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Foegnasher
04-02-2009, 05:15
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So i threw out a challenge to my local game group. you name the points, and I'll match it in skittery goodness.

we have a victim.

Geordie is a greenskin player, and he wants to play 5K.

so i have a 5000 point battle on sunday, and i even get to face my most hated, frustrateing foe, the green wave. i myself will be bringing close to 500 models, 13 powerdice and 32 drops.

I am going to have to take pictures of this one.

GLORY FOR THE HORNED RAT!!!

*skitter skitter*
__________________

E101beta
04-02-2009, 05:19
Wow, 5000pts in Skaven, that is intense... Think you could share some pics of the battlefield once its over?

ChaosVC
04-02-2009, 05:23
Nothing like a super mega game to end the week aye? I envy you.:mad:

Foegnasher
04-02-2009, 05:26
this will be the biggest game i have ever played. i hope my rats are up for killing tons of greenskins.

Lord Dan
04-02-2009, 05:28
You only have 13 PD in 5,000 points?

fastcarfreak
04-02-2009, 05:29
I wish I could get someone to play 5000 points with me :( I hope the skaven prevail!!! please keep us posted with a possible step by step and some pics after setup and during the game!

fastcarfreak
04-02-2009, 05:30
You only have 13 PD in 5,000 points?

Yeah i kinda agree with you.... although 13 is the skaven number!!!

Foegnasher
04-02-2009, 05:30
You only have 13 PD in 5,000 points?

grey seer with the eye, bell, and 2 warlocks. i could make more, but then the shooting and horde would suffer. i also have the storm daemon and the bands of power in there too....

fastcarfreak
04-02-2009, 05:33
now all you have to do is roll a 13 with the bell and it GAME OVER!!!!

Foegnasher
04-02-2009, 05:56
now all you have to do is roll a 13 with the bell and it GAME OVER!!!!

the thought had occured to me that i could force a concession on the first turn....

ah, it'll probably explode the first time i ring it.

no great loss, in a 5K game, 200 points is nothing.

Warlord Gnashgrod
04-02-2009, 06:58
now this will be an epic battle. two horde armies. Better expect to be playing for a while though LOL. At that pts value it won't surprise me if it takes more than one day.

Make sure to let us know how it all goes. May the Horned Rat be with you.

woodulikeanother
04-02-2009, 07:38
i did a 4k battle with my greenskins vs chaos a long time ago it was a long battle but when you have 2 other people to help move units/set up and take down help look up mis undersood rules or rules forgotten... it helps the game move alot smoother, so if you have some friends that would be willing to see the battle go down and throw a little help in while you play...

Neckutter
04-02-2009, 09:31
i want to play a game like this. i own close to around 9k worth of DoC/WoC/BoC and i would love to play with an opponent or some opponents in a huge megabattle!

good luck in the game. two horde armies clashing head to head will be a sight to see!
please post a pic or 2 or 30. :)

fastcarfreak
04-02-2009, 15:19
the thought had occured to me that i could force a concession on the first turn....

ah, it'll probably explode the first time i ring it.

no great loss, in a 5K game, 200 points is nothing.

I did that against my brothers empire army last week. I had the first turn and half his army including his general ran off the table. He was pretty pissed, and I was kinda upset we spent so much time setting up to end the game on turn one. I ended up rerolling the dice so we could rematch right from the shooting phase so we didnt waste our time. It wouldnt have been so bad if he wasnt soo close to the edge. The next time we played after the rematch, he smartened up and through some banner that allowed him to reroll panic tests within 12 inches of his battle standard. I ended up rolling 13 on turn 1 again, and not one unit panicked.

If you want to really enjoy the game, make a special rule for the bell that a roll of a 13 will only affect units within a certain distance.

Malorian
04-02-2009, 15:25
As long as both of you are veteran gamers 5k should take 3-5 hours.

I'm really looking forward to this one. A mega battle with tons of blocks and pictures? Yes please :)

Some things the skaven will have to watch out for is the terror causing wyverns. I woun't be surprised if there are two of them in that orc list.

imperial_communist
04-02-2009, 15:32
3-5 hours 5k pts what the hell?
like 1-2 days morelike.

though this will be a fun battle and im lookin foreward to these jucy pics of the greenskin slaughter!
For the glory of the horned rat!

DarkTerror
04-02-2009, 17:12
Yeah, 3-5 hours seems incredibly short. No way that happens with experienced players.

Setting up alone could easily take an hour if your units are all ready to go. You'll probably spend another hour or so along the way just looking up rules and wording for specific situations. And that's IF you have a LOT of experience.

I've been playing for about 10 years and when I play a 2250 game with someone of about equal experience it's still about a 3 hour+ game.

A 5000 point battle should take about a full day.

505
04-02-2009, 19:00
well chaos and bret knight hevey 3-5 hours would be ok...but skaven and greenskin even with movent trays thats like 1000 units a side (ok so thats a bit of an exageration) but still will take a while

Foegnasher
04-02-2009, 19:12
As long as both of you are veteran gamers 5k should take 3-5 hours.

I'm really looking forward to this one. A mega battle with tons of blocks and pictures? Yes please :)

Some things the skaven will have to watch out for is the terror causing wyverns. I woun't be surprised if there are two of them in that orc list.


3-5 hours 5k pts what the hell?
like 1-2 days morelike.

though this will be a fun battle and im lookin foreward to these jucy pics of the greenskin slaughter!
For the glory of the horned rat!


Yeah, 3-5 hours seems incredibly short. No way that happens with experienced players.

Setting up alone could easily take an hour if your units are all ready to go. You'll probably spend another hour or so along the way just looking up rules and wording for specific situations. And that's IF you have a LOT of experience.

I've been playing for about 10 years and when I play a 2250 game with someone of about equal experience it's still about a 3 hour+ game.

A 5000 point battle should take about a full day.


well chaos and bret knight hevey 3-5 hours would be ok...but skaven and greenskin even with movent trays thats like 1000 units a side (ok so thats a bit of an exageration) but still will take a while

i can play a game at 2250 with a horde of critters in 2 1/2 hours. all my stuff will be pre ranked and put in move trays, so i can get there and we can set up right away. i dont have to look up rules very often, and there will be a ton of veterans there if we have a rules questions. we may play extra rounds due to the size of the game, but i can see it takeing anywhere from 5-7 hours.

Gaargod
04-02-2009, 19:30
Tried a 6000 points game, a 3v3 with everyone using 2k. It was pretty fun, but took 2 hours to do like a couple of turns. Around 20 units a side, utter chaos.


We now decided to play multiplayer games, but only up to 2k.

King Vyper
04-02-2009, 19:57
I am running a Mega Battle Event in April, We are looking at 10,000+ pts a side. I plan on allowing Special Characters and using the Grand Battery and Monster Regiment Rules. There are tricks to making mega battles work and flow smoothly. I am going to need all of them for this.

It the 3rd Event is a Three Part Campaign Series.

Foegnasher
04-02-2009, 22:06
finalized my list...


General:

Warlord, heavy armor, enchanted shield, foul pendant, desolate blade

Lord:

Grey seer, screaming bell, twisted crown, eye of horned rat, warpstone charm.

hero:

assassin. warpstone stars

hero:

master moulder, things catcher, warpstone amulet

hero:

plague priest, flail, bands of power

hero:

warlock, all the goodies (no pistol), storm daemon, dispel scroll

hero:

warlock, all the goodies (no pistol), tenberous cloak, death globes

hero:

chieftan, bsb.

Core:

4 x 20 slaves
6 x 25 clanrats, full command
1 x 20 clanrats, full command (pushes bell)
2 x ratlingun
2 x waqrpfirethrower
24 stormvermin, full command, shields, warbanner
3 x 24 giant rats, 4 packmasters
2 x 2 poison wind globideers
4 x 6 nightrunners, xhw.

special

6 gutter runner tunnelers, poisoned hand weapons
6 gutter runners, poisoned hand weapons, poisoned throwing stars
25 plague monks, full command, xhw
24 plague monks, full command, xhw
2 x 6 jezzails

rare

2 x warp lighting cannon
2 x 6 plague censer bearers.

casting pool: 12 (+ eye, + storm daemon, + bands)
dispel pool: 6 dispel dice, 1 scroll
models: 486
drops: 30 + 2 scouts

i could have made it bigger, but i wanted this particular set of heros, and to field a lot of things i didnt normally get to. i left out things that absolutely dont work or are not worth thier points (rat swarms, Ogres) out in favor of more ranks and numbers.

i hope it does well, it's a nice well rounded list, with lots of nastyness and plenty of rats.

Gaargod
04-02-2009, 22:12
I dunno what's going on if a 2250pts game takes over 3 hours in your place...

Unless a massive rules debate comes up - stupid GW and their conflicting rules :( - a 2k game will, including set up and put away, generally take under 2 hours. Maybe 2.5 hours if its a very slow one. Even with horde armies, which admittedly take longer, going over 3 hours for a single 2k game is insane.


Even 5k horde armies, if you have some help setting up and moving, shouldn't take more than 5 hours. If they are, you're spending way, way too much time fiddling about with the tiny details, when you could just live with it and go on.

Malorian
04-02-2009, 22:12
Looks good. Not too much shooting or magic, just a ton of guys ;)

Foegnasher
04-02-2009, 22:38
Looks good. Not too much shooting or magic, just a ton of guys ;)

and yet, enough shooting and magic to put the kaibosh on any giants, wyverns or Grimgors that might raise thier lumpy green heads.

plus, with skitterleap, i'll be able to put some serious hurt on him early.

Malorian
04-02-2009, 22:42
How would those things take out Grimgor? Doesn't your opponent usually field him in a unit of black orcs where he can't be singled out? (Look out sir for WLCs)

DarkTerror
04-02-2009, 23:34
I dunno what's going on if a 2250pts game takes over 3 hours in your place...

Unless a massive rules debate comes up - stupid GW and their conflicting rules :( - a 2k game will, including set up and put away, generally take under 2 hours. Maybe 2.5 hours if its a very slow one. Even with horde armies, which admittedly take longer, going over 3 hours for a single 2k game is insane.


Even 5k horde armies, if you have some help setting up and moving, shouldn't take more than 5 hours. If they are, you're spending way, way too much time fiddling about with the tiny details, when you could just live with it and go on.


For the number of additional units you include in a game, the time required goes up exponentially. This is because you have to think about how every unit interacts with the others to create a benefitial situation. Move up 7" or 8"? Well, it matters.

There is no way that a 5000 point game should take under 5 hours if you're a strategic thinker who isn't just running into your opponent and killing what's available that turn.

Example: There is a knight unit coming up the flank from your opponent's army. You must consider what you're going to do each turn to try and stop it (shooting, magic, movement of baiting units, etc.) unless you're going to just throw something at it and hope for the best, or you have a unit you don't have to think about to throw at it (stubborn, unbreakable and the like). There is NO WAY you can do this for 30 units while having a turn that lasts less than 5 hours.

To further explain, if it took 1 hour to set up (which seems like a good estimate for 10,000 points on the table unless you're not setting up 1 unit at a time), that leaves you with 20 minutes PER TURN to take care of your own 30 units while planning against your opponent's 30 units. Not to mention the middle of the game where you have 10 combats at once.

Anyone who does play a game this size in 3-5 hours is playing speed-hammer and bashing their army against their opponent's while only using slight tactics.

Foegnasher
04-02-2009, 23:41
For the number of additional units you include in a game, the time required goes up exponentially. This is because you have to think about how every unit interacts with the others to create a benefitial situation. Move up 7" or 8"? Well, it matters.

There is no way that a 5000 point game should take under 5 hours if you're a strategic thinker who isn't just running into your opponent and killing what's available that turn.

Example: There is a knight unit coming up the flank from your opponent's army. You must consider what you're going to do each turn to try and stop it (shooting, magic, movement of baiting units, etc.) unless you're going to just throw something at it and hope for the best, or you have a unit you don't have to think about to throw at it (stubborn, unbreakable and the like). There is NO WAY you can do this for 30 units while having a turn that lasts less than 5 hours.

To further explain, if it took 1 hour to set up (which seems like a good estimate for 10,000 points on the table unless you're not setting up 1 unit at a time), that leaves you with 20 minutes PER TURN to take care of your own 30 units while planning against your opponent's 30 units. Not to mention the middle of the game where you have 10 combats at once.

Anyone who does play a game this size in 3-5 hours is playing speed-hammer and bashing their army against their opponent's while only using slight tactics.

i'll keep a stopwatch on it just for you, DT.

Foegnasher
04-02-2009, 23:43
How would those things take out Grimgor? Doesn't your opponent usually field him in a unit of black orcs where he can't be singled out? (Look out sir for WLCs)


my freind, i got at least two turns to pour on the pain before grimgor waaghs me outta my socks. if i use magic/shooting and stall him with the odd slave unit (he has to persue, his unit hates everyone) i can turn him and keep pour little warpstone bullets/lightning into his unit until it evaporates.

the only problem would be i'd be ignoreing everything else.

Stuffburger
04-02-2009, 23:49
This might not be fair to the skaven but I'd houserule the bell as having an effect on only a certain radius- like 24" or so. The bell is worth way more than it's points value in games that big, and also gets rid of the horrifying (to an O&G at least) whole army panic test.

Foegnasher
05-02-2009, 02:36
a development!

geordie has decided for us to play 5500! i need to add to the list... hmmm....

edit:

ok.. since geordie says he wants special characters, i'm gonna give him one. +500 points to the above lists:

Lord + Hero

Throt the Unclean

special:

4 rat ogres and 4 packmasters

magic items

ws charm taken off of grey seer, replaced with dispel scroll (throt comes with one and i can't have two.)

talisman of protection (i had 15 points left, sue me) added to plague preist.

that makes it 495 models.

the plan is to load one flank with fast moveing moulder stuff, which can use throt's leadership, even though he isn't the general. also, they will have psyche rerolls! a nasty suprise, seeing as how the two characters on that side have killing blow, Throt can even KB trolls!

fastcarfreak
05-02-2009, 05:35
I feel like you should add in another lord. It can really tip the scale in a deciding combat, and is cheap in points if you stick a great weapon on him. Another suggestion would be to put the war banner on the bsb, and put him in a 30-35 strong storm vermin with the batter that allows an extra +1 combat for outnumbering (or is it an extra rank? I dont have the book handy)

If your opponent is playing special characters, you should exchange your grey seer for Thanquol who will change the bell units leadership to 10 and has 13 warpstone tokens!!! and comes with the unbreakable 5 toughnes rat ogre boneripper that can actually be quite the tarpit if you throw him into the side of a unit (exactly where he should be with that flamethrower) If you really want to make a surprise for Mr Grimgor, use Deathmaster snitch.

Foegnasher
05-02-2009, 05:40
I feel like you should add in another lord. It can really tip the scale in a deciding combat, and is cheap in points if you stick a great weapon on him. Another suggestion would be to put the war banner on the bsb, and put him in a 30-35 strong storm vermin with the batter that allows an extra +1 combat for outnumbering (or is it an extra rank? I dont have the book handy)

If your opponent is playing special characters, you should exchange your grey seer for Thanquol who will change the bell units leadership to 10 and has 13 warpstone tokens!!! and comes with the unbreakable 5 toughnes rat ogre boneripper that can actually be quite the tarpit if you throw him into the side of a unit (exactly where he should be with that flamethrower) If you really want to make a surprise for Mr Grimgor, use Deathmaster snitch.


the stormvermin already have the warbanner. i think he might be bringing at least skarsnik, maybe grimgor too. grimgor has a fatal flaw. his unit HATES everyone they face. so i'll be able to make him persue out ahead of his lines and flank him or just blast him to smithereens.

right now my main problem is leadership. away from my general it's a crap shoot. Throt alows me a second "sub general" even it's just the moulder units.

thanquol is hella expensive. i'm going with numbers. they have yet to fail me.

starlight
05-02-2009, 05:53
Have one person there just to take pictures so it doesn't slow your game down with distractions.


Shall I mention the penalties for a lack of pictures...? :angel:

The Red Scourge
05-02-2009, 06:36
I dunno what's going on if a 2250pts game takes over 3 hours in your place...

Beer, food, general chit chat, jokes, rules arguments, more beer, lots of laughs, tactical discussions, some pushing of small plastic figures.

2250 thats 5+ hours of great fun :)

Foegnasher
06-02-2009, 13:21
called geordie yesterday, we decided the following stipulations.

1) 2 tables for the game
2) we will play until there is a clear winner, or one of us gives up
3) we declared what special characters were comeing. (customary in these partss, as usually ANY special characters are normaly verboten, or at least opponents permission only.)

that said, he knows i'm bringing Throt. He's bringing Borgut Facebeater (no worries), The Orc Special character with the high leadership and huge bsb/general's range (his name escapes me, i remember if he takes a wound, he's basically nullified) and Grimgor Ironhide (o.0)

now i am two minds here. teh clanrat in my brain is going "OMFG GRIMGOR I AM SO PHUXXORED!" while the Warlord is thinking "with all those points in characters, i am gonna outnumber this mook 2:1".

i am not so worried about grimgor, there is nothing in warhammer that massed warplightning/jezzails wont fix. but still, it's an impressive array of commanders.

Edit
06-02-2009, 15:55
something is in the air this month, two friends are having a 5500 pt mega dwarf vs DE battle today as they both have the day off, going to go check on them at lunch :)

Foegnasher
06-02-2009, 17:29
something is in the air this month, two friends are having a 5500 pt mega dwarf vs DE battle today as they both have the day off, going to go check on them at lunch :)

man, thos shooting phases are going to be SCAREY.

Malorian
06-02-2009, 17:34
"2) we will play until there is a clear winner, or one of us gives up"

Hopefully your opponent is nice as this could lead to castling. Since he out shoots you and out magics you he could easily turn this into a war of atrition and just blast you for a few extra turns.

I'd really rethink this. 6 turns is all you need, even in big games.


Gorbad was almost a must for such a large game, and as you said, even though Grimgor is scary you have the shooting and throw away points to get half points for the black orcs and then just feed him slaves.

Foegnasher
06-02-2009, 17:38
"2) we will play until there is a clear winner, or one of us gives up"

Hopefully your opponent is nice as this could lead to castling. Since he out shoots you and out magics you he could easily turn this into a war of atrition and just blast you for a few extra turns.

I'd really rethink this. 6 turns is all you need, even in big games.


Gorbad was almost a must for such a large game, and as you said, even though Grimgor is scary you have the shooting and throw away points to get half points for the black orcs and then just feed him slaves.

as a rule, i don't concede. i will fight until the last rat scampers from the table if i must. i dont think it will come to that. i've got plans you see, the wheels are turning, and they are full of rats.

Malorian
06-02-2009, 17:58
Alright... I'll trust you... :)

Looking forward to this report and having thoughts of reading about Gorbad and Grimgor cut down with the fellblade ;)

Nuada
06-02-2009, 17:58
something is in the air this month, two friends are having a 5500 pt mega dwarf vs DE battle today as they both have the day off, going to go check on them at lunch :)

Yeah it is a coincidence. Me and a friend are going for 4,000 points, no magic, or magic items just for a change. Orc v Dwarf. Lots of points spent on infantry, should be good. I'll be using 207 orcs (7 big units), 6 war machines, 2 giants, 30 cavalry(6 units), 4 chariots :)

Foegnasher
06-02-2009, 18:21
Alright... I'll trust you... :)

Looking forward to this report and having thoughts of reading about Gorbad and Grimgor cut down with the fellblade ;)

check the list. i gots no fellblade. gorbad and grimgor will probobly come out squeaky clean, they'll just be by themselves. :)

Foegnasher
08-02-2009, 14:43
i am off. wish me luck.