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CircUs_1943
04-02-2009, 20:25
Well this thread has only one purpose really.
It is to state how cool it would've been if such
a lore had made it into the new Lizardmen book.

So, I thought you all could use your imagination and
think of how the spells would've been if they'd made
it.

:p

Bac5665
04-02-2009, 20:34
I think it would have been bad. And to be clear, I'm a lizzie player.

I'm sick and tired of nearly every race having a lore (or three!!) that are just better than any book lore. I'm tired of a trend that makes it feel like empire just happens to have 8 unique lores. I lizardmen got unique lores, it would finally make the 8 book lores simply human magic, and that feels wrong. I don't want each race to have lores that are simply six good spells from the 8 lores added up. The book lores should be competative and useful. I should want to take them against lists other than dwarves/brets (metal). Either most lists should HAVE to use them, or GW should simply get rid of the BRB lores.

If lizards got one, it would have continued this trend, and continued the cheapening of the BRB lores. I'm strongly against that.

Dokushin
04-02-2009, 20:35
Honestly, as a dedicated LM player, do you know what I would have much, much, much rather had than a unique lore?

Skink Priests that could pick any other lore than the one they start with. I'm not asking for 8 options, or 6, or 4 -- just one other lore that I could bring. Sheesh.

CircUs_1943
04-02-2009, 20:38
I have to agree with what you are saying!
It has become a trend and it shouldn't have, but Lizardmen
deserves a unique Lore, which most races don't. Now that is just
my opinion :)

Neknoh
04-02-2009, 20:43
To be honest, I am saddened by the loss of the lore of Light and the Lore of Metal for Chaos, two of the coolest lores I've ever gotten to use with my chaos army, and I had them for merely a few months before the Get You By list became redundant and the new book came out.

Sure, we've still got heavens, and it is a fairly wicked lore for supporting Knights or casters, but I simply liked the otherones more. I am currently thinking of starting a small other army simply to use the Lore of Light and the Lore of Metal again.

I too feel the shift toward army specific lores replacing the eight lores completely when it comes to what individual players pick and choose from.

Roxors45
04-02-2009, 20:49
Again agreeing with Bac on this one. Too many Lores makes things confusing. After memorizing the BRB, your own army book, some key magic items of other races, most of the spells, and stats the last thing I need is to ask to see your book because I don't know what bolt of change does. Arnt the winds of magic just that? 8 seperate winds that a mage can draw upon for different effects? Who farted and gave Lizzies their own wind?
I think each army should augment how they choose spells in the BRB, not have their own lore. Make them get more or less spells per magic level, different + or - bonuses to casting certain lores/spells, etc. stuff like that. Like deamons could cast all Fire spells at half cost or something ungodly. Or lizards get all spells of one lore and High elves get all spells minus the D6 one (roll a d6, your lvl 4 doesnt have that spell). This way everyone can get accustomed to the lores and theres less options to need to FAQ or cry (GATEWAY IS A CRUTCH!) ABOUT SOMETHING. I appreciate the fluff and whatnot, but my brains full.

O&G'sRule
04-02-2009, 21:03
They should still use high magic, to me it suits them the best

Roxors45
04-02-2009, 21:06
I just dont believe in them inventing their own Lore. Sure, they're great mages so they should get some perk (like my example above with them knowing an extra spell), but too many Lores is garbage. Casting Bonuses, Spell Selection, Magic Items etc. I feel can all represent an army's grasp on Magic.

W0lf
04-02-2009, 21:51
I would have liked to see;

Lore of the slaans;

1. wall of fire
2. the spirit of the forge
3. Pit of shades
4. Commet of cassandora
5. cleansing flare
6. ruination of cities.

That would have been pure awesome.

That or id have given koak that lore and +2 to cast. that would do him justice imo :D

someone2040
05-02-2009, 01:02
Eh, I'm one of the people who was fairly fed up with everyone saying "We need our own lore or even 2" during the major rumour period. Quite honestly, we don't need them, and most of it in fact, isn't that fluffy.

Case in point, Lore of the Old Ones. Only the first generation Slann even had face to face contact with the Old Ones. Not even Mazdamundi was taught by the Old Ones, he was taught by Kroak. You couple that with the fact, that a lot of the power of the Slann has been lost during the years since the great catastophe, I don't see why we need some lore based on beings no-one alive even had contact with.

Lore of Geomancy, again. Most of the powerful magic is done by combined Slann, moving the earth, causing tidal waves, whatever. It was a combined effort by Slann to align the planet how it should be. Mazdamundi was always the Geomancer, and if anyone would get spells like his, well, it should be him alone (And in the end, he only kept one of his Geomancy spells).

But the most important factor is. We don't need to become 'mainstream' and get a unique lore. I mean, it's no longer a special thing, because nearly every race has their own lore (or two or three as mentioned) now.

I think they could've gone a bit further in the magic items or disciplines to show magical mastery. Say a discipline that let's you take a single spell from another lore. Or a magic item that has a bound spell based on an Old One (Potec's Warding, Tepok's Guidance, Quetzl's Rage). But a racial lore? Totally unecessary and I'm glad they didn't put one in.

Dragonreaver
05-02-2009, 01:47
To be honest, I am saddened by the loss of the lore of Light and the Lore of Metal for Chaos

You're lamenting the loss of the Lore of Light for the most obviously EVIL army in the game? Right... sure... yeah... The lore of Metal doesn't seem to make much sense though. Losing it, I mean.


I have to agree with what you are saying!
It has become a trend and it shouldn't have, but Lizardmen
deserves a unique Lore, which most races don't. Now that is just
my opinion :)

Lizardmen pretty much invented magic. ALL of the lores (except Dark Magic, obviously) are 'theirs', when you stop to think about it.

Genrazn
05-02-2009, 01:55
Its more so the fact we dont have access to other lores unless we get a slann which is BS. Especially when a SC Lord Skink Priest Level 2 (Wtf) can use lore of beasts.

SuperArchMegalon
05-02-2009, 02:00
You're lamenting the loss of the Lore of Light for the most obviously EVIL army in the game? Right... sure... yeah... The lore of Metal doesn't seem to make much sense though. Losing it, I mean.



Lizardmen pretty much invented magic. ALL of the lores (except Dark Magic, obviously) are 'theirs', when you stop to think about it.

Both of these things are exactly what I was thinking.

Let's have a look at what armies have their own unique lores:

High Elves: High Magic
Dark Elves: Dark Magic
O&G: Big WAAAGH! and Little WAAAGH!
Skaven: Lore of the Horned Rat
TK: Incantations
VC: Lore of the Vampires, Necromancy
Ogre Kingdoms: Gut Magic
DoC: 3 Daemon Lores
WoC: 3 WoC Lores
BoC: 3 BoC Lores (?)
WE: Lore of Athel Loren

Wow. And who's relegated to the book?
LM, Empire, Bretonnia, and DoW/CD.

In my opinion they should at least drop High Magic, Dark Magic, Skaven Magic, and unify the Chaos Lores.

zan77
05-02-2009, 02:33
I think instead of a new lore for them they should've gotten an extension of the basic lores such as a slann only fire spell or slann only death spell to show their mastery of magic. just one bonus spell to each lore that only they can get.

StarFyreXXX
05-02-2009, 02:48
I think having own lores is good for more options/choice. Players i know with chaos/daemon armies still use the BRB lores for some wizards, etc....it makes sense that way. it doesn't make them useless..it gives more choices where it makes sense. it makes sense chaos has their own spells, so they do, etc.

What doesn't make sense is that the lizardmen are left to only have a choice between the human lores.

Now, read why i call them human lores.

It states right there in the first 2 paragraphs of the BRB magic ssection. These are the concepts of magic based on the elven traditions and what they were able to teach humans. THESE ARE NOT EXACTLY WHAT LORD KROAK taught the elves.

Yes, some foundations are, and should be.

But if you read the type of spells in fluff, or look at the new art in the liz book (mazdamundi art), there are unique spells the liz use.

Mazdamundi had 4 geomancy spells in 5e and 6e wd article yet now he has a nerfed version of 1 of them...they really could have given him those spells as they were fluffy, unique, made sense for him as he should have stuff like that and they weren't super powerful or anything (part water, earthline, ruination, move the mountains)...

Kroak..fine, i can live with what they did since his spell, i have used it and it's pretty damn awesome!!!

Now, we are planning (friends and I) a HUGE recreation of the battle of itza...for it, we need to make some custom rules for kroak and invent new lores for him and other slann to use (we are also going to use the forgeworld demons with their forgeworld stats since we believe the daemons would have even more powerful monstrosities there..hehe, and a We Are Legion type rule, but souped up so that daemons can gate in all over). the goal is for the lizards to last 20 turns or so. We will be playing it in our empty family/dining room (we have a new home and no furniture :P hehe)

ANyways, these are the lores we worked on..they need final touches so please advise if you are experienced in designing lores for your own games....

Lore of the Old Ones

* Arcane blast - 9+ target unit within 24 inches takes 1d6 str 5 hits with no ward saves allowed

* Blessings of the Old Ones - 10+ target unit within 24 inches in close combat, may reroll any failed rolls to hit and wound. The 2nd result stands.

* Shield of the Old Ones - 10+ (remains in play) Target unit within 12 inches gains a 4+ ward save.

* Arcane Gateway - 17+ target friendly unit within 18 inches is removed from play and placed anywhere else within 18 inches. The unit may be placed in any facing desired. A unit can be removed from combat with this spell, but in this case, the unit must be within 12 inches and can only be placed within 12 inches of the caster. A unit moved in this way, may not march on their next movement phase, and suffers -1 on all attacks to hit (ranged or close combat) during their next turn.

* Time Jump - 15+ - target unit within 18 inches can take another phase (movement, shooting, or combat) as if it hadn't done so this turn. Treat this phase as a normal phase (in terms of charges, effects, etc) Multiple castings do not affect the same unit. Until that unit's next turn, the unit suffers -3 on all leadership checks as their minds swoon with the rush of temporal energy. Slann are immune to this effect.

(we need 1 more)

Lore of Geomancy

* Earth Line (as per WD)

* Part the Water (as per WD)

* Move the Mountains (as per WD)

* Crevace - 14+ - select a point on the tabletop. Roll the artillery dice and choose a direction. On a misfire, The spell ends. The # on the artillery dice is the # of inches the crevace rips open. Roll a D6 for each non-flying model, in each unit touching the crevace line. On a 6, that model falls in and is removed as a casualty.

* Ruination of Cities - (kroak only) - give it power levels of 16 and 18 with effects as per the WD magazine in July 2008 with the Battle of Itza report (str 6, and str 7 accordingly with larger radius on each casting value)

* Worldweave (RIP) - 20+ - Add a terrain feature the size of the large template to the board. This feature must not be within 6 inches of any units. As well, this feature must match the general type of terrain onthe board already.

As well, we decided a few custom spells for Kroak along with ruination....we liked the Deliverence spell so that will make an appearance for sure. In addition, we are thinking of a way to simulate his controlling the water to rush overland and sweep away armies of daemons..we have a way similar to crevace rules above. Also a Rain of Fire. thinking str 3 flaming hits, 2d6 to all units (friendly or enemy) within a quadrant of the board... That's all for now. (please help us with casting values if you can)...

I'd imagine, GW would use something similar to the WD articles...

Sanjay

zan77
05-02-2009, 02:55
Like your spells star. I personally think they should make a lore of th old ones for special character slanns and the rest just get a slann only spell added to whatever lore they choose like lets say you choose fire you could have a rain of fire spell and only slann can use it along with the rest of the lore.

StarFyreXXX
05-02-2009, 02:59
Zan77, I like that idea. I can deal with that. Considering i've annoyed enough people here in arguments about should they, should they not give us our own lore or 2...I'd really like it if mazdamundi and kroak had more spells to choose from BUT only them is fine.

Or your idea..a few unique spells but a slann can only choose 1 of them each game..that would be a nice compromise. I find the lack of both of those options very unfluffy, and I'm all about "use the fluff, or get rid of it all".

On a more funny note, time for you all to laugh at me cause i'm sure i just lowered my life span by a few years. I just broke 2 saw blades cutting up a forgeworld slann for my GD entry for Toronto GD this year......who would have thought there would be so much resin dust!!! heheheh (normally i cut resin outside, but it's like -15 or -20 C outside ..hehe)

Sanjay

zan77
05-02-2009, 03:14
thank you for your support star and sorry about your saws lol. i just think lizards should use the basic lores but to prove they are masters of them extend the lore further for them sure 7 spells may be alot but they deserve it. have a few options for each lore like the rain of fire or a magma moat spell. choose between a offence or defence spell.

Kerill
05-02-2009, 04:12
You're lamenting the loss of the Lore of Light for the most obviously EVIL army in the game? Right... sure... yeah... The lore of Metal doesn't seem to make much sense though. Losing it, I mean.



Lizardmen pretty much invented magic. ALL of the lores (except Dark Magic, obviously) are 'theirs', when you stop to think about it.

Lore of light doesn't mean "lore of the good guys" it simply refers to a particular wind of magic. Also one of the previous leaders of the light college was Egrimm Van Horstmann (great dude, but making that speculum was pretty damn stupid).

Gorbad Ironclaw
05-02-2009, 06:51
You're lamenting the loss of the Lore of Light for the most obviously EVIL army in the game? Right... sure... yeah...


You do realise that perhaps the most (in)famous Chaos Mage of recent times was the Grand Master of the Light Order, yeah? Egrimm van Horstmann commanded the Light order for a time, perverted many of there rituals and broke into the vaults underneath the collage building and stole/set free many chaos treasures/beasts.

And of course, it also used to be that the name Light had nothing at all to do with 'good'. It's changed a bit recently but the defining feature used to be how difficult it was to use, as Light magic is pretty rare so you used to have Light wizards lead accolytes into the field of battle to help them focus there magic. Very powerful, but slow and difficult to use. Nothing especially 'good guy' about it. Just as there is nothing evil about the Amethyst college(Lore of Death).

ChaosVC
05-02-2009, 07:56
Lore of Geomancy....hahah!

1. Nice room 3+ to cast
Because the slan funiture is so well positioned it gives of an aura of tranquilty.
All lizardman army don't suffer animosity.

2. Smiling fat Bald idol with monk like cloths. 4+ to cast
Buy summoning the Smiling fat bald idol with monk like cloths, it brings warmth and smile to everyone that touches its fat belly.
All lizardman is happy. They become warmbloodded and are able to smile.

3. The Neverblinking Palm reader! 5+ to cast
The Palm have spoken. Good fortune is foretold by the old one!
Target single lizard get to reroll all unlucky rolls.

4. Wind of fate. 10+ to cast
Timely wind can change one's fate!
All lizardsman can reroll their misses to hit during shooting phase, any successful hit against lizardsman must be rerolled. Last until next friendly magic phase.

5. Water of wealth. 11+ to cast
Wealth flows into your bag like the flow of water in never ending stream.
The Lizardman gets richer! More gold more magic item!

6. The great bonaza! 15+ to cast
Because the Slan have observe great care in positioning the furniture and the Smiling Fat bald Idol wearing the monk gab, visited a master palm reader, Observed the Wind direction and understand the flow of water, Heaven is on his side!!!
Lizardman player auto win! Both player should shake hand and call it a game.

Djekar
05-02-2009, 08:06
I'm a big fan of more reliance on the BRB lores. I think that if we absolutely needed diversity, they could just give everyone with their own lore a free spell instead. For example, in WoC when you give your Sorcerer the MoT, maybe you get Pandemonium or something similar (it's the spell everyone wants anyways, though I'm not sure how overpowered it is since I don't play with the MoMr.T.) instead of the entire lore. But then, that's just kind of off the cuff answer. I don't lose sleep thinking of things like this.

~Puddle

Neknoh
05-02-2009, 09:55
You do realise that perhaps the most (in)famous Chaos Mage of recent times was the Grand Master of the Light Order, yeah? Egrimm van Horstmann commanded the Light order for a time, perverted many of there rituals and broke into the vaults underneath the collage building and stole/set free many chaos treasures/beasts.

And of course, it also used to be that the name Light had nothing at all to do with 'good'. It's changed a bit recently but the defining feature used to be how difficult it was to use, as Light magic is pretty rare so you used to have Light wizards lead accolytes into the field of battle to help them focus there magic. Very powerful, but slow and difficult to use. Nothing especially 'good guy' about it. Just as there is nothing evil about the Amethyst college(Lore of Death).

Indeed, part of my point, the Lore of Light is NOT the Lore of Hope For Mankind That Is Beset Eternally By Chaos. It is the lore of the sun and can be as cruel and harsh as the sun itself or as lifegiving. Heck, have a look at it, half of the spells have rather cruel descriptions on exactly what they do, a hailstorm of burning shards acting like magical arrows, falling from the sky and piercing the bodies of the enemies of the wizard. A wizard extending his hand and throwing out tendrils which reach from his palm and end etched in the eyesockets of men, blinding them (and is probably very painful as well), or turning his eyes into what is essentially a Cyclops weapon. Turning into a shining, almost flaming being with blows of searing light emitting from his hands when he hits you, the corona around him being so powerful that magical weapons does not work against him.

The last two could've even been chaos Mutations for crying out loud.

To name another chaos champion who can be looked at would be to name Aekold Hellbrass, who could breathe life back into the bodies of the dead and by that I mean real life, not undeath, their bodies would stitch together and their illness would be healed. Around him, wounds healed and the touch of him could cure a leper. Where he walked, lush grass with beautiful flowers sprung from the ground.

Being an agent of Chaos does NOT mean you are Chaotic Evil in appearance or abillities, this is not Dungeons and Dragons, in this world of Warhammer, there is no black and white. And as such, I feel the Lore of Light could WELL have stayed with the Warriors of Chaos, I mean, Daemons can use it with a gift, VAMPIRES can use it with a gift... and you are questioning why I feel Warriors should have it? (not you Gorbad, thanky for support :p)

Embalmed
05-02-2009, 10:26
Both of these things are exactly what I was thinking.

Let's have a look at what armies have their own unique lores:

High Elves: High Magic
Dark Elves: Dark Magic
O&G: Big WAAAGH! and Little WAAAGH!
Skaven: Lore of the Horned Rat
TK: Incantations
VC: Lore of the Vampires, Necromancy
Ogre Kingdoms: Gut Magic
DoC: 3 Daemon Lores
WoC: 3 WoC Lores
BoC: 3 BoC Lores (?)
WE: Lore of Athel Loren

Wow. And who's relegated to the book?
LM, Empire, Bretonnia, and DoW/CD.

In my opinion they should at least drop High Magic, Dark Magic, Skaven Magic, and unify the Chaos Lores.

Seconded.

I find Dark Magic to be particularly unnecessary, both it and Lore of Vampires could be replaced with Lore of Death and Athel Loren with Beasts or Life, I can't fathom how they thought it necessary to invent new Lores that appear to have so similar themes.

How about Tzeench = Fire, but nah fire is just crap isn't it. They could've had a BRB Lore for enchanting that Slaanesh could use, but then they would be stuck with the same crud as humans have so that's a no-go.

The Red Scourge
05-02-2009, 10:38
I wouldn't agree with those who think that the unique army lores are redundant. They are cool and adds a little more personality to the individual armies.

The problem is that the army lores are so superior to the basic lores, so that there are no reason to use anything but the army lores.

I mean 4.5 S4.5 hits on a 4+ compared to 3.5 S4 hits on a 5+, or an auto destroy warmachines spell cast on a 8+ etc. etc. etc. Thats just ridiculous.

So if they just tried to keep a certain balance in between the lores everything would be cool in my book :)

Leogun_91
05-02-2009, 10:56
Both of these things are exactly what I was thinking.

Let's have a look at what armies have their own unique lores:

High Elves: High MagicFluffy, it fits the army-

Dark Elves: Dark Magic Hardly necesary, death or shadows could be enough.

O&G: Big WAAAGH! and Little WAAAGH!Fitting for the army. They cast magic in another way than is normal.

Skaven: Lore of the Horned RatFitting, warpstone works differently than wind magic.

TK: Incantations Hard to change their magic system makes them unique.

VC: Lore of the Vampires, Necromancy
Lore of death with extra acces to the necromancy spells could be enough but the necromancy spells are required for the army to play as it should.

Ogre Kingdoms: Gut MagicCould maybe be changed but which lore would fit them.

DoC: 3 Daemon Lores
WoC: 3 WoC Lores
BoC: 3 BoC Lores (?) the god specific ones, it could be fine with normal lores for most and any of the eight for tzeentch as in the get you by WoC list

WE: Lore of Athel LorenCould be removed with treesinging being an extra spell known by all woodelf wizards.


Wow. And who's relegated to the book?
LM, Empire, Bretonnia, and DoW/CD.

In my opinion they should at least drop High Magic, Dark Magic, Skaven Magic, and unify the Chaos Lores.High magic is a combination of all winds and should play differently. Skaven magic uses mainly warpstone and could be different from wind magic.

The Red Scourge
05-02-2009, 11:13
I find Dark Magic to be particularly unnecessary, both it and Lore of Vampires could be replaced with Lore of Death and Athel Loren with Beasts or Life, I can't fathom how they thought it necessary to invent new Lores that appear to have so similar themes.

Lore of Vampires is very much different from the Lore of Death and is what the whole army is based on. The VC book would just be substandard troops without it.

The Lore of Athel Loren is all about the forest, which is only a small part of Life and not even represented by Beasts. To say that it is redundant, is to say that Beast or Life is redundant because of each other.

Neither of these lores are particularly superior to the BRB lores, but they do serve to make the races unique. And trust me, I'd love to choose something else than the Lore of Athel Loren for my hero level casters.

Dark Magic on the other hand is a great example of a Lore that will be picked over any BRB lore 9 out of 10 times.

Embalmed
05-02-2009, 13:12
Lore of Vampires is very much different from the Lore of Death and is what the whole army is based on. The VC book would just be substandard troops without it.

They could still have the Necromancy special spell (Invocation of Nehek) and it would work ok, granted they would not have van Hels but they can do without it.

I think Life is pretty close to the Athel Loren theme, it has stuff that relates to woods, hills, water feature etc all of which presumably can be found in a forest, and weather. Overall it's a very natureish Lore that could easily fit with the WE theme.

My point is really that if these Lores never had existed we wouldn't really have missed them.

Now that they do exist obviously people will find all kinds of reasons why they are necessary for those armies. I bet if Brettonia had it's own Lore and I was suggesting it should be removed someone would say that none of the BRB Lores properly reflects their chivalric background.

zak
05-02-2009, 13:28
Are you an undead player? How about you giving it a go, playing undead using the one spell you specified plus others randomly rolled from the lore of death. Necromancers are taken in VC armies specifically because you can guarantee the Vans Hels spell and without this spell it takes a lot away from your offensive armoury and leaves you with a lot of below-par infantry.

WarmbloodedLizard
05-02-2009, 14:08
I redid the whole Slann. what do you think of it?

Ten Disciplines of the Ancients:

-Focus of Mystery
(one whole lore from the BRB or The Lore of the Old Ones)
-Focused Rumination
(+1 dice per spell)
-Becalming Cogitation
(enemy wizard discards sixes)
-Unfathomable Presence
(MR 3)
-Higher State of Consciousness
(The Slann is Ethereal)
-Transcendent Healing
(Regenerate. At the beginning of each turn roll a D6, on a 6 the slann regains one wound. this can't make the slann gain more wounds than his starting wounds.)
-Soul of Stone
(When the slann miscasts, roll on the Soul of Stone miscast table instead.)
-Harrowing Determination
(The slann may cast any spell as many times as he wants. For each attempt beyond the first the spell's cost is increased by 2 and the slann's chance to miscast increased by 1. [example: 3rd time casting a Fireball: 9+ to cast, miscast on double 1s, double 2s, and double 3s])
-Aura of Exaltation
(Skink priests may take the same lore as the slann, except for the Lore of the Old Ones. Skink priests within 8" of the slann have +1 to cast.)
-Boon of Tepok
(The slann produces an additional PD.)



Soul of Stone Miscast Table:
Roll a D6 to determine the result.

1-2: The power of the spell backlashes. The slann suffers a STR 10 hit. Saves can be taken as normal.
3: Puzzled, the slann realigns with the winds of magic. If the slann has unused PD, 2 of them are lost for this magic phase.
4-5: An eerie silence surrounds the slann. The miscast has no effect.
6: A bright flash of light engulfs the slann. All wizards (friendly and enemy) who have the slann or the unit he is in their line of sight have their line of sight reduced to 12"



Lore of the Old Ones:
(Slann can choose this lore instead of a BRB lore)


Chain Lightning, 5+, magic missle, range 24", line of sight, target is hit with D6 STR 3 hits. if at least one model is killed, the spell hops onto the nearest enemy unit. It is hit with D6 STR 2 hits. If at least one model is killed, the spell hops onto the nearest enemy unit, except for the one already hit. It is hit with D6 STR 1 hits.

Oppression of Will, 7+, Range 24", line of sight, The target enemy or friendly unit is moved D3+1". If a character (or a unit with a caracter in it) is targeted, he takes a leadership test to see if the spell has any effect. If it is used on friendly unit and it comes into contact with an anemey unit this movement is counted as a charge. It can be used to remove a unit from combat.

Shift the Ground, 9+, Move any terrain piece in sight of the caster up to D6". Units in the terrain piece are moved with it. If it comes into contact with a model or another terrain piece, the movement is stopped.

Wrath of the Old Ones, 10+, A huge fireball hits any place on the board within 24". small template, STR4 hits, flaming.

Shield of the Old Ones, 11+, Range 12", confers a D6+ ward save onto the target unit. A 1 rolled counts as a 6. Remains in play.

Ruination of Cities, 13+, see Mazdamundi.



What do you think? some things too strong/crappy? Why?

edit: @Starfyre: I see we had almost the same idea for a Shield of the Old Ones spell :D

Dragonreaver
05-02-2009, 16:28
Yeah, I rescind that comment about the Lore of Light. Fair point.

Dark Magic and Death Magic definately aren't the same, though. Death Magic, as someone else pointed out, is no more evil than any other magic. It just happens to be concerned with the realm of the dead. Dark Magic, on the other hand, is definately evil stuff; it's forbidden just about everywhere, and those that are stupid enough to have dabbled in it (us, mainly) have paid the price. I mean, look at Morathi. Just look at her. And Malekith is 3,000 years old and still living with his mother... that's how popular he is with the ladies. :p It's the opposite of the Lynx Effect.

The Lore of Death is all about killing people. Dark Magic is all about making them suffer (the fact that the current spells don't really reflect that isn't my fault :p). Dark Magic is more similar to the Lore of Pain And Pleasure (I don't know if the Slaanesh lore has changed since the 6th ed Hordes of Chaos book, but it's that lore that I'm reffering to here). Giving Dark Elf magic users access to the Lore of Slaanesh wouldn't really fit though, would it? The EFFECTS would fit, but the wording of the spells themselves are too Chaosy. It would be quite interesting to have Dark Elves using the same spells as Slaaneshi sorcerers, just calling them different names. Would add to the "We don't worship you, Slaanesh. Honest. No, really!" thing that we have going.

The lore of Athel Loren is superfluous to the point of being ridiculous. They have TWO perfectly suitable lores that Wood Elves could use; Life and Beasts. They certainly don't need their own lore. Especially a lore that isn't even that good, so doesn't really provide much benefit anyway. Add Treesinging as a 'all wizards know this' spell. Job done.

The Chaos lores are fair enough, as each God is distinctive enough to 'require' their own spells. The lores in the book are basically elemental or spiritual in nature (Fire and Earth, Light and Darkness, Life and Death). Whereas the Chaos Gods are more about emotions (Change/Ambition/Bettering oneself, Despair/Giving up and accepting the inevitable and Pleasure/Vanity/Indulgence). So they need their own lores to reflect that. You couldn't really have Tzeentch sorcerers using the Lore of Life, could you? He's not into GIVING life, but changing it and making it "better".

Vampires are definately a good candidate for the "all wizards know Spell X", but they'd probably need Invocation AND Raise Dead, since Necromancers that can't raise dead would not be necromancers, would they? Maybe combine the two, and say that Raise Dead can be used to EITHER create a new unit OR 'heal' an existing unit, and can attempt to do each once per magic phase (but it's still only one spell for miscast/spelleating purposes). Then use the Lore of Shadow or Lore of Death, as they're perfect for Vampires and there's no need for a separate lore at all.

The others (Skaven, Ogres and Orcs and Goblins), I don't know much about.
Orcs and Goblins, to my mind, obviously need a different lore as they've never had any contact with either Elves or Humans to learn their magic from. They're shamanistic by nature, not through teaching or by decision (like Wood Elves). So the Lore of Beasts isn't really appropriate. Besides that, O&G magic is funny. The way it should be.

Skaven don't even use the winds of magic at all, do they? It's the Warpstone that they get their magic from. So using the Lores from the book would be entirely inappropriate.

Ogres... no idea, never even read their book. They seem to be quite shamanistic, like Orcs, though. Isn't their wizard called a Butcher, and gets his spells by eating various concoctions and belching spells or something weird like that? In which case... yeah, different lore required!

Have to remember that the rulebook is written from the perspective of the humans (Empire, Brettonians, Kislevites and to a certain extent Vampire Counts). The lores in the book are what the humans have learned from the Elves, how to use the Winds of Magic for their benefit. Therefore, it has little to do with how Orc or Skaven magic works, so races like that need new lores. And Chaos magic obviously comes from their Gods, not the Elves teachings.

The High Elves are hardly going to let an inferior race (even an allied one) know all of their secrets, so they've kept High Magic for themselves, which is fair enough.

Dark Elves weren't supposed to know the things Morathi learned anyway, and have paid dearly for such knowledge. So that DEFINITELY isn't going to be in the book!

So yeah... while I can see where some complaints are coming from (and Wood Elves definately don't need their own lore!), most of the races that have them, do generally need them for lore reasons. And as long as the exclusive lores aren't obviously broken (Dark Magic is powerful, because it should be powerful, but the repercussions of screwing it up are quite dear. :p If it wasn't powerful, there'd be no point in risking it would there? Also, as an FYI, only my Supreme Sorceress ever takes Dark Magic, my normal Sorceresses take Shadow), I see no reason for that to be a bad thing.

In response to the actual thread question... Slaan don't need their own lore, but they should be able to pick and choose any spells from any lore, including High Magic (but not Dark, because let's face it, they just wouldn't) without rolling. Something like that. Skinks should be able to select from any lore in the BRB (possibly also High?).

StarFyreXXX
05-02-2009, 16:53
I still say slann should have their own, at least mazdamundi and kroak. let's face it..the spells they use aren't just the stuff the elves taught humans (ie. the BRB lores).

I still like the other person's idea..a page of custom spells and players could choose 1 each game to use along with a BRB lore. that would be a good compromise if the GW folks are too lazy to design nice lores for us as well.

oh well.

I'm looking forward to 8E, since i'm hoping for a plastic slann kit and a plastic carnosaur/oldblood kit :D

Counting down...6 years or so :P hehe

Sanjay

Desert Rain
05-02-2009, 18:03
I like WarmbloodedLizard's redone Slann. They deserve their own lore more than most other armies do.

TheMav80
05-02-2009, 18:16
Ogres could have theirs reworked so they function more like the the Empire's Warrior Priests. The Butchers always struck me as more of a "Cleric" than a "Wizard".

N810
05-02-2009, 18:21
Wow WarmbloodedLizard,
those are great, and worth spells to be cast by a slan,
and the Disciplines are quite good too...

(Sigh...) if only you worked for GW... :(

Malorian
05-02-2009, 18:38
To me a Lore of the old ones would be full of crazy powerful spells that would force the slann to pretty much only cast one of them a turn. Unfortunately this would mean that scrolls would shut him down, but if the slann gets IF or they run out of scrolls... look out ;)


Malorian's Lore of the Old Ones:

1. Master of thunder: (Magic missile) D3 units within line of site take 2D6 str 4 hits distributed like shooting. 12+ to cast.

2. Master of earth: All enemy units within 3D6 of the caster take 2D6 str 3 hits and any unit that takes a wound moves at half rate during their next turn. 12+ to cast.

3. Master of metal: Pick a unit within 24 inches. They lose all mundane armor and weapons. 12+ to cast.

4. Master of life: Pick a friendly unit within 12 inches. D6+4 previously killed saurus or skinks may be returned back to the unit. 12+ to cast.

5. Master of magic: (Remains in play) All spells cast are at a -3 modifier and any doubles count as miscasts. Bound items must first roll a 5+ to be used. 12+ to cast.

6. Master of time and space: D3 friendly units within 12inches may make another movement. This may be a regular move, a march, or a charge. 12+ to cast.


(Feel free to test it out. Just send the royalties to me :p )

Chaos Mortal
05-02-2009, 19:02
not bad wrm blooded but not all are equal at all for 50pts ie a pd for 50pts? perhaps 2 or 3 and cant be used with free dice ability, slaans ahould also be able to use skink priests power dice.

The SkaerKrow
05-02-2009, 19:23
Lizardmen do have their own magic. It's just ritual magic, not battle magic, and therefore does not factor into games of Warhammer.

Dokushin
05-02-2009, 19:56
Ooh, I want to try.

If I was going to rejig the LM magic phase, I'd probably do something like this:

Slaan: As Armybook. Replace Disciplines with:

Focus of Mystery: The Slaan knows 6 spells.
The Focused Rumination: The Slaan may add a free power die to a spell attempt.
Becalming Cogitation: Nominate enemy wizard within 24" at start of enemy magic phase; that wizard discards all 6s.
Unfathomable Presence: Magic resistance (3).
Ancient Artificer: At the beginning of each of your turns, nominate a 'One Use Only' magic item that has been used and roll a D6. On a 3+, the item may be used again exactly as if it were never used.
Unwavering Determination: At the beginning of the game, after spells are chosen, nominate one spell known by the Slaan. The Slaan may cast this spell twice per magic phase.
Focus of Power: At the beginning of any of your magic phases, you may nominate any number of level 2 Skink priests. These priests lose all of their power die. For each priest so nominated the Slaan gains 1 power die.
Master of Cycles: The Slaan gets +1 to cast and dispel.
Council of Sages: The Slaan may, after spell selection is complete, forget one spell and roll for one spell on the Lore of Geomancy.
Soul of Stone: The Slaan may adjust his own miscast results by up to 3.
Mind of Iron: The Slaan may attempt one spell per turn without dispelling a Remains in Play spell he is maintaining.


Lore of Geomancy

Fault Line: line from caster to table edge. Does not hit units within 3". S7 hit, D6 wounds. 15+
Storm Rage: large template within 24". Each model hit must fail an armor test or take S5 hit with no armor save. Affected units move half next phase. 15+
Magma Pool: small template within 24". Initiative test; if failed, S7 hit D3 wounds. If pass, S6 hit D3 wounds. 15+
Sunscorch: All units within 8" receive -2 to WS and take d6 S2 hits with no armor save. 15+
Cliffbreak: Add or remove one hill no larger than 8" within 24". Units touching a collapsing hill take 2D6 S4 hits. 15+
Ruination of Cities: See Mazda

Additional Magic items:

Stone Shard of Itza: Bound spell power 5. If cast successfully the bearer may add one power die to the power die pool. 40 points.

Serpent Tablet: Skink priest only. The Priest may use lore of beasts instead of the lore of the heavens. The bearer knows one additional spell and may reroll one casting attempt per turn for spells from the Lore of Beasts. 50 points.

Star Prism: Skink priest only. The Skink priest may instead of the lore of heavens take the lore of fire, lore of metal, lore of life, or lore of light. 25 pts

Earth-Crystal of the Old Ones: One use only. The next spell successfully cast counts as having Irresistible force. If the next spell attempt results in a miscast, remove the bearer from play as a casualty, with no saves of any kind allowed. 50 pts.

The Star-Channeled Chariot: Slaan only. The Slaan has flying. 75 pts.



Man, that's fun...

WarmbloodedLizard
05-02-2009, 20:11
not bad wrm blooded but not all are equal at all for 50pts ie a pd for 50pts? perhaps 2 or 3 and cant be used with free dice ability, slaans ahould also be able to use skink priests power dice.

1 dice= 2 dice --> A powerstone each turn for 10pts apiece... I think thats alright.
2 dice = 4 --> a "little" too good :wtf:

the same goes for skink powerdice.

It should still stay balanced, you know :D

StarFyreXXX
05-02-2009, 22:40
Skaercrow.also false.

They do hav ebattle magic. stuff kroak used at the battle of itza, the spell tepec inzi i think his name is used when he got the star stella back, mazdamundi has used stuff before as well.

They do HAVE it..we just don't get a sampling of it other than kroak's spell :)

Sanjay

zan77
06-02-2009, 02:03
Also during the fall a slann named chippotti? i think it was. anyways he was taught by tepok i believe and cast a spell that rid the southlands of the daemons but died in doing so.

StarFyreXXX
06-02-2009, 02:45
Yes, he cast a spell similar to Kroak's Deliverance but maybe even more powerful. It destroyed every daemon on the entire southlands continent but the energy he used took his life force as well.

Sanjay

zan77
06-02-2009, 03:08
Poor first generations. they will be missed. Im hoping for eighth edition they make another slann special character from the second generation and bonus spells slann use. I really want bonus spells for each lore. off the top of my head Rain of fire 15+ causes fire to rain down on a portion of the field causing 2d6 str 4 wounds counts as flaming in a determined radius. or a shield of heavens that protects a unit from everything for one turn but that unit cannot attack or a wrath of the ones for a special character like maz that is extremely hard to cast and can potentially wipe a unit out or seriously hurt you.

Lord-Caerolion
06-02-2009, 04:01
Dark Magic needs to be kept in, as it doesn't use the Winds in a normal way, neither does High Magic. They blend the Winds together, although Dark is more of "crumple the Winds together, then use the highly dangerous stuff it made". Vampires use a type of Dark Magic too, but have focussed their Dark Magic down a certain path, rather than general use of it.

zan77
06-02-2009, 04:20
Heres a thought. what if the slann had a spell they could use in combat? like if they are attacked since they cant really fight back physically give them a spell they can use to fight and fight back with like a blast made from raw magic that does a str 3 hit or something.

ChaosVC
06-02-2009, 06:38
Heres a thought. what if the slann had a spell they could use in combat? like if they are attacked since they cant really fight back physically give them a spell they can use to fight and fight back with like a blast made from raw magic that does a str 3 hit or something.

Isn't that called a skink pet?

Gabacho Mk.II
06-02-2009, 10:32
Slaan: As Armybook. Replace Disciplines with:

Focus of Mystery: The Slaan knows 6 spells.
The Focused Rumination: The Slaan may add a free power die to a spell attempt.
Becalming Cogitation: Nominate enemy wizard within 24" at start of enemy magic phase; that wizard discards all 6s.
Unfathomable Presence: Magic resistance (3).
Ancient Artificer: At the beginning of each of your turns, nominate a 'One Use Only' magic item that has been used and roll a D6. On a 3+, the item may be used again exactly as if it were never used.
Unwavering Determination: At the beginning of the game, after spells are chosen, nominate one spell known by the Slaan. The Slaan may cast this spell twice per magic phase.
Focus of Power: At the beginning of any of your magic phases, you may nominate any number of level 2 Skink priests. These priests lose all of their power die. For each priest so nominated the Slaan gains 1 power die.
Master of Cycles: The Slaan gets +1 to cast and dispel.
Council of Sages: The Slaan may, after spell selection is complete, forget one spell and roll for one spell on the Lore of Geomancy.
Soul of Stone: The Slaan may adjust his own miscast results by up to 3.
Mind of Iron: The Slaan may attempt one spell per turn without dispelling a Remains in Play spell he is maintaining.


Lore of Geomancy

Fault Line: line from caster to table edge. Does not hit units within 3". S7 hit, D6 wounds. 15+
Storm Rage: large template within 24". Each model hit must fail an armor test or take S5 hit with no armor save. Affected units move half next phase. 15+
Magma Pool: small template within 24". Initiative test; if failed, S7 hit D3 wounds. If pass, S6 hit D3 wounds. 15+
Sunscorch: All units within 8" receive -2 to WS and take d6 S2 hits with no armor save. 15+
Cliffbreak: Add or remove one hill no larger than 8" within 24". Units touching a collapsing hill take 2D6 S4 hits. 15+
Ruination of Cities: See Mazda

Additional Magic items:

Stone Shard of Itza: Bound spell power 5. If cast successfully the bearer may add one power die to the power die pool. 40 points.

Serpent Tablet: Skink priest only. The Priest may use lore of beasts instead of the lore of the heavens. The bearer knows one additional spell and may reroll one casting attempt per turn for spells from the Lore of Beasts. 50 points.

Star Prism: Skink priest only. The Skink priest may instead of the lore of heavens take the lore of fire, lore of metal, lore of life, or lore of light. 25 pts

Earth-Crystal of the Old Ones: One use only. The next spell successfully cast counts as having Irresistible force. If the next spell attempt results in a miscast, remove the bearer from play as a casualty, with no saves of any kind allowed. 50 pts.

The Star-Channeled Chariot: Slaan only. The Slaan has flying. 75 pts.




Now this is what I was picturing the Slann to be in 7th ed.

Something more along the lines of matching and beating the Daemon/and/Chaos spell lists.

Gabacho Mk.II
06-02-2009, 12:02
All of the above posters have made valid suggestions as to what a Slann lore would look like. Very well done.

[shame on GW for not spending a little more effort on this valuable piece of fluff that would have gone a long way for this army]






Ok, let me add my take on this subject... ;)


I would have given the Slann 2 different lores: A Will of the Old Ones list, and a Divinity List [think little and Big Waaagh!]





In addition to Disciplines...


The following rules apply to the Slann:

M4, Ws1, Bs0, S2, T5, W5, I2, A1, Ld9 [or thereabouts]

-- Slann are considered to be Level 4 Wizards but generate 2 Power Dice and 2 Dispel Dice
-- Slann choose one Will of the Old Ones spell and roll randomly for their remaining 3 spells
-- Slann know one randomly rolled Divinity spell
-- Enemy wizards attempting to dispel a spell cast by a Slann subtract 3 from the total of the sum of their roll
-- Slann cause Fear
-- Large Targets
-- Regenerate
-- All Slann gain a +1 to casting and dispeling
-- Slann cast up to 3 spells per magic phase - 1 Divine Spell, 2 Will of the Old Ones spells
-- If a Miscast is rolled, a single dice that rolled a "1" may be picked up and rolled again, with the second roll being final
-- Slann can be given a single plaque
-- Slann can only be harmed by magical weapons and spells



> 5th Generation = Slann knows one additional Will of the Old Ones spell
> 4th Generation = Slann generates an extra power and an extra dispel dice
> 3rd Generation = Slann add +1 to their roll when dispelling and casting [for a total of +2 to dispel and cast]
> 2nd Generation = Slann ignores all Miscast rolls [Miscasts are treated as a failed casting only]



[All generations are cumulative, thus a 3rd Generation Slann knows an extra spell, generates extra dice and adds a +2 to casting and dispelling].





Will of the Old Ones

> 4+ Pick a single friendly unit within 18" that will gain +1 to hit in close combat or in shooting
> 5+ Nominate one friendly unit within 18" that will gain +1 Strength in close combat or in shooting
> 6+ All friendly units within 12" count as being Unbreakable till the beginning of the next Lizardmen turn
> 6+ One enemy unit within 18" suffers 2D6 S5 hits, flammable attacks
> 7+ Choose one friendly unit within 24" that can make an additional move, which can be either a regular move, a march move or a charge
> 7+ Choose a single friendly unit within 24" which will gain a D3+1 combat resolution bonus in the upcoming close combat phase

Gaargod
06-02-2009, 12:31
Gabacho, that Will of the Old Ones is an insane list. Seriously, magic missle with 18" rnage that does 2D6 S5 flaming hits on a 6+??? And making attempts to dispel a Slann suffer a -4 in effect (-3 from their attempt and +1 To Slann's attempt) is so bad i wouldn't ever inflict it on my opponents. No offence, but its way too powerful

I think WarmbloodedLizard list is reasonable. Certainly the disciplines are better than currently.

Personally though, i think the BRB lists are fine for a Slann. Just let them pick (operative word 'pick') their spells from any list. Gives them the reliability they didn't have in 6th ed, still makes them able to do whatever they want and also fits quite well. Taking the discipline of 'know whole lore' could change into 'know a whole lore in addition to whatever spells you pick'. Sounds quite good, but compare it to for example the Daemon 25pt gift Mastery of Sorcery, which allows them to know a whole lore they don't usually even get access to, or Plaque of Tepok which gives them an extra spell for 15pts.

Gabacho Mk.II
06-02-2009, 15:59
...
I think WarmbloodedLizard list is reasonable. Certainly the disciplines are better than currently.


Oh you are right. I totally agree with you here.

Most certainly there are many gamers who can, with a little effort, come up with a strong and viable list for the Slann to use. GW, on the other hand, took the easy way out and decided to rather make the 7th ed Slann a gimmick that nowhere near matches anything in the fluff.



And concerning my listing, I was going for the Over The Top feel in order to precisely make the point that indeed a magic user can be so strong, so powerfully put that it (the Slann) would indeed look good on paper as well as on the gaming table.

While I do not profess to be anywhere near a rules writer, I certainly do not think that the Slann was made anywhere near what GW could and should have given for the Lizardmen armylist in terms of a magical lore.


If GW could not come up with something in earnest, then they should/must re-write the fluff so that "a single Slann holding out for weeks against 12 Greater Daemons!!!" does not appear at every single climax in the given fluff.




[[[let me finally add that I somewhat believed that GW might take the route of not giving the Slann a new lore but allowing the Slann to pick/choose which spells it wants from the 8 basic lores. I strongly felt that the Slann could pick all 4 of its spells (assuming that it remained a 4th level wizard) from any given lore, and these in turn could be cast throughout the course of the battle.... This INDEED would have given the Slann a strong, more believeable aspect to the Lizardman player, and would have gone a loooooooonnnnnnnng way to making the Slann a formidable powerhouse.... Nothing short of having the exact spell for the exact enemy that the Lizardmen host was to fight. Man that would have brought tears to my eyes!]]]

CircUs_1943
06-02-2009, 23:49
Holy baloney!

When I started this thread I didn't expect this many answers.
Now I just got home and got to work tomorrow morning so I don't
have the time to read it through, but I'll do it as soon as possible!

keep going everyone!

Nicha11
07-02-2009, 00:00
Personnaly i believe Mazamundi should be 850pts, not on a steg.

But he knows every spell in the BRB and high magic.

He also gets +2 pd to cast each spell and when he miscats you roll 3 dice, if over the current miscast table their is no effect.

Sarevok
07-02-2009, 00:36
In the HE book it says Teclis is is the greatest (living) spellcaster in the world.
Only Nagash is said to be "on a par" with him.

Nicha11
07-02-2009, 00:41
In the HE book it says Teclis is is the greatest (living) spellcaster in the world.
Only Nagash is said to be "on a par" with him.

I think Maz could give them both a run for thier money.
And maybe even Kroak.

Lugburz
07-02-2009, 01:08
I'm glad Lizardmen didn't get an new lore. I'm starting to get tired of all those stupid army lores popping up.

I love being able to pick all spells from any school of magic, and casting them with an extra d6. Weeeee. Ultimate flexibility! :p

StarFyreXXX
07-02-2009, 01:22
See that makes no sense.. WHy say you'd rather not have it, as you always have the choice NOT to use it.

Like i said, i know chaos players who use fire, death, and beasts...
they at least have CHOICE to use their own.

Choice is always better than no choice.

Sanjay

Desert Rain
07-02-2009, 20:56
In the HE book it says Teclis is is the greatest (living) spellcaster in the world.
Only Nagash is said to be "on a par" with him.
And in the lizardmen book it says that the slann are mightier that the elven loremasters. Teclis being the best one is just high elves propaganda;)

Leogun_91
07-02-2009, 23:16
See that makes no sense.. WHy say you'd rather not have it, as you always have the choice NOT to use it.

Like i said, i know chaos players who use fire, death, and beasts...
they at least have CHOICE to use their own.

Choice is always better than no choice.

Sanjay For that choice I have to sacrifice having mark of Tzeentch on my sorcerers (which feels wrong as it is now reserved for exelted heroes and units) for as soon as i take that mark I must use that lore.

StarFyreXXX
07-02-2009, 23:17
Yes but you atleast HAVE that choice....

i'm just saying it's better to have the choices, than to not have them. You can choose to take the mark or not.

Sanjay

Gabacho Mk.II
20-02-2009, 19:05
*shameful bump*

:)

Gork or Possibly Mork
20-02-2009, 20:19
Here's my version of a lost lore of the old ones. I posted this in the rules dev forum but know one post there or thought it was crap.

Slann Options
A Slann may pick one spell from the lost lore of the old ones in addition to the lore they normally pick from the BRB this spell replaces one from the BRB lore. Choose which after rolling for BRB spells. Note: The Slann can only know one spell from the Lost Lore of the Old Ones whether it has the Focus of mystery discipline or not. It will always know only one spell from the Lost Lore of the Old Ones. The only way a Slann can know more than one spell from the Lost Lore of the Old Ones is through the use of the Arcane Items presented below.

Arcane Items

Lost Plague of the Old Ones - 60 Pts. The Slann must choose four spells from Lost Lore of the Old Ones and may not know any other spells and cannot take the Focus of Mystery Disipline or any other Arcane Items except powerstones and dispel scrolls.

Golden Palanquin - 100 pts. Counts as a Palanquin in all respects with the following abilites. The Slann may only cast spells from the BRB as normal and any bound spells the Golden Palanquin itself contains.

Power of the Ancients: At the beginning of each friendly magic phase the Slann may choose to activate one of the following abilites. You must choose a different one each turn. These abilities remain in effect for one turn and may not be nullifed in any way except for the bound spells which may be dispelled as normal.

1.Portal of the Old Ones: The Slann teleports and may move up to 20" away ( even if engaged in combat ). anywhere on the battlefield but atleast 1" away from any units.
2.Supreme Shield of the Old Ones: The Slann gains a 3+ wardsave against all attacks this turn.
3.Spirit of the Old Ones: The Golden Palanquin contains all spells from the Lost Lore of the Old Ones. Cast one randomly determined spell as a bound spell at Power(5) this turn. Roll a D6 to detemine just like rolling for spells.

LOST LORE OF THE OLD ONES


10+..The Fiery Coatl: Target one enemy unit within 20" and visible to the caster .The Fiery Coatl inflicts D3+4 S3+D3 Flaming attack hits. If the enemy unit suffers a wound it must take a panic test. Units Immune to Psychology do not have to test.

11+..Time Warp: Target one enemy unit within 24" and visible to the caster. Roll a D6, On a roll of 4+ the unit suffers from Stupidity this turn. Including characters in the unit.

12+..Sacred Ground : All friendly units within 12" of the Slann gain Regeneration this turn. All enemy units within 12" of the Slann suffer D6 S4 hits. Daemons and Undead units suffer D6 S6 hits with no saves allowed. This spell may be cast even if engaged in combat.

13+..Purge Enchantment:Target one enemy unit within 18" and line of sight. The opposing player must reveal all magic items the unit has. If sucessfully cast roll a D6. On a roll of 1-4 all items in the target unit are nullifed this turn. On a roll of 5 one item ( Casting player chooses ) is destroyed and all other items in the target unit are nullifed this turn. On a roll of 6 all items in the target unit are nullifed for the rest of the game.

14+..Psychic Duel: Target one enemy wizard within 18" and line of sight. If cast sucessfully roll a D6. On a 4+ the target wizard loses a spell chosen by the casting player and cannot cast it for the rest of the game.
On a roll of 2-3 the target wizard takes a S4 hit. On a roll of 1 the Slann takes a S4 hit.

15+..Whirling Cyclone: Place the small round 3" template within 6" and visible to the caster. Then move it 3D6 in any direction visible to the caster. Place a marker where the center of the template ends it's move. From the marker, the template ( center over marker ) then moves D6 in a randomly determined (scatter dice) direction. It may go through multiple units. Any unit it touches ( including friendly units ) suffers 2D6 S4 hits with no armoursaves allowed.

Necromancy Black
20-02-2009, 22:52
I think most people here got the same ideas as me about what these two Lores should be if we ever got them..

Old Ones should be buffs and support magic. Geomancy should be mostly offensive with maybe some de-buffing of the enemy.

I still love the BRB Lores. What I reakon if should be, however, is a Slann has a combination of BRB and Lizardmen Lores. You get 4 spells, say three from a single BRB Lore and the final one from either Geomancy or Old Ones. That way you can really make the Lore of the Old Ones and Gemoancy powerful.

Let them have this extra spell even if they take all spells from a single Lore (so 7 spells) and if they take the plaque of Tepok they can use it to take a second spell from whatever Lizardmen Lore they choose.

It's fluffy as these old and highly powerful spells are not going to be mastered but a single Slann with ease but they can still cast them. And with all the direct rerolls and saves people have suggested for Old Ones (more so then heavens) and offensive power of Geomancy, they would really compliment the LM magic phase.

And of course this lets Mazdamundi take the entire Lore of Geomancy!