PDA

View Full Version : Spirit of the Forge cast into Combat?



TroyJPerez
06-02-2009, 09:54
Can spirit of the forge be cast into combat? It was used in a game I was in by a slaan who cast it at a group of knights that had charged him as result of an overrun. Didn't think to question it at first cause its technically not a magic missile, but nowhere in the description does it say it can be cast at a unit in combat. Anyone know?

Asmodiseus
06-02-2009, 11:18
Absolutely not. A spell must say specifically that it effects units in combat in order to effect them.

Necromancy Black
06-02-2009, 11:36
The confusion comes from Rule of Burning Iron which the basis that Spirit of the Forge is built off. Rule of Burning iron can be cast into close combat. Spirit of the Forge however can not.

EvC
06-02-2009, 12:18
Indeed. Spirit of the Forge lists its own requirements for casting, and it certainly cannot be cast into combat.

Dokushin
06-02-2009, 20:35
I beg to differ. Spirit of the Forge says only "This spell can be cast on one enemy unit that is within 24" and visible to the caster..." which offers no prohibition against targeting in CC.

The only rules prohibiting spells from targeting an enemy unit in CC are given for magic missile spells, which are targeted as shooting.

stripsteak
06-02-2009, 22:03
I beg to differ. Spirit of the Forge says only "This spell can be cast on one enemy unit that is within 24" and visible to the caster..." which offers no prohibition against targeting in CC.

The only rules prohibiting spells from targeting an enemy unit in CC are given for magic missile spells, which are targeted as shooting.

no on page 107 it says Wizards cannot cast spells at units engaged in close combat, unless it only affects the wizard, or the spell says otherwise.

magic missiles have their own additional rules that say the target must be a viable target for shooting, and a wizard is prohibited from casting amagic missile while he himself is in combat, even if he meets the regular requirements for it.

Necromancy Black
06-02-2009, 22:34
All spells are prohibited from targeting into close combat. They can only do so if they have a rule saying they can. Spirit of the Forge lacks any rule like this.

EvC
06-02-2009, 23:07
I beg to differ. Spirit of the Forge says only "This spell can be cast on one enemy unit that is within 24" and visible to the caster..." which offers no prohibition against targeting in CC.

The only rules prohibiting spells from targeting an enemy unit in CC are given for magic missile spells, which are targeted as shooting.

The last line of Necromancy Black's sig is written specifically about people like you, who feel the need to butt in on rules debates, despite not having the first clue what they're talking about, in an attempt to make themselves look clever, and failing abysmally. "Beg to differ" indeed :D

No offence intended, it's just absolutely clear that you hadn't read the rulebook before replying, and not even the fact that three different posters all said the same thing clued you into the fact that you might be wrong. You can do better.

Dokushin
06-02-2009, 23:26
Replies first and second -- thanks, I missed that on 107. You're right, of course; from that rule Spirit can not be cast into combat, nor any spell with an exemption. We've been misplaying a few things and it's good to have it cleared up.

Third reply -- I actually spent a decent amount of time looking through the Rulebook concerning this question. As you may or may not be aware, the WHFB 7E rulebook is bloody near 300 pages, and rules are tucked into the oddest corners, at times.

I suppose you think that everything anyone ever says on this board is correct, and that if a reader doesn't think it's right they should just shrug their shoulders and take it as gospel? That there has never been misconception about rules? I suppose that if you saw three replies and couldn't find the rule yourself, you wouldn't dream of disagreeing?

I saw the replies, and tried to find the relevant rule, and could not. I felt like my reply indicated that. Two people saw fit to correct me with curtness, which I deserved, but without the high-handed smugness, which I did not. Unfortunately it seems like three in a row wasn't to be. Thanks anyway, though.

Asmodiseus
07-02-2009, 06:00
Quick question on a similar note, on Sunday I am play ing and will be using Lore of Death with my vampire Lord (Obviously he has Forbidden Lore). Question is on the Steal Soul spell. It does not state that it may be cast into combat but it does state that it has "No targeting restrictions whatsoever" so I assume I may cast it into combat, but I want to make sure I am right before I mess it up.

Necromancy Black
07-02-2009, 07:05
Yep, cast it into combat. The exact same wording (no targeting restrictions) is what allows Rule of Burning Iron to be cast into close combat.

Sarah S
07-02-2009, 18:39
I suppose you think that everything anyone ever says on this board is correct, and that if a reader doesn't think it's right they should just shrug their shoulders and take it as gospel? That there has never been misconception about rules? I suppose that if you saw three replies and couldn't find the rule yourself, you wouldn't dream of disagreeing?

Obviously he doesn't think that's true, as he slammed you for being incorrect. If someone wants to disagree I believe EvC would be more than pleased if they had properly cited rules statements to back up their position and their argument was something more than "I THINK YOU'RE WRONG!" or "I beg to differ..."

Dokushin
07-02-2009, 19:50
Obviously he doesn't think that's true, as he slammed you for being incorrect. If someone wants to disagree I believe EvC would be more than pleased if they had properly cited rules statements to back up their position and their argument was something more than "I THINK YOU'RE WRONG!" or "I beg to differ..."

I understand what you're saying, but how do you cite the lack of a rule? I don't have a problem with being wrong -- I'm guilty of it plenty. I do have a problem with this:

The last line of Necromancy Black's sig is written specifically about people like you, who feel the need to butt in on rules debates, despite not having the first clue what they're talking about, in an attempt to make themselves look clever, and failing abysmally. "Beg to differ" indeed
...which I feel is a little uncalled for. Am I a rules expert? Obviously, no. But I never really considered that throwing a dissenting opinion in because I couldn't find the bloody rule everyone was talking about counted as trying to "make myself look clever" or "not having the first clue" what I'm talking about.

"I beg to differ" means just that -- that I have a difference of opinion I would like to express. Sometimes nuances of meaning can be lost in writing; that hardly necessitates abuse. I like for people to tell me when I'm wrong; it's the only way to learn. But when people jump me for trying to join in a conversation and learning something from it? That's ridiculous.

EvC
07-02-2009, 19:55
Third reply -- I actually spent a decent amount of time looking through the Rulebook concerning this question. As you may or may not be aware, the WHFB 7E rulebook is bloody near 300 pages, and rules are tucked into the oddest corners, at times.

Don't try and pretend "the magic section", specifically the section "casting spells" is an odd place for a rule about casting magic to be found.


I suppose you think that everything anyone ever says on this board is correct, and that if a reader doesn't think it's right they should just shrug their shoulders and take it as gospel?

What on earth gave you that idea? That's a very stupid inference.


That there has never been misconception about rules?

Yes, there are many. Mostly they are from people like you.


I suppose that if you saw three replies and couldn't find the rule yourself, you wouldn't dream of disagreeing?

If I was unsure of a rule, I would not disagree, although I might ask the other posters precisely why they believe what they say to be the case, if I couldn't see why they are saying what they are saying.

To come into the thread and say something like "I beg to differ- you're wrong!", though... no, I would never do that.


I saw the replies, and tried to find the relevant rule, and could not. I felt like my reply indicated that.

Now you are simply lying. You did not indicate in any way shape or form that you had searched for the rule, or that you were unsure in any way. You launched in, started telling people they were wrong, and came off like a tit as a result.


Two people saw fit to correct me with curtness, which I deserved, but without the high-handed smugness, which I did not.

I'm not quite sure what "high-handed" means, but there was certainly no smugness. Just exasperation at yet another new poster who has no compunction about telling other people they are wrong when he has little clue what he's talking about.

You made a mistake. It's not a big deal, really. Just the tone of "I beg to differ", come on, that sounds really snobbish. And if you're going to act snobbish, at least try and be right at the same time.

And I see that you didn't mean to sound snobbish when you said I beg to differ, so I will heartily apologise for coming down so hard on you in response. It's just when I usually hear someone say "I beg to differ", they are being snotty. As you were not, and instead were trying for politeness, I will apologise once again.

Bac5665
07-02-2009, 19:59
EvC may have been harsh, but I tend to agree that if you are answering rules questions, you'd better know what you're talking about. I've posted far less on this board since I left my BRB in a different city.

The prohibition against casting into combat is a fundamental rule of the magic phase. Its on the order of importance as the line of sight rules for charging. I would have difficulty imagining reading the magic section and not seeing that rule. I imagine EvC feels the same way. Not knowing that rule would appear to mean that you hadn't read the book before posting, which is what I would object to. Apparently that wasn't the case.

A tip though: The rules part of the BRB is less than 100 pages. There are no rules after the magic section, so if the pages are in color, they do not have rules. That narrows down the searching considerably.

Dokushin
07-02-2009, 20:28
And I see that you didn't mean to sound snobbish when you said I beg to differ, so I will heartily apologise for coming down so hard on you in response. It's just when I usually hear someone say "I beg to differ", they are being snotty. As you were not, and instead were trying for politeness, I will apologise once again.

Ah, heck, you're being better about this than I am. Didn't mean to come off like I knew what I was talking about, lol -- I misspoke and then overreacted. Apology unnecessary, but accepted wholeheartedly, and try to accept my own apology in return.

I'll do my research with greater diligence next time :D

Asmodiseus
08-02-2009, 05:37
Woohoo can we have a big ole group hug now, except for all the smelly OK players of course:D

nosferatu1001
08-02-2009, 11:57
And O&G players aren't smelly? ;)

Asmodiseus
09-02-2009, 04:48
Sort of but I had to include them in the hug as Dokushin has a orc foot fetish.

ZigZagMan
09-02-2009, 04:58
Some of the way you word your replies CAN be seen as rather smug EvC. Most of the time if you just left out the extra insulting sentence in your replies ("That's a very stupid inference", and "Mostly they are from people like you" and "Now you are simply lying) You could come across with all the same facts, but without angering the people your speaking to.

ghettob
09-02-2009, 12:30
no, only rule of burning iron can be cast into combat.