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Sifal
07-02-2009, 17:49
Firstly, apologies for posting an army list here in this thread rather than 'army lists'.
ok so I have been playing with this VC list for a little bit and want people's opinion on whether it is too cheesey for general gaming group play. It was developed to be capable in tournamnets but still look like a 'proper army' as well.

Lord, level 4 caster, +2 power dice, flayed hauberk (2+ save), helm of commandment, summon ghouls, hellsteed (fly)

vampire, level 2 caster, summon ghouls, talisman of lycni (9" move)

Necromancer, book of arkhan, vanhel's danse macabre

Necromancer, dispel scroll, vanhel's danse macabre
Corpse cart, unholy loadstone

24 zombies, musician and standard
24 zombies, musician and standard
10 ghouls, ghast
6 dire wolves
6 dire wolves
6 black knights, barding, musician, standard
6 black knights, barding, musican, standard
3 Cairn Wraiths
Varghulf

2000 points
12 power dice, 2 bound spells, 7 dispel dice

So what do you think? too strong for friendly play?

madival
07-02-2009, 19:44
As the guy who plays a unit of blood knights in his army with a fighty vamp untill from 750 to 1k points, I dont find this list cheesy at all. Drop the zombies the cairn wraiths the varghulf and 2 black knight units and add ghouls as troops and blood knights instead of black knights, then your in the realm of cheedar for me

Neckutter
07-02-2009, 20:04
how many bloodknights did you bring? zero? then no cheese. i say play ball.

not really strong at all imo. zombies are pretty useless, even though they are great tarpits. if you get it to win you a lot of games, then i say bravo to you. :)

Caine Mangakahia
07-02-2009, 21:00
You need more ghouls since, even though you rely on raising them. A good round of magic or shooting1 models before you get a chance to raise them to sufficient numbers.

Sifal
07-02-2009, 21:39
I appreciate the comments. The ghouls are 20+ by the end of my first turn. I don't let the enemy target the ghouls in the first turn.

@madival - i don't see why in 2000 points blood knights and a combat lord is any more powerful or cheesey when they suffer from frenzy and vamps strongest ability is lots of magic.

This list is very strong on the table, imo zombies are the best rnf unit in the game, they never ever disappoint or fail to do their role, which is a fixed part of my tactics. This army is all about hammer and anvil with strong magic rather than glass canon cavalry.

Neckutter
07-02-2009, 22:01
if you win with them, then that is all that counts.
i personally, love my ghouls and i wont part with them. i love the way my vamp lord stomps around with his 23 grave guard, and has 60-120 ghouls backing him up.
ghoul lord for sure!

Sifal
08-02-2009, 01:29
if you win with them, then that is all that counts.
i personally, love my ghouls and i wont part with them. i love the way my vamp lord stomps around with his 23 grave guard, and has 60-120 ghouls backing him up.
ghoul lord for sure!

I really like the all toughness 4 list, dosen't work for me though (as in doesn't push my fluff buttons). I like the tactical mobility of cavalry with hordes of braindead chuff. I'm a zombie sl*t.

Shamfrit
08-02-2009, 01:41
It's nowhere near cheesey.

My only suggestion would be to shuffle your Lord's configuration slightly, he needs a ward save or the Cadaverous Cuiriass to protect him from Killing Blow...

Well, I say need...it's not crucial, but since he's out in the open for 6 turns he's going to get hit with something...

Sifal
08-02-2009, 01:55
the lord has never once ever come close to dying, the combo of flying and me not putting him in risky situations is enough. He does hide like a girl though and will only see combat if i'm charging him out on the last turn of the game against something that will definately not kill him. he hides out of LOS in scenery or behind units. To avoid flying large targets he backs right up to an rnf unit so even if a bloodthirster or something can see him they can't fit their base in for a charge.
I considered 3+ ward vs shooting but decided if i had the points i'd rather have the sceptre for raising a minimum of 10 zombies with every casting of invocation.

I'm glad no-one thinks it's too cheese for friendly games, just some people have voiced issues with 12 powerdice before.

Arguleon-veq
08-02-2009, 03:47
I would be worried about that Lord is somebody has a decent war machine on a hill.

I think the list is pretty well thought out and balanced, it is a pretty powerful build but not as bad as it gets and not really cheesy. It is clearly meant to win but I dont think it crosses any lines into beardyness [well, as far as Vamp Counts are concerned anyway].

Dropping a unit of Zombies and a unit of Wolves getting another unit of Ghouls[12], adding 2 to the first unit [for 2x6] and getting another Wraith would start it down a beardy route though. So its a fine line.

madival
08-02-2009, 05:00
how many bloodknights did you bring? zero? then no cheese. i say play ball.

not really strong at all imo. zombies are pretty useless, even though they are great tarpits. if you get it to win you a lot of games, then i say bravo to you. :)

5 blood knights with a blood drinker general

Sifal
08-02-2009, 14:48
I would be worried about that Lord is somebody has a decent war machine on a hill.

I think the list is pretty well thought out and balanced, it is a pretty powerful build but not as bad as it gets and not really cheesy. It is clearly meant to win but I dont think it crosses any lines into beardyness [well, as far as Vamp Counts are concerned anyway].

Dropping a unit of Zombies and a unit of Wolves getting another unit of Ghouls[12], adding 2 to the first unit [for 2x6] and getting another Wraith would start it down a beardy route though. So its a fine line.

appreciate those comments. At least dropping a unit of wolves for another wraith is something i'm seriously considering. couldn't have more ghouls than zombies for fluff reasons and personally I would feel uncomfortable starting a game with any fewer models than i am now, big part of my general game plan is to have those units of zombies to hide other stuff vs shooting and magic in the first turn or two.

TheDean04
08-02-2009, 17:51
List looks fairly close to what I use. And zombies are great! My GG failed a charge and in return got charged in the front by knights of the realm and in the flank by a bret lord on hippo, they held (thanks to helm of command, striking first because of dance, and my wight bsb killing 2 knights). Next turn charged the lord with zombies took his last wound off him and dragged the hippo to the ground as it tried to fly away (5d6 str 2 hits can hurt).

Zombies are great I run 2 blocks of 25 and raise many many more during the game.

Sifal
09-02-2009, 11:12
agreed, they never fail to deliver on my low, LOW expectations of them and occasionally they even surprise.