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Malorian
05-02-2009, 15:00
Yesterday I had a game with my wood elves against another wood elve player. Whereas my army was the run around and shoot type, the other was magic and combat based.

To sum things up, the other player went first but with waywatchers march blocking, and then in the second turn glade guard/hawks baiting, the combat WE weren't going anywhere. On my seond turn my archers almost completely wiped out the ternal guard which then failed panic and ran, my hail of doom got the full 18 shots and wiped out a large dryad unit, a unit of glade riders wiped out half her archers in combat, and my waywatchers killing blowed the Lvl 4 mage.

At this point it was almost pointly for them to go on and it was a turn two surrender, and it was clear that my opponent was very depressed. I tried:

-talking about how lucky I was
-how the dice were just against her
-how their other army would have done better
-about their work

But each time my opponent just muttered something and kept packing their dead away, still depressed.

So what do you say when you've crushed someone? Or is it better to say nothing at all?

(For reference this is a common player in my local group.)

Roxors45
05-02-2009, 15:04
I charge a unit of Glade riders into her Wardancers. Sacrifice some VPs at the expense of your massace. Then talk about how lucky your die rolls were and how much she raped your Glade Riders. The key here is to bring up all the things YOU did, not her, so as to make things seem her fault, only depressing her further. So talk about YOUR luck, and how YOUR list was built to play against a static army like hers. She'll feel less bad about her tactics/army choice and think more she didnt have a chance in the first place.

Lord Inquisitor
05-02-2009, 15:07
It can be tough. With a turn 2 surrender, just offer to play again. A turn 2 defeat usually means there's not much anyone could do.

Honestly, though, I wouldn't try and molly-coddle them too much. It's not much fun being brutalised on the tabletop, but sympathy from the player smashing your face into the dirt isn't often well-received.

If you have a total game-over situation early on, just suggest you restart and try again. If you're playing a relatively new player, then tactics like march-blocking or dancing around with skirmishers can be very frustrating, so you might avoid using these tactics too much.

Wait a minute ... "her"? :eek:

Condottiere
05-02-2009, 15:14
It depends on the relationship you have with that player, and on the general ambiance.

Inviting them out to have a coffee or some other refreshment might be the best course, and in the supposed relaxed atmosphere sharing drinks engenders, should dissolve any hard feelings harboured.

semersonp
05-02-2009, 15:15
you do what you do every game...

have fun while playing, cheer at impressive events ( a well placed heavy cav unit slamming into a hitherto unmolested flank, a fallen giant crushing a poor unit champ who fails his 'look out sir' roll, teclis avoiding certain death when a '1' is rolled to wound him and the killer bolt rips through his billowing cape, etc ), roll dice with fervor and a lack of fear, move through turns smoothly and quickly but never hurriedly, etc etc and at the end of the game no matter what happens on the field you smile, shake hands and say "good game" to your opponent because both of you have played this way and all is joyous...

then you both pack up while discussing life, the game you just played and future plans of modification your generals are already cooking up to better save their precious soldiers...

when it comes to newer or less successful fellow players it never hurts to add to this by explaining no one wins warhammer consistently their first few battles... talk about how you would've done things and tell them not to copy this but use it as a reference from which to develop their own framework to the game...

work with them... dont coddle for then you ensure their crippling - i just cant roll well, i only play all ng forces, etc etc... help explain the game and what brings success to your troops and they will begin to see the lines... then they will begin to be competitive in their own right...

smiles, fun and politeness throughout the game, handshakes and "good game" after the game... every game

then discussion... which will yield a better game next game, every game...

o... + rare burgers and cold beer... that never hurts :)

Harwammer
05-02-2009, 15:19
Sometimes games just don't work out. I remember once I lost my beastlord at turn 1 in an ambush heavy army. That made me lose over 1k points worth of troops in a 2k game before my turn 2 had even begun.

In situations like this it is probably best to just write the game off and offer a rematch. Avoiding using point sink unts is a good way of trying to prevent these games from happening.

Finnigan2004
05-02-2009, 15:20
I hate it too Malorian. The worst case that I've ever been involved in was against a really nice teenage kid who is really eager to learn the game (still). I had played him a few times, and the place where we played is an environment where tournaments usually involve really tough armies. We were playing a touranment, so no one knew who they'd be matched up with. I showed up with my old school daemonic legion, all Khorne force. He had his brand new high elf army, complete with brand new ASF.

I got matched with him right off the bat, and I quietly asked the organizer if he really wanted to match up a frenzied khorne daemon force-- complete with a bloodthirster-- against him in the first round. The organizer said he couldn't change it, so we matched up. I deployed my force, and he got first turn. He march moved the entire army up, knowing my stuff was frenzied, and convinced that ASF would wipe me out. I told him that I might do it differently (we know each other, so giving pointers is pretty much o.k.), but he was just so certain of ASF.

Well, I could only hold back so much because he knew my stuff had to charge, so he quickly found out that baiting ten strong units of flesh hounds (even the old style ones) is a bad idea with high elf spears. He even managed to bait one into a combined flank charge. It then proceeded to kill two more units on overruns, rolling his whole left flank. The final result was the most disgusting massacre I've ever seen anyone rack up (every model dead by turn 3). It was a scenario, and the way that the victory points were calculated I won by over 2500 points (seriously). I would have fudged the calculation, but he was also computing it. Mercifully, the whole game was over in about thirty minutes, so we had time to just talk about it while waiting for the next round.

We played again a few weeks later, and I suggested that since he was just getting used to learning the new army, we could play a last stand to let him learn a bit about how the units moved and such. Now, not everyone is amenable to taking advice, etc.; but I've found that as long as you act like a good sport people will react better. No easy answer, but I think sportsmanship is always the key. Offer advice where applicable, a rematch if they want (with a somewhat different list), if it's a friend or clubmate go to lunch or something.

Malarowski
05-02-2009, 15:21
Your opponent will get over it. I would not worry too much about it. Maybe go over the army list together or discuss how stuff could have been done better. If it could not just offer a regame, the dice will roll different and maybe the outcome will change. Also your opponent might act differently.

Foegnasher
05-02-2009, 15:24
point and laugh.

actually, i tell my oppnents that 1) i will not quit, and 2) i wont let up, and i expect the same from them.

if i have only one unit of clanrats at the end of the game, i expect you to be trying to kill it.

I tabled a guy on the bottom of six a few weeks ago and didn't feel bad about it at all. we had a good discussion about tactics and strategey, and what he could have done different.

Malorian
05-02-2009, 15:30
Wait a minute ... "her"? :eek:

Damn I was trying to keep that out, but I see I missed it in one line.

This is a regular player, but one that actually refussed to play against me for a while because I won too much, so I try fairly hard to keep good relations and be a bit nicer when I play this person.

A rematch would have been out of the question. All my opponent wanted to do was pack up and leave.


In a tournament scene it's good to know how to ease an opponent's loss for sportsmenship scores, but when it's in your own local group it's almost more important as hard feelings can lead to trouble/break down of the group.

kaimarion
05-02-2009, 15:37
Just say "Good game" then shake their hand and try to be nice to them without being patronising.
I can't really think of anything else to say but just try and be friendly to her.

Lordy
05-02-2009, 15:50
I think it would be easier to answer this if we had a pic of the player in question :D

Neckutter
05-02-2009, 15:52
i usually bring up all the extremely lucky things that happened in the game, that neither of us had control of as a basis for my win. for example, i was playing a game with my WoC against an opponent's WoC and we were playing very similar lists. i, however, was rolling extremely well(like getting 12 S10 hits with infernal gateway several times, and getting 12 hits with the scream ability, or the time i irresistably casted flames of tzeentch on a unit with MR(2), and got 7 S6 hits). at any rate, i just said it is up to the dice.

also when i play with or against daemons or my VC i inform them that the army crushes people utterly and to not feel so bad when it happens.

Zoolander
05-02-2009, 15:52
Mal,

There is nothing you can do. The best thing is to simply try to make sure she understands that there was a lot of luck involved, and that your win wasn't that big of a deal. I usually make a joke about it, saying how the dice gods favor me, or how I prayed before the game, or something along those lines. But honestly, if she's that depressed over a game, I'd recommend a new hobby. But I respect you even more for trying!

Personally, I believe you fabricated the entire story, because everyone knows there are no female Warhammer players. :p

darkace77450
05-02-2009, 15:54
I scream "Yeeeaaah!!!!" as I climb onto the tabletop and proceed to thrust my crotch in their direction over and over again with my tongue sticking out ala Michael Jordan.

Just kidding. I actually am apologetic that game wasn't competitive if the dice/luck are just against them from the outset (we all hate when this happens, but it does happen on occasion).

If it is just a pure mismatch of abilities then I usually recognize this early in the game and pull back on the reigns a bit and try to subtly give them tactical advise as the game proceeds (but this can seem condescending at times I'm sure :( ) then give them pointers on armies after the game.

Buckero0
05-02-2009, 15:57
if I beat someone that quickly, I'd offer to play another game. I just wish I'd have my "lucky" games against really good players, instead of the newbies.

The Red Scourge
05-02-2009, 16:05
Don't I know it. My 'broken powercreepy wood elves of über cheese' has made a habit of massacring their opponents 9 out of 10 times. Most of the times it is a good game, but I've had a turn two conceit and some more drawn out games, where my opponent didn't get half a chance, and those times leave you with a bad aftertaste.

Let them sulk and wallow in selfpity for a few minutes, then go out for a beer or two (our house rule says that winners buy the first round:cries:). And then take time to discuss the game, good moves, bad moves and luck vs statistics. Remember that some games are just poor

During games, don't feel to proud/secretive to discuss your opponents tactics or yours for that matter. My most regular opponent and I usually do this, and even though we almost never heed each others advice, this creates a very non-competitive atmosphere and is great for improving tactical abilities.

The SkaerKrow
05-02-2009, 16:10
Be gracious and friendly, and then talk about something else. Games like that don't merit conversation afterwards. Trying to assuage their bruised ego will most likely come off as being patronizing.

Ophidian
05-02-2009, 16:11
I've never won a game, what's that feel like?

edit: my opponent normally uses some variation on "suck it"

gonzosbignose
05-02-2009, 16:14
I find that dinner, maybe back to yours for another bottle of wine and then an evening hugging, discussing paint schemes would be a good way to go.

Maybe invest in a unit of dryads and paint them together... and just generally smoothly talk your way into her good books.

Perhaps a ring... 24 roses...

This should pull you out of the problems your having!

Regards

My name is Daniel and i am a wargamer

Dalrik
05-02-2009, 16:14
If you can't handle losing a game you shouldn't be playing. Very few people master a game when they just start playing. Losing is part of learning (granted no one like s to lose) from your mistakes and getting better in this way.

There are a few people in my group that I hate playing against because they are bad. losers.

theHandofGork
05-02-2009, 16:14
I'd offer a second game.
I was tabled against a DE player several weeks ago within three turns. I asked the other player (who is very good, to be honest) about what went wrong and how i could improve. Then I asked if we could play again and tried to correct the mistakes I made the first game. The second game went much better.
I think a lot of what your response should be is determined by the other player. If they are going to sulk, then you really can't do much about it.

The SkaerKrow
05-02-2009, 16:17
If you can't handle losing a game you shouldn't be playing.Losing a full game and having your army wiped out on Turn Two are two completely different things. I've seen some of the calmest, most seasoned Warhammer players that I know get a bit rattled when their army is effectively destroyed before Turn Three. It's hard to fault someone for having that response, because it's such an unexpected and unpleasant turn of events.

Dalrik
05-02-2009, 16:33
Losing a full game and having your army wiped out on Turn Two are two completely different things..

Losing is losing

Malorian
05-02-2009, 16:33
I find that dinner, maybe back to yours for another bottle of wine and then an evening hugging, discussing paint schemes would be a good way to go.

Perhaps a ring... 24 roses...


Between her boyfriend and my wife I can see this having major complications :p

itcamefromthedeep
05-02-2009, 16:38
The first thing I do when that happens to my opponent is that I offer my hand say "thanks for the game". Sometimes "good game" just feels like a lie.

I know that when that kind of thing happened to me the first thing I wanted was some time to cool down and think things over a little.

After that's done, I tend to wait for my opponent to say something. I try to roll with their frame of mind. I offer tactical advice if it's asked for. I make a comment about luck if that was responsible. If it was luck, and my opponent outplayed me, then I say so.

Ozorik
05-02-2009, 16:43
so I try fairly hard to keep good relations and be a bit nicer when I play this person.


Personally I would have used a 'friendly' list if I suspected that she was intimidated by my win record and/or lacked experience. This way at least the game is likely to be much more enjoyable for her. As it is it seems likely that she wont be playing you again for a long time, if at all.

Once her confidence was built up and she got to know how I played I would then start introducing my list proper.

In general I do exactly the same thing when I crush someone as I do when I have been crushed. Shake hands and say good game (except when it hasnt been due to my opponent being objectionable in some way or other). Ive been wiped out in turn 1 before now, literally. Virus out break in 2nd ed 40k and I played guard infantry....not a model left once my opponent shot the few survivors.


Between her boyfriend and my wife I can see this having major complications

Only if they find out.......;)

Dalrik
05-02-2009, 16:44
I've had a case where half my army (Skaven) fled in the first turn leaving nothing, but core units on the table. I still enjoyed the game... of course I was upset. But I didn't mutter things under my breath about being smashed so badly. To quote what I said, "If you can't HANDLE losing" not, "If you get upset when losing".

The Red Scourge
05-02-2009, 16:50
Losing is losing

Not at all. Losing the game after a good fight doesn't hurt anyone (at leat it shouldn't). But getting steamrolled before the game has actually begun is something quite different. It just doesn't make for a good game.

blackjack
05-02-2009, 16:51
In the end you can't control other peoples feelings. You may have to accept that this person will not play Warhammer with you. This does not mean that you can't have friendly relations with her outside the game.

Zoolander
05-02-2009, 16:57
Losing a full game and having your army wiped out on Turn Two are two completely different things. I've seen some of the calmest, most seasoned Warhammer players that I know get a bit rattled when their army is effectively destroyed before Turn Three. It's hard to fault someone for having that response, because it's such an unexpected and unpleasant turn of events.

I can because at the end of the day, it's still just a game.

Arguleon-veq
05-02-2009, 17:10
I totally agree that decimating other peoples armies in a smallish gaming community can lead to a break down of the group. It puts people off etc etc.

My most common opponents are a group of friends, sometimes I go to the gaming club [but that is closed at the minute] or a GW to mix it up [I cant stand GW stores though!]. Thankfully my group takes losing to me well as I have the same results when I play at a GW or the gaming club and they often go to play in GW stores and are usually some of the best players there. But to make sure they dont lose interest in the game, or playing against me in particular I -

Point out what they did well and which units performed for them.
Offer advice on their list.
Mention what they did better than last time.

Mainly just pointing out the things that went well for them in the game. Or how I was lucky in certain areas If I was [as Im not going to lie about it]. We have a good group and we take each others advice on board, one of my mates holds a lot of my losses at both systems of the game and he went years against me without ever winning in either, he kept learning from it. I was the only person he ever played for a while but once he started going to gaming clubs and GW stores he was smashing armies straight away despite never having won before because he had a good attitude and learnt from his losses against me, now he is my toughest opponent.

At the end of the day their attitude plays a big part, if they have a bad one about it, there is just very little you can do.

40kdhs
05-02-2009, 17:23
1- Don't say anything.
2-Ask him/her to play again.

Kornath
05-02-2009, 17:34
While I'm relatively new, I played my new warriors of chaos against a slayer army (that included 9 of those pesky doomseekers) and the guy had bragged a little too much about how he was gonna clear me off the table.

He is usually a nice guy and all, but I found this very ridiculing my (awesome) warriors of chaos. So I decided to make everything Khorne and just hope for the best... And I wiped his army instead.

While it was a draw thanks to the slayer rule, I would have won otherwise so I was very happy, but I still told him that I was just lucky (Thank you Khorne chosen, who rolls +1 attack before the game mwehehe). He was a good sport about it and so was I, I bought him coca cola after all hehe :rolleyes:

T_T Kornath

orkz222
05-02-2009, 17:39
[QUOTE=darkace77450;3263795]I scream "Yeeeaaah!!!!" as I climb onto the tabletop and proceed to thrust my crotch in their direction over and over again with my tongue sticking out ala Michael Jordan.
[\QUOTE]

ROFLMAO make me want to sig that.

Say your dice rolls were very lucky and it help in crucial moments of the game. say you were lucky with the HODA and KB waywatchers (and other stuffs during the game), if they nv did so well the game would be very close.

Godgolden
05-02-2009, 17:48
"Thanks for the game" this is the comment ive been looking for!

If you yourself get rolled, learn from it, the deep brindled anger/dissapointment and just imagine how they could make you feel better, which is pretty much nothing other than the obvious.

the obvious (hey, its the net)

dont gloat :)
dont cheer after every destroying dice rolls/ unit removed
be a gentleman, manners are very important
Beer, is usually an adaquite consolation (or equivilent)

Of course i can tlel you anything really, its when the moment arrises when it counts.

Hiportes
05-02-2009, 18:00
From the point of view of the crushed person:

I remember playing my cousin right when I was starting out as Brets. He rolled out his VC army with huge Zombie blocks and a Vamp Lord on Winged Nightmare (back with the 'Fly High' rules) and I had only my KotR and a bunch of Bowmen. He proceeded to stomp me in about 3 turns (I found out about the importance of Brets breaking things on the charge and how Undead don't oblige).

To make me feel better, before playing his VC again, he busted out his all Night Goblin force, which I proceeded to beat in a close match. I'm much better now, and know the problems of Brets front charging big blocks of Undead, but it made me feel more confident that I wasn't going to get crushed every time once playing the Gobbos.

I know this isn't possible in many circumstances, but offering a game for your opponent with a different army/scenario or somesuch might get their confidence up so that they can try to figure out your main force before taking it on right away again.

The SkaerKrow
05-02-2009, 18:06
Losing is losingNope, sorry. It isn't that simple.

And Zoolander, your own signature is the best counter to that logic. A well played (or at least competitive) game that comes to a loss is still fun. Getting your whole army smashed off the table in a turn and a half is not. See the difference?

selone
05-02-2009, 18:09
Is that the same player who you kept beating with your VC's Mal?. It can be bad when you beat someone very convincingly or beat someone over a longer time but you know its inevitable.
Theres not much you can do but don't deliberately play badly as at best it looks condascending and at worst you'll get a loss. I'd take my cue from them and how they're taking it, if they got depressed/sad I'd apologise if they were like its just one of those things I'd probably agree to a replay, etc.

Urgat
05-02-2009, 18:32
I say "Hahaha you lost to goblins" and I imitate a goblin laughter :p


actually, i tell my oppnents that 1) i will not quit, and 2) i wont let up, and i expect the same from them.

If I'm obviously screwed on turn two, I'll happily give up. I'm not gonna play a funless game just so the other guy can enjoy some petty satisfaction of crushing the helpless remains of my army.

guillaume
05-02-2009, 19:11
I have been on both ends of these situations: losing badly and winning royally.

I think, there is not much to do. Just acknowledge that there was some serious dice chance that either made your unit break combat, flee and panic everyone around, or that they broke your opponent's unit on the charge, continued on and broke a subsequent unit where their general was...

Sometimes, there is just no telling, especially in friendlies where one is not paying so much attention to the details, you move your unit...oops, shouldnt have done that ..oh well.

Johnnyfrej
05-02-2009, 19:49
"Oops! I did it again!"

Hur hur just kidding, I can rarely crush anyone with Empire. Almost every battle is bloody and messy. But I always strive to have a good time with my opponent (unless he is playing a cheesy list, where I just try to be polite).

Maskedman5oh4
05-02-2009, 19:56
Tell her that a defeatist attitude is very unattractive.

alternatively

Setup a game with both of your Wood Elf forces against another 'team'. Then she can see the strengths and weaknesses of your troops against other opponents. This will allow her to learn more about different play styles of the same army and may result in her changing some tactics.

General Squeek Squeek
05-02-2009, 19:59
with some massacres theres really not much you can say and do to change the mood of the individual that lost. Just be polite and friendly. Just make sure your being genuine whatever you do.

There is a gamer I play with who when he wins he goes on a long rant about how you could do better and what to try next time. Sometimes its helpful, but generally it doesn't come off right and he just seems like hes pitying you.

Having lost many, many, many games of warhammer over the years I can say that sometimes a massacre just depresses you a little (not crying and running home depressed, but more of the you need a moment to reflect and absorb the loss). It all depends of the circumstances of course. Once I had been developing a strategy for my skaven army that I had been composing for weeks. I thought I had everything all worked out. I even took the month off from gaming just to have everything fully painted and looking great. Needless to say when I got steamrolled (twice) I was a bit depressed. It had nothing to do with the person who beat me at all. I know its just a game for fun and 10 mins later at the paint bar I was laughing the losses off with by opponents. Sometimes the person just needs a bit to absorb the loss for whatever reason.

Coragus
05-02-2009, 20:01
I don't know what this "crush someone" you speak of is. I play Dwarves.

Volker the Mad Fiddler
05-02-2009, 20:06
There can be no answer here as it depends on far too many factors that someone not in the exact situation can never fully realize. I have some friends with whom an incident like this would lead to some full-on mother abusing trash talking on one day and would merit no comment at all the next depending on the surrounding situation. When in doubt, I would go with some a little self-deprecating but that is my personal style. Remember, 'sometimes chickens, sometimes feathers'.

Caine Mangakahia
05-02-2009, 23:59
I beleive I only managed it once when the new VC came out, and after dozens of games of having my Undead armies fairly trounced by his old school Hordes of Chaos army (6 Edition when they had 3 Army books) I said "Yeeeeaaaahhhh!!"
And then the new DoC army came out........

theunwantedbeing
06-02-2009, 00:53
I like to make sure my opponent knows what he did right, and where my luck was just plain silly.
Winning very early on is usually down to dumb luck more than anything.

Unless you shoot the enemy general's unit and he panics and runs off. Then it's less unlucky...if they conceed well, clearly relying too much on the general's presence.

As I have a dark elf army them conceeding is me now owning them :P So that usually gets at least a grin from my opponent who is usually not overly happy at his army for doing badly.

Always best to blame your troops for the dice not being nice.
They're the ones doing the fighting afterall it's their lives on the line.
Plus its funny :P

trolloc
06-02-2009, 01:14
I keep up a running commentary throughout the game. Whenever something big and unexpected happens, no matter who it happens to, I make fun of it. Case in point...A 4 man unit of kroxigors charging a unit of Brettonian peasants. Every hit misses, 2 kroxigors die in the return assault. They fail their leadership, run away, and are run down by the peasants. I find it hilarious, and spin a story as such. I do the same thing when my units do something spectacular. That way, even if there is a massacre, everyone goes away laughing

Number 24
06-02-2009, 01:28
This is a regular player, but one that actually refussed to play against me for a while because I won too much, so I try fairly hard to keep good relations and be a bit nicer when I play this person.


Gotta be honest, kind of sounds like a poor loser.

I would never refuse to play against someone just because they "win too much", and if I lost in two turns I'd be the first to say "that was quick! we still have time for another one." I want to play people who are better than me. I want to learn their secrets! Every loss is an opportunity to learn something new and get better.

I don't care how bad the loss is, it's just a game. And no one gets better at anything when they quit. The people who win often have probably lost a lot at one point as well.

If someone else is giving her a hard time for not playing well and therefore encouraging the depressed response then that person needs an attitude adjustment. If people try to console her too much it just confirms her own belief that she sucks (because why else would everyone try to console her?). But if she's just upset at herself, then that's her deal. If she just wants to win all the time and can't handle an occasional loss, that's internal to her and she has to learn how to get over it.

It's not cold to say so either. Someone who reacts that way to losing a fantasy game, even a bad loss, is ill-prepared to deal with real life. They don't need hand-holding. They need a reality check. They might need help.

Be as gracious a winner as you can and hope they can be an equally gracious loser (and when you lose, set the example you want others to follow). If they can't enjoy the game even when they lose (even when they lose badly), it's on them.

I'd laugh my ass off if I lost that quickly, personally.

dragonlancr
06-02-2009, 02:25
I find when I crush opponents of the opposite gender, it is an opportune time to ask them out.

See, women like strength and the feelings of protection and security. You might try: "Hey, you know, if we teamed up together (really emphasize together so she gets the idea you mean beyond the game) I would be able to defend your weaker list and tactics under my umbrella of greatness." ... Then give a little flex or something.

Naa, in all seriousness. I agree with what you said about keeping the group together.

Let her have some small victories for the sake of the greater good of the game and the hobby group. Do things you normally wouldn't if they are losing horribly. Nothing too major, but give them a little highlight of their own.

Like once I rolled to rally my dwarves which would have been the opportune time to rear charge my opponents general unit ... ironically one of the last units on the table. I rolled the break test and told him that was enough to make them flee. I rolled a 10 but didn't utilize my musician.

The warriors fled off the table and he felt relatively accomplished knowing he destroyed something.

I do little things like that.

dragonlancr
06-02-2009, 02:27
Oh, the other thing I do when I crush someone is make sure they don't check the warseer forums!

haha, what a hoot that would be!

Urgat
06-02-2009, 06:42
Gotta be honest, kind of sounds like a poor loser.

Doesn't seem like she threw a fit or anything, so I wouldn't call that being a poor looser.
As for the "you shuold have done this, you should have done that", I'd never do it unless we're actively talking about the game. It only makes you sound superior, almost condescendant. I'd hate it if someone did that to me if I wasn't asking or talking about my mistakes first.

Djekar
06-02-2009, 07:16
While certainly not all of these suggestions can be true of your particular situation Mal, I am glad that you posted it up here for us to debate since this topic comes up alot with a player in our group. We had all pretty much settled on the "try and chalk it up to luck and go out for a brew afterwards" approach, but I think there are some other very valid suggestions that I would like to try out that I hadn't heard/thought of before. I think that if there is an answer to be found, it will be found in this thread.

That being said, I think that a rematch is normally in the offing when it's a Turn 2 rout, but I understand about her not wanting to play you again after such a loss. Does her boyfriend also play in your group? Is he very muscular and overprotective? You may have bigger problems here... :D

~Waffle

ChaosVC
06-02-2009, 08:07
Tell her she is the most beautiful woman in the world, then whisper to self "except wife".

I think you did the best you can already, maybe try to be somehow more friendly towards he and compliment on her moves in other games.
Ok I am saying this only because she is a she and woman players are rare.:p
If his a guy...just tell him "**** happens".:cheese:

Dalrik
06-02-2009, 09:03
Nope, sorry. It isn't that simple.

It is entirely, that simple... the finality of losing is losing. Whether in the first or last round, you've still lost Skaerkrow. I'm not talking about the emotion involved or manner in which a game is lost (and how that affects said loser).

warlord hack'a
06-02-2009, 09:35
what I do is be honest (yeah go ahead shoot me for it ;-)). And honestly I do not think I would enjoy a game where I would crush the opponent so mercilessly. So that is what I would say: that I did not enjoy the match either as it was not tactics but onearthly good rolling and that I would like a rematch as soon as possible to have a good game against her as you had been looking forward to this one (and yes, I would say the same thing against a specimen of the masculin persuasion).

Seriously, I play warhammer for the thrill of outsmarting the opponent and then mercilessly crushing them ;-). Rolling well the whole game is not fun, but neither is rolling bad making a carefully set plan fall to pieces..

Neknoh
06-02-2009, 10:24
It is entirely, that simple... the finality of losing is losing. Whether in the first or last round, you've still lost Skaerkrow. I'm not talking about the emotion involved or manner in which a game is lost (and how that affects said loser).

Actually you did, stating a person should not differ in emotions despite not having the least bit of an enjoyable game by saying "losing is losing", suggesting that, to you, there is no difference.

During the Storm of Chaos, one Hellcannon shot and a host of panic tests later saw my enemy with one unit of Goblin Wolf Riders left on the table. I told him to redeploy his army and swapped the Hellcannon for a unit of Chaos Knights and a spawn.


I am not a sore looser in most regards, however, when I don't get to play a game because of the dice, I can be found muttering, afterward, I usually have a good discussion with my opponent about the tactics etc. and it usually boils down to dice simply not working.

Under Hordes of Chaos rules, I had a disc rider fail his 4+ Wardsave twice to wounding bowfire that got past his armoursave... turn two. In turn one, the Chaos Lord on a Dragon miscast on TWO DICE, I then picked them up and rerolled with the staff of change, miscast again, lost a wound and that was it for magic (it either ended the phase or I simply didn't manage to cast anything more that turn). Later on in the game saw Dragon Ogres fail to do anything when charging some unit (can't remember which one), not taking any wounds but failing each and every attack (either missing or rolling 1's to wound) and being broken, and run down, by some infantry unit. Knights being scythed down because I continously kept rolling 1's for armoursaves against multishots, spells and elven bowmen.

In the end, after the entire army had been severly decimated, I decided upon a dragon duel, there was simply, nothing else I could really do, it was a loss, might as well go out with a bang, so I charged the star dragon, knowing fully well the dragon'd eat my Chaos Lord, but I'd be damned if I didn't drag the prince down with me.

The prince, having a Starlance, did not get any strength bonus or anything, he would still be striking first though "not that bad" I figure and opt for shield, giving me a 3+ armoursave, cue a talisman of Loec and he rerolls to wound rolls. I suffer 3 wounds (what the hell!) and I promptly fail two of the armoursaves, and, since I miscast on round 1, I was down to 2 wounds... voila, one dead Chaos Lord. The dragon ate his prince, his dragon bit into my dragon and my dragon broke and was run down.

Discussed it afterward and we agreed that everything that I did in the game was indeed about the best things I could've one end of story.... but the dice shafted me so badly it wasn't even funny, there was simply no point in playing the game I fealt but I held out despite of this, because my luck could, perhaps, turn, sometime.

But in the end, it was a loss, and a very dissapointing loss at that.

What happened to Malorian was about the same thing, it is not his fault he rolled 18 hits or a Killingblow arrow, it is simply dice screwing you over and detracting the game. I would've told her not to pack the army away, made a quick unit swap of Warhawks for Wardancers and told her "let's try again".

Dalrik
06-02-2009, 13:30
Actually you did, stating a person should not differ in emotions despite not having the least bit of an enjoyable game by saying "losing is losing", suggesting that, to you, there is no difference.

You're not making any sense.

Dalrik
06-02-2009, 13:32
Fate is fickle

Mouldsta
06-02-2009, 13:43
Depends on why I crushed them - if it's a pure luck thing (vampire gets hit by a scattering rock lobber, dies, then army crumbles turn one) then I'll probably just comment on how they had some awful luck, and if they're alright the'll know this as well.

If they're pretty young, or extremely new (like first game new) then I might ask them whether they want to play a demo game (setting up situations to see how they work), a "just for laughs" game (run at them shouting, charge your light cav into their combat block, never choose to flee etc) or a hard bitten tactical game (play as if going against an experienced tournament player).
Some people like to just get used to the rules by having an easy opponent, in which case crushing them will be down to luck, but others prefer to learn the hard way, so they can see how units really work, what tactics players use etc. If they get crushed because of this, they'll probably have been expecting it, so we'll chat about tactics, army composition etc.

Grunge
06-02-2009, 13:47
If its pure luck and a really fast game, we usually play again.

If its a fair crush, i feel bad and start looking towards some boxes where my Tomb King army is stored away.

I should stop playing deamons :(

Domoto
06-02-2009, 17:28
Recently I had a game against my father where I was Tomb Kings and he was his new VC army, well I got the first turn and my SSC was on a hill, so I decided too go for a lucky shot, I ended up getting a partial on his general rolled a 5 too hit, and a 6 too wound, he only had armor so no save, and then I rolled 6 wounds...his general died in turn one, then my Casket ended up going off due too him rolling under too dispel, it killed his Varghulf and 4 of the 6 Blood knights....between that and the crumble casualties the game was over in turn 2 basically it ended with me only losing 4 bowmen...I tried too explain that I was lucky with the shot and that the rolls were favoring me, but Its still hard when they person gets beaten that bad, even if it is luck

Malorian
06-02-2009, 17:29
Did the general fail his look out sir roll?

Lugburz
06-02-2009, 20:33
I annihilated my opponents Dark Elf army last weekend. It was strange, I was cursed by bad rolls the first two rounds, miscasting 4 times, the last time my Slann almost destroyed his temple guard regiment when I rolled 4 (I think) on the miscast table, doing strength 6 hit on every model in base contact, killing eight of them.
Suddenly I managed to surprise my opponent with cold ones in the flank with +d6 charge banner, and the stegadon anchient destroyed the other flank. And by turn five my skink hero on a terradon sniped down his last fleeing sorceress, leaving nothing of his army left...

We just stared blankly on the table afterward, and all I could say was "What the hell just happened" xD

Awilla the Hun
06-02-2009, 21:30
Shake hands, say good game, and humour them on their dice luck. (And occasionally tell them what they could have done.)

dragonlancr
06-02-2009, 22:01
What is funny is when you blame it all on lucky dice, offer to rematch, and the rematch goes just as poorly for them as the first game.

Then they are even more depressed!

MURPH
06-02-2009, 22:47
If she doesn't want to play you I suggest two things.

1. Continuously offer games, never stop offering, even if she says no it shows her that she can still play you if she changes her mind. I doubt its a deep seeded resentment towards you.

2. Explain to her that the level of improvement is greater after a loss than it is a win. Losing is more rewarding than a win in the long run.

Its just a game, you get better with practice, but you rarely get better after beating someone senseless.

Dont:
-Pull punches.
-Coddle them, sympathy is humiliating.
-Let them re-roll dice just for the sake of a bad roll.

Do:
-Go over the meta-game with them before, have a looksie at their list and explain any flaws you may notice.
-Have fun. Happiness is contagious.
-Let them make mistakes.
-Chat with them post game about what happened.
-Correct them rules wise.

Its a game, competitiveness will come with confidence. Confidence comes with understanding. Guide her, but let her make mistakes, those are the lessons that stick the longest.

Good luck and see you tomorrow mate!

MURPH

MarcoPollo
06-02-2009, 23:06
Be gracious and friendly, and then talk about something else. Games like that don't merit conversation afterwards. Trying to assuage their bruised ego will most likely come off as being patronizing.


Best advice I've heard. Sometimes it is good to talk "shop" with them about the game. But in the case of a humiliating defeat, best to talk about something else. Sports, new models coming out, the latest music, whatever. The sooner the mind is off the game the better.

Whatever you do, be genuine.

Bobblehat
06-02-2009, 23:12
If it's a friendly then you would probably both agree that it would be better time spent playing the game again with different set up of scenery or deployment.

If it's during a tournament then I guess it's TT! :) But don't rub it in your opponent's face.

W0lf
06-02-2009, 23:20
usually offer a rematch.

However im also liable to analyse what happened and offer advice/suggestions.

selone
06-02-2009, 23:22
BTW I'm glad to see all of you guys can handle the fact that female gamers exist and thus aren't posting whacky replies which basically involve bedding/romancing/taking pity on the poor girl.
Wait a sec...............

starlight
06-02-2009, 23:23
Crushing defeat either side (or any result for that matter), as long as the guy is a good sport, I shake his hand and say something like:


"Good game, shame about the dice. Want to set up a rematch or can I buy you a pint?"


It's a game...played with toys...and dice... Most of the games I remember are the crushing defeats, because after a certain point, you *know* you're going to lose, so you start trying all sorts of crazy things, just for the fun of it. :D

Master Stark
07-02-2009, 01:25
Nope, sorry. It isn't that simple.

Yeah, it is.

If someone gets upset at the magnitude of the loss, they are taking their dice and toy soldiers far too seriously.

I should know.

I recently returned from a tournament where I scored 6 battle points out of a possible 120. And I had a blast in every game, even though my army got stomped into a mudhole each time, because the result of a game of toy soldiers is never worth getting upset about.

starlight
07-02-2009, 01:57
Discussions of the magnitude of *losing* stop here. If you wish to debate this, please start your own Thread and I'll move the Posts, but this is not the place for it.


starlight

happy_doctor
07-02-2009, 02:08
...Back on topic, I think the right thing to do is thank your opponent for the game, perhaps make a remark on how the dice favoured you this time, then when things are back to normal discuss on any major tactical errors that might have led to the massacre.

In my group, we spend quite some time after a game drinking beer/coffee and discussing on how the game went and what we would have done different.

Now, if it is a matter of army selection, there are two ways you can resolve this:
-Give insight on what he/she could change in the list in order to optimise it.
-Tone down your own list.

The second option might seem a bit absurd, but I've found that a game is more enjoyable when both players adhere to the same guidelines when picking an army; bringing a gun to a pillowfight might understandably cause frustration...

From what I've learnt by reading your reports, Malorian, you are a great general. But, in the same time, you are also very competent when it comes to list building, perhaps too competent for some in your group. Try softer lists, use units that you like (model-wise, fluff-wise), even if there are other, better and more obvious choices.

Angelust
07-02-2009, 02:36
I think one of the best ways to avoid this is to know the player, their army, and tone down your list if necessary.

I usually have about 3 or 4 army list drafts ready to go depending on the army I'm going to face. I never tailor up, but I always tailor down.

For instance, if the kid just getting into the hobby asks for a game, I pull out the list with lots of silly units and combinations that are fun, and not competitive. Sometimes I have some lists that are really a joke, and then do my best to win.

If it's a regular gamer and they have a solid list, I'll use a more standard list, and play hard.

If these things fail, I'll usually just chalk it up to bad luck. I can understand if your hard-painted army sucks on the table-top, but their level of humility will either push them to improve, or stop the hobby. Hopefully they'll learn as they fail, or else just play for fun and not care when their army gets smothered.

Story: recently in the store I frequent, a 16 year old who put together a pretty nice lizardmen army tried them out in a couple games against Vampire Counts. He got soundly thrashed, and his faith in their units was destroyed. Even though the staff, who are really a good group of guys, tried to convince him to stick with it and learn the army a little better, the next Sunday he came to the store and just bought Vampire Counts. I think it's a shame when a bad trouncing causes you to simply shelve an army, rather than make it better. Maybe Ogre Kingdoms I'd understand...but..

starlight
07-02-2009, 02:44
I've seen that happen all too often. A gamer get soundly beaten, so he buys whatever army beat him and keeps the cycle going because he never takes the time to learn one army well enough to win with it. :(

Ward.
07-02-2009, 07:38
Often a complete crushing at the hands of my army will be followed by me taking pictures and calling your parents to tell them how much of a looser you are.
Might also hit on your girlfriend and slash your tyres, for kicks.

snurl
07-02-2009, 07:50
Around here the loser usually buys the beer for the next game.

Feefait
07-02-2009, 13:41
what i say? "sorry dude." and then depending on his reaction/attitude during the game "at least we had fun", or just drop it and pack up.
i played last week skaven vs. WoC. It was my friends first time playing WoC and I am a vet skaven player. I had meant to play WE, but brought the wrong model boxes and played skaven at the last minute so we could at least play. It wasn't at all fun, and I could tell he did not enjoy it at all. normally we are good enough friends and sports in our group for a little ribbing.

GodlessM
07-02-2009, 13:54
If their spirit is clearly crushed, try chinning them up a little, "it was luck, the dice rolls were with me all the way" things like that that make them feel less like they are a f%^& up.

maze ironheart
07-02-2009, 15:38
If I uterly crush them and others make fun of them I try to make them feel better by saying about how nice their armys paint job is and their high points during the game.

zak
07-02-2009, 15:53
It really depends upon the situation. Having crushed and been crushed I know that it isn't a great feeling getting your **** handed to you on a plate. I think that between friends it is easier to know how they are going to react, but when playing a new opponent you don't know, or how they will react, you have to have a little tact. Boasting about how cra they were isn't going to win you any friends.

ruttman15
07-02-2009, 21:17
"MUAHAHAHAAHHA U SUCK NOOB I TOTALLY OWNED YOU *******************!"
then you flip the table over, yell "THIS. IS. WFB!!!" and kick them into a pit.
or you be all friendly and talk about the game :p

Duke Georgal
07-02-2009, 22:08
I win so rarely that when it happens I cannot contain my joy!

I generally run around hooting and hollering so everyone knows I have achieved my goal!

Orkeosaurus
07-02-2009, 22:12
"Welcome to loooooser, population: you."

wingedserpant
07-02-2009, 22:30
You should have winked and said 'I'm not only this aggressive on the tabletop' [Taking into account she is female and you clearly only feel bad because of that. And by clearly I mean 'would like to think that way as it is funnier']

That would only make the situation better.

She would definetly like you after that.

Nomad
07-02-2009, 22:57
I don't think that there's much that you can say. Offering tactical advice will probably only sound patronising, and unless there was at least one particularly spectacular piece of luck, blaming the dice is unlikely to help either. The most I'd do before letting my opponent pack up and leave is thank them for the game.

Condottiere
08-02-2009, 01:33
Warhammer isn't chess; it's difficult not to sound patronizing with a stranger, maybe being friendly and sincere from the very start will ameliorate any hard feelings at the end.

Havock
08-02-2009, 02:52
"Welcome to loooooser, population: you."

*insert hip thrusting*

fluffstalker
08-02-2009, 05:39
I dont get whats this patronising thing. Your trying to help them, and if they refuse because of bad attitude, then its their ****** problem. They'll continue to lose games and I wont give a rats behind. Want to improve? Take the advice. Wanna mope? Dont play. Even if I get utterly crushed I always remember that its a game and short of the other person Deliberately being a jerk Ill forgive him for winning. Ill always take good advice at the end of a game, always.

Einholt
08-02-2009, 05:46
Yea fluff but generally people who do not have attitude problems wouldn't feel bad anyway, it is just a game.