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View Full Version : New to Warhammer, need help with picking an army.



Valek74
06-02-2009, 06:39
Hello,

I am currently playing 40k and have always been interested in starting to play fantasy. Since there are a lot more armies available for fantasy I am stuck on what to choose. Mind you I am new so I really don't know anything. I am looking for a balanced type of army and am open to ideas. Model wise I like the way the Brettonians, Dark Elves, High Elves, Wood Elves, Lizardmen, Empire, Chaos Warriors, and Ogres Look, but again going by look is not going just the way they look my not be a good idea. So saying that I guess I would like an army that experienced players think would be ok for a noob to handle.
I would greatly appreciate any help or advice on what type of an army to start.

Thanks

Socialist
06-02-2009, 08:13
Well any army is good to start with seeing as you're not going to be that good at any of them (no offense meant). You'll have to get to know the game and how the army plays.
Which brings us to what style do you like? These the hoard for starters (i'll just be talking about armies I know, so some are going to be left out): there's Skaven- they're the IG of fantasy. Awesome technology and really ****** guys, but there's no end to the swarm. And they like to blow themselves up in horrific ways. Other than Lizardmen, this is the army I like.

Then there are orks which are goofy (not as goofy as 40K but...). They suffer from animosity which means sometimes they'll forget about the enemy and fight each other or only want to smash some 'eads and rush headlong at the nearest enemy headless of danger. They are hard to kill but hit like wet toilet paper and there's allot of 'em.

Empire can be a hoard army. I don't know too much about 'em since I haven't had the chance to fight them is many years. But they have allot of cheap foot soldiers, strong, tough cavalry, cannons, hand guns and rifles (well more like muskets but you get the idea).

Then there are the smaller, more elite armies.

Wood elves shoot allot! They are the guerrilla army of warhammer. They're fast and sneaky but are weak and few in number.

Brettonia is the medieval france of warhammer. Cheap foot men and really expensive nights that will break anything on the charge.

Chaos is a rock! Small but nearly unbreakable. They have good magic and monsters but are really, really small (well they were the last time I checked. Haven't looked at their book in a while).

Now come my babies, the Lizardmen. These guys are both quick, strong and tough. Almost everything in the army has movement 6 or more. They only unit with less is your main core unit, the saurus. These guys are machines. Toughness and strength 4 means the hit hard and don't get hit often in return and a 3+ save with hand weapon and shield those times they do get wounded they'll have a good chance to stay alive. Another cool thing about these guys is they are the only basic troop in the game to have 2 attacks base, and with spears the second rank still gets two attacks. A unit of 18 (6x3) can throw out a total of 24 attacks a turn, 25 with a champion. Needless to say they will kill allot.

Now skinks are the complete opposite of saurus. They're fast and if they wind blows too hard fall over and can't get back up. They're easily on of the best units in the army. They skirmish so they deploy and move like troops in 40k or come in regiments. They have a special ability that gives all their ranged attacks poison so that any roll of 6 to hit auto wounds. Their range weapons are the javelin which is a thrown weapon so takes no penalties to move and shoot, or long range; and blowpipes which have a longer range than javelins but suffer minuses if they move or are shooting at long range. The cool thing about blowpipes is they can shoot twice. This incurs penalties to hit but with a squad of ten skinks they get a total of twenty shots. These guys hold flanks, take out enemy giants and monsters, and generally harass the enemy.

Hope that helped.

Laughingmonk
06-02-2009, 08:38
To answer your question:

I've heard that Brettonians and Chaos Warriors are fairly straightforward. However, they are not balanced armies. They heavily favor combat and cavalry.

Empire is probably the most flexible army, but also a bit of a mixed bag. They're flexible, but their detachment system requires some skill to use. If you stick with mostly cavalry and arty, with some infantry in support, they can be effective whilst not being overwhelmingly difficult to use. In addition, the empire has three new plastic kits coming out, so that should keep the army fresh whilst you start collecting.

I have heard that Ogre kingdoms is actually a fairly tough list to use. I would avoid it.

If I were you, I would actually take a long look at wood elves. They play almost like a 40k army, and have sweet models to boot.

Angelust
06-02-2009, 09:09
Fantasy is a difficult game to pick up the first time you transfer from 40k. I'd recommend sitting threw a few games with others who have played before, and learn the basics before you commit to an army.

I would actually suggest not getting a "noob" army as you won't really develop some of the finer points of movement and tactics. Just get an army you like, and develop skills with them later. By the time you finish painting 2250, you'll probably be quite good at using that army anyway.

Generally, though...

Bretonnians = Usually run lots of heavy cavalry and a mix of other light troops. Heavy cav is the main strength of this army.

Dark Elves = Requires a lot of synnergy, but they can excel in all phases of the game. They're quite a competitive army, but you need to coordinate your whole list well to make it work.

High Elves = Similar to Dark Elves, with the strongest dragon choice and best general magic users in the game. They're pretty elite and frail, but they're pretty well rounded.

Wood Elves = You won't really need to worry too much about the finer points of movement, as their main strength is dominating the movement phase. Their shooting is ok, but their main strength is multiple small units that combine charges in order to break enemy units. It's all about forcing your opponent into some bad situations, and capitalizing on them. That said, some armies can handle their tricks pretty easily, but most have to work hard at it.

Empire = This is the real IG of fantasy. Regular humans who have access to most unit types, but cheaper and less effective. They can get some cool gunpowder war machines, but it usually ends up being more of a laugh than a competitive army. Dwarfs shoot better, many other armies fight in close combat better, elves and other armies are more mobile, and most other armies have better magic. But you can get a big diverse army, which most other armies can't do.

Chaos = These guys own the close combat phase, and they have a lot of unit options. They CAN be a large army, and in my opinion, the marauder units are very competent fighters (WS4, I4, weapon options, mark options, reroll panic). They pay for the close combat abilities in lack of ranged fire, lack of mobility, and higher point costs for the cool units.

Ogre K = By far the worst army in Fantasy if you're playing competitively. You won't have many units on the table, and they're still just toughness 4. You may win games against newer players, but experienced ones will usually mop the floor with them. Still, I know a lot of veterans who like the models and use this army when playing against newer opponents or when they reallly want bragging rights.

Lizardmen = They just got a new book, and they're a pretty solid army. You can have big dinosaurs running around, and have pretty solid saurus spearmen for core. They have very good spellcasters, and their ability in close combat is very good. They're somewhat comparable to Warriors of Chaos, though they're more balanced as far as what kinds of units are available to them. They're not Chaos when it comes to close combat though.

Hope this helps.

fnc6884
06-02-2009, 13:30
Don't forget Chaos Dwarves!!!!!!

Make sure you get at least two earthshaker rockets and whatnot

Gen.Ruckus
06-02-2009, 15:11
Well I been playing 40k for 15 years and recently got into fantasy, I been playing for about 4 months now, I play bretonians, and I love them, I easily have a 4k army now. You should pick an army you like the models for, its hard getting motivated painting, playing something you don't like looking at. What style of gameplay do you like? Shooting, magic, combat? Also, what 40k army do you have?

Valek74
06-02-2009, 16:17
Great advice so far and it looks like I am down to High Elves, Lizardmen, or Chaos Warriors. It seems from the 3 the most balanced are the Lizardmen. I want an army that can do good in close combat but also have some range, so for example if my army has no bowmen I would like to have magic instead and the same thing the other way around.
To your question Gen about what 40k army I run, Chaos and Tyranids.

Gen.Ruckus
06-02-2009, 16:33
Ok, well then I would suggest against getting chaos, they are a straight forward army, run and fight, the modles look really good though. Lizardmen and high elves would be a better choice, both have ranged, close combat and magic. The high elves look like they need a little more finesse to win games, and the magic has to go to lizardmen, that slaan is awesome.

Foegnasher
06-02-2009, 17:36
pssst...

what these other dudes arn't telling you is there is another choice. A BETTER choice. The liars and cowards of the Empire might deny it, but beneath thier very feet are the master race, the cunning and deadly Skaven. Now the skaven are a horde army, able to put the largest armies seen on the battlefield. They are characterful and fun to play. plus, if the rumors hold, will be getting a new army book in june/july with a ton of new models. Join the Horned Rat, my freind, you will not be dissapointed.

Angelust
06-02-2009, 18:08
I don't really think Lizardman have reliable or effective ranged combat...their salamanders and EotG are great....but its hard to compete with a cannon or repeater bolt thrower.

In my opinion, of the two armies high elves are more balanced, but Lizardmen are way better in Close Combat.

Gen.Ruckus
06-02-2009, 19:28
I do agree with all of that, and the skaven are really cool too, I'm planning on getting me a skaven army, the only thing that stopped me know is the new book that's rumored to come out, with new models of course. So get lizardmen, it seems to be the best choice.

Valek74
06-02-2009, 20:01
Ok so Chaos Warriors are out. So the group that I am planning to consistenly play with plays Dark Elves, Brettonians, Wood Elves, Empire, Orcs and Goblins, Dwarfs, Chaos Warriors, and Tomb Kings.
There are no High Elves and no Lizardmen in this group of players. So my first choice HE or Lizardmen, but keep in mind I like the look of the DE and Wood Elves also.
How are the HE in close combat? Do they have decent armor. What army can they be compared to in 40k.

Tyranno1
06-02-2009, 20:08
How are the HE in close combat? Do they have decent armor. What army can they be compared to in 40k

Think less 40K and more real world armies.

High elves can be compared to the japanese samurai. Their infantry is top notch offensive and defensivly, as you can allow an opponent to attack you and then strike first to wipe them out.

isidril93
06-02-2009, 20:15
How are the HE in close combat? Do they have decent armor. What army can they be compared to in 40k.


fluff wise i would guess eldar but game wise dont bother comparing

they rock in CC, read my tactica :)

Valek74
06-02-2009, 20:16
Think less 40K and more real world armies.

High elves can be compared to the japanese samurai. Their infantry is top notch offensive and defensivly, as you can allow an opponent to attack you and then strike first to wipe them out.

I like the sound of Samurai's, that night have just sold me to play them.

izikial
06-02-2009, 20:20
He are a glass cannon, they devistat armys, as long as no one tryes to touch them but the second the enamy sneez's they all fall over, they can have some nice armor saves on there kinghts and charictors but there still all tougness 3 and armor can be removed by higher strength atacks, i would sujest lizzy's valek, as they have jus been redon witch means lots of plastics (witch is handy and cheep) also lizzards are a very good jack of all trades list and will let you learn about each phase of the game and try difrent tactics. you can make difrent lists to specialise in each phase so you will not get bored to easy but this cane make them a challanging list witch is good for a newbi, everyone lose's there first few games, but with lizzy's when you get good then you should be able to get good solid wins

Yerun
06-02-2009, 20:21
I already played 7th lizardmen and they look fairly balanced.
they've got great close combat with (plastic!!) templeguard and giant dinosaurs
Awesome magice with a slann
and shooting with skinks with poison attacks.

You need to take the army you like to see marching side by side towards the enemy.
I think Lizardmen and Chaos look best. But as I said, lizardmen have better magic AND shooting.

High Elves are strong but come at a price. They have first strike capability and can therefore let them get charged.. And great mages.. bit less then slann.. depending how much you want of it :D

I prefer Vampire Counts myself ;) no honour and lots of dead people when dust settles...

Angelust
06-02-2009, 20:37
High elves have standard armor of 4-5+, which is what light armor and a shield give you. 5+ is pretty common in WH, but it can go away pretty fast with high strength attacks.

Their Dragon Princes are some of the better cavalry in the game, competitive in value against the best heavy cavalry in WH.

High Elves pack a decent punch, but toughness 3 with light armor really makes most of them very fragile. Anything you cannot kill by striking them first will usually mow through your units. THis means high elves will typically not want to get into close combat with high toughness or high armor foes. Luckily, our shooting and magic can take care of these types fairly reliably. Repeater bolt throwers go through armor pretty well, and we always have access to lore of metal, which can make short work of heavy cav lists and Warriors of Chaos who use lots of warrior/chosen blocks.

One major play difference though: Usually, lizardmen are marching towards you to use their engine of the gods, SLaan magic, and get their rock solid troops into combat. High Elves can usually force you to come to them by having Always Strike First, and decent shooting and offensive magic.

Socialist
07-02-2009, 00:57
pssst...

what these other dudes arn't telling you is there is another choice. A BETTER choice. The liars and cowards of the Empire might deny it, but beneath thier very feet are the master race, the cunning and deadly Skaven. Now the skaven are a horde army, able to put the largest armies seen on the battlefield. They are characterful and fun to play. plus, if the rumors hold, will be getting a new army book in june/july with a ton of new models. Join the Horned Rat, my freind, you will not be dissapointed.

Hey, now. I talked up Skaven with the first post. The only thing cooler than an endless swarm of man sized rats is the anti-swarm of the Lizardmen. And we have our new book and it kicks ass.

Socialist
07-02-2009, 01:00
I played HE once and only once with my Lizardmen and lost ONE, I repeat one, saurus warrior. The guy refused to play me after that.

Lizards are much better than HE. They can shut down any magic phase, have skinks to screen against shooting, flying dinos to take out those repeating bolt throwers and huge, fast, terror causing dinos. Our range is great (not a great as it was but...) but it's at close range which is fine because skinks are harassers and screeners and you have to be within 8 inches to march block so while your there double tap those poisonous blowpipes.

redyellowpinkgreen
07-02-2009, 01:43
my two cents: out of the armies you listed i would steer clear of ogres as they're completely out there is terms of play style and won't help you learn the game/win anything. wood elves and bretonians are quite easy to write beardy combos for, which isn't much of a learning curb from 40k. i tried an empire army once and found it very hard work, you can easily have 80 rank and file models in a reasonabley sized army and the empire models demand attention to detail when painting. lizardmen and chaos shouldn't be too hard to play competetively with and sound like a good introduction to fantasy as do dark and high elves. my personal recomendation is dark or high elves as they play in all phases of the game and are fragile but powerful which encourages tactical thinking and both have some pretty tasty models, hope it helps.

Angelust
07-02-2009, 01:49
I played HE once and only once with my Lizardmen and lost ONE, I repeat one, saurus warrior. The guy refused to play me after that.

Lizards are much better than HE. They can shut down any magic phase, have skinks to screen against shooting, flying dinos to take out those repeating bolt throwers and huge, fast, terror causing dinos. Our range is great (not a great as it was but...) but it's at close range which is fine because skinks are harassers and screeners and you have to be within 8 inches to march block so while your there double tap those poisonous blowpipes.


I don't want to get into a hypothetical game of Lizards vs. High Elves, but I think it's hard to judge from one game what the balance of power is like between two armies. I also played one game against Lizardmen with my high Elves, and this was my first game with my high elves ever. He lost pretty bad, but that doesn't mean HE are simply better than LM.

And how is LM range great if it's only close range? Like I said, they have okay shooting, but it's suffers from lack of range. And while you move forward, the other army is usually getting in position and shooting down your most troublesome units.

Socialist
07-02-2009, 02:57
True about only playing them once, but I wasn't impressed.

As for the range, it's great because anyone who has been on the receiving end is scared of it. It takes down big things very well, works wonders against low toughness blocks while denying them the ability to march. I've obliterated five units of wolf riders in one turn with Lizard range, it works wonders. Go ahead shot my ranged units, I don't really care. They skirmish so they're hard to hit, given javelins the skinks have a save on top of that and over all they're not that expensive and the ones that are have a high toughness and multiple wounds. Plus they're all real fast. By the time your done the rest of my army will be knocking on your front door.

If used right, Lizardmen range is deadly. We have flying shooters, scouting shooters, regular skirmishing shooters, block shooters, monstrous shooters, shooters that cause panic tests, shooters that want to be charged because when they are the shoot even better. And to make things even worse for the enemy every ranged unit except Razordons and Salamanders have poisoned attacks so 6's to hit automatically wound and blowpipes get that nice little double tap special so 10 guys = 20 shots which auto wound on 6's. And all our ranged units are fairly cheap.

Our shooting capabilities, though short range, are awesome.

Oh, and our flying shooters also drop rocks once a game during the "remaining moves" phase so they can still shoot in the shooting phase.

Angelust
07-02-2009, 03:11
I think the problem is, if lizardmen are in range to shoot, the other guy is usually in range to charge. Except for razordon which stand and shoots two artillery dice (I think it's razordon), most of the LIzardmen shooting stuff doesn't want to be in the middle of a dedicated charge.

That, and march-blocking is a much bigger problem for LM than for HE. HE with decent range can wait for you to come to them. LM, on the other hand, are going to suffer more rounds of shooting if they're being march-blocked by fliers or scouts.

Edit: Oh, and I'm not knocking LM. I'm sure they'll be a competitive army once people get the hang of them. I'm just saying HE are a pretty good army too in many configurations.

Valek74
07-02-2009, 17:41
Ok, so from the looks of it both HE and Liz are good picks for me. Now I just got to decide which one I wanna play. They both got good magic, so this is going to be tough.

Awilla the Hun
07-02-2009, 19:30
Ignore these fascist Elves and non interventionalist Lizards, comrade!

Field a Peasant revolutionary Bretonnian Army! Comrade Stahl has decreed that there shall not be a step backwards in the freeing of the oppressed Proletariat! Forward, comrade, to victory!

Angelust
07-02-2009, 19:44
Shouldn't you be playing Kislev then...?

Awilla the Hun
07-02-2009, 20:15
The proletariat of Kislev roam free across their lands, Comrade Angelust. It is written by Comrade Talin that the least developed nations shall have the first revolution; and, as Bretonnia has no regard for the lives of its citizens, or of their sweat and toil, it has been decreed that Comrade Stahl shall commence the worldwide revolution there.

-----

*dons out of character hat* (i.e. not a red plumed one.)

So, yeah. Both lizardmen and High Elves are great army choices; I would suggest choosing whichever one you like the look of best. Seriously! If you don't want to paint their models, it isn't worth doing them.

Comrade Hun (as I call my Red Guard Bretonnian alter ego) will be making frequent sage comments about various posts and threads, all of which will be doubtless extremely illuminating for all concerned.

Harbinger09
08-02-2009, 16:05
Between HE and Lizardmen- my vote is for the Lizardmen.

The new Lizardmen models look great, and I'm sure their oncoming army book will have some great new combos. High Elves were my first army, but I got alot of **** for playing them. They play like cowards, even though they have incredible melee potential. Many competitive HE lists are all shooting and magic: load you up with bolts, magic and arrows, send out their swordmasters to stall you, game over.

Tyranno1
09-02-2009, 07:53
If your looking mainly from a magic point of veiw, then I say go with the lizards. Not only do they have the best magician in the game (the slann), but they can back it up with an enourmous arcane engine mounted on a dinosaur.

They also have loads of plastic models to pick from, for building a core force very quickly.

Another reason for playing lizards: dinosaurs :p, lots and lots of them.

Valek74
09-02-2009, 19:53
I am really looking towards the lizards, but I dont care for some of their models that much. HE look really good model wise but I dont see many playing them so I getting a bad vibe from them. Vampire Counts seem cool also and I like their models other than the skeleton which look to cartoony to me. I have a couple leftover pieces from my Chaos Space marine army such as Bloodthirster and bloodletters but I hear that deamons are to overpowered and there is no skill required to play them so I dont want to take the easy way out. When it comes to models my favorite are the WoC and Bretts but I hear they have no magic and that they are not easy to play for a starter.
Any thoughts?

Angelust
09-02-2009, 20:02
Well, just keep in mind that the Lizardmen have just gotten a new army book and model range, which means they'll be the flavor of the month for a little while. Time will tell if people continue to play them.

There are quite a few people who play high elves. Before the LM book came out, I'd say that more people generally played high elves than lizardmen, but you know how that swings.

CHaos can be hard to start out with, because you need to learn how to move and maneuver with blocked up Rank and File infantry. That's the hardest thing to pick up in fantasy from 40k, but it's necessary if you ever want to get good at the game.

Brettonia is a pretty point and click army, as you build up lots of heavy cav, then send them at the other guy. Pretty simple actually. THe problem is, too simple and not enough tactics are usually involved.