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Laser guided fanatic
06-02-2009, 14:49
Okay, a couple of months ago my brother gave me a ton of warhammer stuff. Inside the bundle was this warhammer army book called 'Kislev', i can't find any info on the website about them (plus i normally just play 40k), can someone enlighten me as to the what,why,when,where etc.

Bloodknight
06-02-2009, 14:55
Kislev is a country east of the Empire, basically WFB's version of Russia. Its troops, especially the Winged Lancers and Gryphon Legion, however, more closely resemble the cavalry units of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth (17th ct).
The army list from 6th edition depends heavily on cavalry, with a quite bad foot unit in support, and is supposed to be combined with the Empire army book, they are an allies supplement (a bit like WH/DH).

The minis have been around for ages, the lancers are from the early nineties, but are still pretty good optically. Top quality stuff.

Laser guided fanatic
06-02-2009, 15:00
Kislev is a country east of the Empire, basically WFB's version of Russia. Its troops, especially the Winged Lancers and Gryphon Legion, however, more closely resemble the cavalry units of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth (17th ct).
The army list from 6th edition depends heavily on cavalry, with a quite bad foot unit in support, and is supposed to be combined with the Empire army book, they are an allies supplement (a bit like WH/DH).

The minis have been around for ages, the lancers are from the early nineties, but are still pretty good optically. Top quality stuff.

So they're good. Because i just thought they were some supplement army to some campaign but then why would such an army have plastic mini's.

OllieC23
06-02-2009, 15:03
Its a human empire located above 'The Empire' and seems to spend most of their time fighting off chaos attempting to invade frther south.

There was quite a moderately sized model range- maybe they have been put in the empire section of the site. Might also be checking out the Aus GW site as its older than the UK site and might not have been updated.

ollie

Pokpoko
06-02-2009, 15:05
they don't have any plastics. i'm also not quite sure on the legality of mixing 7ed Empire with 6ed Kislev...

GodlessM
06-02-2009, 15:07
Yea I don't think they are legal anymore either.

Laser guided fanatic
06-02-2009, 15:09
I just want to make it clear that i dont plan on collecting these guys, i just wanted to know who the hell they were.

BigRob
06-02-2009, 15:58
If you have the kislev booklet it allready contains a few pages of background to the region. As people have said it is "Russia/Eastern Europe" in fantasy, just like the Empire is based of "Central European" influences.

The country is north of the empire next door to the chaos wastes and thus is always under attack. It is home to two very different tribes, the Gospadars and the Ungols. The Gospadars rule because they have the backing of the ice witches while the Ungol worship spirits and have hag witches. The Ungol were there first and resent the invaders.

They both stand together against chaos but get routinely beaten down everytime there is a major incursion. The army was part fo the old Empire book back in 5th and befoe that a selection of units were available as mercenaries.

If you would like to know more grab a copy of "Realm of the Ice Queen" for WFRP. It is one of the better sourcebooks and the only real source of information on Kislev produced by GW.

Griefbringer
06-02-2009, 16:24
The army list from 6th edition depends heavily on cavalry, with a quite bad foot unit in support, and is supposed to be combined with the Empire army book, they are an allies supplement (a bit like WH/DH).


Actually, the army list could be used as allies also for high elves, Bretonnia, dwarves, wood elves and Dogs of War. Though Empire would be the traditionalist choice.



If you would like to know more grab a copy of "Realm of the Ice Queen" for WFRP. It is one of the better sourcebooks and the only real source of information on Kislev produced by GW.

There is also the earlier "Something Rotten in Kislev" WFRP supplement originally published in the 80's (a bit difficult to get nowadays) as well as a few of the BL novels are set there.

Domoto
06-02-2009, 17:05
Well more or less the two big things about kislev, is they A. Use Ice magic....woohoo? and B. They ride bears, now that's just terrifying, even if you kill the rider, you still have too fight the bear

Condottiere
06-02-2009, 17:47
You know how it is, sometimes you get the bear, sometimes the bear gets you.

The Kislev army is basically steppes horse archers, Polish medium cavalry and Russian peasant infantry.

Griefbringer
06-02-2009, 18:01
You know how it is, sometimes you get the bear, sometimes the bear gets you.


Ahem... in Soviet Kislev, the bear rides you. :evilgrin:

Condottiere
06-02-2009, 19:20
I think one of my posts got deleted for a similar remark, once.

Bregalad
06-02-2009, 21:12
Kislev was a short fun-list and separate small release near the end of 6th edition, just to buy GW some time not to do Wood Elves ;)
They were never meant to be a full army, but to accompany Empire armies. Nice range of miniatures, which is officially not available anymore and sought after on ebay. Don't expect a fully playable update or expansion, because it might never happen.

Griefbringer
06-02-2009, 21:28
Kislev was a short fun-list and separate small release near the end of 6th edition, just to buy GW some time not to do Wood Elves ;)

Depends how you define "near the end".

6th edition came out in September 2000, Kislev booklet came out in WD in 2003, 7th edition came out in September 2006.

Somebody knowing the exact issue of WD that had the booklet? I only have the version that was included in the Warhammer Chronicles.

MacVurrich
06-02-2009, 21:38
pdf of any help

http://oz.games-workshop.com/games/warhammer/kislev/default.htm

BigRob
06-02-2009, 22:38
Kislev was a short fun-list and separate small release near the end of 6th edition, just to buy GW some time not to do Wood Elves ;)
They were never meant to be a full army, but to accompany Empire armies. Nice range of miniatures, which is officially not available anymore and sought after on ebay. Don't expect a fully playable update or expansion, because it might never happen.

Actually it was part of the Storm of Chaos thing, a splash release that tied into the campaign and a good reason to pull out the old Chaos models. Using some DOW and OK rules you can actually have a reasonable homebrew list.

Ogre Bulls are bear riders, Regular DOW infantry as the main kislev army, throw in the kislev stuff for flavour and add in cannon and your there. If your opponent is really sporting he will let your wizards use ice magic.

Bregalad
07-02-2009, 01:38
Depends how you define "near the end".

6th edition came out in September 2000, Kislev booklet came out in WD in 2003, 7th edition came out in September 2006.
Near the end means, only Dwarf, Bretonia and Wood Elf army books were left to do, so they desperately invented new stuff like Kislev and Ogre Kingdom so they didn't have to do the Wood Elf army book (also known as the "Wood Elf release is next year" years).:rolleyes:

Gillburg
07-02-2009, 03:36
dispite what people think, kislev is still very legal in 7th edition, there has been no editorial saying they cant be ( like storm of chaos ) and i saw an empire army with 900 pts of winged lancers and kossars last year at a tourny.

i run a kislev contingent and no one has ever refused to play me ( 30 or so opponents )

in my opinion even if gw has gave them the shoulder doesnt mean we should. in my mind they a very legal and competitivly weak. take alot of playing and implementation of fast cav to win a game, no point and click here

Bloodknight
07-02-2009, 03:46
Agreed. I used to have a Kislev contingent (I have a soft spot for underplayed armies) until a few months ago when I sold them off to reduce my DoW army to a more manageable size, ie under 10K ;), and I have not once had anybody refuse a game vs them. Most players who knew the list actually asked me if I didn't want to try the Lore of Ice on my wizards.
Frankly, I never got why that lore isn't part of the main rulebook anyway. Its useful, stylish and if it were there, the special rule of the Ogre Yhetees would make sense sometimes (they're immune to ice magic, which has exactly one legal user in the game: the Tzarina of Kislev who can only be fielded in a 3K+ Kislev army...).

As for people who don't know the Kislev list and may run into a guy with a Kislev contingent: don't refuse... it's not easy to play because although most units are cavalry, they are also medium cavalry, Kislev has no 2+ saves.

Gillburg
07-02-2009, 03:53
the Tzarina of Kislev who can only be fielded in a 3K+ Kislev army


this is not so, i used to think the same thing but if you field a 2k dedicated kislev list you can field her, so some kislev enthusiast once explained:D the contigent rule is totally optional,

this guy used to run ice queen, with lancers and such with his special & rare slots filled out in dow, pikes cannons etc

you can field a competitive full kislev list with a help from the dow pdf

Condottiere
07-02-2009, 08:42
An exclusive Kislev list is kind of monotonous; you'd have to spice it up with RoR.

Neckutter
07-02-2009, 08:59
you could of course, use the "counts as" rule to make it an empire army with kislev looking models throughout your army. i remember back in the 5th ed days the empire book had like 8 type of cavalry. it was annoying. :)

Gillburg
07-02-2009, 09:04
this is true,

a word of warning if your thinking of making a kislev army, look at the prices first, its stupid on ebay, loverly army to see and play with but to expensive money wise.

plus winged lancers cost similer to inner circle knights and are a lot worse not for a game winner

winder
07-02-2009, 10:54
Glad to see that the list is still legal, will definetly have to paint up my 1500 points of kislevites soon and add some DOW to give them a bit of punch i reckon

Liam

Condottiere
07-02-2009, 11:00
There's always the point of whether Winged Lancers' charge causes panic in the Seventh.

BigRob
07-02-2009, 11:01
An exclusive Kislev list is kind of monotonous; you'd have to spice it up with RoR.

Easily done.

Characters: Boyer, Wizard (I'm sure your opponent will let you use ice magic), Paymaster (Kislevite Banner bearer)

Core: Pikemen, Crossbowmen (standing army, hired mercenaries etc), Kossars, Winged Lancers, Horse Archers

Special: Bear Riders (Ogre Bulls- Bull charge becomes bear charge!), Gryphon Legion, Dwarves (Norse Dwarves/Allies from nearby holds)

Rare:Cannon (Kislev have their own guns)

Chuck in a few more ROR and other converted units and your there. I do think they missed a trick not including Streltsi,(Halberdiers with Handguns) they could have used the Empire miniatures to make them, thus selling more Empire Stuff

Condottiere
07-02-2009, 11:05
They could give more options and conversion possibilities to Empire miniatures, but that's another matter.

wingedserpant
07-02-2009, 22:55
Shame the models are out of production.

Pokpoko
07-02-2009, 23:58
to be honest any 28mm renesaince poles and muscovites will do.

ThousandPlateaus
08-02-2009, 00:08
Quick question on this subject: do any of you own the Realm of the Ice Queen WHFRP supplement? Could you tell me if it's 'any good' (as subjective as that is).

Gillburg
08-02-2009, 00:21
some of my army is made out tag minis, scale is just right

http://www.theassaultgroup.co.uk/store/home.php?cat=13

they have some really good cossaks that would fit the ungols and kossars which are usually the most difficult to get

Condottiere
08-02-2009, 00:51
to be honest any 28mm renesaince poles and muscovites will do.I thought that 28mm is too short for GW scale?

Gillburg
08-02-2009, 01:10
I thought that 28mm is too short for GW scale?

this is usually right, but due to thick preslottas they end up the same height. not as wide though i guess but they look fine on the battlefield, ill upload some comparison shots if you like

Condottiere
08-02-2009, 01:19
My real concern was that Perry is supposedly 28mm, and I was wondering about buying a few from them. My suspension of disbelief would be seriously hampered if they didn't scale with the GW figures.

BigRob
08-02-2009, 08:26
Quick question on this subject: do any of you own the Realm of the Ice Queen WHFRP supplement? Could you tell me if it's 'any good' (as subjective as that is).

YES!

It is IMO one of the better "area" sourcebooks because Kislev has never really been done in detail before and they have absoloutly nailed it. Granted it is set after the storm of chaos so the place is a bit torn up but it has large maps of the three main cities, maps of kislev, huge amounts of history, details of culture and the people, in depth stuff about the spirits and hag witches of the Ungols and thier counterparts the ice witches.

Plus all the rules, characters, gubbinz and other stuff you need to run it in WFRP.

long bow
08-02-2009, 08:46
some of my army is made out tag minis, scale is just right

http://www.theassaultgroup.co.uk/store/home.php?cat=13

they have some really good cossaks that would fit the ungols and kossars which are usually the most difficult to get

do you have any photos of your guys the photos on the website make it very hard to make out

Angry Lawyer
08-02-2009, 09:11
I was lucky - as soon as I heard that GW were going to be downsizing their mailorder site, I ordered 2000pts of Kislev.

-Angry Lawyer

long bow
08-02-2009, 09:21
lucky *******

Angry Lawyer
08-02-2009, 09:37
I suddenly realise that I am now sitting on a large pile of money. Shame I wouldn't sell them for the world :P

-Angry Lawyer

long bow
08-02-2009, 09:39
i would pay alot if i wasent broke after a forge world rush for those models. if you ever sell those on ebay and i mean ever PM me

Griefbringer
08-02-2009, 10:47
I thought that 28mm is too short for GW scale?

This really depends - there is no real standardisation of what being nominally called 28mm means, so one manufacturers 28mm can be taller/shorter/bulkier/slimmer than anothers. And sometimes the dimensions of the nominally 28mm models of the same manufacturer can vary between ranges (or even within the same range).

As for determining compatibility with GW, that is not easy either since the GW models are not really consistent in their dimensions either - check various Empire, Bretonnian and Dogs of War models released since 1991 to see it for yourself.

ThousandPlateaus
08-02-2009, 11:35
YES!

It is IMO one of the better "area" sourcebooks because Kislev has never really been done in detail before and they have absoloutly nailed it. Granted it is set after the storm of chaos so the place is a bit torn up but it has large maps of the three main cities, maps of kislev, huge amounts of history, details of culture and the people, in depth stuff about the spirits and hag witches of the Ungols and thier counterparts the ice witches.

Plus all the rules, characters, gubbinz and other stuff you need to run it in WFRP.

Thanks BigRob, sounds exactly what I want.