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imperial_communist
03-02-2009, 22:18
hi I play WH40K alot and have decided its time for some of the good ol (propper) warhammer.

(elf is singular elves is plural correct me if wrong as i will be using this throughout the post)
I love the Dark elves the models and the thaught of them but i have stumbled across a small error, that is price nearley all of the units are metal can anyone give me some cost cutting tips and what are the easiest
(parsay) units to use and what do you suggest.

i have thaught about using empire pistolier units and the dark elf warrior box for a dark rider conversion so its cheaper.
any other cost cuting things i could do?

TY VM :D

O&G'sRule
03-02-2009, 22:34
Theres not alot of plastics in the range, so they are quite an expensive army. However they are quite pricey in point so you don't need that much for 1500-2000 pts. You could make your characters expensive (points) that cheapens things a bit, Use more assassins, upgrade the characters too like Kouran or Tallaris instead of unit champions

Rubicon
03-02-2009, 23:16
Depends how far you want to go with conversions etc. You could do a pretty heafty core based army with just Warriors, spearmen, Corsairs and then the option of Cold one knights as a special choice.

I think the Wood Elf kits stack up quite well with the dark elf kits for conversions. Glade Riders and the warriors box set together to make dark riders, Glade Guard and warriors together can make passable shades too. I've even seen the Bloodletter kit spliced with the warriors to make Executioners. Buy a Tomb King Chariot box and a cold one knight box and you could do two cold one chariots, with some warriors for crew.

I think it's reasonable to do an all-plastic DE army with just a bit of conversion. You'll just have to forget about taking black guard or witch elves, which I can't think of a way to convert (for now).

Dragonreaver
04-02-2009, 00:10
Dark Elves aren't that much more expensive, when you think of it as an army list rather than a list of models in the store. It might look expensive, when you look at the store and see the amount of metal models we have, but unless you're playing a Temple of Khaine list, you won't be using most of them.

Our. Core. Rocks. That's essentially the message.

Warriors, Crossbows and Corsairs are all plastic. Even Cold One Knights are plastic. You could easily build a 1k list without using a single metal model, and have it be reasonably competitive (assuming you convert a Master from the Warriors box).

Then, when you have that list to play with, you'll have time to save up for the more expensive units (your Black Guard or Executioners and Witch Elves) while you play some games and get a feel for it.

Essentially there are three 'problem areas' when it comes to Dark Elves metal models:
Harpies, Dark Riders and Witch Elves. Harpies and Dark Riders are ugly models anyway (especially the Harpies, who look like bad halloween costumes). Dark Riders we've covered: Glade Riders + Greenstuff hoods + Warrior Bits. Witch Elves are pretty much unavoidable really, unless you want to get funky with some Daemonettes (and let's face it, who doesn't?)

I'm not including the BG/Execs, because every single army in the game has the 'problem' of their hard-hitting Special choice being metal. Just think, it could be worse, you could be a High Elf player. Ouch. :p

W0lf
04-02-2009, 00:24
Dark elves like daemons are one of those beautiful armies, where its hard to write a 'bad' list.

I highly suggest you write a list that you like and post it ether here, druchii tactica or army list section. If you want a few pointers these are mine, bare in mind ive only played DE since 7th book but have yet to lose a game in ~20 games.

- Hydra banner noble in cold ones is golden, they WILL break almost anything.
- harpies wont ever fail you. even if they hide then contest 2 table 1/4s. 2x 5 is nice
- Shades + Dark riders = best scouts and fast cav in the game imo. Nothing compares.
- Black guard w/ASF champ with crimson death. Add noble/dreadlord with GW and field 7x3. Insanely powerful.
- If you take assasins (i really dont rate them personally) then give them a specific role.
- Id suggest always taking a Hydra. 2 if you want to be ultra competitive.
- DE spears are insanely cheap, feel free to abuse.

So as you can see ALOT of positives to be had.
Only things i would warn (incase not obv)

- Corsairs are pretty sub-par. Not as good as other options, however if you take them for theme then NEVER give handbows. Not worth losing 2 attacks. Spearmen are better for cost.
- Executioners do nothing black guard or cold ones dont do better.

Bregalad
04-02-2009, 00:37
This thread gives a good first impression of what to use in a Dark Elf army:
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=178263
And here is a whole website dedicated to them:
http://www.druchii.net/index.php


(elf is singular elves is plural correct me if wrong as i will be using this throughout the post)
... and yes, "elf" and "elves" are among the 70% of words in your post, that are spelled correctly ;)

Dragonreaver
04-02-2009, 00:49
- Executioners do nothing black guard or cold ones dont do better.

Yes they do - Executioners are your tin opener unit. Black Guard are excellent at not running away, and hitting things repeatedly. They do well against large units of low-toughness or lightly armoured troops. They're the unit you charge Zombies, Skaven or Skeletons with. Charge the Zombies, challenge the Vampire, wipe out his unit while he's not looking (even if your Tower Master doesn't actually win). And like I said, they will not run away, ever.

But against especially tough or well armoured units, Executioners will always do better, in my experience. Faced with a unit of Chosen Chaos Knights, I'd much rather be able to say "I auto-kill you on 6's to wound, and you only get a 4+ save" than "I get 20 attacks, but you still get a 2+ save".

And Executioners are cheaper.

Black Guard have their uses, obviously. To say otherwise would be laughable. And if the two sides faced each other on the battlefield, Black Guard would almost certainly win. Tullaris, as much as I love him, would get absolutely twatted by Kouran in a challenge. But that's not the point. :p

Quetzl
04-02-2009, 01:11
As people have said the Glade Riders are great to make Dark Riders with. I've done mine up like that, clicky the link in my sig for an example - they're not the best though I've seen some truly amazing ones where they've greenstuffed hoods on etc.

W0lf
04-02-2009, 02:06
Yes they do - Executioners are your tin opener unit.

Faced with a unit of Chosen Chaos Knights, I'd much rather be able to say "I auto-kill you on 6's to hit, and you only get a 4+ save" than "I get 20 attacks, but you still get a 2+ save".

I said black guard OR coldone knights

Tin openers? well cold one knights are S6 and faster, aswell as being better protected and having an extra S4 attack. ;)

Vs chaos knights? ... oh god :wtf:... your front rank of executioners will be ALL DEAD every round thanks to strike last and being charged. At least with cold one knights you might charge and win. :rolleyes:


Point proven.

Kelderaith
04-02-2009, 04:52
I mostly agree with wolf here, the only way I would see a use for them are as very small MSU unit as "punchy" flankers but then again it's DE not HE... you usually don't have that many free special slot for this little thing (which is not even that great to begin with, just saying that COULD be a POTENTIAL use).

I would also like to note I find it quite bad that GW couldn't fix the rules for them as they are one of the DE model I like the most (both fluff wise and figure wise) and I find it lame that they suck that bad.

ChaosVC
04-02-2009, 05:01
My pointer to you is, think about it, is the cost cutting going to affect the overall asthetic look of your Dark elf army? Remember you are only doing this army once. Of course if you are more of a gamer then a collector/hobbyist/painter, almost every suggestion here is helpful. But think about it, you want your army look good and inspiring or just cheap and usable?:D


Edit: Ignore me I am just bored. :D

imperial_communist
04-02-2009, 12:44
Well i like all 3 elements you have listed i like moddeling and painting i have no trouble with conversions and i want a cheap playable army

The Adept
04-02-2009, 14:47
"I auto-kill you on 6's to hit, and you only get a 4+ save"

Quick rules point - killing blow works on 6's to wound, not 6's to hit. It's poison which works on 6's to hit.

I'd not normally point this out (you most likely mis-typed), but this is for a new player, so we don't want to confuse him (or her - it does happen!)

imperial_communist
04-02-2009, 15:24
Im male may i post in response of that point.
i know kiling blow is like using a power weapon in 4TK.

The SkaerKrow
04-02-2009, 15:37
Killing Blow is actually a little more like Rending in 40K. When making a Killing Blow attack if you roll a 6 to wound against a target with Unit Strength 1 or 2 (usually a man-sized target or a man-sized target on a horse), they do not get an armor nor Regeneration save and lose all of their remaining wound total, being killed instantly.

It's a good ability, but Executioners will more often than not only get a chance to hit when they charge. If they get charged, or if combat lasts more than one round, they usually have no chance to strike at all because of their terrible armor save and the fact that they have to swing last.

Dragonreaver
04-02-2009, 17:41
Yeah, my bad. I meant to wound. Lizardmen on the brain! :p Duly edited. :)

O&G'sRule
04-02-2009, 19:47
I said black guard OR coldone knights

Tin openers? well cold one knights are S6 and faster, aswell as being better protected and having an extra S4 attack. ;)

Vs chaos knights? ... oh god :wtf:... your front rank of executioners will be ALL DEAD every round thanks to strike last and being charged. At least with cold one knights you might charge and win. :rolleyes:


Point proven.

Surely you'd put an assassin in with the executioners, just to stem that 'strikes last' problem

Rubicon
04-02-2009, 21:19
I think that Executioners got the short end of the straw in the new list tbh. If only they weren't khainite, then i'd put a bsb with the banner o' Hag Graef in there and you have a pretty awesome anvil. As it is, they are passable. Not bad in themselves, just not as good as the other possible special choices out there.

W0lf
04-02-2009, 21:46
All executioenrs need was to able to be joined by a Noble and they would have been 100% fine and usuable. Not as good as blackguard but certainly worth taking.

Unfortunatly they got shafted.

Dragonreaver
05-02-2009, 01:42
I don't get why everyone is saying Assassins are mandatory in Exec units. What difference is 3 (possibly 6 with the RoK) attacks really going to make? Sure, against a unit of knights it might make quite a difference, but against any block infantry, it's hardly going to dent them at all, is it?

If you're so sure the Execs are crap and are going to die horribly (as most of you seem to be), they'll die just as horribly against 17/16 Swordmasters as they would against 20. Unless you're implying that the assassin gives ASF to the unit, in which case... lol.

fubukii
05-02-2009, 06:56
simple the assassin goes first kills some enemies minimized the amount of wounds your exes take thus granting them more attacks and more overall CR

ChaosVC
05-02-2009, 07:18
Think about it, death star executionals, Hag bsb with asf banner joining it and a Cauldron of blood with 12 inch of them, then given either +1 attack of 5+wards save. You have stuborn x2a strenght 6 killing blow asf! Whoohoo!

Black what, guard what? Wha wha what?!

Neckutter
05-02-2009, 07:46
welcome to "how to make executioners a 700pt unit"

Dragonreaver
05-02-2009, 16:56
Only 566, to be fair _ But that's without any upgrades or an assassin for the Execs, which apparently is 'essential'. So, yeah...

You know what'd be awesome? That + Dreadlord on Black Dragon + 2 Hydras + CO Chariot + 3x 5 Dark Riders.

2,000pts, 39 models (43 if you include the Beastmasters). :D

bob_the_small
07-04-2009, 22:13
Assassin in executioners = awesome unit of doooom!
Rubicon you can put a BSB in executioners... Hag Queen??? LOL

Witch elf conversion = daemonettes with daggers
BG conversion = spearmen legs, cold one knight top