. They don't even allow Walter S. Tank lists( of the double tank variety).

So I don't have to deal with this horrible meta-game.

Nephilim of Sin
02-02-2009, 07:39
I thought this was supposed to be out the door when 5th edition died? Are we back to this again? At least in 5th we had more options to make our 'TIE fighter' units from to surround the Death Star (sorry, couldn't resist).

Condottiere
02-02-2009, 08:07
Massassi Intercom Voice: "The Death Star has cleared the planet. The Death Star has cleared the planet."

Terrain is required to hinder the free movement of Deathstars, giving you time to find a way to destroy it.

Master Stark
02-02-2009, 08:14
If anyone ever deployed the shade-star against me, I'd just pack up and find another player.

slingersam
02-02-2009, 09:17
I'm not gonna say I know anything about the
game because I don't never even played a game
but I'm starting with lizardmen. But cant you out
manouver the "deathstar" unit. I personally would
just ignore it considerimg its so many points.
Not sure if this works but if a unit loses combat
dont they run and when they run doesnt the winner
have to follow, so ehy not have the deathstar run off the
board. like I said I still havent played anything yet so
I could be smoking builds right now.

Neknoh
02-02-2009, 10:12
Hardly unstoppable. Any good anvil will be able to tie up the entire Trolls unit, giving up maybe a couple hundred points, while the rest of my army wipes out both units of marauders (seriously, 2 units of 20 marauders each, versus over 1000 points of my whatever isn't tying up the Trolls? It'd take severely bad luck or incompetent play for those 2 units to survive...)

So, that's 3 table quarters for me, versus whatever I feed to the trolls for you. I don't see it going to anything but a draw, every time. I'd expect that after a couple of goes at it, the Trollstar player could be persuaded to bring an army that's capable of winning a game, instead. :)


Of course, the Trollstar against a magic-heavy list, with 8-10 levels of Lore of Fire, may well lose the game... with very nearly no magic defense, you're looking at 2-4 successful Fireballs, plus one or two other spells-- about 4d6 or 5d6 hits each turn-- let's call it 15 hits, for 5 wounds. You get 2-3 of those before the trolls are stuck in, so it'll be difficult to generate the 36 wounds needed to earn 1/2 points for the unit, but with some good rolling, and clever play to keep the Trolls out of combat and viable spell target, you're likely to pull it off... Half points for that unit would be a huge sum...

Indeed, half points for that unit would be somewhere around 700 points.

However, you are missing the point, the Trollstar is all about forcing you to play for a draw, you can, at best, get 80 Victory Points from the 2 units of 10 Marauders (meaning 20 4-point models). Any anvil strong enough to survive the ASF attacks of Sigvald allong with the Exalted after being puked at by Throgg and 2-3 Trolls will be quite costly and is therefore very susceptible to actually dying after two or so turns and earning quite a few victory points for the troll player.

What should be attempted should be to handle the Trollstar with misdirection and force them to chase units all day long, however, with ignoring terrain and always being able to march, this unit suddenly becomes very manouverable, moreso than you would think.

The ten lores of fire is indeed a problem, and basically all magic heavy lists can pull it off. Mind, I am not the designer of this deathstar, it was found elsewhere on this forum. However, the Exalted BsB can be given the Mark of Tzeentch and then the Collar of Khorne and the Bronze Armour of Zrakk, he is suddenly immune to poison and killingblow, has a 2+ armoursave and a 5+ wardsave as well as Magic Resistance 2, meaning he can 2-dice Fireballs and similar flaming spells and 3/4-dice the bigone. We can also drop two trolls in favour of a Sorceror with two Dispell Scrolls and suddenly, the unit (or, well, the army, but the unit IS the army :P) has 3 Dispell Dice, 2 Dispell Scrolls AND Magic Resistance 2.

It was a very rough idea to begin with, but I fear that with adequate tweaking, we are looking at one of the meaner deathstars out there, especially since it will either have basically all your support units fleeing OR it will have munched down an anvil. Remember, to get the 80 points of Marauders that are staying in hiding, you have to navigate around the deathstar with your entire army, meaning it can then turn and charge your units as it sees fit. I am not saying it is unbeatable, but it may well proove harder than you think.

Awilla the Hun
02-02-2009, 10:36
The way to beat the deathstar...

BURY THEM UNDER THE MOUNDS OF WEAK UNITS YOU THROW AT THEM TO TIE THEM UP!

Feed them detachments, 5 man light cavalry units, small quantities of knights, march blockers, and so on, whilst

A) Killing the other units
B) Capturing table quarters
C) Ignoring them
D) (If Skaven) FIRE-FIRE! QUICK-QUICK!
E) Preparing a charge of something hitty in their rear.
F) Pelting them with anything that causes panic checks. All that you need is one failed test, and away they go...

Neknoh
02-02-2009, 10:39
On a deathstar taking up 1920 points, how do you think killing the two, 40 point support units will win you the game? You actually buy yourself a LOSS if you attempt to stall the deathstar by feeding it cheap units. Not ever getting into combat is one way, but then you are looking at a draw at best

WH40KAj
02-02-2009, 11:04
Casting curse of the years on one of these "deathstars" sounds a right laugh :)

WH40KAj

Sideros Peltarion
02-02-2009, 11:23
Casting curse of the years on one of these "deathstars" sounds a right laugh :)

WH40KAj

Or that Tzeentch spell that has a chance of making the unit dissapear completely.
Gnoblars would be good to hold them up too. 40 points well spent if it worked. Though it would probably require several units

StarFyre
02-02-2009, 12:00
Nothing would be more fun in WH, IMHO, than watching an opponent with a deathstar unit, then you casting an IF Infernal Gateway on it and getting 11 or 12 :D

Sanjay

Master Stark
02-02-2009, 12:01
A) Killing the other units

There ARE no other units to speak of. Maybe three 50 point units.


B) Capturing table quarters

Yep, you can score 300 points there.


C) Ignoring them

Very difficult. How do you ignore the 120+ shots from a Shade-star?


D) (If Skaven) FIRE-FIRE! QUICK-QUICK!

Most of them either have -ve penalties to hit, or have excellent armour, ward saves, toughness and regen.


E) Preparing a charge of something hitty in their rear.

You can bet they'll be stubborn.


F) Pelting them with anything that causes panic checks. All that you need is one failed test, and away they go...

And you can bet they'll be ITP.

Nope, a well constructed deathstar army has next to no weakness that can be exploited by the regular army.

march10k
02-02-2009, 12:03
Well... wouldn't a couple turns of cannonballs bouncing through their ranks whittle them somewhat? Then stick an unbreakable unit of 25 swordsmen in their path and hit both flanks with charging kanniggits? With enemies on three sides, the characters can't be everywhere at once...should be able to get half points between the cannons and sacrificing the two units of knights and one unit of swords....then they pop out under half strength and get another dose from the cannons...while pistoliers run down the tokens in the corners. That's what I'd try with empire...with TK, I'm thinking dual SSCs (4 flaming shots a turn, total, right?) and mudpitting them with 40 regenning skellies while ushabti hit them in both flanks and scorpions, carrion, swarms, or chariots deal with the tokens hiding in the corner.

I dunno...I haven't played a trollstar, but it seems that the key is getting half points without giving up an equivalent number of points, and then taking three table quarters.

BigRob
02-02-2009, 12:10
High elves can take the trollstar, a couple of dragonmages just keep flying behind it, breath fire, cast fire, if it turns to charge you then fly out of the way and breath fire again. Burn baby Burn!

Shadestar = Templates. My Imperial Mortar battery and Hellstorms will blast big holes in your skirmishers, even if you spread them out as much as possible. Thats alot of models you have to fit on the board so scatter should still get it and the templates are mighty big with no worries about your half BS banner.

Frenzied Bloodknightstar = bait and shoot. The trollstar tactics with fire would work, high strength weapons with multiwound will work, Dwaves do the best with the flamecannon and the rune of burning on everything.

End result, Deathstar is not invincible, unbeatable but some armies will struggle against the individual builds.

Neckutter
02-02-2009, 12:14
Aye

Units designed to soak such incredible ammounts of damage AND points (although these are a sidenote oft times) that sooner or later, you have to try and deal with it, and this is where it wins.

One of the more evil ones is a Troll deathstar picked from the Warriors of Chaos book.

23 Trolls, Sigvald, Throgg and a Battle Standard Bearer with any banner you would fancy, the Raptorous Standard is cited by me as theoretically useful due to basically making you fail on only 11, meaning a 1/18^2 risk of breaking as long as the battle standard bearer is allive. The unit has a one-use breathweapon to deal with the first attempted redirectors, it can never be marchblocked, causes fear, is stubborn on leadership 10, rerolls failed breaktests, any result of a double or including a 1 counts as insane courage AND regenerates, getting better each time they regenerate two consecutive wounds in the same phase. The unit also ignores difficult terrain AND has a unit strength of around 70.

Worst part is
that unit is supported by two units of 10 Marauders on foot, that's 80 points you can get without attempting to hurt the unit in itself. Both of those Marauder units will likely be hidden in a corner, contesting one tablequarter.

This means that your army can, at best, hope to achieve 80 victory points and MAYBE two tablequarters. To beat this list, you need to either hit the trolls in the flank or rear with a bucketload of flaming attacks, and even then, Sigvald and/or Throgg will move to the flank the next turn whilst the trolls puke your knights to death.

Basically, you play for a draw or you play to loose.

This type of monster list is taking the act of points denial and one monster hammer unit to the extreme.

already done, and already defeated. now, granted he didnt have 23 trolls, it was more like 17ish. it took my Tomb King(and his unit of full command chariots) 3 rounds, but eventually he killed sigvald. and by that time my ushabti and bone giant had flanked his unit.

the main problem with the list is the lack of magic defence, so my king/prince/priest/priest/casket was too much. i suppose WoC with a tzeentch sorc lord would make short work of the army as well, since most of the attacks are flaming, and infernal gateway has a chance of wining you the game. :)

im interested in this shade-star thing though. my DE shot a bretonnian lord on hippo to bits the other day. 2 units of ten crossbowmen, and one unit of 6 dark riders. S3 armor piercing is so rude!

Chris_Tzeentch
02-02-2009, 12:15
Even templates are useless against the SkeleDeathStar. Oh look you just wounded 18 skeletons. I regenerate half of them back, and summon another 18 to bolster the unit. Next!

Zee
02-02-2009, 12:16
Trollstar would be easy for my Tz list, 14+ PD and every spell is flaming , + my flamer units would burn them up

But for my Dwarf gunline, even with Thorik slowing them down and taking the two support units out ( arv 2 units hit per turn with 7hits ) my army I think would get rolled over fairly easily

EvC
02-02-2009, 12:17
228 worth of figures in one unit, where 17 would vary in two poses + command. Thats a lot of money and a tedious paint job to compensate for lacking tactical skills.

Don't be silly, most crazy death stars are done on the cheap. Two boxes of Chaos Knights, paint them red, use Ghoul heads (Such people probably have some spare from when they made their "Daemon" armies, with Ghouls as Horrors/ Furies/ Plaguebearers), job done.

Silly armies, they really do highlight their user's lack of ability. I'd say "at least they can write a decent list" but let's be honest, they're one-trick ponies and usually just downloaded from the internet anyway, thanks to the various race-specific forums out there acting like anyone who's come up with a bent deathstar list is a god of gaming...

Zee
02-02-2009, 12:20
I use dryads for my horrors

Chris_Tzeentch
02-02-2009, 12:24
Most Undead Deathstar lists are well supported in terms of Magic, so ok the Tzeentch stuff might prevent Regeneration, but you would still struggle to prevent the constant summoning.

I am looking forward to fighting a Tzeentch Deamon list with my vampires - I decimated a Slaanesh deamon list in my last game, but I think the Tzeentch list would more of a challenge.

Zee
02-02-2009, 12:29
Just remeber, if he takes standard of sundering, it does not affect your invo of nehekk :P

Leth Shyish'phak
02-02-2009, 14:00
All I have to say is:

Yay! My troll death star is famous :D

Although to be exact it would be: Sigvald, Throgg, Bsb (imo should have flail, shield, regeneration or collar of khorne + tzeentch, barded steed), 24 trolls and 2x10 marauders.

The people saying its easy to beat are a bit mistaken if you ask me. You can get 80 points from the marauders. Maybe 300 from table quarters, but that unit of trolls is coming for you and at some point you will have to engage it. In order to get half points you need to do 39 wounds to the trolls. Anyone who thinks that fire magic can do that is seriously overestimating fire magic.

Lore of fire is only S4, so won't do too many wounds per turn. Flickering Fire doesn't generate enough hits to kill them (to the person who said all Tzeentch spells are flaming... They're not).

Infernal Gateway might kill it, but you have to get really lucky.

But please note that I wouldn't ever use this list. I just thought it up for fun :cheese:

Zee
02-02-2009, 14:11
All the ones that I use are flaming, and flikering fire makes between 1-7 shots, casting that usually in the region of 6 times per turn (assuming dd is saved for other stronger fire based spells that are also being cast. With flamers outputting in the region of 40 flaming shots per turn, with only one unit there it would be pretty simple to get them into palce.

Condottiere
02-02-2009, 14:16
If you knew a whole bunch of trolls are coming, Fire and Metal lores would be a no-brainer. The Dwarves should have a field day with their Runes.

march10k
02-02-2009, 14:19
The people saying its easy to beat are a bit mistaken if you ask me. You can get 80 points from the marauders. Maybe 300 from table quarters, but that unit of trolls is coming for you and at some point you will have to engage it. In order to get half points you need to do 39 wounds to the trolls. Anyone who thinks that fire magic can do that is seriously overestimating fire magic.

Lore of fire is only S4, so won't do too many wounds per turn. Flickering Fire doesn't generate enough hits to kill them (to the person who said all Tzeentch spells are flaming... They're not)

Uh, what about four shots per turn from SSCs? Would that whittle your trollstar before it's tarred with skellies in the front, and hit with ushabti in both flanks?

Makaber
02-02-2009, 14:22
I'd like to add to my previous sentiment that I've never played a Deathstar, nor have I ever heard of anyone using one here, or seen pictures of a Deathstar. If I ever ran into a schmuck who'd actually brought and painted 24 Trolls, my response would probably be an equal amount of pity and mockery.

Ozorik
02-02-2009, 14:30
Ive only played one.

A bloodknight unit (proxied of course) regen, 3(4?) vampires etc. I baited it, hit it in the flank, and charged my lords unit in the front. Even though I killed 2 vampire characters(including the BSB) I still lost the combat by 10. It was the least enjoyable game of fantasy I have had for a very long time.

If I ever see that across the board from me again Im just going to concede on the spot so I will have time for a real game. Or maybe I'll just insist that proxies are not allowed, that should drastically cut down on 'deathstar' lists.

Disciple of Caliban
02-02-2009, 14:35
The troll one is certainly pricy, but many death star lists can be put together pretty cheaply (troll list could maybe be done from converted Ogres, but that would be pushing it).

Blood knights can be made from the Chaos knight plastics (or Empire/Bret knights if you want them really cheap), 2 or 3 boxes of knights and a couple of characters and your done. Off the top of my head i'm thinking 2 boxes of Bret knights, and a box of chaos knights to convert into the characters. That totals 48 (plus 3 core units, all undead core can be done in plastic, so still very cheap), and, we can even make this a legitimate, fluff based force, by saying its the Red Dukes army. So there we go, under 75 all in (not including online discounts) and a very powerful army (they regenerate/re raise quicker than most forces can bring them down)

The Shadestar (which i think i will deploy one day just to see how it plays), 2 boxes of glade guard (converted to have RxBs), 2 boxes of Warriors (3 units of spearmen, and provides the RxBs necessary to convert the glade guard) totals 72, plus characters (If you want to keep it cheap you can buy Manhides Manflayers, which could represent a few assasins, a dreadlord, and a BSB). So for under 100 you'd have a nice powerful death star unit, that can actually play for a win (the sheer volume of firepower means it can drop a unit a turn from range)

Leth Shyish'phak
02-02-2009, 14:39
All the ones that I use are flaming, and flikering fire makes between 1-7 shots, casting that usually in the region of 6 times per turn (assuming dd is saved for other stronger fire based spells that are also being cast. With flamers outputting in the region of 40 flaming shots per turn, with only one unit there it would be pretty simple to get them into palce.


You only use Flickering Fire and um, that other one that does 2D6 S5 then?

Yes, a ****load of flamers will kill them. But then, they'll kill pretty much anything :rolleyes:


Uh, what about four shots per turn from SSCs? Would that whittle your trollstar before it's tarred with skellies in the front, and hit with ushabti in both flanks?

Yes, a pair of screaming skull catapults would do quite a bit of damage. But still they probably wouldn't do enough, then you'd have to hope that they fail a Ld9 re-rollable panic test (not too unlikely though). Skeletons in the front = free combat res for the trolls. Ushabti won't do too much damage (and will boost them with a few EotG rolls) and then the unit is stubborn on Ld10 with a re-roll while it grinds you down.

W0lf
02-02-2009, 14:45
And I know you'll say, "Oh, well you must just be one of those jackasses who plays that sort of cheezy list." Guess what? I don't use deathstar lists, but I would if I thought it was the best possible army composition.

actually i think your one of those narrow-minded jackasses that thinks they know everything and people should listen to them.

I wouldnt play vs most deathstar lists because guess what? Its a HOBBY, for FUN. I wouldnt enjoy playing a deathstar so why the hell would/should i?

I have played vs a vamps one but after 4 games no one wanted to play him and guess what? he brought a real list thats fun to play against.

but 'oh noes!' i should play a dull/boring game and waste 2+ hours of my free time because some jackass on warseer thinks im a 'whiny child'.

Seriously :wtf: is up with these people?

EDIT:
(or presumably a brain, but I'd guess idiots like you wouldn't really know where to look)

hahaha good one... not. what are you like 8?

Lewis
02-02-2009, 14:55
I'd argue that the difference between good strategy and deathstars is that you're done strategising when you finish writing the list in your bedroom. There's no responsive play, no management mid game, just set down and go.

You could and can build to beat them, but then this becomes a game of compositon and counter composition and to my mind this is no where near as fun as beating someone on the table top rather than before i even meet them.

Personally I admire the Australian tournament comp system.

EvC
02-02-2009, 14:57
Hehe, typical Warseer thread, nice civil discussion then someone decides it's time to flame everyone who has a differing opinion to him. Hopefully we can all be immature enough to ignore him rather than launching insults like a mature grown up would do ;)

Conotor
02-02-2009, 15:00
A deathstar is a unit usually over 1,000 pts thats supposed to be nigh unkillable/unstoppable and win games.

Things like 80 Graveguard with regen and 3 vampires in.

Umm.... that could be very powerful with a lot of dances, but if anyone took a lot of DD, it would be absolutely useless. Your opponent would just run around it and kill the rest of your army.

Neknoh
02-02-2009, 15:18
Umm.... that could be very powerful with a lot of dances, but if anyone took a lot of DD, it would be absolutely useless. Your opponent would just run around it and kill the rest of your army.

Problem: The rest of the army consists of 240 of Skeletons or Zombies, which can be replenished should you attack them with fast cavalry or the like. Slower units gunning for them will end up moving very close to the deathstar.

W0lf
02-02-2009, 15:24
Hopefully we can all be immature enough to ignore him rather than launching insults like a mature grown up would do

Im 18 and i like plastic soldiers, mature grownup? nah :D
Sorry but im like a moth to a flame when these people pop-up.

Anyway on-topic:

As for the GG deathstar it works because like all GOOD deathstars you are forced to engage it to get any real VPs. This is a key element to deathstars, well good ones anyway.

Oh and its also worth noting if a counter to a deathstar requires specific elements they are only really solid/viable if a typical list would inlude them. I play strict non-tailored and tournys so even if my army i was using had the tools to deal with a certain deathstar i wouldnt neccesarily include them.

My favourite deathstar was a list that came 2nd in a us GT (if i recall correctly) was labbeled the 'doogie deathstar.

To the best of my memory it was 3 vampires all mounted in a unit of 18 dire wolves with regen.

King Vyper
02-02-2009, 15:50
My favourite deathstar was a list that came 2nd in a us GT (if i recall correctly) was labbeled the 'doogie deathstar.

To the best of my memory it was 3 vampires all mounted in a unit of 18 dire wolves with regen.

I heard about that list also. I think dwarfs have the best shot at beating death stars but the tactic is beardy to say the least.

Slayer Congo Line, Flaming War Machines (Catapults & Cannons) & Flame Cannons with lots of runes of Spell Eating. It is very beardy and I would never play something like this unless I faced one of these death stars.

N810
02-02-2009, 16:00
It seems like most Death Stars have a small lord shaped thermal exaust port... :skull:

innerwolf
02-02-2009, 16:02
...You are all ridiculous children...

...If you disagree, I would suggest finding a new hobby (or presumably a brain, but I'd guess idiots like you wouldn't really know where to look) or thinking again...


I suggest using the Troll deathstar with you replacing Throgg, it's a fact it would be nastier :p

Using insults to back your arguments doesn't prove anything but your inmaturity.

As WOlf said, I won't waste 2-3 hours with something I dislike as hard as ripping my balls and feeding them to the dogs. The game should be funny for both players.
In addition, playing Deathstars don't require any tactical thought, you deploy, click "start button" and see the rictus of suffering on the other gamer's face.

In tournaments? If you are one of those people who would go so far only to win then right, do what you want. With some luck you will face a nastier Deathstar and your parade of kickasserie will end in a boring game for both.

But I'm glad most people in friendly enviroments sees how things like this are not Warhammer and keeps using real armies.

Havock
02-02-2009, 16:08
You are all ridiculous children.

"Oh wah, mommy; look at that big horribly good strategy! I might lose! Wah!"

Give me a break; if it's a good list, make a better one. If you can't, you aren't a good enough player, and you need to find another hobby. This is a game. People play games to have fun. They also, if you hadn't noticed, try to be efficient and effective; there is an "objective" to playing a game, as well as a "point". If you do not play in the interest of your victory you are not only making the game worse for your opponent, but also proving that you have no intelligence to speak of.

And I know you'll say, "Oh, well you must just be one of those jackasses who plays that sort of cheezy list." Guess what? I don't use deathstar lists, but I would if I thought it was the best possible army composition.

When you do anything, if you have any sense of the thing or care in the slightest, you will do your best at it. Making the best list possible is a strong argument in favor of this thought. If you're going to complain about somebody's army compostion, you're only complaining about the way Games Workshop wrote the rules.

If you disagree, I would suggest finding a new hobby (or presumably a brain, but I'd guess idiots like you wouldn't really know where to look) or thinking again.

So, in which rank of the troll deathstar are you sitting?