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Desert Rain
06-02-2009, 22:28
Hello everybody!
I have been playing WHFB for five and a half years now and as I recently met some new guys to play with and want to do something new in the hobby I decided that I might try out WH40k.

I have decided to start playing with Tau and will probably buy my first models in March. I have some questions about the Tau and the game in general and I appreciate all the answers I get:D

1. How different is the game compared to WHFB, rulewise?

2. What should I think of when I'm playing Tau?

3. Are there any Tau unit that are poor and should be avoided?

4. What armies are considered as top-tiers and what armies are in the other end of the spectrum?

All help is appreciated:)

The_Outsider
06-02-2009, 22:36
1. How different is the game compared to WHFB, rulewise?

Movement is less of which direction you move, more of how far you move - not to mention terrain isn't something to be avoided, it is a very integeral part of the game.

Also: CR isn't really focused on in the rules, the game is heavily focused on dealing damage, rather than having your magic banner tip the scales in your favour.


2. What should I think of when I'm playing Tau?

How to maximise your firepower on targets with as much mobility as is sensible.


3. Are there any Tau unit that are poor and should be avoided?

Pass


4. What armies are considered as top-tiers and what armies are in the other end of the spectrum?

All help is appreciated:)

You're asking the wrong question - despite what anyone will say, even the oldest codices can stand toe to toe with the newest ones (though you will notice points discrepencies).

Unlike the trend in fantasy for entire armeis to flatout be better than old ones, 40k has a tendency for specific builds to be powerful, not the entire army itself. That and there can be quite a lot of hard counters in 40k if you look carefully, so even the oldest codices (IG/DE/SW/WH and DH) can counter pretty much anything the latest army can put down, though cost could be an issue.

Doppleskanger
06-02-2009, 22:52
On 3) Vespis aren't that great. Kroot aren't as good as they were. Sniper Drones are good but you'll probably want to use that Heacy slot for something else. The whole Marker light thing could be tricky for a beginner, so stay away from Pathfinders for now. The special Characters aren't that good either, just go for standard choices.
Other than that can't go wrong. lots of Firewarriors in devilfish. Broadsides with shield drones. Lots of crisis suits. Shoot shoot shoot!

tacoo
06-02-2009, 23:04
3. Are there any Tau unit that are poor and should be avoided?
the worst unit the tau have is the etheral. the only time i have seen a etheral be useful is the special one, aun'va, when he does a suicide charge and if your army stands there ground he gives them prefered enemy and something else. Besides him I think the tau have a nice assortment of pratical units that you can always find a use for.

What armies are considered as top-tiers and what armies are in the other end of the spectrum?

Stronges at the moment i guess is a tie between orks or tyranids from what i have heard. weakest I hear alot is eather dark eldar (codex soon i think), or it might be imperial guard at kp, or vp or what ever it is where you get a point for each squad you kill (codex in less then a month).

Dixon
06-02-2009, 23:12
Hello everybody!
I have been playing WHFB for five and a half years now and as I recently met some new guys to play with and want to do something new in the hobby I decided that I might try out WH40k.

I have decided to start playing with Tau and will probably buy my first models in March. I have some questions about the Tau and the game in general and I appreciate all the answers I get:D

1. How different is the game compared to WHFB, rulewise?

2. What should I think of when I'm playing Tau?

3. Are there any Tau unit that are poor and should be avoided?

4. What armies are considered as top-tiers and what armies are in the other end of the spectrum?

All help is appreciated:)

As someone who was in a similiar situation as yourself, moving from WHFB to 40k, I'll give you my insight on these.

1. It'll be easy enough to pick up on, the main things that would be rough to get would be movement, the ap system, weapon types for shooting, and vechiles. Other than that, things shouldn't take too much of an adjustment.

2. Concentration of firepower and learning to use the entire force to work together. Having units doing there own thing and not working together with the rest of the army will make things very painful for you.

3. The only unit that I would stay away from would be vespid. Everything else can be given a good role during the game to help you win.

4. I would have to give a top 3 and bottom 3 (in no particular order)they would be the following, in my opinion.

Top 3
*Chaos Space Marines with 2 Lash of Submissions. They can help dictate their opponents movement, which has become key in 40k. Movement that is.

*Orks. Lots of good cheap assault units. The option to run units and the amount of cover saves help them get to you quickly and with a still a good amount of models to lay the hurt on you.

*After some thinking I'd still have to put Space Marines in here. The new codex may have taken some of their bite but they're still well rounded enough to give just about anyone headaches.

Bottom3
*Pure Grey Knight deamonhunter lists. Low model count and limited anti-tank availability is not a good mix.

*Imperial Guard. Granted this is about to changed with the new codex right around the corner. So I wouldn't put too much stock in this.

*Sadly, I'd have to say the Tau are here to. As a near pure shooting list in a heavy assault game they tend to have an uphill battle in most games.

Ofcourse these are only my choices and I'm sure most people with disagree with me on some level. However, as with fantasy, a good player with a "substandard" list can beat a bad player with a top tier one. So I wouldn't pay too much attention to what armies are supposedly better than others.

Your getting into 40k at a great time. I think 5th ed. is the best yet (I've been playing since 2nd) and it's a nice change from the current WHFB power lists that are coming out from all the new books ie Vamps, C.Deamons, and Dark Elves.

tacoo
06-02-2009, 23:15
iv never even seen a battle of WHFB but i think its funny how i keep hearing dark elves are extremely powerful where there WH40K equivilent race, dark eldar, are from what iv heard one of the weakest.

marv335
06-02-2009, 23:38
whoever said Dark Eldar are weak has obviously never seen them in the hands of someone who knows what they're doing.
A well constructed DE list is certainly not low teir, while maybe not in the top three, absolutely in the top 5 though.

maelstrom66669
06-02-2009, 23:48
1. How different is the game compared to WHFB, rulewise?

2. What should I think of when I'm playing Tau?

3. Are there any Tau unit that are poor and should be avoided?

4. What armies are considered as top-tiers and what armies are in the other end of the spectrum?

All help is appreciated:)

1. I would say 40k is alot simpler, for one thing, I decided to try both out and I never really got the hang of fantasy, the movement alone seemed to make it kind of a drag for me.

2. Running and shooting.

3. I dont know enough about tau to answer that one.

4. Every army has ways of fighting all the others, however some I would avoid are the Sisters of Battle(not nearly as broad selection of models as other armies). Also I would avoid Imperial guard, just because of the sheer cost involved if you go with alot of troops.

ruttman15
07-02-2009, 04:46
1-very different, not as deep. (not a bad thing tho)
2-shoot the **** outta them
3-i dunno
4- it doesnt work like that. while some like Imperial guard, necrons, and dark eldar need new codexes, its wfb that has the imbalance issues. in my opinion of course, but i do think the armies are mor balanced to each other.
except when say, geanstealers face off IG. then the IG get the short end of the stick. then again you can just shoot em.

Cpt Lysander
07-02-2009, 13:19
after losing to tau twice i have one thing to say: Shoot the crap out of your enemy.

quigglebert
07-02-2009, 14:11
On 3) Vespis aren't that great. Kroot aren't as good as they were. Sniper Drones are good but you'll probably want to use that Heacy slot for something else. The whole Marker light thing could be tricky for a beginner, so stay away from Pathfinders for now. The special Characters aren't that good either, just go for standard choices.
Other than that can't go wrong. lots of Firewarriors in devilfish. Broadsides with shield drones. Lots of crisis suits. Shoot shoot shoot!

i beg to differ about your auxillary statment, the vespids are nasty little buggers, catch a SM command squad off guard and you can kill a good chunk of points in one volly, as for kroot you have to use them enmasse to truly benefit, in my current playlist im not above taking 40 of them, in 2 squads you can guarentee that you opponents will fear them or not live to make that mistake, on a good charge you can get 60 attacks against the target unit, not many will be able to withstand that many attacks, against a khornate daemon army i have seen kroot excell as they have managed to do many times their own value in damage, you just have to use cover effectivly. there are no units i myslef avoid, as for good units, kroot, lots of XV8 battlesuits, hammerheads are all excelent additions to a force

tacoo
07-02-2009, 14:32
well does any1 think etherals are good or is it pretty much common ground that the etheral is the tau army.

quigglebert
07-02-2009, 14:39
i myself dont use them, i find they are a bit of a liability but then again the honour guard can be rather scary

tacoo
07-02-2009, 15:00
but instid of getting them for there hounour gurd you can just use 1 marker light and get the same effect for a less points.

Grand Master Raziel
07-02-2009, 15:20
1. How different is the game compared to WHFB, rulewise?

It's more fluid. Basically, all infantry units are like Skirmishers in WHFB. There are more unit upgrades. There are no Heroes per se. You've basically got what you might consider the equivalent to Lord choices (your HQ choices), and then you've got unit champions, but unit champions can generally be upgraded with extra gear like Heroes. Shooting is way more of a factor in 40K than in WHFB (although one can play an all-assault army). Magic (psychic powers in 40K) is much less of a factor - it does not have its own phase, and one can play armies without any psykers without being unduly handicapped.


2. What should I think of when I'm playing Tau?

Mobility, as other players have mentioned, but I'll be kind enough to tell you why: the Tau are not a long-ranged shooting army, they're a short-ranged shooting army. You're not going to do very well trying to sit back and outshoot most opponents. You have to generally get units within a 12" range envelope (rapid fire range, basically) in order to maximize your firepower.

The other reason mobility is important is that you want to be able to have multiple units gang up on single enemy units whenever possible. Most opposing armies are more capable in close combat than Tau, so getting within 12" and doing a little damage to a large number of your opponent's units is not going to serve you well, because (with the exception of your battlesuit units) that will put them within charging range. You need to use mobility to achieve localized supremecy over particular enemy units and completely wipe them off the table, while minimizing your opponent's ability to bog your units down in close combat. I'm sure there's at least one Tau thread over on the Tactica page where you can get better advice on how to accomplish this, but the short version is to mech it up - base your armies around Firewarriors in Devilfish and teams of Crisis and Stealth Suits. Which Heavy Support choice to use will prompt lively debate, but either Broadside Suits or Hammerhead Gunships are considered good choices. For Fast Attack, Pirahnna go with the mech theme and can give you some cheap, expendable units to distract and annoy your opponent with.


3. Are there any Tau unit that are poor and should be avoided?

This usually prompts lively debate as well. I think most Tau players consider the Ethereal to be a bad choice. Personally, if I played Tau, I wouldn't field an Ethereal. However, I would field an extremely fat Kroot Shaper with a distended belly that counted as an Ethereal. :D Vespid are often mentioned as a bad unit. I think Kroot are of questionable value. Their intended purpose seems to be the Tau's counterassault unit, but they're not that good in assault, either. They're really only clearly better than Imperial Guard and Tau Fire Warriors. Tau players are better served by being mobile enough to avoid close combat in the first place, and by accepting the necessity of sacrificing individual units when necessary to preserve the force as a whole.


4. What armies are considered as top-tiers and what armies are in the other end of the spectrum?

Top-tier, I'd say Eldar, Orks, and Chaos. Bottom-tier, Imperial Guard and Daemonhunters. However, there's not so much difference that a good general with a bottom-tier army can't beat a poor general with a top-tier army.

quigglebert
07-02-2009, 16:30
i'd beg to differ about the DH being a bottem tier army, it can beat power gaming marine armies with no problems, it requires a good written list and a bit of tactical flair

Shangrila
07-02-2009, 19:54
1./ Way simpler.
2./Getting fireteams into cover and forming a kill zone by turn 2.once there in cover you markerlight and fire for effect.

3./I play farsight enclave, so i dont use aleins but ide say drones are ALMOST completely useless. however they are able to be used as a 4+coversave for all your firewarriors in the open.(they move behind your FWs in movement you shoot then move back infront of the FWs in assualt.)

4./There are no good and bad armies, ive beaten both orks and marines with lower points of IG and Tau, its a balance between your list, your tatics and the almighty random number generator cubes.

5. The units YOU MUST HAVE is 1 hammerheads and 3 broadsides, i recommend a second Hammerhead but i am only able to use one.everythign else is matter of opinion.

Desert Rain
07-02-2009, 20:54
Thank you very much for all the answers!
I plan to start by buying the battleforce and expand the army from there. The Hammerhead is the coolest tank in the game so I will definetley have one.

Nice to hear that there aren't any OP armies in 40k like DE or Daemons in fantasy.

A couple of more questions

6. Isn't the broadsides and the hammerhead both equiped with railguns? Or are there any difference on how the railgun works depending on where you put it?

7. I really like the Sky Ray, is it a good choice or should I go for broadsides/hammerheads instead?

Brother Loki
07-02-2009, 21:20
6. Railguns are some of the best anti-tank weapons in the game. The broadside's railguns are twin linked so can reroll to hit. The hammerhead's one has the choice of a normal anti-tank shot or a large blast anti infantry shell.

7. The skyray is good in certain roles and certain builds, and with plenty of markerlight support, but the hammerhead is probably one of the best all-round tanks in the game.

One of the best resources for new tau players is http://www.advancedtautactica.com/ but its definitely a forum to lurk on for a while and read lots of the articles in their academy etc (as well as the posting rules). Nearly all newbie questions have already been covered and they're not keen on answering the same things all over again.

Desert Rain
07-02-2009, 22:03
Railguns sounds nice;P So if I want a skyray I should take pathfinders with markerlights?

One more question

8. Are stealthsuits good?

PS. Thanks for the link Brother Loki

Grand Master Raziel
07-02-2009, 22:56
Brother Loki answered 6 as well as needs be answered, so let me address 7 and 8

8: I think the Sky Ray is a decent choice. However, the thing about it is that it tends to be overshadowed by the Hammerhead and Broadside Teams, who basically have the same function (long range anti-tank), but generally do it better. Also, if you really want Seeker Missiles, you can slap them onto any vehicle in your army, and I believe they can launch without affecting the vehicle's ability to shoot. So, I think most Tau players basically don't bother with the Sky Ray and just field Hammerheads

8: I've never seen a Tau army that didn't have at least one unit of Stealth Suits, and they compete with Crisis Suits for Elite slots, so they must be pretty decent.