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Ozorik
03-02-2009, 16:14
If I ever get round to doing my Empire again Im thinking of running this list. Its unusual and will it will doubtless struggle against more 'optomised' lists but since when has that ever been the point in wargaming?

It will represent one of the mobile elements of the Nordland costal defences.

General: Dawn armour, shield, holy relic = 158

Captain: BSB, Armour of meteoric iron = 100

Warrior priest of Mannan: Heavy armour, great weapon, VHS = 128

Battle wizard: lvl 1, rod of power = 95

25 swordsmen: FC = 300
10 archers
9 halberdiers

25 swordsmen: FC = 300
10 archers
9 halberdiers

25 spearmen: FC = 300
10 archers
9 free company

5 knights = 115

5 knights = 115

5 knights = 115 (possibly 5 outriders instead)

10 crossbowmen = 80

5 pistoliers = 90

5 outriders = 115

Its not often you see Empire armies without a single warmachine, and 30 archers is even less common :)

RossS
03-02-2009, 17:34
There is a reason for that...

Ozorik
03-02-2009, 17:48
Warmachines are pretty hit or miss in my opinion so I doubt I will miss them. Archers also arent that bad, they are there almost purely as a skirmish screen anyway.

ZeroTwentythree
03-02-2009, 18:00
Without the war machines, a fighty character or big critter of your own, how to you intend to deal with big critters?

Your WP with the VHS may not get prime pick of his targets for using the VHS since he's walking (and in a unit of infantry, I assume.)

Ozorik
03-02-2009, 18:55
Big critters by and large dont bother me, I have enough shooting to neutralise (or at least worry) things like hydras and giants providing there arent too many of them. Cannon have never worked well for me in the past so I no longer field them.

As for fighty characters, well the Empire cant really handle them that well at the best of times. I can either hope to get lucky with the WP or attempt to neutralise them with my general long enough for me to flank charge with knights.

RossS
03-02-2009, 19:04
You do not have enough shooting to neutralize big, scary monsters. You will never, ever stop anything Hydra-sized or bigger no matter how many bucketloads of strength 3 and 4 shooting you slap on the table.

As far as I am concerned those swarms of archers are completely useless. With BS 3 and a missile with strength 3 they will never kill anything.

Buy two cannons. Buy two cannons. Buy two cannons!

Napoleon Blownapart
03-02-2009, 19:30
Empire needs great cannon to kill big things 'nuff said. It's not cheesy, it's almost mandatory. You're right, it's fun to be unique, but funner to be unique in a way that conicides with an army's strengths. What I mean by that is sure, you can take and all Calvary Empire army or instance, but why would you when you can take an all brettonnian Calvary army?

Ozorik
03-02-2009, 20:18
You will never, ever stop anything Hydra-sized or bigger no matter how many bucketloads of strength 3 and 4 shooting you slap on the table

Why not? Weight of fire will kill anything. The archers alone will cause 1 wound(ish) per turn on the hydra for instance.


With BS 3 and a missile with strength 3 they will never kill anything

Thats not what they are there for. They are multi-role troops, if they kill something its a bonus.


Buy two cannons. Buy two cannons. Buy two cannons!

No, no, no :)


What I mean by that is sure, you can take and all Calvary Empire army or instance, but why would you when you can take an all brettonnian Calvary army?

Then whats the point in playing at all if you simply go on 'strengths'? You would be as well playing risk.

As I have said I have used cannons in the past but never been impressed by them; if my Dwarves manage fine without them, why not my Empire?

pkain762
03-02-2009, 20:56
it's all about what you like to field guy.... try it out if you like it great if not add a couple of things to deal with huge monsters.... you don't NEED warmachines..... i like them myself, but that's just me being the artillery guy i am.

your knights can deal with huge creatures.... so can outriders if you use those two. five outriders gives you 15 s 4 ap shots a turn... and they're fast cav.... only bad thing is that they are move or shoot....

i don't care for your list..... but it's all about what you like so if that's what you want to do... tell everyone to step off....

kain

ZeroTwentythree
03-02-2009, 21:32
Why not? Weight of fire will kill anything. The archers alone will cause 1 wound(ish) per turn on the hydra for instance.



Assuming that you balance out your "to hit" roll with the large target +1 and a -1 for either long range or moving, that's hitting on a 4+, 6+ to wound, 4+ scaly save for a hyrda, then a 4+ regen. On average, you will need 48 bow shots to cause one wound. In the meantime, those archers aren't shooting at something better, like T3 elves.





Then whats the point in playing at all if you simply go on 'strengths'? You would be as well playing risk.


Will your opponents be playing to the weaknesses of their armies, or the strengths?

I play an infantry heavy Empire army (no STank, no WAlter, no VHS, no wizard lord...) as well, so I'm not criticizing. But even with cannons, it's a struggle against monsters & uber-units/characters.




As I have said I have used cannons in the past but never been impressed by them; if my Dwarves manage fine without them, why not my Empire?

Dwarfs have bolters, runes and harder characters. ;)

Ozorik
03-02-2009, 22:25
Will your opponents be playing to the weaknesses of their armies, or the strengths?


Thats not really the point. The point is that I dont care. If I wanted to play that particular game I would be running some deamonic multi god monstrosity.


Dwarfs have bolters, runes and harder characters

Yes they do. It is also worth noting that my bolt throwers (2 of them with the usual runes and engineer) have yet to kill a large target, or much else for that matter.


On average, you will need 48 bow shots to cause one wound

I did say "ish". There would also be 40 (on a good day) S4 shots heading its way as well.